[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[patmast3r]

Distribution of Nxt:
first 61 days, 1 Nxt = 2 Satoshi = 71 stakeholders
next week, 1 nxt = 100 Satoshi = 400 stakeholders
next weeks, 1 nxt = 400-2000 Satoshi = thousandts of stakeholders

Distribution of Nem:
First 20 pages   : free to join in
pages 21-30     : fee = 0.001 btc or  10nxt
page 81-90     :fee=0.03btc or 300nxt
b)
page 51-60          :fee=0.06btc or 600nxt  

So the distribution of Nxt and Nem is very similar, only with the biggest difference - first stage of Nxt first IPO was 61 days long and Nem had it for a few days (hours?)

How is starting with 3000 stakes similar to starting with 71 stakes ?

[salsacz]

Distribution of Nxt:
first 61 days, 1 Nxt = 2 Satoshi = 71 stakeholders
next week, 1 nxt = 100 Satoshi = 400 stakeholders
next weeks, 1 nxt = 400-2000 Satoshi = thousandts of stakeholders

Distribution of Nem:
First 20 pages   : free to join in
pages 21-30     : fee = 0.001 btc or  10nxt
page 81-90     :fee=0.03btc or 300nxt
b)
page 51-60          :fee=0.06btc or 600nxt  

So the distribution of Nxt and Nem is very similar, only with the biggest difference - first stage of Nxt first IPO was 61 days long and Nem had it for a few days (hours?)

How is starting with 3000 stakes similar to starting with 71 stakes ?

there didn't have to be 71 stakes, 100.000 people in Bitcointalk could send 0.001 Btc during 61 days

[Stadtfeger]

No new source codes yet. We are at brainstorming/ draft/ assigning high level tasks stage. Some updates will come this weekend.

And sorry we are not asking for investors (no need for investors at all); we are asking for participants in a crypto movement/ community. It is not conceptualized as a corporation like Mastercoin or Bitshare. Developers participate in the technical development side and we expect other participants to contribute to other efforts as they can to spread NEM. Distribution is certainly something worthwhile to discuss, just no need to escalate the discussion to a level contrary to our spirit.  

As a participant I would like to know how far is the development so that I can contribute.
Why don't you put a website somewhere, telling what you have decided so far after three weeks of brainstorming, so that I can contribute more.

Or are you expecting the community to do everything for you and you continue collecting money from 'participants'?
I dont want to be a kill joy but after weeks of announcing NEM, I see no progress, no announcements, but just fund collection and 'brain storming', which is making me nervous
as there are so many scams going on in this space.

Thanks.

Updates this weekend we can't have a community without trust, can't we ? I have put up  bounties for managing nemcoin.com; .info and .org so prepare a plan if you want to manage one of them. I think i will put them out for anyone capable after the fund raising is over.

Let me know if you can be a core developer then you can have an access to the core development plan.

For this type of project, funding is never a big factor. for an example you can just compare Mastercoin with NXT and Counter-Party-Protocol. I have explained before, the amount of funding is never a big factor for this project to progress. But the funding is there to establish participant's commitment and to establish the floor price of NEM.
We could have used Proof of Burn instead and this project will still progress, but I just don't see why we should enrich the current Bitcoin holders, so the funding will be kept for development but it will not be the deciding factor of NEM's success or failure.

Of this Updates i wait

[freigeist]

How is starting with 3000 stakes similar to starting with 71 stakes ?

there didn't have to be 71 stakes, 100.000 people in Bitcointalk could send 0.001 Btc during 61 days

They could but they didn't as the
thread was shoveled under other hundreds  shitcoin [ANN] threads.
Who was lucky to find the thread and had balls to send some btc at the right moment
has been rewarded the others who were not so lucky or did not had balls to put some btc
or have been slow to convert FIAT to btc to buy nxt like myself paid or has to pay higher price.
 
There is nothing we can do about this anymore.
The cards have been dealt and the game has started.

[Jaguar0625]

How is starting with 3000 stakes similar to starting with 71 stakes ?

there didn't have to be 71 stakes, 100.000 people in Bitcointalk could send 0.001 Btc during 61 days

They could but they didn't as the
thread was shoveled under other hundreds  shitcoin [ANN] threads.
Who was lucky to find the thread and had balls to send some btc at the right moment
has been rewarded the others who were not so lucky or did not had balls to put some btc
or have been slow to convert FIAT to btc to buy nxt like myself paid or has to pay higher price.
 
There is nothing we can do about this anymore.
The cards have been dealt and the game has started.

I don't want to get in a fight with the NXT people, but it's conjecture to assume that the NXT creators would have allowed more than a total investment of 21 BTC. The NXT IPO was halted suddenly 6 weeks before the posted end date and well below the desired number of stakeholders. In my opinion, there's no reason to believe it wouldn't have ended much sooner if there was more interest earlier. For example, if the NXT IPO received 21BTC on the first day why do we think it wouldn't have been shut down immediately?

[Jaguar0625]

No new source codes yet. We are at brainstorming/ draft/ assigning high level tasks stage. Some updates will come this weekend.

And sorry we are not asking for investors (no need for investors at all); we are asking for participants in a crypto movement/ community. It is not conceptualized as a corporation like Mastercoin or Bitshare. Developers participate in the technical development side and we expect other participants to contribute to other efforts as they can to spread NEM. Distribution is certainly something worthwhile to discuss, just no need to escalate the discussion to a level contrary to our spirit.  

As a participant I would like to know how far is the development so that I can contribute.
Why don't you put a website somewhere, telling what you have decided so far after three weeks of brainstorming, so that I can contribute more.

Or are you expecting the community to do everything for you and you continue collecting money from 'participants'?
I dont want to be a kill joy but after weeks of announcing NEM, I see no progress, no announcements, but just fund collection and 'brain storming', which is making me nervous
as there are so many scams going on in this space.

Thanks.

Updates this weekend we can't have a community without trust, can't we ? I have put up  bounties for managing nemcoin.com; .info and .org so prepare a plan if you want to manage one of them. I think i will put them out for anyone capable after the fund raising is over.

Let me know if you can be a core developer then you can have an access to the core development plan.

For this type of project, funding is never a big factor. for an example you can just compare Mastercoin with NXT and Counter-Party-Protocol. I have explained before, the amount of funding is never a big factor for this project to progress. But the funding is there to establish participant's commitment and to establish the floor price of NEM.
We could have used Proof of Burn instead and this project will still progress, but I just don't see why we should enrich the current Bitcoin holders, so the funding will be kept for development but it will not be the deciding factor of NEM's success or failure.

Of this Updates i wait

Your patience is rewarded. Please find a link to the official NEM development document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NhxTyi4Eo2D_1m1Ca8zvzQr0_RB0dgM2VuWXAIzcS-I. A few sections are still in flux (they are marked with TODOs), but are being worked on at the moment.

I will be monitoring this thread and comments in the document for feedback.

[salsacz]

How is starting with 3000 stakes similar to starting with 71 stakes ?

there didn't have to be 71 stakes, 100.000 people in Bitcointalk could send 0.001 Btc during 61 days

They could but they didn't as the
thread was shoveled under other hundreds  shitcoin [ANN] threads.
Who was lucky to find the thread and had balls to send some btc at the right moment
has been rewarded the others who were not so lucky or did not had balls to put some btc
or have been slow to convert FIAT to btc to buy nxt like myself paid or has to pay higher price.
 
There is nothing we can do about this anymore.
The cards have been dealt and the game has started.

I don't want to get in a fight with the NXT people, but it's conjecture to assume that the NXT creators would have allowed more than a total investment of 21 BTC. The NXT IPO was halted suddenly 6 weeks before the posted end date and well below the desired number of stakeholders. In my opinion, there's no reason to believe it wouldn't have ended much sooner if there was more interest earlier. For example, if the NXT IPO received 21BTC on the first day why do we think it wouldn't have been shut down immediately?

It wasn't about 21 Bitcoins, there was a problem with small amount of new incoming stakeholders and with increasing price for Bitcoin, whose price was tripled by those 61 days since September till November

[freigeist]

I don't want to get in a fight with the NXT people, but it's conjecture to assume that the NXT creators would have allowed more than a total investment of 21 BTC. The NXT IPO was halted suddenly 6 weeks before the posted end date and well below the desired number of stakeholders. In my opinion, there's no reason to believe it wouldn't have ended much sooner if there was more interest earlier. For example, if the NXT IPO received 21BTC on the first day why do we think it wouldn't have been shut down immediately?

We can only speculate on this if would be ended the 1st day or not?
Was the 21 btc the limit to invest?
If the dev wanted to have greater number of stakeholders within 21 BTC
they should have been set a smaller btc cap per person "investor".
Was it ended sooner for other reasons unknown to us or because 21 btc was collected?
Who knows the answers to this questions?!

It ended how it ended we can not change it any more
so there is no reason to dissipate any more energy and time to this issue.

[WildCats]

Why not have a larger number of coins?  Transaction fee could start at 100 NEM and go down over time to 1 NEM.  This avoids using decimals for transaction fee and small purchases.

BTW: Any idea what BCnext thinks of this project?

[patmast3r]

Your patience is rewarded. Please find a link to the official NEM development document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NhxTyi4Eo2D_1m1Ca8zvzQr0_RB0dgM2VuWXAIzcS-I. A few sections are still in flux (they are marked with TODOs), but are being worked on at the moment.

I will be monitoring this thread and comments in the document for feedback.

Thanks a lot for the update !

Would POI not further encourage hoarding ?
If a node is more important if it has had more NEMs for a longer amount of time then everyone will try to keep their NEMs at one place right ?
Also - Will Server nodes be more important then client notes simply by their nature ? I think they should be.
I'm may be missundestanding something about POI so please enlighten me

Did I miss it or is there no Alias-System in there ?
Is transparent forging going to be there ?

Keep up the good work !

[freigeist]

Your patience is rewarded. Please find a link to the official NEM development document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NhxTyi4Eo2D_1m1Ca8zvzQr0_RB0dgM2VuWXAIzcS-I. A few sections are still in flux (they are marked with TODOs), but are being worked on at the moment.

I will be monitoring this thread and comments in the document for feedback.

Thanks you for the detailed info.
I see lots of good features in NEM.
I have read the document and i have few questions.

1st)
What version of NXT code you plan to use to start the development?
I ask this because currently in the NEM codebase there are 2 older versions of NXT
code which contained some flaws.
The flaws have been removed by JeanLuc and the NXT code was refactored since version 0.6.x and 0.7.x.
The latest version of NXT is 0.7.2.

It seem they found another issue with the current version as well
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5039691#msg5039691

2) will NEM have similar JSON web api like NXT has, I mean will have the similar concept
of accessing the api over http https protocols?

Thanks.

[Seedeer]

That's what I'm talking about!

[utopianfuture]

Your patience is rewarded. Please find a link to the official NEM development document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NhxTyi4Eo2D_1m1Ca8zvzQr0_RB0dgM2VuWXAIzcS-I. A few sections are still in flux (they are marked with TODOs), but are being worked on at the moment.

I will be monitoring this thread and comments in the document for feedback.

Thanks a lot for the update !

Would POI not further encourage hoarding ?
If a node is more important if it has had more NEMs for a longer amount of time then everyone will try to keep their NEMs at one place right ?
Also - Will Server nodes be more important then client notes simply by their nature ? I think they should be.
I'm may be missundestanding something about POI so please enlighten me

Did I miss it or is there no Alias-System in there ?
Is transparent forging going to be there ?

Keep up the good work !

The plan is for level 1 blockchain. Advanced features would be added later to the blockchain when we have a stable level 1 blockchain in place. So no 1000 TPS magic portion for now but there have been some discussions on parallel blockchain, reputation system etc.

Stakeholder list is updated to page 60. There will be an update on fundraising going forward after we are done digesting the development plan.

[suky321]

utopianfuture, just wondering how many users have registered now, then I can sort of get an idea of when the announcement will happen when you reach the 4000? threshold.

thanks.

[suky321]

okay, just checked the google doc, there's around 2,500, so not long to go.

[xtester]

Your patience is rewarded. Please find a link to the official NEM development document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NhxTyi4Eo2D_1m1Ca8zvzQr0_RB0dgM2VuWXAIzcS-I. A few sections are still in flux (they are marked with TODOs), but are being worked on at the moment.

I will be monitoring this thread and comments in the document for feedback.

Thanks a lot for the update !

Would POI not further encourage hoarding ?
If a node is more important if it has had more NEMs for a longer amount of time then everyone will try to keep their NEMs at one place right ?
Also - Will Server nodes be more important then client notes simply by their nature ? I think they should be.
I'm may be missundestanding something about POI so please enlighten me

Did I miss it or is there no Alias-System in there ?
Is transparent forging going to be there ?

Keep up the good work !

The plan is for level 1 blockchain. Advanced features would be added later to the blockchain when we have a stable level 1 blockchain in place. So no 1000 TPS magic portion for now but there have been some discussions on parallel blockchain, reputation system etc.

Stakeholder list is updated to page 60. There will be an update on fundraising going forward after we are done digesting the development plan.

Really great work guys.

This seems to me now like one of the most promising altcoins and with each passing day this becomes more and more interesting.

Glad to be part of such a impressing project and community!

Keep up the good work.

[gvans]

  
    gvans ver4


  



    light white version and 16x16pix version in coinmarketcap-size


  





  gvans ver3  ____________________________________________________________

[Jaguar0625]

Why not have a larger number of coins?  Transaction fee could start at 100 NEM and go down over time to 1 NEM.  This avoids using decimals for transaction fee and small purchases.

We can open this up for discussion. Alternatively, we could come up with a name for the smallest unit of NEM and use that (the equivalent of satoshis in Bitcoin).

BTW: Any idea what BCnext thinks of this project?

As far as I know, BCNext went dark shortly after the NXT release. But, this is an interesting comment from CfB shortly after the NXT release:

Now time for bad news.

BCNext is becoming more and more angry coz of stakeholders who don't help Nxt. They don't run their nodes, they don't support bounties, they don't take part in Nxt promotion. He can't force them to do all these things but he can quit this project and join other cryptocoin, no matter if it's called ClonedNxt, and contribute his ideas and code to a competitor of Nxt...


My personal opinion: This guy doesn't care about money nor how much 1 NXT will be worth, I'm 100% sure he will do what he said. I think that Nxt clone will have the same problems and decision to quit Nxt would be one of the worst decisions, but he has his own opinion.
Edit: If stakeholders don't change situation they should sell their coins before price drops below ZERO.

[Jaguar0625]

Would POI not further encourage hoarding ?

If a node is more important if it has had more NEMs for a longer amount of time then everyone will try to keep their NEMs at one place right ?

The key part of the POI summary is this: "Forging power is a factor of a node’s weight and the NEM transfers that link it to other nodes". So, a node that actively engages in transactions will be more important that one that doesn't.

Also - Will Server nodes be more important then client notes simply by their nature ? I think they should be.
I'm may be missundestanding something about POI so please enlighten me

That is a good suggestion that would increase the incentives for running server nodes. We will take that under consideration.

Did I miss it or is there no Alias-System in there ?

We're not targeting that in V1. In place of it, we're allowing accounts to be given friendly names that might give newbies more confidence that they are sending money to the right place.

Is transparent forging going to be there ?

We haven't decided yet because this will depend on the forging algorithm that we choose.

[Jaguar0625]

What version of NXT code you plan to use to start the development?
I ask this because currently in the NEM codebase there are 2 older versions of NXT
code which contained some flaws.
The flaws have been removed by JeanLuc and the NXT code was refactored since version 0.6.x and 0.7.x.
The latest version of NXT is 0.7.2.

It seem they found another issue with the current version as well
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=345619.msg5039691#msg5039691

Our initial plan was to base NEM on the NXT code, which is why there are two versions of the NXT code in the repository. However, this project garnered a really large amount of interest and we have more dev resources than I expected. At this time, it is the consensus of the dev team to base NEM on some of the NXT ideas but write the code from scratch. While this will take a little more time and effort now, I think it will set up NEM much better in the long run.

The goal is not for NEM to be a NXT copy and paste coin. IMO, there's no value in that. With NEM, we want to take some of the best ideas of NXT and Bitcoin and create something new and, hopefully, better.

2) will NEM have similar JSON web api like NXT has, I mean will have the similar concept
of accessing the api over http https protocols?

Yes. The document specifies a rough API, with the caveat that the API will definitely be iterated on during the development process. The one big difference in the NEM API versus the NXT API is that NEM will infer intent from the URL whereas NXT infers intent from the type field in the input object.