[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[splawik21]

Total Masternodes: 1375 = 1375 actives + 0 inactives (Last refresh: Tue Dec 09 2014 11:11:06 PM)
Estimated daily payout for an active node (blocks with MN payments last 24h: 100%): 0.62 DRK/day (Last Refreshed: Tue Dec 09 2014 11:11:06 PM)

 

looks like you`ve added one already

[wozzek23]

I've read every post and response on this. I can understand your concern wozzek23 but I do think you're failing to comprehend some of the key aspects of Darkcoin's economic architecture. You're speaking and hypothesising from the basis of a notion that coins are "rapidly disappearing" because of their use in MN's. As has been pointed out, they're not "locked up", they're simply reserved for the MN they're associated with. They can be removed from that situation and in back in circulation within seconds, so in essence they've never been taken out of circulation. There's a balance between people selling their DRK for gain and people holding their DRK for potential greater gain and/or MN income. The various pressures/forces involved keep things in relative order. When adoptions starts approaching something more akin to prime time, we'll see the MN numbers rise and fall as people make their own interpretations of risk/reward. I think the economic architecture is pretty sound.

I think you're also getting strung up on whole amounts of DRK versus DRK divided down into it's 8 decimal places. As per Tao's tweet just now, Darkcoin will eventually consist of a total of 21,000,000,000,000,000 units. That's really how it needs to be looked at. Liquidity will be fine because any single DRK is in fact 100,000,000 duffs and there are coins being added every day through the mining process.

It's an important discussion though and I think it was good you've raised it.

Our, human ability to find ingenious solutions - and I don't mean this to be disparaging, on the contrary - is a fantastic feature. Tao's 21,000,000,000,000,000 units and your semantic distinction in between "locked up" and "reserved" are examples of it. So, my hypothetical situation that was based on a scenario in which coins are "reserved" i.e. not readily, freely available to purchase on the market unless someone liquidates her or his MN, might not be a feasible scenario at all. Economic forces should take care of it - only that we never before had a situation in which one asset class, the number of its units,  is precisely defined by mathematics. (one can calculate to the duff, how many coins are going to be in circulation 274 days or 3 years from today) Such uncharted territory must have some dangers hidden in it, not only on the arcane (for a n00b like me) side of Sybil attacks and what not, but on the economic side of it.

I also do worry about more normal circumstances, in which majority of the coins are not freely available on the market and as such, might create a liquidity problem. This is an age old issue in all the asset markets and not something one should dismiss only because a new market / asset class as Darkcoin / has not encountered any similar problems yet.

However, as a true Darkcoin believer I am indeed inclined to take oblox's view, that my argument is "stupid," as correct, but I will monitor all the statistics that I monitor already anyway, just in case

[thelonecrouton]

Anyone has a working start-many setup? I cannot get mine to work. It says not capable masternode on all mns. I offer a 10 drk bounty for the help (if we can get my mns to work).

I'm past all basic troubleshooting, yet I cannot find why it's not working. :/

It went from alpha-use-at-your-own-risk to not-working-don't-even-bother-trying a few point releases ago. Forget about it until it's properly implemented.

[innergy]

Total Masternodes: 1375 = 1375 actives + 0 inactives (Last refresh: Tue Dec 09 2014 11:11:06 PM)
Estimated daily payout for an active node (blocks with MN payments last 24h: 100%): 0.62 DRK/day (Last Refreshed: Tue Dec 09 2014 11:11:06 PM)

 

looks like you`ve added one already

Soon.. 

[oblox]

Well, considering the breakout of available 1000 coin blocks wouldn't allow for maxing out the masternodes coupled with the monthly increase in masternode payout percentages, I don't foresee returns being THAT low. Even so, 6.4% for sitting on your ass and effectively doing nothing in an already low rate environment aint too shabby. Granted, if you don't believe in DRK, you probably aren't going to be running a masternode for long periods of time anyway.

Don't forget that the 6.4% doesn't yet include any expenses, either. At $5/mo for hosting, you can shave off a couple more % (depending on what the price of one DRK is).

It's an impractical scenario as is so just talking about it is stupid in itself. At present moment, there aren't enough 1k block holders to allow the supply to be all tied up in masternodes.

[anonymousxx1503]

As Sir Crouton would say, and Satoshi too (Sir Crouton is now part of crypto royalty), you just move the decimal point to suit circulation needs.

That's how 21 million bitcoins can underpin the global financial system. OR; how ~21m Darkcoins can underpin the global gov paper system

Thanks to all of you guys - qwizzie, strix, oblox (to Tao: all is fine) - for you contributions, I only do not want to quote everyone and hijack the board entirely  

OK, but if you "move the decimal point" you have increased the coins supply 10x. Remember the community's reaction when Evan suggested (in fact it was leaked) a coin merge a while ago? The "merger" would've been funded by Darkcoins. Evan even had a brilliant idea of decreasing the number of circulated coins so, at the end, the number of coins would stay the same. The community went berserk over what would've been, I think about 4% or so, for sure less than 10% (temporary) increase of the total number of coins.

I am not aware of that decimal point move idea, but it would resemble the fiat world in which with a flicker of pen (or an enter on a keyboard) you "create" 10 times more coins thusly defying the very core idea of a "finite number" and you're in a totally new ballgame whose rules do not exist yet. (who would "authorize" such increase? Ben Bernake or that new creature at the FED or "our equivalent" of it?)

By doing this you're taking the power out of mathematics - again, the very core of Bitcon / Darkcoin advantages - and give it back to the people, us, poor carbon based, sub-lunar, corruptible creatures...

I really don't think you have much to contribute to a darkcoin paper if you don't intuitively understand what's pretty much basic market forces. I mean you're taking something simple and just saying "but what if all this stuff that is, actually isn't".

[HinnomTX]

Let's not overhype ourselves with the '21,000,000,000,000,000 units' claim.

First, it's wrong by a factor of 10. 21e+6 DRK * 100e+6 duffs/DRK = 2.1e+15 duffs. That 2.1 quadrillion duffs, NOT 21 quadrillion.

Second, under the current architecture, the total number of anonymizable units is 210,000,000. (21,000,000 DRK / 0.1 DRK per anon address). So the anonymous coin divisibility stops at 0.1 DRK, not 0.00000001 DRK.
  
Let's keep it down to Earth, please.

[oblox]

Second, under the current architecture, the total number of anonymizable units is 210,000,000. (21,000,000 DRK / 0.1 DRK per anon address). So the anonymous coin divisibility stops at 0.1 DRK, not 0.00000001 DRK.
 
Let's keep it down to Earth, please.

In this fake world, if it got to that point where people are transacting primarily in duffs, Evan would create a new denomination to work for what would presently be the newly transacted fractions.

[MasterMined710]

i'm going to do a darksend test to see how long it takes to mix. i'll report back my progress.
i'm going to mix 112 DRK @4 rounds starting right now. my setting is for 1001 DRK @ 4 rounds.

a few minutes later and it's already doing it's thing and shows 50% complete. it says inputs have an average of 2 of 4 rounds (50/1.0xxx).

a few more minutes later and we're at 75% complete with 3 of 4 rounds complete (75/1). no charges so far!

wow, minutes later and i'm at 96% complete with 3.8 of 4 rounds complete (95.1/1.0xxx). available darksend balance is now 42 dark ready to send.

seems to be stuck at 96%. this is where it always takes forever.
it says "submitted to masternode, waiting in queue" followed by "darksend idle"  followed sometimes by  "darksend request incomplete, no matching denominations found for ..." and then repeats.

still stuck at 96%. i accidentally closed the wallet just now so i had to reopen it and start darksend mixing again. it started right back up and submitted the last little bit (4%) to the masternode and is waiting in queue again. i have 42 drk out of the 112 drk available to darksend.

i had to shut down my wallet overnight but i'm firing it up again. it only took about 10 minutes to complete 2 rounds but then it got stuck at 96% for about 6-7 hours yesterday. we'll see how long it takes to complete the last 4%.
i just started it again and says it has been "submitted to the masternode, waiting in queue", then it goes back to "darksend is idle" and repeats.

[splawik21]

We have quite interesting discussion on polish bitcoin.pl thread
Are you polish speaker? Come and join.
https://forum.bitcoin.pl/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=15970&start=200

eduffield what will be the cost of the instant transation?

[strix]

lol

there's a storm brewing - lol

That ain't no storm. Its called a tempest!

[Walter_S]

snip......

This simply CAN'T be good! I defy anyone to explain to me how the currency out the circulation is going to be beneficial for our future users?

Without master nodes you don't get anonymity or instant transactions.
You might as well use dogecoin.

next question....this time, make it harder so we need to break a sweat.

No, no, kindly do not go ad hominem just as easy as that.

As a member of Darkcoin Foundation, Darkcoin investor, MN owner and the author of the 1st draft "DARKCOIN: A Private E-Cash Manifesto" (https://darkcointalk.org/threads/darkcoin-private-e-cash-manifesto.2460/#post-22058) I don't need to be dismissed with a dogecoin remark just like that.

I get the Masternodes value but all my points still stay. I do believe the issue I raised is a potentially serious problem and would like someone to help me understand why it is not. (the problem)

I think the best way to look at Darkcoin is just the same as any other currency... And just like any other currency/economy the theories are the same...

Looking at the Masternode issue where 1000DRK x 1350 = 1,350,000DRK has effectively been taken out of circulation you have to think of it like the same £ or $ being locked up in bank deposits or bonds in the fiat economy. It's all capital, whether it's £ $ or DRK and capital will flow to where it gets the greatest return. In fiat, this return can be interest bearing deposits, Bonds, Stocks or Property. In DRK, we have such a young economy that many of the functions such as banking (to create interest bearing deposits/loans), bonds, stocks don't exist yet... However, one function that has been created that solves some of the problems that banks do in the fiat economy is the masternode function. Masternodes provide a utility service to the DRK economy, this supports the economy and secures the capital. In return, operators get 'interest' on their 1000DRK investment and this is very similar to the basic capital/interest function of the fiat economy. Capital in the fiat economy only has value if it can generate surplus interest/profit. DRK capital will be subject to the same forces of economics. How this will unfold in the new Crypto economy is unsure but to answer your original question...

Every 1DRK that is taken out of general circulation in order to receive 'interest' on a masternode investment is only out of circulation for the duration that the owner of the 1DRK of capital would prefer to earn 'interest' on that capital, rather than exchange it for other goods or services. This is no different to the fiat economy. 1DRK of capital that is 'saved/invested' is not necessarily 1DRK of capital that is destroyed or removed from the economy. It's just deployed in that chosen way by the capital owner until such time that they wish to utilise the 1DRK of capital in a different way... Whether that's to exchange it for goods/services/gamble/invest in other opportunities.

It is the beauty of true free market capitalism. Capital will flow to where it has best utility. IF that means that 2million DRK are stored in Masternodes then the market has decided that this is the best way to deploy the capital at this time. There is nothing wrong with this, nor will it cause DRK a problem.

It's what Adam Smith called 'the invisible hand' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand

Hope this helps spark debate and intrest if nothing else...!  

Walter

[k0vic]

I think it's all relative given that no matter what we want items will be priced in fiat for the foreseeable future. That being said, for new users who want to purchase something that may cost 5 dollars, they will buy 5 dollars worth of drk regardless of how much dark that gives them as it's just a means to an end.

For those who want to hoard drk, then I guess the same can be said about any digital currency. I should have bought more bitcoin when it was at 28.00 but I didn't now I have to buy it as 300+. So the currency is out of circulation whether its in a masternode or a wallet or "bag."

[Drobek]

Mister 2 posts

I made money on Darkcoin 4:1, but now, just google it 'bitcointalk eduffield' - and analyze latest Duffield's posts yourself accurately - you will see the sad truth.

Give the quote or STFU

[eduffield]

We have quite interesting discussion on polish bitcoin.pl thread
Are you polish speaker? Come and join.
https://forum.bitcoin.pl/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=15970&start=200

eduffield what will be the cost of the instant transation?

There's no fee besides what you'd pay the miner in a transaction fee.

[jiggytom]

Anyone has a working start-many setup? I cannot get mine to work. It says not capable masternode on all mns. I offer a 10 drk bounty for the help (if we can get my mns to work).

I'm past all basic troubleshooting, yet I cannot find why it's not working. :/

I know that Camosoul has worked out a simply beautiful solution - but - he won't be coming back


such a loss - ugh

Can't tell if you are being serious.  He can always discuss it on DCT (again).

On another note, quickly approaching 1,400 MNs.  After having some delayed payment issues, I'm getting regular (some even more frequent than expected) payments. 

[Ignition75]

That was a good healthy discussion, I enjoyed reading all the responses.

I'm also enjoying how many people are becoming lifetime members of the Darkcoin foundation then announcing it with pride 

[stealth923]

DRK price has been so stable since November 18th - like a straight line almost on bitcoinwisdom......

[tungfa]

Don't forget to register and donate with the Darkcoin Foundation, there is a lot of things that will need to be done this upcoming year, attend conferences and expos, press releases, advertising, partnerships, etc. We all need to invest in promoting DRK if we want to see our investment grow.  We have to spend money to make money, this is all done with the utmost transparency but the support is needed. What kind of a budget we want Evan to have for 2015?

I am thinking about 50K USD would be a good starting point but we all need to contribute.  Go to www.darkcoinfoundation.org and get a lifetime membership or make a donation, this is the best way to see your investment grow.

good point !!

I signed up for lifetime membership , even though I can not really afford it in the moment
but I see it more as a donation to DRK and us !
we need Dev help and that costs money/ coins , even though we have a strong Dev Team now there are for sure products (iPhone wallet) and jobs which can and should be outsourced (video production, ...)

so see it as a X Mas present / donation to all of us and it is easy
to lash out 100 DRK !
imagine we all do it !! we gonna get DRK up on speed in trouble time !
let's do it !!! ....>>

[Ignition75]

Don't forget to register and donate with the Darkcoin Foundation, there is a lot of things that will need to be done this upcoming year, attend conferences and expos, press releases, advertising, partnerships, etc. We all need to invest in promoting DRK if we want to see our investment grow.  We have to spend money to make money, this is all done with the utmost transparency but the support is needed. What kind of a budget we want Evan to have for 2015?

I am thinking about 50K USD would be a good starting point but we all need to contribute.  Go to www.darkcoinfoundation.org and get a lifetime membership or make a donation, this is the best way to see your investment grow.

good point !!

I signed up for lifetime membership , even though I can not really afford it in the moment
but I see it more as a donation to DRK and us !
we need Dev help and that costs money/ coins , even though we have a strong Dev Team now there are for sure products (iPhone wallet) and jobs which can and should be outsourced (video production, ...)

so see it as a X Mas present / donation to all of us and it is easy
to lash out 100 DRK !
imagine we all do it !! we gonna get DRK up on speed in trouble time !
let's do it !!! ....>>

Banks in Australia have just announced they are spending Billions on a new real time payments platform...

Maybe they have seen InstantX and decided it was time to stay ahead of the competition...

Evan, did you want to change the world finance when you were a young man?  Cause you just might be doing it now...