Vertcoin - First Scrypt N | First Stealth Address - Privacy without mixer

[sammy007]

I can be wrong, but it's possible to change diff retarget time. Ain't litecoin did it?

[1715024333]

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[nasone32]

Vertcoin,
An idea to keep hashrate stable during an N-change could be to change the difficulty according to the next N. when N is doubling, difficulty gets halved.
otherwise we need a full retarget every N change (7 days because the hashrate halves with N doubling)

[trogdorjw73]

i'd like to address a possible issue.

looking from this table (results for hd6690 on yacoin)
http://explorer.yacointalk.com/graphs.htm#tech

in november 2015 when vertcoin switches to N=8192 there will be a *huge* drop in hash rate. cpus will continue to mine, while gpu will be useless suddenly.
that will cause confirmation times go to the moon, because hashrate will drop thousands of times suddenly.

ok maybe the new cards like r9 290 will be able to mine until N=16384, but this will only postpone the problem.

start thinking about the kimoto gravity well, it will be necessary even without multipools jumping in....

I think N should be also related to or proportional to the difficulty or something else, but do not adjust it artificially such as by hands or according to the timestamps. Too large N kills every hardware.

6990 and r9 290 have the same size of memory, they will be killed at the same large N=8192.

Well, no the 6990 is 2x2Gb cards in one.r9 290 has double memory per gpu chip.
Vertcoin, sure they increase a bit the memory but not exponentially. And we want everybody to mine, not just those who can afford the new high-end cards, otherwise it's useless, and its the same as having asics...

Maybe a silly question, but when VTC hits N-Factor 8192, why is that a problem for GPUs? The chart indicates a memory requirement of 1MB, compared to 512KB at N=4096. If that's per hashing thread, then at N=4096 a card with 3GB (7950, 7970, etc.) could still run TC=6144 while at N=8192 you would have to drop to TC=3072. You certainly won't get the same performance at lower TC values, but tweaking will almost certainly mean it's not going to be half as fast. Newer versions of cgminer and such will likely also play a role. In other words, there's no magical N-Factor at which GPUs are suddenly unable to perform the hashing calculations. In ten years when we're at N=131072 and using 16MB, a 3GB GPU could still run with TC=192. Then again, ten years ago we were looking at GPUs with a whopping maximum 256MB VRAM, so in ten more years we might be running GPUs with 144GB RAM. :-D

[blacklig]

Vertcoin has a good promise that is to render asic miner useless.
I hope the devs keep on that promise and make it a GPU mineable coin forever.
No to ASIC miner and No to CPU-miner.
Long live GPU mining.

lol,
this coin was firstly designed as CPU only
but I think nobody really minds that it is now GPU mineable..
GPUs are just peoples way as ASICs are in hads of rich early btc adopters and pure cpu coins are controlled by hackers using their botnets on mining.. so GPUs wins and lets hope it stays this way for long time!

[blacklig]

i'd like to address a possible issue.

looking from this table (results for hd6690 on yacoin)
http://explorer.yacointalk.com/graphs.htm#tech

in november 2015 when vertcoin switches to N=8192 there will be a *huge* drop in hash rate. cpus will continue to mine, while gpu will be useless suddenly.
that will cause confirmation times go to the moon, because hashrate will drop thousands of times suddenly.

ok maybe the new cards like r9 290 will be able to mine until N=16384, but this will only postpone the problem.

start thinking about the kimoto gravity well, it will be necessary even without multipools jumping in....

I think N should be also related to or proportional to the difficulty or something else, but do not adjust it artificially such as by hands or according to the timestamps. Too large N kills every hardware.

6990 and r9 290 have the same size of memory, they will be killed at the same large N=8192.

Well, no the 6990 is 2x2Gb cards in one.r9 290 has double memory per gpu chip.
Vertcoin, sure they increase a bit the memory but not exponentially. And we want everybody to mine, not just those who can afford the new high-end cards, otherwise it's useless, and its the same as having asics...

Maybe a silly question, but when VTC hits N-Factor 8192, why is that a problem for GPUs? The chart indicates a memory requirement of 1MB, compared to 512KB at N=4096. If that's per hashing thread, then at N=4096 a card with 3GB (7950, 7970, etc.) could still run TC=6144 while at N=8192 you would have to drop to TC=3072. You certainly won't get the same performance at lower TC values, but tweaking will almost certainly mean it's not going to be half as fast. Newer versions of cgminer and such will likely also play a role. In other words, there's no magical N-Factor at which GPUs are suddenly unable to perform the hashing calculations. In ten years when we're at N=131072 and using 16MB, a 3GB GPU could still run with TC=192. Then again, ten years ago we were looking at GPUs with a whopping maximum 256MB VRAM, so in ten more years we might be running GPUs with 144GB RAM. :-D

you are right.. nice one

[nasone32]

perfect you cleared the point. but this is still a weakness.

so every N-change we must re-tweak the gpus. hope it won't have a big impact on mining operations, people will have to shut down miners to do this, and i don't see such a huge fluctuation as a good thing (chance of 51%, forks etc.)

so maybe people should set the new thread concurrency BEFORE the N-change.

don't get me wrong, i think this is the future, but we must address all the weakness before the coins become too big...

[blacklig]

perfect you cleared the point. but this is still a weakness.

so every N-change we must re-tweak the gpus. hope it won't have a big impact on mining operations, people will have to shut down miners to do this, and i don't see such a huge fluctuation as a good thing (chance of 51%, forks etc.)

so maybe people should set the new thread concurrency BEFORE the N-change.

don't get me wrong, i think this is the future, but we must address all the weakness before the coins become too big...

I dont think this is necessary..
I was mining also MicroCoin, which is Scrypt Jane, not exactly same as this algo, but simillar and even though n factor changed there and hashrate was like 3x lowered during time I was minting it, I never had to tweak it..
I think there wont be this need as well..

[moonbat]

We promote the vertcoin to little! Just so few people know about this great coin. They see the name in the list and think just a other crap coin.. We need to make them clear this is something different! Then we also will get more votes on cryptsy and it will be on a lot sooner!

I'm tweeting and retweeting at Twitter, use the hashtag #Vertcoin

[blacklig]

Wow, look at the buy orders at coined up 
There is like 9 btc demand on price about .0036, highest is buy offer for 2.5 btc at 0.0038.. wow.. investors are buying!! Probably good idea before next diff up

[moonbat]

Everyone keep asking at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291647.0 if you want to trade VTC at Coinex.pw

Just voted thanks for the heads up Boris

[BorisTheSpider]

Everyone keep asking at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=291647.0 if you want to trade VTC at Coinex.pw

Tons going on in vertcoin dev channels behind the scenes guys - we'll have some exciting news for you all soon.

[maxvolts]

About to hit 4, currently at 0.00039999 come on vertcoin!

[Sonora]

We are about to surpass Yacoin in market cap! Difficulty looks like it is going to triple during the next adjustment. This will be an exciting week!!

coinmarketcap.com:

50    Yacoin    $ 401,406    $ 0.027    15,136,923 YAC    $ 850    -1.28 %    
51    Vertcoin    $ 364,191    $ 0.33    1,101,850 VTC    $ 38,754    +44.77 %

[blacklig]

That is so exciting
Even thought diff is going to almost tripple, I bet noone stops minting... I stopped for a while when it changed from 2 to 5, but then by speed of light realised how dumb was it and came back
We all will remember low difs like 12, 24, 50, 100 after few days probably
so be happy with diff 12 or whatever is it going to be, this coin rocks!

[jballs]

About to hit 4, currently at 0.00039999 come on vertcoin!

00045 last.

31BTC sell order at 50 though. Someone must have loaded the boat a few days ago. Great play for them but they really would do better easing off it at 1-2BTC at a time. Nobody likes buying into a wall.


edit- never mind that order is resting at .05 not .005

I'm cool with that.

[jacknb1ack]

I really hope people with high hashrate willing to drop their hashrate till the diff adjusted .... so it won't go too high for small miners like me

[blacklig]

I really hope people with high hashrate willing to drop their hashrate till the diff adjusted .... so it won't go too high for small miners like me

you can bet on it
high hashers are such lovely guys, they always turn it off

[blacklig]

About to hit 4, currently at 0.00039999 come on vertcoin!

00045 last.

31BTC sell order at 50 though. Someone must have loaded the boat a few days ago. Great play for them but they really would do better easing off it at 1-2BTC at a time. Nobody likes buying into a wall.

Lol,
you must be sleepy
That is "sell wall" on 0.005 but price is not even 0.0005 so not really worry about such "wall" because its made only of 6000 VTC
party goes on !

[jacknb1ack]

I really hope people with high hashrate willing to drop their hashrate till the diff adjusted .... so it won't go too high for small miners like me

you can bet on it
high hashers are such lovely guys, they always turn it off

Yeah, i noticed too during previous diff adjustment ... hope this time too ...

btw, anyone else getting trouble connecting to pools ? i got several times switch to backup pool this 12 hrs ...

[uh60james]

I really hope people with high hashrate willing to drop their hashrate till the diff adjusted .... so it won't go too high for small miners like me

It would really be a win win for them, they could go snag up some other coins and as soon as the next diff adjust hits they come back and keep pulling in a lot of coins rather than raising it and pulling in less coins.

Before that happens I need to figure out why my CPU is accepting shares but they don't show up in the pool.