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Author Topic: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread  (Read 661424 times)
utopianfuture (OP)
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May 26, 2014, 02:59:08 PM
 #8021

Can you tell me how proof of importance will work?

Makoto should answer that,  I really don't want to hype what we are doing though.


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maruosch
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May 26, 2014, 03:40:31 PM
 #8022

I would like to set a bounty for making an investor's handout based on the information in NEM summary

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1A9p6QZcUoDvezVMUsp2kYaF8g_jTNPFPL5e3Tli-jaI/edit#gid=0

The handout should be professionally done 3-4 pages long. Is 0.5 BTC good enough ? Who want to do it ? it should be done within 1 week. I am available for a chat if more information is needed.

Where should I post this to get more attention ?

Did an infographic:

https://infogr.am/nem-essentials-for-the-investor?src=web
good job!nice and easy to understand Cheesy

I also think this is very clear and "nice".
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May 26, 2014, 03:48:37 PM
 #8023

I am one of the NEM stakeholders in the final list named "xiaoxiaojie"
Now the problem is that my account named"xiaoxiaojie" was banned by BTT.
I contacted the author(utopianfuture), but no response.
Please send messages to my old account or (mailbox is best), verify the authenticity of my.
I hope you can as soon as possible, I had been waiting long.

NXT:NXT-9KQF-4JBZ-XFEH-9H2NB
NTXCoin - 20%Free+75%IPO Next Exchange System address:13725504716929486253
TauMuon
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May 26, 2014, 04:16:49 PM
 #8024

Top 2 Bid order now in AE:
Account                                  Quantity    Price    Total
NXT-5RB8-KJD3-BT3B-E2QWW   0.2         26'000   5'200
NXT-P5JJ-YSAL-G6N7-7WL2N   0.1         25'000   2'500

So cheap! Forget it...


i think nobody sell for that price.
But still 26000NXT for whole stake is 4M$ marketcap for NEM.
When aplha go out...10M$, for beta 30M$ and in july i hope 100 M$
NEM’s market cap will surpass NXT: 500M$

C'mon, let's be realistic; we're talking at least a $100 billion marketcap in the first 3 seconds, $2 trillion + after the first day at least.

NEM - New Economy Movement - http://blog.nem.io/overview/ | www.reddit.com/r/nem | https://www.facebook.com/ourNEM | https://twitter.com/nemcoin
Built from the Ground up with 100% Original Code | A Second-Generation Crypto, Radically Improved over Bitcoin | Philosophy of Solidarity and Egalitarianism
punapeter
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May 26, 2014, 04:44:25 PM
 #8025

Is there any information about how did the closed alpha go on weekend? If I remember correctly, if it went well, there would be an ETA for the open Alpha. Sorry if I remember wrong or have missed the information in the last few posts.
Eadeqa
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May 26, 2014, 05:45:56 PM
 #8026

Some PoW people even don't believe PoS is secure:   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=615843.0

Is POI reviewed by any crypto expert and proven to be secure?


Nomi, Shan, Adnan, Noshi, Nxt, Adn Khn
NXT-GZYP-FMRT-FQ9K-3YQGS
https://github.com/Lafihh/encryptiontest
patmast3r
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May 26, 2014, 05:46:56 PM
 #8027

Is there any information about how did the closed alpha go on weekend? If I remember correctly, if it went well, there would be an ETA for the open Alpha. Sorry if I remember wrong or have missed the information in the last few posts.

I'd say it went pretty well. It was a lot of fun to pump out the first NEM blocks allthough there were some issues discovered that are being worked on right now or are already fixed.
It was also only a test for NIS (being the server part of NEM) since NCC is not finished yet.

I will not spill any guesstimates anymore since it only feeds the trolls if they are not met.  

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May 26, 2014, 05:50:35 PM
 #8028

Some PoW people even don't believe PoS is secure:   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=615843.0

Is POI reviewed by any crypto expert and proven to be secure?



We're in a pre alpha state. Let's implement it first, get a whitepaper out and then talk about review and audits.
"External" audits of unfinished stuff make little to no sense.

Devs are running quite a few simulations though to find the right balance so it's not like they just whip something up and see what people say Smiley

PS: Who listens to POW people ?  Wink

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May 26, 2014, 05:58:42 PM
 #8029

We're in a pre alpha state. Let's implement it first, get a whitepaper out and then talk about review and audits.
"External" audits of unfinished stuff make little to no sense.

You don't need even one line  of code to review the idea behind POI.

In fact, reviews and designs are done before coding starts so that if there are problems, they can be fixed

Nomi, Shan, Adnan, Noshi, Nxt, Adn Khn
NXT-GZYP-FMRT-FQ9K-3YQGS
https://github.com/Lafihh/encryptiontest
tlincoln
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May 26, 2014, 06:02:55 PM
 #8030

Is there any information about how did the closed alpha go on weekend? If I remember correctly, if it went well, there would be an ETA for the open Alpha. Sorry if I remember wrong or have missed the information in the last few posts.

I'd say it went pretty well. It was a lot of fun to pump out the first NEM blocks allthough there were some issues discovered that are being worked on right now or are already fixed.
It was also only a test for NIS (being the server part of NEM) since NCC is not finished yet.

I will not spill any guesstimates anymore since it only feeds the trolls if they are not met.  

It's ALIVE!
rebeca71
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May 26, 2014, 06:09:31 PM
 #8031

No need to hurry, I have no problem with waiting a bit longer.

same here, in fact I am still waiting for my hover car  Grin


Wait for a while don't try so hard
But the wait for a long time Really very upset
tlincoln
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May 26, 2014, 06:13:50 PM
 #8032

NEM Marketing Proposal

...

3. Create a concentrated, sustained and targeted marketing campaign to share our message in the most effective manner:

Action:
...

- Create one or more smart and appealing NEM videos. We can definitely start with something like this in mind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo but why not try to make it more like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5X5cV-4LRo.


CoinDesk recently ran a couple articles on good videos.
http://www.coindesk.com/battle-explainer-videos-tells-bitcoins-story-best/
http://www.coindesk.com/best-bitcoin-videos-infographics-podcasts/

They list several good examples. We can gain some inspiration for NEM's video.

Their list:
Bitcoin made simple -The Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/news/video/2014/apr/30/bitcoin-made-simple-video-animation
Bitcoin explained, in 90 seconds -The Washington Post http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxYj5G9CinU
Bitcoin, Explained -The New York Times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFChBFoqA8s
What is Bitcoin? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc2en3nHxA4
How Bitcoin Works in 5 Minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9jOJk30eQs
How Bitcoin Works Under the Hood http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx9zgZCMqXE
Bitcoin 101 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhe61JaNFLU
http://www.vox.com/explains/2014/4/23/5643382/how-bitcoin-is-like-the-internet-in-the-80s
http://visual.ly/bitcoin-explained
http://visual.ly/bitcoin-infographic
http://visual.ly/realtime-bitcoin
http://dashburst.com/bitcoin-101-digital-currency-revolution-infographic/
http://www.visualcapitalist.com/bitcoin-the-encryption-standard/
http://academicearth.org/electives/internet-knows-bitcoin/
https://www.khanacademy.org/economics-finance-domain/core-finance/money-and-banking/bitcoin/v/bitcoin-what-is-it
https://www.udemy.com/bitcoin-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-crypto
patmast3r
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May 26, 2014, 06:35:37 PM
 #8033

We're in a pre alpha state. Let's implement it first, get a whitepaper out and then talk about review and audits.
"External" audits of unfinished stuff make little to no sense.

You don't need even one line  of code to review the idea behind POI.

In fact, reviews and designs are done before coding starts so that if there are problems, they can be fixed

In this particular case imho you have to code it because there is no other way to find the right balance between all the factors.
Say devs had the time to write a whitepaper and there was no code written yet.
How would they describe the balance of the factors that POI takes into account if they have no idea how they will behave under "real life" conditions?

Of course makoto is way more qualified to answer this so makoto (or any other core dev for that matter) please correct me if I'm wrong here Smiley

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May 26, 2014, 08:01:57 PM
 #8034

Some PoW people even don't believe PoS is secure:   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=615843.0

Is POI reviewed by any crypto expert and proven to be secure?



We're in a pre alpha state. Let's implement it first, get a whitepaper out and then talk about review and audits.
"External" audits of unfinished stuff make little to no sense.

Devs are running quite a few simulations though to find the right balance so it's not like they just whip something up and see what people say Smiley

PS: Who listens to POW people ?  Wink

Whitepaper WON'T be published until beta is ready (which probably will be in August)

NemusExMāchinā
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github: https://github.com/symbol
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May 26, 2014, 08:10:48 PM
 #8035

Some PoW people even don't believe PoS is secure:   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=615843.0

Is POI reviewed by any crypto expert and proven to be secure?

I've read this thread ago, when it comes to NXT implementation of PoS, arguments are simply wrong.

Let's assume you have a lot of NXT. The fact that you can forge block with n traansactions with score X, doesn't mean that at the same time you can forge block B with similar score.
So yes in case of PoS you could SEARCH{*} for a block that would give you best score, but that doesn't mean it is beneficial for you to run "multiple forks simultanously".

{*} by including or excluding some of the TXes

People seem to simplify PoS to "bigger stake -> better 'mining'", when that's actually not the case.

NemusExMāchinā
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github: https://github.com/symbol
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May 26, 2014, 08:50:46 PM
 #8036

We're in a pre alpha state. Let's implement it first, get a whitepaper out and then talk about review and audits.
"External" audits of unfinished stuff make little to no sense.

You don't need even one line  of code to review the idea behind POI.

In fact, reviews and designs are done before coding starts so that if there are problems, they can be fixed

true
but... in some cases it needs coding to make at least simulation to know, how the system works and how the data flows. If such test results need improvements, then the design may be changed or parameters modified or ...

For example in the case of NXT the simulation could have been used to find out, how the forging works and how it distributes the fees. That was not done - at least nobody had written so. (Or was that too obvious, when that has been asked few times Wink )
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May 26, 2014, 09:22:55 PM
 #8037

I would like to set a bounty for making an investor's handout based on the information in NEM summary

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1A9p6QZcUoDvezVMUsp2kYaF8g_jTNPFPL5e3Tli-jaI/edit#gid=0

The handout should be professionally done 3-4 pages long. Is 0.5 BTC good enough ? Who want to do it ? it should be done within 1 week. I am available for a chat if more information is needed.

Where should I post this to get more attention ?

I have posted this to the Subreddit.

NEM - New Economy Movement - http://blog.nem.io/overview/ | www.reddit.com/r/nem | https://www.facebook.com/ourNEM | https://twitter.com/nemcoin
Built from the Ground up with 100% Original Code | A Second-Generation Crypto, Radically Improved over Bitcoin | Philosophy of Solidarity and Egalitarianism
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May 27, 2014, 12:56:51 AM
 #8038

New day!New hope!NEM
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May 27, 2014, 01:01:03 AM
 #8039

I would like to set a bounty for making an investor's handout based on the information in NEM summary

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1A9p6QZcUoDvezVMUsp2kYaF8g_jTNPFPL5e3Tli-jaI/edit#gid=0

The handout should be professionally done 3-4 pages long. Is 0.5 BTC good enough ? Who want to do it ? it should be done within 1 week. I am available for a chat if more information is needed.

Where should I post this to get more attention ?

I have posted this to the Subreddit.

Quite appreciate for your work!
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I am not Dorian Nakamoto.


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May 27, 2014, 01:11:36 AM
 #8040

NEM Marketing Proposal

Here are some thoughts I have regarding NEM marketing side.

Marketing and human nature

The more we study human nature we seem to discover that man is not as rational as he thought. In fact, he is invariably guided by a combination of conscious, subconscious, emotions and biases which often leads to decisions that are at best irrational and at worst very damaging for individuals and society in general. In a utopian world, we would only have to build a great piece of technology and people would rush to adopt it immediately, simply because it would be in their best interest. In our world, however, it seems it has become increasingly hard for people to make sense of the world. Not only that, but even when people understand what’s wrong and what they need to do, they rarely have the power to act in accordance to what they think.

Here’s the point where good marketing comes in. There was a time when people believed they could solve big problems just by pointing the way toward a solution. As we can see now, the decision dynamics of humanity is a nearly impossibly complex mechanism that is rarely advancing in the right direction. So if we want to change something important for the better, we simply cannot leave things to randomness and inertia. The question then is, can we change the course of things, albeit in a small yet instrumental way? And if so, how?

Making it simple and sexy

I think the bitcoin story, though still at its very beginning, can offer some very useful and powerful lessons as to how this may be done, and indeed, confirm this is really possible. Indeed, consider that bitcoin has achieved the current status lacking both simplicity and sexyness. When those will be added(and I know a lot of people are working on that now) I think bitcoin will probably go to a whole other level.

In fact there may be an even better example from which one could learn some important things. Consider the story of Elon Musk, who is arguably one of the most important entrepreneurs/engineer/ inventor alive and apparently a billionaire genius.[1] As he understood where we are today and what are some of the most important problems/threats we could face in the future, he came up with some ideas and plans as to how this problems could be solved and threats could be transformed into powerful innovation for the benefit of humanity. One of the problems he figured is that auto industry was advancing in the wrong direction because of unsustainable production and consumption of energy(Pollution and climate damage with potentially destructive consequences for the long term and high consumption of relatively scarce resources). He also figured that arguably for the immediate future the solution would lay in electric cars. The biggest problem with electric cars was their perception. Who wants them?! They’re slow, ugly, unreliable, low range, boring and unsexy. So even if you would make an electric car, you could not beat people into buying it, nobody would. Or at least, nobody until they learned about Tesla Motors.[2] Elon musk figured that the most effective way to solve the problem would be to radically redefine the perception about electric cars by creating the first compelling electric car ever built that would capture the imagination of people. It should be better in almost every aspect than its gasoline competitors[3] but most important of all, the car should be sexy, irresistibly sexy. This is how the burden of psychological hard work has changed from the customer to the inventor.  An irresistibly sexy product has been created and all the customer needs to do is follow his basic instincts, passively catalyzing the solution for a very important problem in the process.

An antifragile solution

It seems the solutions offered until now are very fragile precisely because they are inherently dependent on a highly unstable variable, the human nature. But think for a second, what if we could engineer a meta-solution, one that could solve or isolate a much bigger problem which would in turn render us resilient or even better yet, antifragile to human nature?

How would that look in reality? Well, instead of asking of people to use their will power, self-discipline and invest a great deal of intellectual and psychological effort to fight a long war with the current economic and banking system, we should try to put in a great deal of thought at the beginning and design an irresistible, almost addictive product that would drive the way to decentralization at the greatest speed precisely when people would lack any kind of will power and self-discipline and would rather act instinctively and impulsively following their blind desires.

The tipping point


Lets say we could engineer such a product, well in that case, our only target would be to reach a tipping point. It would be reached when enough mass and speed would unleash an exponential growth period. That is the point when epidemics become pandemics, when growth explodes in such a way that it virtually becomes unstoppable. Beyond that point there won't be any need for us.

A tale of mass adoption

If there would be a worthy goal for NEM, it would certainly be mass adoption. In fact if mass adoption of NEM would happen, at least part of all the problems regarding current unsustainable economic systems would be solved in the process. It would seem the best way to start working on NEM would be with this final goal in mind. Picture a utopian future where NEM mass adoption has already happened. Now look closely at that future, what do you see? All you have to do now is reason backwards from there or reverse-engineer the process to understand what would have had to happen in order for NEM to reach that point.

Although there are a lot of things that are very blurry about that version of the future, at least some things are crystal clear:
- We have radically redefined the perception about crypto-currency by shifting from this complex geeky thing to making it the simplest, safest and fastest way to use money and transfer value.
- We have made the complex technological part almost invisible and came up with some simple and useful gadgets/devices which would allow us to do everything we need.
- We have gradually removed all impediments(physical or psychological) toward mass adoption – including thinking about it.
- Nobody cares how it’s even called anymore because it just works and everybody uses it.
- We have stopped showing average people technical specs and features and created a simple story to capture their imagination and outline the great benefits they have when using our system, because we figured that’s the only thing they care about.
- We have created an abundant ecosystem and seamlessly integrated NEM to naturally be used for everything we do in the world.
- We made money simple and sexy, all while solving some of the most critical economic problems in the process.

I understand that for mass adoption to happen, multiple paradigm shifts and pandemic like adoption rates are necessary at some point, however I think the idea is still worth a thought experiment.

Maybe there is a way we can somehow orchestrate these things to reach that outcome, maybe NEM is one of the next black swans.

Here are some steps we could start with now in order to take that version of the future closer to reality:

1. Outline a basic plan/roudmap toward mass adoption(or whatever our target is) and establish some basic guidelines in the form of checkpoints toward which the community could aim.

2. Focus on establishing our brand:

Action:

- answer these questions: who are we?(currency, store of value, payment system, a movement to enable all of that and a lot more?) what are 3 terms that best describe the benefits we bring to the end user(E.g. simplicity, financial freedom, security?), what is our target?

3. Create a concentrated, sustained and targeted marketing campaign to share our message in the most effective manner:

Action:

- Define core principles and values for our NEM movement.
- Spread our brand(key words, logo, smart and attractive campaign) everywhere.
-  Create a "secret" feature launch calendar and strategically coordinate launch dates and announcements of important features.
- Create the investors handout and update it along the way with our history, most important benefits we bring  and long term plan(all covered in good marketing).
- Create one or more smart and appealing NEM videos. We can definitely start with something like this in mind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo but why not try to make it more like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5X5cV-4LRo.
- Create a cool weekly blog and newsletter for all NEM stakeholders containing updates, market analysis, pre-announcements of features etc.
- Set a target to strategically market ourselves in the most important newspapers, publications, well known blogs and conferences four our field.
- Coordinate social media accounts strategically and effectively in accordance to our branding.
- Strategically target and offer 5 - 10 free stakes to convert celebrities/entrepreneurs/ influential people to NEM.(Economists, smart technology guys, entrepreneurs, etc)
- Try to create a viral marketing campaign - offering a great incentive to all stakeholders/businesses to bring new people in.
- Create a NEM evangelist manual outlining how businesses should be pitched and have a F.A.Q. added to the manual.
- Contact several payment processors right after the alpha launch and establish a relationship with them. (Bitpay, Coinbase, Coinkite, etc) in order to be able to offer merchants and businesses the ability to accept NEM as soon as possible and even allow them to pay salary in NEM.
- Establish the demographics of our ideal user and try to develop a very appealing marketing strategy for him.
- Create a campaign in which every NEMster is attempting to bring 3(or more) of his smartest friends into NEM.
- Create some NEM games.
- Create a corporate design theme.(I like what NXT is doing)
- Establish what we can and want to do for businesses and try to develop a very appealing marketing strategy to help businesses accept NEM, list on our asset exchange, etc(show them step by step how to do it and how they would benefit from doing that).
- Establish a target of reaching at least 30000 users until the end of 2014 and plan how we can do that.
- Establish a target to get at least 30 companies to list on our asset exchange until the end of 2014 and plan how we can achieve that.
- Establish a target to find at least 10 companies that will pay salaries in NEM until the end of 2014.
- Establish a target to fund at least 20 big NEM project to enrich the NEM ecosystem until the end of 2014.
- I have some more ideas which will be kept secret till the right moment comes.

I also believe it is extremely important try to measure the effect of strategies we undertake in order to know if we want to pivot or persevere.

This plan is meant to be some food for thought and a springboard for the community to start participating. When looking at the suggestions above, do it with this question in mind: how could we improve things even more, how can we make things even more effective?

When you think about the great potential NEM has please understand this, we're only at the very beginning and trust me, you've seen nothing yet.

---------------------------------------------------------------
[1]Elon Musk is working on two things at the moment: Making life multiplanetary and accelerating the advent of sustainable and energy efficient means of transportation. He is CEO of two companies at the same time(SPACEX and Tesla Motors), works 80-100 hours weekly and is arguably building the most advanced rockets and cars in the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk
[2] Here is a car built from the ground up to take advantage of the technology available in the 21st century. http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features#/environment
[3]Tesla Model S was rated 99 out of 100 point on consumer report: http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/09/autos/tesla-model-s-consumer-reports/

Update: I have added a note on the antifragile solution and tipping point.


TL;DR: To promote NEM we need to use marketing to guide people to use NEM and create a coherent ecosystem to attract new users.

This post is very well thought out and I hope all of our stakeholders read it all. If we have 3000 stakeholders like xtester, we would easily pass bitcoin in market cap.

I think the most important thing we can do in the short term is to create really great usability for the NEM client and NEM ecosystem services. Then basing on that usability, we can make a promo video showing how NEM can help people in their daily lives. If we really do nail the user-interface/experience issues, then we should be able to attract a lot of people organically.

It's important to step back and think a little about what the main contribution of NEM should be. Why do we need a "new economy" in the first place? Isn't everything just grand the way it is?

As many people realize, banking practices such as the fractional reserve system make us all poorer by devaluing our earnings. The current economy is also plagued by barriers that block access to things like seeds and other materials that are needed to create food and wealth. Food is also poorly distributed and the current system has barriers in place to keep certain countries down. For example, in Korea most of the money supply is controlled by international banks, leading to the current situation where people have to work very hard to make very little money. This is a form of modern-day slavery and has caused an increase in crime and prostitution (an amazing 1.6% of GDP is from prostitution! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_South_Korea).

These problems are caused by structural inadequacies in the OLD economy. By creating better access to goods (asset exchange) and shifting power from the banks to the people (P2P decentralized monetary system using proof-of-importance), we can build a NEW economy and make a real difference in peoples' lives.

                
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Sora
| SoraTopia | SoraEconomy                                                    
/The Decentralized Autonomous Economy /
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