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Author Topic: CASASCIUS PHYSICAL BITCOIN - In Stock Now! (pic)  (Read 119001 times)
molecular
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September 08, 2011, 07:58:11 AM
 #81

Why would you buy this given the current state of the Bitcoin market/economy?
This is physical bitcoin money, not (merely) some investment token.

No. It is NOT money, for if it were, the maker would get his ass tossed in jail.

Ok, I agree. Let me rephrase: "These are physical tokens for access to a virtual commodity". Well, this doesn't sound as exciting as "This is physical money", though Wink

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September 08, 2011, 09:15:02 AM
 #82

PGP-signed list of a portion of addresses I pre-generated for this project (all coins made thus far are within this list).

http://pastebin.com/XebW67V4

Did some checks: 231 of the addresses had 1 BTC sent to them. The other 3589 have nothing sent to them yet.

So I'm assuming you fill them up with BTC just before you send out the coins. Makes sense.

None of the addresses has any money redeemed as of now (block 144449).

Also: one of you buyers are lucky, I sent 0.001 BTC to one of the already used addresses for testing purposes Wink

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September 08, 2011, 09:30:35 AM
 #83

PGP-signed list of a portion of addresses I pre-generated for this project (all coins made thus far are within this list).

http://pastebin.com/XebW67V4

Isn't this just a resource which assists counterfeiters?
Without this list - counterfeiters would need to re-use addresses from a small pool in order for their coins to pass the basic 'public-address shows value in blockchain' test.

What is the motivation for publicly releasing this list?   Are you likely to do this in future?  (I'm hoping not)

Even if you have no intention of maintaining any sort of dupe-public-key tracking/reporting app - someone else might want to, and having a list of *all* released coins might reduce the usefulness of that.  Being able to verify a key by search once you know it is fine - but I don't think they should be listable.


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September 08, 2011, 10:48:30 AM
 #84

PGP-signed list of a portion of addresses I pre-generated for this project (all coins made thus far are within this list).

http://pastebin.com/XebW67V4

Isn't this just a resource which assists counterfeiters?
Without this list - counterfeiters would need to re-use addresses from a small pool in order for their coins to pass the basic 'public-address shows value in blockchain' test.

What is the motivation for publicly releasing this list?   Are you likely to do this in future?  (I'm hoping not)

Even if you have no intention of maintaining any sort of dupe-public-key tracking/reporting app - someone else might want to, and having a list of *all* released coins might reduce the usefulness of that.  Being able to verify a key by search once you know it is fine - but I don't think they should be listable.



I agree with you. This is why I suggested a way to verify the address and the values stored in them using an online method, probably over one of these secure connections (SSL is it?)

I am glad that each hologram is unique for each coin.

The two risks in this, as with any currency, is trust in the issuer and trust in its protection against counterfeiting. When security measures increase/change will there be a plan to ensure owners of earlier coins don't lose out?

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September 08, 2011, 11:02:35 AM
 #85

Isn't this just a resource which assists counterfeiters?
Without this list - counterfeiters would need to re-use addresses from a small pool in order for their coins to pass the basic 'public-address shows value in blockchain' test.

What is the motivation for publicly releasing this list?   Are you likely to do this in future?  (I'm hoping not)

Even if you have no intention of maintaining any sort of dupe-public-key tracking/reporting app - someone else might want to, and having a list of *all* released coins might reduce the usefulness of that.  Being able to verify a key by search once you know it is fine - but I don't think they should be listable.


The list is so people can match the 8-character substrings to the full bitcoin address.  It is also incomplete, I have plenty of addresses NOT on the list.

The list would be pretty easy for someone else to come up with from the block chain.  The loading coins transactions are quite characteristic and would be easy to search for or spot - they don't look like typical transactions - they're made with the rarely used "sendmany" RPC call and already stand out for that reason alone.  It is no different with BitBills.  It is fairly easy to find the addresses of other Bitbills.  Here is a transaction that loads 90+ BitBills.  http://blockexplorer.com/tx/661c4f738aab05dc57030814dec5b581793967c5a21b845c4ed9ef3dbf3030a3 , if I were more nimble at mass-searching the block chain with a script, I wouldn't be surprised if I could come up with a nearly accurate list of all circulating BitBills.  Here's another, http://blockexplorer.com/tx/c262797f2d7c790db63a4e5ce4b4bb2a511de2c0e1516dd6d7b6b6f0c749f5ea

While the concerns are valid from an information-theoretical perspective, I am really not concerned about counterfeiting in a practical sense.  For one, Casascius bitcoins are never going to get to the point of ubiquity because I already know that I am only going to have the time and patience to produce so many, and by then, I expect someone else will have outdone me both in quality and price.  And who's going to pass them, and how?  It's a limited audience, a small community.  USD counterfeiting is commonplace yet the odds of me selling something on Craigslist and being offered counterfeit USD as payment, even in a large city or community, is very low... the odds of getting fake Casascius physical bitcoins has got to be an order of magnitude lower.

If the most I plan to create is a few hundred or a few thousand, that's just not worthwhile for a counterfeiter to even bother.  By making them, I really just want to tell the world that this is possible, that bitcoins don't have to be purely digital, and that they should copy me.  Here you have me in the rare position of begging for competition, sort of the same odd way I promoted mining months ago when common sense would say that I should help keep the difficulty as low as possible.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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September 08, 2011, 12:04:46 PM
 #86

Here is one other thing to consider as a benefit to having published that list.  I PGP signed it with my real identity.  If I somehow start burning people en masse (e.g. kept private keys, and screwed you all later), and you guys have a PGP signed message from me clearly identifying the addresses I've promised are legitimate, you'd have a solid trail of evidence that would ensure I could be held liable for any fraud along with an exact accounting of how many coins I supposedly stole.  I'm pretty easy to find - my real name and address are not a secret (try googling Casascius), and I'm not exactly insolvent either.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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September 08, 2011, 12:11:29 PM
 #87

PGP-signed list of a portion of addresses I pre-generated for this project (all coins made thus far are within this list).

http://pastebin.com/XebW67V4

Did some checks: 231 of the addresses had 1 BTC sent to them. The other 3589 have nothing sent to them yet.

So I'm assuming you fill them up with BTC just before you send out the coins. Makes sense.

None of the addresses has any money redeemed as of now (block 144449).

Also: one of you buyers are lucky, I sent 0.001 BTC to one of the already used addresses for testing purposes Wink

which address?  it might be me!
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September 08, 2011, 12:12:25 PM
 #88

By making them, I really just want to tell the world that this is possible, that bitcoins don't have to be purely digital, and that they should copy me.  Here you have me in the rare position of begging for competition, sort of the same odd way I promoted mining months ago when common sense would say that I should help keep the difficulty as low as possible.

But you're doing such an awesome job. I don't know what potential competition could do better. Also 0.20 BTC per coin seems reasonable. I predict you're not going to get serious competition any time soon.

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September 08, 2011, 12:14:35 PM
 #89

Also: one of you buyers are lucky, I sent 0.001 BTC to one of the already used addresses for testing purposes Wink
which address?  it might be me!

Lol, go check your addresses, I'm not telling.

Maybe I should make it more Wink

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September 08, 2011, 12:20:29 PM
 #90

Isn't this just a resource which assists counterfeiters?
Without this list - counterfeiters would need to re-use addresses from a small pool in order for their coins to pass the basic 'public-address shows value in blockchain' test.

What is the motivation for publicly releasing this list?   Are you likely to do this in future?  (I'm hoping not)

Even if you have no intention of maintaining any sort of dupe-public-key tracking/reporting app - someone else might want to, and having a list of *all* released coins might reduce the usefulness of that.  Being able to verify a key by search once you know it is fine - but I don't think they should be listable.


The list is so people can match the 8-character substrings to the full bitcoin address.  It is also incomplete, I have plenty of addresses NOT on the list.


but you yourself said the 8 char can be searched from Block Explorer for verification of 1 BTC. 

why maintain an incomplete list?  shouldn't it be all or none?  preferably none?
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September 08, 2011, 12:24:17 PM
 #91

By making them, I really just want to tell the world that this is possible, that bitcoins don't have to be purely digital, and that they should copy me.  Here you have me in the rare position of begging for competition, sort of the same odd way I promoted mining months ago when common sense would say that I should help keep the difficulty as low as possible.

But you're doing such an awesome job. I don't know what potential competition could do better. Also 0.20 BTC per coin seems reasonable. I predict you're not going to get serious competition any time soon.

well, you already have RSantana in the bitcoin coin biz.  given his comments i bet its crossed his mind to counterfeit Casascius. Grin
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September 08, 2011, 12:54:43 PM
 #92

but you yourself said the 8 char can be searched from Block Explorer for verification of 1 BTC. 

why maintain an incomplete list?  shouldn't it be all or none?  preferably none?

It's only incomplete to the extent I only published from the beginning of the list.  The whole project is sorted alphanumerically by bitcoin address - this makes sure I don't have a tough time matching the private key to the correct pre-printed hologram.  (I, of course, did not send private keys to the hologram printer).  I simply published all the bitcoin addresses that begin with two digits (11* thru 19*).  If I published them all, the pastebin would be huge and full of addresses that won't be used anytime soon.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
casascius
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September 08, 2011, 12:55:31 PM
 #93

well, you already have RSantana in the bitcoin coin biz.  given his comments i bet its crossed his mind to counterfeit Casascius. Grin

I'd be overwhelmingly flattered to see that happen.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
casascius
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September 08, 2011, 12:59:17 PM
 #94

Also: one of you buyers are lucky, I sent 0.001 BTC to one of the already used addresses for testing purposes Wink
which address?  it might be me!

Lol, go check your addresses, I'm not telling.

Maybe I should make it more Wink

I ruin about 1 in 10 of the stickers, so they may have gone to nobody.  I asked for the strongest adhesive and the most tamper proof hologram and that's exactly what I got.  At least 1 in 10 times, I ruin the sticker just peeling it off the original backing, exposing the "honeycomb" tamper-evident grid, as the tamper evident pattern is literally hair-trigger sensitive.  There is absolutely NO FREAKING WAY anyone is going to get those stickers off without making the honeycombs visible, and if I have to throw away a sticker, the address is thrown away too.  So, at least 1 in 10 chance you may have sent 0.001 BTC to the bees.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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September 08, 2011, 01:04:09 PM
 #95

Also: one of you buyers are lucky, I sent 0.001 BTC to one of the already used addresses for testing purposes Wink
which address?  it might be me!

Lol, go check your addresses, I'm not telling.

Maybe I should make it more Wink

Not me Sad I checked. Maybe I need to order some more Wink

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September 08, 2011, 02:01:40 PM
 #96

Also: one of you buyers are lucky, I sent 0.001 BTC to one of the already used addresses for testing purposes Wink
which address?  it might be me!

Lol, go check your addresses, I'm not telling.

Maybe I should make it more Wink

I ruin about 1 in 10 of the stickers, so they may have gone to nobody.  I asked for the strongest adhesive and the most tamper proof hologram and that's exactly what I got.  At least 1 in 10 times, I ruin the sticker just peeling it off the original backing, exposing the "honeycomb" tamper-evident grid, as the tamper evident pattern is literally hair-trigger sensitive.  There is absolutely NO FREAKING WAY anyone is going to get those stickers off without making the honeycombs visible, and if I have to throw away a sticker, the address is thrown away too.  So, at least 1 in 10 chance you may have sent 0.001 BTC to the bees.

Do I understand this correctly in that 10% of your bitcoins go into the netherworld? Please say Imisunderstood you, lol.

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September 08, 2011, 02:28:10 PM
 #97

Also: one of you buyers are lucky, I sent 0.001 BTC to one of the already used addresses for testing purposes Wink
which address?  it might be me!

Lol, go check your addresses, I'm not telling.

Maybe I should make it more Wink

I ruin about 1 in 10 of the stickers, so they may have gone to nobody.  I asked for the strongest adhesive and the most tamper proof hologram and that's exactly what I got.  At least 1 in 10 times, I ruin the sticker just peeling it off the original backing, exposing the "honeycomb" tamper-evident grid, as the tamper evident pattern is literally hair-trigger sensitive.  There is absolutely NO FREAKING WAY anyone is going to get those stickers off without making the honeycombs visible, and if I have to throw away a sticker, the address is thrown away too.  So, at least 1 in 10 chance you may have sent 0.001 BTC to the bees.

I made sure I used an address that already had 1 BTC on it. That saves me from that problem, right?

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September 08, 2011, 02:56:24 PM
 #98

Do I understand this correctly in that 10% of your bitcoins go into the netherworld? Please say Imisunderstood you, lol.

Nope, I don't put the BTC on until a later step in the process.  10% of the labels end up in the trash or on test coins though, but it's no big deal because the main cost for holograms is in producing the master, the labels themselves are relatively inexpensive.

I am using the test coins to test different substances that may serve to make the label side of the coin more durable.  I've also considered throwing in a torn open "test coin" into orders as a freebie just so people can own a torn-open one and see the insides without having to tear any of theirs open.

I made sure I used an address that already had 1 BTC on it. That saves me from that problem, right?

Indeed.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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September 08, 2011, 03:50:23 PM
 #99

well, you already have RSantana in the bitcoin coin biz.  given his comments i bet its crossed his mind to counterfeit Casascius. Grin

I'd be overwhelmingly flattered to see that happen.

While I admit my mind does deviate from pure moral thought sometimes, I have no intention of counterfeiting. I went down this road when I was coming up with my coin. I wanted to create a successful product. I couldn't think of way to do that while minimizing the risk of counterfeiting.

If someone has a VERY easy way of detecting counterfeit coins then I'd be anxious to give it a try. The problem is that most methods of detecting counterfeit coins involve something that is too burdensome. It has to be as easy as a visual inspection or maybe like they do it now with paper dollars (writing on a dollar bill with a special marker).

Check out the first physical bitcoin at http://CoinedBits.com
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September 08, 2011, 04:00:12 PM
 #100

well, you already have RSantana in the bitcoin coin biz.  given his comments i bet its crossed his mind to counterfeit Casascius. Grin

I'd be overwhelmingly flattered to see that happen.

While I admit my mind does deviate from pure moral thought sometimes, I have no intention of counterfeiting. I went down this road when I was coming up with my coin. I wanted to create a successful product. I couldn't think of way to do that while minimizing the risk of counterfeiting.

If someone has a VERY easy way of detecting counterfeit coins then I'd be anxious to give it a try. The problem is that most methods of detecting counterfeit coins involve something that is too burdensome. It has to be as easy as a visual inspection or maybe like they do it now with paper dollars (writing on a dollar bill with a special marker).

Hi RSantana:  as a loyal customer of yours, i certainly didn't mean to imply that you WOULD do it; just that its clearly crossed your mind Wink  In fact someone like you who feels it would be an easy task needs to be involved in these types of processes to help design a counterfeit proof product.
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