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Author Topic: CASASCIUS PHYSICAL BITCOIN - In Stock Now! (pic)  (Read 118840 times)
ErebusBat
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October 19, 2012, 09:23:46 PM
 #441

I love my BTC1 coin...I keep it in my wallet and I've shown everyone for months. At a quiz bowl tournament I volunteered it for a toin coss...they were confused  Wink Saving my bitcoins to purchase the silver BTC10.
I keep a blank one in my pocket for flipping.  Makes a nice *ting* noise.

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November 04, 2012, 03:51:16 AM
 #442

From another thread, thought I'ld cc: post here.

The British Museum is hosting an exhibition on the history of money around the world (http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/galleries/themes/room_68_money.aspx).

I came across this little gem there:


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November 04, 2012, 09:37:47 AM
 #443

From another thread, thought I'ld cc: post here.

The British Museum is hosting an exhibition on the history of money around the world (http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/galleries/themes/room_68_money.aspx).

I came across this little gem there:



seriously?!? This is fucking great!

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November 04, 2012, 11:39:44 AM
 #444

nice

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November 04, 2012, 12:54:39 PM
 #445

It also shows up in their online collection database search. It has some photos and details recorded. This is one result page,

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/search_the_collection_database/search_object_details.aspx?objectid=3451279&partid=1&searchText=bitcoin&fromADBC=ad&toADBC=ad&numpages=10&orig=%2fresearch%2fsearch_the_collection_database.aspx&currentPage=1

and the collection search page,

http://www.britishmuseum.org/collection

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November 04, 2012, 02:58:52 PM
 #446

Excellent! I visited their history of money through the ages exhibition, which btw is permanent & not just a temporary exhibition though it evolves as they add stuff & I noticed the lack of any Bitcoin reference or samples whilst visiting London last August & having just bought some Casascius coins from molecular & others had thought to donate some to that department - I didn't get around to it that visit but it's much better to have come from Casascius himself in any case, it would be nice if they had the full range of Cas coins issued, if I am able to afford a 1 Oz gold 1,000 btc one day then I would be happy to loan it if insured to them & if a sufficiently tamper proof container could be made to house it inside their already secure display cabinets so that no staff/researchers could peel the hologram.

Edit: Cool that one can see the addresses of the 4 donated to them on the large BM inventory pics, I will send them a few Satoshis or coins to 1NyVMo79Vanhbu92MpPQgCbu9MDV5a4NhW when next drinking & feeling flush.

FirstBits: 1P5mrivM for 1P5mrivMGaLoXiMjJmN56sBsyANEYiw3mE   <--- has been peeled to redeem & show the private key (edit)
FirstBits: 1NyQJk2W for 1NyQJk2Wh1YVnp6pxpBux4W35TFyd4Avpj
FirstBits: 1NyVMo79 for 1NyVMo79Vanhbu92MpPQgCbu9MDV5a4NhW   <--- visible on their display
FirstBits: 1Caqfyjn is in a different style which seems harder to make it out but finally got it for 1Caqfyjn3KigaSPFdcYrjJqjpYZoXvxCPz

The one shown on display is 1NyVMo79, they have big barrels for fiat donations around the place but may also like the idea of accepting bitcoins too sent to their sample for all to see & could put up a QR code to scan for this maybe if ppl requested it & even perhaps a tablet or something to display it's blockchain balance.

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November 04, 2012, 05:49:36 PM
 #447

Ordered my first 2 casascius bitcoins. Can't wait to receive them!

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November 04, 2012, 08:19:08 PM
 #448


Awesome. They are asking for additional info on the object, so I sent them the following email:

Quote from: email from molec to british museum
TO: collectiondatabase@thebritishmuseum.ac.uk
SUBJECT: Feedback on object record (CJE305673)

Dear British Museum,

I am very happy you own a Casascius Physical Bitcoin (your collection ID: CJE305673) and currently display it to the public.

I have additional information regarding the coin:

 * The hologram is printed with a so-called firstbits address: 1P5mrivM
 * The public Address of this coin (it is functionally a so-called "offline bitcoin wallet") is: 1P5mrivMGaLoXiMjJmN56sBsyANEYiw3mE
 * The current balance of the coin can be seen here: http://blockchain.info/address/1P5mrivMGaLoXiMjJmN56sBsyANEYiw3mE
 * The coin has received 2 transactions of amount BTC 0.01234567 each on November 4th 2012.
 * The balance as of November 4th 2012 is: BTC 1.02469134

I would be happy if you could add this information (or parts of it) to your database.

thanks again,
molecular


EDIT: what the crap?!? The coin was redeemed (way back in 2011 or earlier). I didn't notice this ;|

I guess Mike gave them a coin that had the hologram peeled off. One can even see that in the pic: http://www.britishmuseum.org/collectionimages/AN01156/AN01156701_001_l.jpg

I misinformed them. I sent them another e-mail correcting my info.

It seems Mike (or whoever has the private key) is running a bot of some sort that passes on any bitcoins sent to the invalidated coin?


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November 04, 2012, 08:38:56 PM
 #449

It has been a while to remember for certain, but I could see myself likely having sent them a peeled specimen, knowing they'd be unlikely to want to destroy a coin themselves just to see what was inside.

In such a case, I'd have deliberately funded the coin and then removed the funds myself.

Knowing the date, I'd have done it from MtGox, the only decent option available at the time, which remembers private keys and sweeps new incoming balances.  So I probably have 0.01234567 or whatever in my MtGox account now (or whatever the date of that transaction was).

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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November 04, 2012, 08:39:07 PM
 #450

Edit: Cool that one can see the addresses of the 4 donated to them on the large BM inventory pics, I will send them a few Satoshis or coins to 1NyVMo79Vanhbu92MpPQgCbu9MDV5a4NhW when next drinking & feeling flush.

FirstBits: 1P5mrivM for 1P5mrivMGaLoXiMjJmN56sBsyANEYiw3mE <- REDEEMED
FirstBits: 1NyQJk2W for 1NyQJk2Wh1YVnp6pxpBux4W35TFyd4Avpj
FirstBits: 1NyVMo79 for 1NyVMo79Vanhbu92MpPQgCbu9MDV5a4NhW   <--- visible on their display
FirstBits: 1Caqfyjn is in a different style which seems harder to make it out but finally got it for 1Caqfyjn3KigaSPFdcYrjJqjpYZoXvxCPz

good choice to send to 1NyVMo79. Stupid me sent to the coin that had been redeemed already (see my previous post).

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November 04, 2012, 08:40:39 PM
 #451

It has been a while to remember for certain, but I could see myself likely having sent them a peeled specimen, knowing they'd be unlikely to want to destroy a specimen themselves just to see what was inside.

In such a case, I'd have deliberately funded the coin and then removed the funds myself.

Knowing the date, I'd have done it from MtGox, the only decent option available at the time, which remembers private keys and sweeps new incoming balances.  So I probably have 0.01234567 or whatever in my MtGox account now (or whatever the date of that transaction was).

that explains it. also: you have 2 x 0.01234567, because I accidentally sent twice Wink. I'm really making too many mistakes today and should not touch my wallet any more for now Wink.

EDIT: Mike, consider that money a donation, please.

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November 04, 2012, 09:17:02 PM
 #452

Edit: Cool that one can see the addresses of the 4 donated to them on the large BM inventory pics, I will send them a few Satoshis or coins to 1NyVMo79Vanhbu92MpPQgCbu9MDV5a4NhW when next drinking & feeling flush.

FirstBits: 1P5mrivM for 1P5mrivMGaLoXiMjJmN56sBsyANEYiw3mE <- REDEEMED
FirstBits: 1NyQJk2W for 1NyQJk2Wh1YVnp6pxpBux4W35TFyd4Avpj
FirstBits: 1NyVMo79 for 1NyVMo79Vanhbu92MpPQgCbu9MDV5a4NhW   <--- visible on their display
FirstBits: 1Caqfyjn is in a different style which seems harder to make it out but finally got it for 1Caqfyjn3KigaSPFdcYrjJqjpYZoXvxCPz

good choice to send to 1NyVMo79. Stupid me sent to the coin that had been redeemed already (see my previous post).


Just sent their display coin a 1 btc + Satoshis donation, I know of no other items that they display where this can be done so easily & openly - I would encourage more donations to this address:

https://blockchain.info/tx/ea89dc6b9cb9b7417d58a92fa6c2c329864fbda1ceafe893872ff687b4304ee6

https://blockchain.info/address/1NyVMo79Vanhbu92MpPQgCbu9MDV5a4NhW

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November 04, 2012, 09:25:21 PM
 #453

I would recommend NOT sending donations to the coin.  This would be giving them reasons to take the coin down.  Likewise, I would recommend leaving them alone!

It is very nice that they chose to display this coin.  Please don't make them regret it.  They are likely doing so as part of an exhibit on the history of money, not because they want to use their good name to endorse Bitcoin.  If their choice to display it comes with a paparazzi, or a perceived legal or accounting burden (the same way if I mailed a coin to the EFF and put the address in a forum post that said "look everybody donate to the EFF through this coin") or they start to feel like they're being made into a billboard, the only thing that could do is motivate them to take it down.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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November 04, 2012, 09:37:21 PM
 #454

I would recommend NOT sending donations to the coin.  This would be giving them reasons to take the coin down.  Likewise, I would recommend leaving them alone!

It is very nice that they chose to display this coin.  Please don't make them regret it.  They are likely doing so as part of an exhibit on the history of money, not because they want to use their good name to endorse Bitcoin.  If their choice to display it comes with a paparazzi, or a perceived legal or accounting burden (the same way if I mailed a coin to the EFF and put the address in a forum post that said "look everybody donate to the EFF through this coin") or they start to feel like they're being made into a billboard, the only thing that could do is motivate them to take it down.

Well it's an exhibition on the evolution of money & it's them who have posted the public address on their own collection website so if ppl wish to send to it then they will, that is part of the experiment of this new tech, I've dealt with them a lot in the past on various issues like authentication & commissioning photos of their objects & they are most cool, I can only see them being amused & intrigued by the purported value of their exhibit increasing, they won't open it to cash out anyway so treat it as fun & good PR, they also won't pull it from the exhibit as if they did that would give way more publicity & just make them look petty/silly - which they certainly are not.

But you are right in that any coins sent to it aren't a donation to them as such, they won't redeem them, but more of just adding value to the item that they have which I can't see them having any problem with, in countries like Thailand when images of the Buddha etc were being cast ppl who wished to add their input to the statue or object would throw gold jewellery/coins & silver in to the vat of molten bronze more as a symbolic act than otherwise though also a genuine sacrifice from them but when sufficient did so this can be seen in the final object to great effect & to me this is a version of that & something that they will be more than capable of appreciating.

It is in this sense that I sent coins to an address they showed as being that of one of their of their first bitcoin acquisitions/exhibits, I doubt that it will trouble them.

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November 04, 2012, 10:13:03 PM
 #455

I would recommend NOT sending donations to the coin.  This would be giving them reasons to take the coin down.  Likewise, I would recommend leaving them alone!

It is very nice that they chose to display this coin.  Please don't make them regret it.  They are likely doing so as part of an exhibit on the history of money, not because they want to use their good name to endorse Bitcoin.  If their choice to display it comes with a paparazzi, or a perceived legal or accounting burden (the same way if I mailed a coin to the EFF and put the address in a forum post that said "look everybody donate to the EFF through this coin") or they start to feel like they're being made into a billboard, the only thing that could do is motivate them to take it down.

I think they should even put a little live-display below the coin showing the balance in real-time.

They put it on display and bitcoin is something refreshingly new amongst all these old silver coins. Why hide that fact?

This coin is alive!

I don't really share your concerns. The value of other stuff in their collection probably changes over time, too. I honor the fact that you donated the coins to them and will follow your recommendation and not send any MORE donation than I already sent and I will not pester them with more emails. After all, you made this happen and I don't want to risk spoiling it.



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November 04, 2012, 10:27:27 PM
 #456

Hi,

after having spent a sleepless night reading this complete thread, and more about physical bitcoins, I would give some feedback and suggestions for improvement, in some short statements:

1.) Great idea to make bitcoins "physical" the way casascius does it - it helps spreading the word to the world, showing bitcoins to friends and making them curious, making gifts to nieces and nephews etc. Considering the fact that 100s of 1000s of years of evolution of home sapiens sapiens has created a brains that is still a lot more attached to tangible things than abstract things.

1.b) Interesting to realize that in FIAT money world as well as in gold-backed money, digital money is (supposed to be) backed by physical money (note that the electronic demand deposits in your banks are no official legal tender - only physical coins and bills are), whereas in bitcoin world it is the other way round - the physical casascius coins (and alike) are backed by a digital "commodity".

2) Some improvement proposals for casascius.com web site:

2.a) Include a register with photos of front and back side of each kind of coin (1, 5, 10, 25 btc , etc.) that is for sale or that is in circulation, possibly also of different versions like v1, v2, etc. (it certainly does not have to be as sophisticated as "http://www.muenzkatalog-online.de"  Wink )
I have seen much better photos on the forum than on the casascius website.

2.b) Include photos of an original hologram as opposed to an opened hologram (with the visible honeycomb structure) - I have seen one such a photo in the forum and it was quite meaningful to me.

2.c) Include full information of weight, size (diameter and thickness) and material(s) of each coin. I can only see information in the linked page "http://casascius.appspot.com/", but this seems to be not entirely correct and also not complete, e.g. it states that 1 BTC and 5 BTC coins are both 0.24 ounces which appears to be in contradiction to the fact that 1 btc coins are thinner than 5 btc coins, as I read somewhere in this forum. (Side note from the "metric world": Non-US customers like myself are completely unused to "inch" units. Ok, I know 1 inch=2.54 cm, but stating cm or mm sizes in addition would be much more intuitive and straightforward for people like myself. Similar for "ounce" unit (confusion even increases since a troy ounce (gold/silver) is not the same as a normal weight ounce (lemonade can...) afaik... We only use gramm as weight units in daily life, nothing else ["(troy) ounces" are only used for precious metals]).

2.c) I also propose to add some useful information (FAQ page or so) to the interested reader about some technical details of these physical bitcoins. I am thinking especially about readers like myself that know the basics of the (digital) bitcoin system and how it works, but have some difficulties first to understand how this is "mapped" to the physical world. These informations/FAQs including:
  • Why is not the complete btc address printed on the key, explain that it can always be identified uniquely from theses 8 characters even if later another BTC address will be created that starts with the very same 8 characters --> "firstbits" concept explanation, and  link to blockchain.info and blockexplorer.com as well...
  • How to redeem the short private key (22 or 30 characters) (minikey) codes digitally (which online wallets, which bitcoin clients support it), and how to convert the short private key code to the "full" long code that can e.g. be understood by most clients including the bitcoin.org client --> link to own conversion tool, zip-file or so
  • Recommendations for physical handling of casascius coins: E.g. don't carry around "version 1" coins with you every day since the public key printed on it may get washed away after some time, and do not carry btc coin together with other coins too much since this may damage the hologram
  • information about the (expected, even if not formally guaranteed) durability of the ink of the private key
  • what's the difference between v1 and v2 coins --> durability/resistance of public key ink (printed from outside/inside of the hologram in v1/v2), and 22 vs. 30 characters short private keys (minikeys), typo of casa(s)cius in v1 holograms, plus ohter noteable differences that I am not aware off now...
  • Explain the basics of the 2-factor keys. The fundamentals can be explained in few words within this FAQ that will help the interested reader to understand what this is all about. The basic info (I was not aware of this myself before my last "sleepless night" by the way) to be conveyed to the reader/potential customer is that if we have two public and private key pairs [pub1,priv1], [pub2,priv2], then a 3rd keypair "[pub3,priv3]" can be generated from this by known and open algorithms as follows: priv3=function(priv1, priv2), and pub3=function(pub1, pub2). Hence, both casascius and his customer know pub3, but only the customer (once he opens the hologram carrying "priv2") can get hold of priv3 to spend the coin, because "priv1" is not and was never known by casascius at any time.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Finally, here are some more long-term ideas about how to make counterfeiting casascius coins even more difficult:
Basically, there are two kinds of counterfeiting methods I could think of with today's physical bitcoins (the third possibility, which is that the coin manufacturer might not be trustworthy with the treatment (and the destruction) of the private keys, is omitted here, because this is an inherent danger that cannot be ruled out conceptionally):

a) A counterfeiter produces own look-alikes of casascious coins, with own (new) keys, but he is silently keeping the private keys.
--> Solution: casascius to publish a list of all released casascius coins's btc addresses (already available today!) - hence, coins with different addresses must be counterfeits. Any user could check if a suspicious physical coin is this type of counterfeit if he/she has an online connection.

b) A counterfeiter produces own look-alikes of casascious coins, with original public key addresses printed on them acc. to above list.
--> Currently no solution available, just the hope that imitating the coins, and even more the casascius holograms, would be burdensome. At present no incentive for this counterfeiting method exist, but would change if casascius coins started getting used widely for offline transactions in economical life instead of EUR/USD/GPB/... coins.

Long-term solution for counterfeiting attack "b)" (no patent pending, I herewith release it to public domain and make it "prior art" for any future patent Wink ): Each casascius coin includes a unique RFID chip that, if excited by an input signal, will emit a signal that is a digital signature of the input signal. It is signed by two keys "pi" and "pc" (=private key "individual" and "common"): The unique private key "pi" of THIS physical coin, and the general private key "pc" of the coin minter (=casascus), which is e.g. casascius' commonly known unique "primary" btc address.
Hence, if I have a suitable RFID reader device (hopefully will be included in all smartphones in some years from now) I can check, even offline with no internet connection, if the public key printed outside this physical coin matches the "internal life" ("pi") of this coin, thus eliminating the counterfeiting method b). Moreover, because the RFID's emitted signal is also signed with the minter's generic private key "pc", I can also exclude a type "a)" kind of counterfeit, even if offline!

Note: If the smartphone with the RFID reader is online, it can also load the location of the scanned coin to a "casascius geo coin tracking database" (voluntarily of course), which would help to get hold of a new counterfeiter acting acc. to method c) described below.

To summarize: In this way, above kinds of counterfeiting of physical bitcoins would become impossible, and the people do not even need internet access to check if it is a counterfeit or a genuine casascius coin. What remains is that one has to trust the minter (=casascius), and now one has to trust in addition the RFID manufacturer that they do not secretly make duplicates.

The only drawback of this method is of course that we need an infrastructure of offline RFID readers widely built into smartphones first, and we would have much higher production costs because each sinlgle physical coin must contain a unique RFID chip.

A CHEAPER VARIANT:
Probably production is much cheaper if the RFID chip only contains "pc", but not "pi". This means that the SAME RFID chip can be used inside each casascius physical coin. Actually this would already be sufficient to avoid both counterfeit methods "a)" and "b)", because the counterfeiter is not in possession of private key "pc".

However, now (i.e. with RFID keys [pc] or [pi, pc] inside the coin) another "small-scale" counterfeiting methods would be still possible:

c) [small-scale counterfeit attack] The counterfeiter gets a proper casascius coin, opens the hologram and gets hold of the private key. Now he is in possession of the RFID chip and can use it to make an own counterfeit (or more easily, he re-uses this coin and just replaces the hologram with a good counterfeit hologram), and spends the physical coins somewhere. After that he redeems the face value with the private key that he has captured, i.e. he has spent the face value twice.

This counterfeit method can be applied with the cheap [pc] and with the expensive [pi, pc] RFID variants.
However, the possibilities of counterfeiting would be limited, because the counterfeiter cannot go in large-scale production of counterfeit coins. Instead, he can only counterfeit as many coins as he has physically received before, and his net gain would be no more than the face value of these coins minus his work efforts. So this attack will probably not be worth the effort for a counterfeiter and remain theoretical.

Why the expensive variant [pi, pc] would still be better than the cheap one [pc]? Because of the following attack "d)", which works better for the cheap variant and would in fact enable the attacker to perform large-scale counterfeits:

d)  The counterfeiter gets hold of any arbitrary casascius coin and re-engineers the private key "pc" (or "pc" and "pi") iniside the RFID using high-tech microscopes etc. Once he has done so, he can go into large-scale production of counterfeits just the way he did before RFID protetion was introduced, simply, because he is now in possession of the private key "pc" (and "pi"). For the cheap RFID protection ("pc" only) he could counterfeit any coin that is in circulation today acc. to the public list if coins in circulation. For the expensive RFID case [pi, pc] he could only counterfeit (=clone) this particular coin with this particular BTC address, which would put much tighter limits as to the scales (number of items) to be produced, so it is less likely to be worthwhile.


In any case, to fully rule out these counterfeiting methods, the best would be if it were possible to construct the coin mechanically (or chemically) in a way that the RFID gets destroyed as soon as the hologram is removed to redeem the face value digitally.

So far my thoughts about possible future RFID-based counterfeiting protection mechanisms.

Otoh
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November 04, 2012, 10:54:40 PM
 #457

Yep, very needed imo, ideal would be if www.casascius.com had this on their home page as the most prominent landing info, then links to buy coins etc on other pages, someone is given a coin as a gift/tip etc they see the URL on the coin & visit where it's geared to show them super easy how to set up a blockchain.info wallet or cash out/trade/hold with Mt. Gox Etc. ATM one lands on the order page which I think should be a level under a complete newbies how to use, save or redeem coins landing page so one can give/gift them with no additional info needed.

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November 04, 2012, 11:01:17 PM
 #458


  • How to redeem the short private key (22 or 30 characters) (minikey) codes digitally (which online wallets, which bitcoin clients support it), and how to convert the short private key code to the "full" long code that can e.g. be understood by most clients including the bitcoin.org client --> link to own conversion tool, zip-file or so


I want to hand out the one bitcoin rounds for Christmas as a "matrix" type thing.
This is currently my biggest problem in putting the gift together;

 explaining how to get them into a wallet (blockchain.info (red pill))
or
 explaining how to trade them for fiat (import and sell on gox then bitinstant to paypal (blue pill))

I wish a good "dummies guide to" existed. I am considering outsourcing / tipping someone to create a nice post with step by step screenshots explaining this.
Then I could hand someone one of the rounds, the bumper sticker, and a double sided card with a QR code / url (blue one side, red the other) to a step by step action plan.
 (this is the idea I am trying to materialize for stocking stuffers)

TLDR; need a nice page to send clueless noobs to once I give them a coin.

Really nice idea, the "M.a.t.r.i.x" thing... !
... do you want to continue your life as you did before? --> exchange it into USD/EUR - blue pill
... or do you want to explore a new world? --> ... it will not be easy, but you'll see the truth ... - red pill

In either case, you'll need a good how-to-page indeed to make sure the BTC will not disappear in the black hole in the center of our galaxy forever.

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November 04, 2012, 11:29:39 PM
 #459

An idea about how to make physical (casascius) bitcoins more attractive than digital bitcoins:

The "minter" (or anyone else...) introduces some sort of "lottery" or monthly draw: e.g. every month a certain number of BTCs are transferred to a random public address out of the publicly available list of physical coins out there. (The random algorithm could be made public to prove unbiased randomness.)

...or something like that...

(+) --> increase motivation for accepting physical bitcoins ("if I am lucky, I get more than just the face value")
(-) --> maybe the incentive for hoarding (instead of spending) bitcoins would become even greater, which might be counter-productive if we want the coins to circulate, since it would be the opposite of the demurrage (=negative interest) used for floating money acc. to Silvio Gesell? Well, probably not. If the effect was really this strong, the physical BTCs would just be traded at a certain premium above the face value - the market would tell.

In the end, such physical bitcoin would be like a 10-Dollar bill to which an small lottery ticket is constantly attached. If you pass the 10 USD, the lottery ticket is automatically passed with it.

After all, just an idea and interesting thought experiment. To what level above face value would the market price converge? Would the market price over- or undercompensate the average monthly "lottery" payouts? ...

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November 04, 2012, 11:44:35 PM
 #460

+1 like a marriage of www.bitlotto.com & Casascius coins - I think that it would work really well but best for a sub set of Casascius coins only not all of them so it's opt in, ie as some businesses/religions/ppl don't like to gamble but wouldn't have any problem with regular crypto coins.

Node40.com is a leader in DASH hosting, dedicated exclusively to fully managed masternode hosting. Professional, organized, and responsive. I have many dozens of nodes with them.    
BTC = $c²     BTC = 1otohotohMoQoxHuxLBveQiZcV3Pji3Tc      DASH, Digital Cash = www.dash.org   
   CHARITY | MY REP | DICE
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