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Author Topic: CASASCIUS PHYSICAL BITCOIN - In Stock Now! (pic)  (Read 118860 times)
newguy05
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January 16, 2014, 06:30:35 PM
 #981


I am 100% against selling 1 btc coin with seals without actually have the listed btc in them (that's actually committing fraud)

Fraud, really?


if he sells coins with "1 Bitcoin" on them and an intact seal when in fact it doesnt actually have any btc in them, it is fraud. But from my understanding mike is changing the design and removing the numbers, then no it's not fraud.

Not to beat a deadhorse, i just think that will make casascius worthless, like those play coins that get sold for a few bucks.
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htspringer
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January 16, 2014, 08:46:04 PM
 #982

BTC X or X BIT, as in, a given amount?

Also, if and when they are traded/exchanged, a Casascius 'X coin' could easily become known and easily recognisable as the standard for self-funded coins.
The very idea of a non-denominated coin seems hoakey to me.
If the actual value has to be constantly verified on the internet, you've lost the purpose of a physical bitcoin.
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January 16, 2014, 11:34:24 PM
 #983

Regarding the potential for face to face sales I'd like those who are interested to contact me and let me know what they'd be interested in and what kind of deal.

(And, I ask, in a tongue in cheek manner, that I not be required to respond immediately)

I am still trying to figure what kind of interest there is, and what kind of logistics I'll need, and what steps I'll need to take in order to ensure I'm not creating personal security risks for myself or buyers.  It's difficult, because it doesn't take very many funded coins to make a routine of transacting them in person very dangerous.  Switching to unfunded coins wipes all of that out, and after deliberation, it's quite possible I may just offer only that.

Would this be for the sale of your remaining stock, or are you thinking about continuing to offer new funded coin designs? Being a fan of the genre I'd definintely consider taking a vacation to Utah, taking in the sights, and buying 1-2 Casascius coins, especially if new funded versions come out. I don't think I'd want a roll of 20 or anything, don't need FinCEN strip-searching me at the airport...
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January 17, 2014, 05:37:17 AM
 #984

Value parameters

1- Denomination
2- Rarity
3- Metal scrap value
4- BTC scrap value
5- Utility , as a hardware wallet

New versions will lose simple denomination, but the hardware wallet value could be enhanced.
 
a) Durability, I see other products able to survive high temperatures with codes built into the metal.
b) A public address QR code to make balance checking easy.
c) A signed QR code balance sticker generated by Casascius, to place on the new coins later.
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January 17, 2014, 01:55:16 PM
 #985

Value parameters

1- Denomination
2- Rarity
3- Metal scrap value
4- BTC scrap value
5- Utility , as a hardware wallet

New versions will lose simple denomination, but the hardware wallet value could be enhanced.
 
a) Durability, I see other products able to survive high temperatures with codes built into the metal.
b) A public address QR code to make balance checking easy.
c) A signed QR code balance sticker generated by Casascius, to place on the new coins later.

I believe the reason that the codes aren't etched into the metal is because common medical imaging equipment could read the code without removing the holo.

Regarding point c, can you elaborate? If you're suggesting a second public/private key holo that the purchaser could apply after the fact, I don't think that would ever be something that'd be offered.

No longer buying/selling Casascius coins. Beware scammers.
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January 17, 2014, 03:30:48 PM
 #986

...
c) A signed QR code balance sticker generated by Casascius, to place on the new coins later.

I believe the reason that the codes aren't etched into the metal is because common medical imaging equipment could read the code without removing the holo.

Regarding point c, can you elaborate? If you're suggesting a second public/private key holo that the purchaser could apply after the fact, I don't think that would ever be something that'd be offered.

Re. Durable marking, this might be difficult or impossible; but some sort of temperature stable , subtle marking of the metal would improve the value.

For C, I'm imagining a separate code, not for the keys, but indicating the balance as verified on a date. It might make sense to store these in a coin holder with a pocket, to document the coin's history offline.
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January 17, 2014, 07:23:20 PM
 #987

Value parameters

1- Denomination
2- Rarity
3- Metal scrap value
4- BTC scrap value
5- Utility , as a hardware wallet

New versions will lose simple denomination, but the hardware wallet value could be enhanced.
 
a) Durability, I see other products able to survive high temperatures with codes built into the metal.
b) A public address QR code to make balance checking easy.
c) A signed QR code balance sticker generated by Casascius, to place on the new coins later.

I believe the reason that the codes aren't etched into the metal is because common medical imaging equipment could read the code without removing the holo.

Regarding point c, can you elaborate? If you're suggesting a second public/private key holo that the purchaser could apply after the fact, I don't think that would ever be something that'd be offered.
I doubt that any available medical imaging equipment is sensitive enough to pick up an etched engraving.  In the first place, x-rays are very low resolution.  CT and MRI don't work with metal objects because of extensive scattering and noise.
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January 17, 2014, 08:02:29 PM
 #988

I believe the reason that the codes aren't etched into the metal is because common medical imaging equipment could read the code without removing the holo.
I doubt that any available medical imaging equipment is sensitive enough to pick up an etched engraving.  In the first place, x-rays are very low resolution.  CT and MRI don't work with metal objects because of extensive scattering and noise.

When you engrave characters to metal, this changes the metal's shape, making the characters clearly readable with pretty much any sort of reflective radiation.  The tamper proof case may look great but what if tampering is unnecessary because any physician can take it to work and see through the case with medical imaging gear?  An engraved secret in a metal coin is also going to be vulnerable to magnetic imaging techniques.

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htspringer
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January 17, 2014, 08:20:40 PM
 #989

I believe the reason that the codes aren't etched into the metal is because common medical imaging equipment could read the code without removing the holo.
I doubt that any available medical imaging equipment is sensitive enough to pick up an etched engraving.  In the first place, x-rays are very low resolution.  CT and MRI don't work with metal objects because of extensive scattering and noise.

When you engrave characters to metal, this changes the metal's shape, making the characters clearly readable with pretty much any sort of reflective radiation.  The tamper proof case may look great but what if tampering is unnecessary because any physician can take it to work and see through the case with medical imaging gear?  An engraved secret in a metal coin is also going to be vulnerable to magnetic imaging techniques.
Yes, the metal's shape is changed...but the imaging equipment is not nearly sensitive enough to pick up etched characters on a coin... we're talking perhaps two thousandths of an inch in depth.  Medical imaging equipment could determine the difference between a 50 cent piece and a silver dollar, because of size.  It could not differentiate between a Canadian quarter vs a US quarter, let alone etching on a coin's surface... not even close.  Furthermore, MRI and CT cannot accurately image metallic objects because of extensive noise and scattering. 
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January 17, 2014, 10:54:49 PM
 #990

Yes, the metal's shape is changed...but the imaging equipment is not nearly sensitive enough to pick up etched characters on a coin... we're talking perhaps two thousandths of an inch in depth.  Medical imaging equipment could determine the difference between a 50 cent piece and a silver dollar, because of size.  It could not differentiate between a Canadian quarter vs a US quarter, let alone etching on a coin's surface... not even close.  Furthermore, MRI and CT cannot accurately image metallic objects because of extensive noise and scattering. 

Interesting to know, thanks.

No longer buying/selling Casascius coins. Beware scammers.
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Mike Caldwell
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January 17, 2014, 11:20:32 PM
 #991

The real concern isn't whether any particular kind of medical equipment can read the characters, it's whether or not they can be read at all with any equipment an attacker could have access to.

I'm not concerned that any particular kind of coins are attackable, as I assume they all are, somehow.  Rather, I object to anyone's claims that they've achieved perfect physical security.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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January 18, 2014, 01:19:23 AM
 #992

The real concern isn't whether any particular kind of medical equipment can read the characters, it's whether or not they can be read at all with any equipment an attacker could have access to.

I'm not concerned that any particular kind of coins are attackable, as I assume they all are, somehow.  Rather, I object to anyone's claims that they've achieved perfect physical security.
Yes, I agree that nothing is bullet-proof.
All I'm saying is that the contention that etched letters on a metallic coin are readable by imaging equipment of any kind is simply not true... at least to my knowledge. 
Even  the most high resolution 3D scanners that pan the surface of an object directly with a laser are incapable of that kind of resolution.
If NASA or some other government entity has such imaging equipment to which you refer, I can guarantee that it would be enormously expensive to get a reading through an intact hologram... Certainly far more expensive than the coin would be worth. 
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January 18, 2014, 07:42:27 AM
 #993


I am 100% against selling 1 btc coin with seals without actually have the listed btc in them (that's actually committing fraud)

Fraud, really?


if he sells coins with "1 Bitcoin" on them and an intact seal when in fact it doesnt actually have any btc in them, it is fraud. But from my understanding mike is changing the design and removing the numbers, then no it's not fraud.

Not to beat a deadhorse, i just think that will make casascius worthless, like those play coins that get sold for a few bucks.

I'm not certain owhat country's definition of fraud you are basing that assessment on, but here in the USA, I believe there are 5 elements that need to be met to be considered fraud. One of which states, "to be fraudulent, a false statement must be made with intent to deceive the victim. It seems like a simple description smashes the intent to deceive argument.

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February 08, 2014, 04:00:29 AM
 #994

Mike, I'd love to see Casascius coins with just the phrase "Bitcoin" on the front without quotes or reference to a denomination.  Nobody would be duped by a coin that doesn't have any reference to a bitcoin value on it.  I'd love to see these (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246650.0) with the 1 removed!  Looking forward to my chance to buy them.  I always drool with jealousy at the news reports!

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February 08, 2014, 04:21:14 AM
 #995

I also think "Self-Funded", "Privately Funded", or "Bitcoin Wallet" is a good idea for the hologram.  I understand not wanting to encourage people to put limitless money in a Casascius coin (BIP 38 or otherwise), but, as has been pointed out, there's nothing to stop that situation from happening with the existing coins.  Besides, at the current exchange rate it's increasingly unlikely privately funded coins will exceed the value encoded on some of those bearer bars from a couple years ago!

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February 09, 2014, 02:00:07 PM
 #996

Quite honestly I don't even understand the FINCEN claims. How is Mike a money transmitter if no USD ("real money") is touched?

I don't know what FINCEN's specific claims are, but he is literally a money transmitter. Someone sends him bitcoins ("convertible virtual currency") and he mails bitcoins to someone. I doubt they are concerned about him selling single small denomination coins, but he does sell large denominations (100 BTC bar) and coins in bulk (rolls of 20 or 50 BTC) that are worth multiples of $10,000.
That's just ridiculous, isn't it? Why would anybody who wants to transmit some bitcoins from point A to point B choose such a cumbersome method (buy overpriced physical token and have it snail-mailed somewhere, that's like printing out an email and faxing it to someone who OCRs it) when the virtual bitcoins can be sent to any address via the blockchain for a low transaction cost. Let alone the fact that the bitcoins aren't even on the coins during the shipping process. They're sent to the coins addresses via the blockchain afterwards, specifically to avoid customs trouble.
I think the only difference here is that they have a guy to pin this down on. Otherwise it would mean that any blockchain transaction constitutes money transmitting.

Bitcoins sent through the block chain are traceable, while bitcoins sent through Mike are not. Furthermore, transactions using his coins are as anonymous as cash, so they probably want to know who is buying his coins.

To avoid having to register with each state independently (and the additional due diligence/regulation that a small company often can't support) what would a "KYC Service" or "Provider" do to Mike's situation?

If FinCEN's goal in this scenario is a honest straight forward attempt to enforce Know Your Customer, what if a larger exchange or service provider type organization could take on that responsibility?  Coinbase for example, already registered in all 50 states, providing apparently adequate KYC and due diligence.    If they stepped in as a "KYC Provider" could my transaction, from CB verified account/wallet, sent directly to Cassascius, not be accompanied by an email with my registered shipping address and proof of identity?

Unfortunately this borders on adding a middleman, potential fees for said service ect.  I do think it would allow a number of smaller niche companies to operate by passing most of the KYC responsibility onto someone else.   I wouldn't mind seeing a well made browser wallet offer this.

I doubt a wallet or service like this would be necessary in most situations, but I do see occasions when both buyer and seller would benefit.

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March 01, 2014, 09:43:35 PM
 #997

Hey all,

Just a quick question. Has anyone had any of the 1, 0.5 or 0.1 Silver coins graded? If so, what sort of gradings are you getting?
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March 01, 2014, 10:46:20 PM
 #998

Hey all,

Just a quick question. Has anyone had any of the 1, 0.5 or 0.1 Silver coins graded? If so, what sort of gradings are you getting?

I submitted some this week.  Will let you know in about 3 weeks.  I would imagine ms67+

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March 01, 2014, 11:35:51 PM
 #999

If you don't mind that'd be great. Might submit mine, but want to see what grades are likley to come back first.

Cheers
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March 02, 2014, 06:17:20 AM
 #1000

any ideas what the 0.1 coins are going for? seems to be very little trading going on

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