[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[georgem]

Maybe there are other priorities than to pay an official cartoonist. Don't get me wrong your work is awesome, but I prefer for example to put some money in the animated video project or a dev fund.

Becoming the official cartoonist is not at all what I desire.
And creating an animated video doesn't conflict with my project, those are separate things.

Look at it as an appeal to large DRK holders of the community or foundation.
If some people are not happy with my proposal then it is strange to tell me that I should ask for donations, because that's what I already do, lol.

So I'll continue doing what I am doing anyway, as good and often as my dayjob allows, but my proposal is out there!  

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[tungfa]

So I was thinking about starting a cartoon to celebrate evan's achievements:



A proposal:
Is the community/foundation willing to pay me a monthly amount of DRK (I don't know, 150 DRK or something) so I can allocate some time every day and create a daily cartoon?
I could create hilarious confrontations between darkcoin and other coins, etc...  
Let me know your thoughts.

Donations: XtAdMy5nSxArut6rKKLQXxm84rpJNipXib

great cartoon
but man
150 DRK a month from the foundation !!!
hahaaa sorry I have to laught !
remember everybody is working for free here !
we love cartoons but do you really think they will put you on a monthly salary to keep the spirit up !?
think about it ....>>>

150 DRK / 30 days of atleast 2 hours = 2.5 DRK per hour.
I don't know in which country you live, but in my place that's basically considered "slave labor".

Listen, I am not forcing anybody, and I specifically said: it's a proposal to the community or foundation.
I never received any DRK from the foundation, but I have come to know the darkcoin community as very generous over the last months.

Remember everybody is working for free here !

Untrue. Speak for yourself.
Some people here already offer services for DRK. I am no different.

Relax Relax my friend.

- Nobody ever received any payments from the Foundation as they have NOT launched yet !
- People are offering services (MN Services, MN Pooling, MN Setup) and they are getting paid,
but a lot of the community work (programmers, developers, PR, New Buiseness Devs,....) are not getting paid
(incl myself) .... and me personally i do NOT expect to as well !
I am doing my work here as a community free effort/ i am NOT expecting anything, and i am having a blast doing it !

Speaking of slave labour ... it all depends where you are !
When i look across the boarder to china, you can get a full day labour for 1-2 DRK a day !
(i am NOT supporting that, just saying....)

I think you should rephrase you offer to : Donations !
but i am just talking here .... do not get pissed at me,
am just trying to help out !
 

[georgem]

Relax Relax my friend.

- Nobody ever received any payments from the Foundation as they have NOT launched yet !
- People are offering services (MN Services, MN Pooling, MN Setup) and they are getting paid,
but a lot of the community work (programmers, developers, PR, New Buiseness Devs,....) are not getting paid
(incl myself) .... and me personally i do NOT expect to as well !
I am doing my work here as a community free effort/ i am NOT expecting anything, and i am having a blast doing it !

Speaking of slave labour ... it all depends where you are !
When i look across the boarder to china, you can get a full day labour for 1-2 DRK a day !
(i am NOT supporting that, just saying....)

I think you should rephrase you offer to : Donations !
but i am just talking here .... do not get pissed at me,
am just trying to help out !
 

You are not helping.
Why should I rephrase my offer?
Everybody knows that I accept donations, that's how it worked for months now.

If some people here (not you specifically) want to see a large amount of daily cartoons coming to the community,
and are willing to pay for it, they now know my very reasonable proposal.

Meanwhile I will continue doing what I do.  
Why shouldn't I? It is fun, helps Darkcoin and some people even donate.

[Ignition75]

hello guys,
im a big drk fan nice to be here im a newbie so dont judge me please i understand numbers more the the actual coin so please be patiant
thank you

Welcome MA, nobody will judge you, we were all n00bs once...

[toknormal]

Proud XCP bagholder here (I'm an original burner, in fact). The Counterparty developers have an amazing track record, and it's clear their platform is just getting warmed up. The Ethereum devs, well, it's too soon to tell but Q1 2015 is proving to be a long time to wait in crypto land.  First mover advantage is the rule (although by that rule, Mastercoin should have done better).
XCP may be the only truly deflationary currency out there, so I think it would be good to pick up a few coins just in case it takes off.

Congratulations on your early horse - beautifully backed. That is an incredible return.

Thinking of the future though, the thing about what Vitalic said - it rang lots of bells with me.

It's also the reason why I like DRK - it is a dedicated solution, like Apple. They make the hardware, they make the software. Square pegs in round holes can work (SQL was a command language that got rammed down the throats of programmers by Microsoft who somehow got away with selling it as a  "programming language", Windows was a clunky GUI that converted mouse movements into DOS commands) but they are never very elegant.

Counterparty seem to have taken 2 technologies that have absolutely nothing to do with each other and decided to weld them together. When you do that what you usually end up with is the lowest common denominator -  a totally crap result that is less than the sum of its parts. Another thing that's weird is - why did they wait till now to introduce the Etherium thing ? Was that an afterthought?

I'm not trying to "FUD" you or anything - that rise is literally off the charts - but the recipe doesn't exactly sound promising to me from the point of buying into an all time high. Look at the amount of work its taken 100% proprietary projects like Darkcoin or NxT to even get established with their core technical objectives, and thats when they have control over everything. What then when you neither have any control over the blockchain architecture nor the intelligent stuff that's riding on top of it ?

[Ignition75]

So every coin will have his own character...
For example, bitcoin will be slow and fat, but veeeeeery big...  

etc...

I hope you have something special in mind for fiat too.          

Oh yes, and FBI, CIA, IRS and all those criminals too....  
After some time, when I have found my style (or it has found me rather) and when I am able to create the cartoon efficiently,
I could implement recent events into the cartoon (think mt.gox, karpeles, mintpal, lawsky/govt related stuff, etc...)

What about a mini series showing the rise and rise of Darkcoin?

[RenegadeMan]

I got my last payment 3 hours ago, seems to be normal.

Almost 1200 masternodes now, it will take on average more than 2 days to get one payment.

ahhhh
you propably right !
so before the next % rise comes it will be like that as it does not pay out 0.7 DRK but wait 2 days and then sends 1.4 DRK correct !

I think it's working just fine.

These are my last 10 payments:

2014-10-24 02:14:17   1.4206
2014-10-25 18:55:37   1.75
2014-10-27 12:26:31   1.510125
2014-10-29 03:16:39   2
2014-10-30 21:08:32   1.25075
2014-11-01 16:07:41   1.75
2014-11-04 13:49:37   1.5
2014-11-06 06:46:17   2
2014-11-08 03:04:02   1.75475
2014-11-10 02:17:46   1.25
2014-11-12 02:03:30   1.25025

As you can see they're mostly just under 2 days apart, with one there (2014-11-04) running a bit late and being closer to 3 days.

[Kai Proctor]

Relax Relax my friend.

- Nobody ever received any payments from the Foundation as they have NOT launched yet !
- People are offering services (MN Services, MN Pooling, MN Setup) and they are getting paid,
but a lot of the community work (programmers, developers, PR, New Buiseness Devs,....) are not getting paid
(incl myself) .... and me personally i do NOT expect to as well !
I am doing my work here as a community free effort/ i am NOT expecting anything, and i am having a blast doing it !

Speaking of slave labour ... it all depends where you are !
When i look across the boarder to china, you can get a full day labour for 1-2 DRK a day !
(i am NOT supporting that, just saying....)

I think you should rephrase you offer to : Donations !
but i am just talking here .... do not get pissed at me,
am just trying to help out !
 

You are not helping.
Why should I rephrase my offer?
Everybody knows that I accept donations, that's how it worked for months now.

If some people here (not you specifically) want to see a large amount of daily cartoons coming to the community,
and are willing to pay for it, they now know my very reasonable proposal.

Meanwhile I will continue doing what I do.  
Why shouldn't I? It is fun, helps Darkcoin and some people even donate.

IMO It's the words you use, like "slave labor" nobody here forced you to do anything. There are a lot of communities (crypto and non crypto) where people are doing that for free, just for fun. However, the way you said it "sounded" like you were entitled to some remuneration.

[georgem]

IMO It's the words you use, like "slave labor" nobody here forced you to do anything. There are a lot of communities (crypto and non crypto) where people are doing that for free, just for fun. However, the way you said it "sounded" like you were entitled to some remuneration.

I just made a proposal.
It's tungfa who laughed at my proposal by saying "remember everybody is working for free here !"...   which I find hilarious, because not only have I done tons of stuff for free before (not expecting anything) but my proposal was deliberately VERY down to earth. I deliberately did it so as to NOT provoke the exact reaction I got out of some people here. But it still happened. That's truly hilarious to me.
I am not pissed or anything, it's just a little unexpected.

Let me just say this: I can make any proposals or offers I like, it's none of anybodies business to tell me that I rather shouldn't be doing that.

Because that doesn't make any sense to me.

EDIT: And about the "slave labor", you got that wrong. I would happily create daily cartoons if someone accepts my offer, even if some people might consider that slave labor.
That's how I meant it and said it, so don't take that out of context.

[Ignition75]

DRK Team Tips - Crowd Funding

Over the last few months I've realised how much hard work goes into development and testing by the Dark team and prominent members of the community.  In many cases, lots of personal time and financial resources are contributed to testing and infrastructure of this project.

I'm running a crowd funding exercise for 1 week, as follows:

8th November 2014 - 15th November 2014


DRK Donation Address: Xcd1fuEWooU8QAHDQnpnapqkF9ri8KopNj


At the end of the week, I will be sending the funds to Fernando (Darkcoin Foundation Member) to distribute amongst the team and the community.

So if you would like to show your appreciation for the fantastic work that's being done within the Darkcoin project, please send our unsung heroes a beer or two, I'll get the ball rolling with 25 DRK.

Thanks in advance and feel free to bump this often  

Just a few more days to go, we are at 132 DRK, lets all dig deep and buy our team a few beers 

[Dark Jester]

I just made a proposal.
It's tungfa who laughed at my proposal by saying "remember everybody is working for free here !"...   which I find hilarious, because not only have I done tons of stuff for free before (not expecting anything) but my proposal was deliberately VERY down to earth. I deliberately did it so as to NOT provoke the exact reaction I got out of some people here. But it still happened. That's truly hilarious to me.
I am not pissed or anything, it's just a little unexpected.

Let me just say this: I can make any proposals or offers I like, it's none of anybodies business to tell me that I rather shouldn't be doing that.

Because that doesn't make any sense to me.

Kai made a good point, it's all in the wording. Of course you are free to make any proposals you like, but by the same token others are also free to comment on those proposals. I wasn't saying you couldn't or shouldn't make the proposal. I was just saying that most of the dev community does the work they do for free already, so asking a salary from people who aren't getting paid themselves isn't likely to go anywhere.

[georgem]

Kai made a good point, it's all in the wording. Of course you are free to make any proposals you like, but by the same token others are also free to comment on those proposals. I wasn't saying you couldn't or shouldn't make the proposal. I was just saying that most of the dev community does the work they do for free already, so asking a salary from people who aren't getting paid themselves isn't likely to go anywhere.

But that's what I don't understand, why do you see the need to tell me that this "isn't likely to go anywhere"?
What do you win by saying that?
To my ears that's like noise.

I for one see a lot of potential and business opportunity in the crypto world.

Anyway, I value everyone's input. 

[Dark Jester]

But that's what I don't understand, why do you see the need to tell me that this "isn't likely to go anywhere"?
What do you win by saying that?
To my ears that's like noise.

I for one see a lot of potential and business opportunity in the crypto world.

I agree, there is a lot of potential. I'm not even saying your work isn't or wouldn't be worth what you're asking. 150 DRK per month for a daily animated cartoon like that is cool. And you're free to ask if anyone is interested in that arrangement. The comments are just observations on the situation. When the potential 'bosses' you are asking a salary from are all doing volunteer work themselves, it's like asking a homeless man if he has any spare change so you can buy a coffee.

[georgem]

But that's what I don't understand, why do you see the need to tell me that this "isn't likely to go anywhere"?
What do you win by saying that?
To my ears that's like noise.

I for one see a lot of potential and business opportunity in the crypto world.

I agree, there is a lot of potential. I'm not even saying your work isn't or wouldn't be worth what you're asking. 150 DRK per month for a daily animated cartoon like that is cool. And you're free to ask if anyone is interested in that arrangement. The comments are just observations on the situation. When the potential 'bosses' you are asking a salary from are all doing volunteer work themselves, it's like asking a homeless man if he has any spare change so you can buy a coffee.

I see my fellow Darkcoiners as savvy investors with computerskills etc... those aren't exactly hobos.
(Though I remember camosoul saying that he once was homeless BEFORE he entered the cryptoworld. Hope he keeps himself above water these days... )

So you think we are all just bums, hm?  
(I am pulling your leg, ofcourse)

[baddw]

Proud XCP bagholder here (I'm an original burner, in fact). The Counterparty developers have an amazing track record, and it's clear their platform is just getting warmed up. The Ethereum devs, well, it's too soon to tell but Q1 2015 is proving to be a long time to wait in crypto land.  First mover advantage is the rule (although by that rule, Mastercoin should have done better).
XCP may be the only truly deflationary currency out there, so I think it would be good to pick up a few coins just in case it takes off.

Congratulations on your early horse - beautifully backed. That is an incredible return.

Thinking of the future though, the thing about what Vitalic said - it rang lots of bells with me.

It's also the reason why I like DRK - it is a dedicated solution, like Apple. They make the hardware, they make the software. Square pegs in round holes can work (SQL was a command language that got rammed down the throats of programmers by Microsoft who somehow got away with selling it as a  "programming language", Windows was a clunky GUI that converted mouse movements into DOS commands) but they are never very elegant.

Counterparty seem to have taken 2 technologies that have absolutely nothing to do with each other and decided to weld them together. When you do that what you usually end up with is the lowest common denominator -  a totally crap result that is less than the sum of its parts. Another thing that's weird is - why did they wait till now to introduce the Etherium thing ? Was that an afterthought?

I'm not trying to "FUD" you or anything - that rise is literally off the charts - but the recipe doesn't exactly sound promising to me from the point of buying into an all time high. Look at the amount of work its taken 100% proprietary projects like Darkcoin or NxT to even get established with their core technical objectives, and thats when they have control over everything. What then when you neither have any control over the blockchain architecture nor the intelligent stuff that's riding on top of it ?

Because that's what so much open-source software is about.  There is a book called "The Unix Philosophy", since revised to be called "The Linux Philosophy".  It is all about keeping things atomic - having a piece of software do one thing, and do that thing really well, and allow it to connect to other things. 

It is kind of like the concept of a pipe ("|" character) in the command line.  You can have one program run, and send the results to another program, and send those results to another program -- all of those programs run completely separately, but by having well-defined interfaces, they can be connected together in myriad ways to create even more powerful "programs" out of the smaller ones.

Or take the Web.  It is based on a series of protocols, each independent of each other but building on the one below it.  You have HTML, which rides on top of HTTP, which rides on top of TCP/IP, which rides on top of mostly Ethernet-based hardware.  Each of those layers enables the ones above it to work properly.  If somebody were to come up with the Web and try to implement it from scratch from the top down, it would never have gotten built in this way; but it might not have ever gotten built at all.  Instead, somebody came up with the hardware, then somebody came up with TCP/IP, then somebody came up with HTTP, then somebody came up with HTML.  (And then somebody came up with JavaScript...)

It's a way of not re-inventing the wheel.  "NIH" (Not Invented Here) Syndrome is a horrible thing in the tech world.  Programmers are very arrogant and would rather build their own thing from scratch than re-use somebody else's perfectly workable code and get a jump start.  So they end up taking 5 years to create their own from-the-ground-up software instead of 2 years to create something on somebody else's platform.

Why re-invent the blockchain and the mining process (a la NXT, BitShares, Ethereum, Ripple, etc.) when you can just ride on top of the most secure blockchain in existence?  Why go to all that work?  Yes, you give up some control.  But, you can work around that and be finished in months when your competitors take years.  Elegance be damned, first-mover advantage is huge and the software that has been released for 2 years and been through many cycles of end-user feedback and improvement will be light years ahead of the elegantly-architected solution that just came out today.

The Ethereum thing was kinda/sorta an afterthought.  Counterparty has had support for smart contracts since its inception -- that's kind of whole the idea.  But the smart contracts had to be built into the Counterparty protocol itself.  E.g. a contract for difference, or a contract for a bet based on a feed, or an escrow (which is effectively what a bet is -- 2 parties contribute their amounts to a 3rd party, and the 3rd party pays the winner based on the result -- in Counterparty, this bet can be enforced.)  But Ethereum has been working on developing a language for describing smart contracts so that ANYBODY can create arbitrary smart contracts on the Ethereum platform; and Counterparty took that language and integrated it into Counterparty.  So smart contracts that will work in Ethereum when it is released, will also work in Counterparty.  So that's what the Ethereum announcement today was about.

A smart contract can also be a purchase or sell order in an exchange.  This is how the Counterparty Assets are built.  I can make an asset that represents a share in a company, for example (legalities notwithstanding).  I can sell that share to somebody else by offering it at a given price.  This offer is noted in the blockchain and is enforced by the Counterparty protocol.  If somebody else comes along and places a buy order that matches my sell order, the protocol matches the two, I receive my money (XCP or BTC) and the buyer receives the share of stock.  My share is effectively escrowed by the protocol when I place the sell order, and the buyer's XCP is effectively escrowed when they place the buy order.  The protocol matches the orders and releases the escrows.  All of this is done trustlessly.  It is a true decentralized exchange.  (Of course, you have to trust *somebody*.... e.g. if you're buying shares in my company, you need to trust that I'm who I say I am, and that I will pay dividends etc.  But that can be taken care of elsewhere.  I can publish my information and the information about the company, and sign a message from the asset-issuing XCP address proving that I own that address.)

Now, it is a truly decentralized exchange.  Now how do you trade cryptocurrencies on it?  This gets a little harder, and again requires some trust.  Say that I have 200 DRK.  I put those DRK into an address and publish that address, and create the "XCPDRK" asset on Counterparty which is pegged to the price of DRK at 1:1.  So people can trade "XCPDRK" as if it were actual DRK.  Theoretically they could cash in their XCPDRK for real DRK on the DRK blockchain, but ideally that would never happen because it would be time-consuming.

This is already happening in some ways.  There is an asset issuer that has issued gold-backed assets on the Counterparty Decentralized Exchanged (usually called the DEx).  They took photos of the gold bars and put them into storage with a well-known gold storage company.  You can buy and sell the gold-backed assets and trade them against BTC and XCP on the Counterparty DEx.  And if you choose to, you can redeem your DEx gold-backed assets for actual gold for a fee, and you can come and pick it up in person.

So I hope that illuminates the Counterparty world for you.  It would theoretically be easy to fork Counterparty to run on DRK (it has already been cloned on Litecoin, Dogecoin, and Viacoin, among possibly others), but it might have weird interactions with the Masternodes and Darksend... it would probably take a while to be verify that everything works as it should, and it might require a bit of adaptation.  But honestly I am surprised that nobody has yet announced a Darkparty implementation.  The biggest problem would be getting it off the ground by distributing the tokens (DRKP?) since it is essentially an arbitrary thing.... no mining required.

[Ignition75]

But that's what I don't understand, why do you see the need to tell me that this "isn't likely to go anywhere"?
What do you win by saying that?
To my ears that's like noise.

I for one see a lot of potential and business opportunity in the crypto world.

I agree, there is a lot of potential. I'm not even saying your work isn't or wouldn't be worth what you're asking. 150 DRK per month for a daily animated cartoon like that is cool. And you're free to ask if anyone is interested in that arrangement. The comments are just observations on the situation. When the potential 'bosses' you are asking a salary from are all doing volunteer work themselves, it's like asking a homeless man if he has any spare change so you can buy a coffee.

I see my fellow Darkcoiners as savvy investors with computerskills etc... those aren't exactly hobos.
(Though I remember camosoul saying that he once was homeless BEFORE he entered the cryptoworld. Hope he keeps himself above water these days... )

So you think we are all just bums, hm?  
(I am pulling your leg, ofcourse)

Hey dude, I've always sent through a tip when I could, I really enjoy your work and I think you have a massive role to play in DRK's future.

I will be very happy to support you once my existing crowd funding exercise has finished, which hasn't gone too well mind you.  I honestly thought I would get the same level of support that Kristov Atlas got when we crowd funded his analysis, however then I realised, people are more likely to donate when they see something specific being done.

Are you a fan of Formula One?  The McLaren team have a "Tooned" mini series which does a really good job at building the brand, I think if we put together a framework for something similar, albeit on a much smaller scale, for the Darkcoin Story, we could be onto something.  I feel we would get more community support as well.

[tungfa]

hey ignite
good effort on the crowd funding

yes I agree not that easy anymore !
for Kristov we had the 1000 in no time
now you lucky if you score 100

I did one for my PR writers and stopped at 50 and paied half of it myself
I guess priorities are somewhere else now !

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

...

I will be very happy to support you once my existing crowd funding exercise has finished, which hasn't gone too well mind you.  I honestly thought I would get the same level of support that Kristov Atlas got when we crowd funded his analysis, however then I realised, people are more likely to donate when they see something specific being done.

Let's make sure we extend the dev fundraising efforts into the era when anonymization has the stamp of approval again. I can guarantee some donations will free up! And thanks for your work.

[Ignition75]

hey ignite
good effort on the crowd funding

yes I agree not that easy anymore !
for Kristov we had the 1000 in no time
now you lucky if you score 100

I did one for my PR writers and stopped at 50 and paied half of it myself
I guess priorities are somewhere else now !

Thanks so much Tungfa, things are not going to be donation based for much longer, had a quick chat with Evan and he mentioned the Darkcoin Foundation will be formalising developer income soon, I think Fernando is putting something together.

In the meantime I'm happy to do this, I wish I had technical or marketing skills so I could contribute more.

[Ignition75]

...

I will be very happy to support you once my existing crowd funding exercise has finished, which hasn't gone too well mind you.  I honestly thought I would get the same level of support that Kristov Atlas got when we crowd funded his analysis, however then I realised, people are more likely to donate when they see something specific being done.

Let's make sure we extend the dev fundraising efforts into the era when anonymization has the stamp of approval again. I can guarantee some donations will free up! And thanks for your work.

It's my absolute pleasure...