[POT]PotCoin - Banking for the Legal Cannabis Industry ✦ ✦ ✦Grow With Us ✦ ✦ ✦

[sirsmokesalot]

No worries, man... the Reddit users gave the thumbs up.

TO THE MOON!

Very constructive comment, indeed. 

Well one thing is for sure, the block reward drops exponentially, while the time required to circulate potcoin increases to the moon. 653,000+ years , give or take an epoch. I wonder how many folks will be interested in mining when it's producing 1 coin a block within 2 years. Or even 50 coins per block this year.

Wait, so you are complaining that they are halving the coin?

That as a result of the halving the rewards are going to be not enticing enough for miners to continue to mine?

What is going to happen then if the rewards aren't halved? Have you done the same mapping? Just curious..

[bonesoul]

http://pot.coinium.org/

[ny2cafuse]

Wait, so you are complaining that they are halving the coin?

That as a result of the halving the rewards are going to be not enticing enough for miners to continue to mine?

What is going to happen then if the rewards aren't halved? Have you done the same mapping? Just curious..

I think he's stating the fact that the halving is too aggressive.  I'd have to agree.

And it's a good question.  Was any math done on the halving, or was it just arbitrary numbers that they came up with?  The fact that we will be at 1 coin per block in two years.... how is that any different than mining out the coin within the next year or so, and a year later mining for the 0.1 in TX fees?  The coin was scheduled to halve at 840k blocks, which would would leave 280k blocks left to mine with a 240POT reward.  We were a long way out from either of those, but there is this sense of needing to "fix" it now and make radical changes.  The propaganda-like fear of ASICs and the ignorant posting of Reddit comments like "just halve it already before it's too late" and "the coin will die if we don't halve it right now".

Instead of all this halving talk, there should have been talks about what different approaches would look like over time.  A 5-10% reduction in rewards every 2-4 months would have been a more gradual approach.  Hell, even extending the block time to 60 seconds instead of 40.  In the long run, that's a lot of time added to mining.  That's something to the tune of 200 extra days worth of block time over the next 870k-ish blocks.  

The new halving schedule will make a 50% reduction every 2 months or so.  The market shock alone every 2 months is going to drive people away.  This coin is going to halve, and it's going to halve fast.  Anyone that thinks the market, or the miners, are going to tolerate that kind of change is fooling themselves.

My 2 cents...

-Fuse  

[sirsmokesalot]

Wait, so you are complaining that they are halving the coin?

That as a result of the halving the rewards are going to be not enticing enough for miners to continue to mine?

What is going to happen then if the rewards aren't halved? Have you done the same mapping? Just curious..

I think he's stating the fact that the halving is too aggressive.  I'd have to agree.

And it's a good question.  Was any math done on the halving, or was it just arbitrary numbers that they came up with?  The fact that we will be at 1 coin per block in two years.... how is that any different than mining out the coin within the next year or so, and a year later mining for the 0.1 in TX fees?  The coin was scheduled to halve at 840k blocks, which would would leave 280k blocks left to mine with a 240POT reward.  We were a long way out from either of those, but there is this sense of needing to "fix" it now and make radical changes.  The propaganda-like fear of ASICs and the ignorant posting of Reddit comments like "just halve it already before it's too late" and "the coin will die if we don't halve it right now".

Instead of all this halving talk, there should have been talks about what different approaches would look like over time.  A 5-10% reduction in rewards every 2-4 months would have been a more gradual approach.  Hell, even extending the block time to 60 seconds instead of 40.  In the long run, that's a lot of time added to mining.  That's something to the tune of 200 extra days worth of block time over the next 870k-ish blocks.  

The new halving schedule will make a 50% reduction every 2 months or so.  The market shock alone every 2 months is going to drive people away.  This coin is going to halve, and it's going to halve fast.  Anyone that thinks the market, or the miners, are going to tolerate that kind of change is fooling themselves.

My 2 cents...

-Fuse  

I won't deny the sarcasm with what i said, but i was also sincerely interested. Because yeah, the picture he was painting is the same picture as if the coin was not halved at all. I am not doubting that an over zealous halving can have the same negative impact that not halving the coin could have. Would be interested to see which one is more damaging.

One halving a year, the first halving more than a halving, perhaps a quartering? If the goal is to extend the rewards of mining to something palatable for the next few years, what is a sustainable rate? They can reduce the rewards to anything though, right? Everyone always refers to it as halving, but i think it needs a lot more than just that for the first round. There are plenty of coins out there right now, if people want them. I guess the bigger issue is will the miners still hang around. Logically speaking they are all still receiving the same proportional rewards relative to their mining power. As long as miner x isn't mining blocks at 420 reward while miner y only receives 105, why wouldn't they stick around. Same difference.   

I see such an intense halving as a way to make people feel as though there is a squeeze for the coin, to put pressure on them to mine. They do the shot clocks on every infomercial these days, call now in the next 10 minutes! Do it once, give people a chance to mine a bit, do it again further down the road. I would rather see a huge cut up front and then nothing for a long while, like a year+.

I can't say i have read anywhere on what their exact plans for halving are. I am still optimistic that they are going to heavily consider alternatives though as the initial halving schedule was far too intense and nearly nullifies the whole ordeal of forking the coin to the begin with. If you only extend it by a couple months, why bother?

Does the amount of hash on the coin determine how fast it is mined out? Is the difficulty what is supposed to counter the hash to maintain the desired block timings? So it really shouldn't matter if there is 10 mh/s or 10000 mh/s. Am i over simplifying that in my mind or is that an okay way of looking at things?

[ny2cafuse]

I can't say i have read anywhere on what their exact plans for halving are. I am still optimistic that they are going to heavily consider alternatives though as the initial halving schedule was far too intense and nearly nullifies the whole ordeal of forking the coin to the begin with. If you only extend it by a couple months, why bother?

They aren't considering alternatives.  They had the wallets coded and in testing before the did the poll, as stated by Potcoin on Reddit.  They were going to halve the coin the way they wanted regardless.

If they were considering any kind of alternatives right now, Potcoin wouldn't be telling people they already have the wallet coded and in testing.

Anyone can do the math that Vesper did.  He does this stuff for a living, and he know's what he's talking about.  Vesper, can you share the table you came up with?

The fear of not halving was that the coin would be mined out and people would be mining .1POT in TX fees in less than 2 years.  The reality is that if the network hashrate stays the same, and we don't even factor in ASICS, that the coin will halve itself to 1POT per block in about 2 years.

Why indeed, mate... why indeed...

-Fuse

[Jamis]

http://stasny.us/images/Halving.gif
Here is a table assuming that the coin really is halved every 150K blocks as noted in the survey. Because of the geometric progression of halving, we will never get past 180M coins as it becomes asymptotic at just over 180M coins. We need to think through a model that reduces the supply but does not kill off the reward.   For example, if the block reward is halved twice down to 105, but then stays there, mining can continue to late 2017 before we hit 420M coins.

[ny2cafuse]

Jamis, +1 for the info.  Numbers look the same as what Vesper plotted earlier today.

I honestly think the best approach to this is a percentage decrease every X amount of blocks.  This model would extend mining far beyond what the halving will do, and it will ease the markets into the reward changes.  A 5% decrease every 100k blocks is a lot less aggressive than a 50% decrease every 150k.  Hell, you could even do something like 2% every 50k-75k.

-Fuse

[Jamis]

The survey results (https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-2HJGSNH/) clearly show the community is in favor of halving and also halving at 150K blocks. Perhaps we need to do that twice down to 105 coin reward but stick there. Keeping the reward at 105 coins after two halvings at 150K block levels we would reduce the coins mined per day from 907K to 226.75K and we would hit 420M coins mined about Nov 2017.

[sirsmokesalot]

Thank you! That chart and graph is very nice!

I don't think it is an issue if the mining stops, it is just a matter of when. Give it two more years of mining and hopefully many more states will hop on the legalization train to funky town as well. The end game is to have the coin be worth enough and circulating enough that people don't mind processing the transactions for the fees?

I would be interested to see how the dynamic plays out if the reward was cut so steeply. I personally feel like i would be in a better situation having as much as i do, knowing that it will be that much more difficult for others to obtain it. I know that doesn't mean price is going to rise. I guess i do want it to crash a bit as i want to buy a lot more of it for as cheap as i possibly can. It certainly gains more value to me though knowing that it is harder to get. It is still worthless until it can be used, i get it i get it.

The percentage decrease is a fine idea as well. Different way of achieving the same results is all.

I think the market needs some shake up though. If it all happens around a successful launch of the atms at dispensaries followed by some hopefully positive press coverage, that could then sustain the price at something a bit higher as people begin to see a bit of light hit the silver lining. Just having the machines in the stores is enough to get people to ask "what is that" and spawn some new interest. As the feds keep diluting the value of the dollar, crypto becomes and easier and easier sell.

Compared to what was proposed there aren't many bad ideas. If we really wanted to get nuts. It would be interesting to see dynamic rewards based upon difficulty and maybe some other novelty variable to add some excitement, who knows? I know that is something that would result in at least one more fork, don't want to see it on this coin, and thinking about it i think i have read that some alt is doing something like that, but it is interesting to contemplate.

My investment style is def long term, so i am with the coin until it is either the king or in the crypt.

[vesperwillow]

Jamis, good chart.. exact same figures and analysis I came up with. I hate to say it, but I doubt anyone in charge thought to even do that. When I saw the halving code I about lost an eyeball, I couldn't believe it.

Multiple issues with what's going on. First, yeah I did evaluate potcoin's original technical design along time ago. The original halving was fine because the problem isn't coin circulation. Now, you guys are going to basically vamp yourselves by the end of 2014. Presume the coin goes back to 1000sat, who on earth is going to want to mine junk at 50 coins per block for that value? Nobody with sense.

Second, with fewer people interested in mining, you lose hashrate. Hashrate secures the blockchain. If you though a multipool was bad a couple weeks back, you just wait until you're under 1GH network hash and see how that goes for you. Smart business coins have a dedicated private mining farm to help ensure security.

Third, a pure democracy never works. You guys are going by community polls and the people's voice. That's cute. How many of them did this type of analysis? How many of them even knew the original technical design of the coin? What about the fact that the coin needs a use for it to carry value beyond speculation? I would wager the majority folks behind the 'voice' know none of this, and just are guessing/hoping that reducing total coin population would increase value. Like most other reddit-supported coins have done recently, most of which have failed after halving or coin changes.

This isn't economics 101 with supply and demand. There's no demand.

For awhile now I've noticed that there's no (apparent) executive leadership on board. It's good to hear the people's concerns and to address them, but to do it wisely. Small changes here and there. Examine what those changes could do in the long run. Consult folks.

There's been a few good posts over the last couple of days which is good, but to just +balls on halving the way it's planned presently.. that's foolish. Let me say, I'm against halving at all. But if you're going to do it, don't cut your arms and legs off to spite your nose which is what's happening. A gradual reduction would've been better, or a self-destructing coin like PPC, where the circulation grows but old coins are wiped out.

Anyhow, the root of the issue is there's no use for the coin, no demand for it, price is purely speculative. There's no benefit of this over dopecoin. Cannacoin at least is being used. None of what's going on solves the root issue, you're just kicking dust up around the grave trying not to fall in.

This isn't belittling anyone, this is just cold hard fact. Do I personally believe this coin will pull out of the nose dive? No.

But best of luck to those trying, prove me wrong. I'll keep an eye in here every now and then like usual.

[vesperwillow]

The fear of not halving was that the coin would be mined out and people would be mining .1POT in TX fees in less than 2 years.  The reality is that if the network hashrate stays the same, and we don't even factor in ASICS, that the coin will halve itself to 1POT per block in about 2 years.

Which is why any good business coin has a dedicated private farm to ensure transactions no matter what. This isn't the first 'business-ish' type coin, but it seems like folks are forgetting that they do take effort.

As an original supporter of the coin, this reality never bothered me because if the coin is successful, this wouldn't be an issue. Seems like folks have less faith than they claim.

[Lovethecoins]

Been here since day one and not leaving we are building something here people looking for quick money left time for everyone else too get there's!!!! Congrats on recent buyers and hold in there "bagholders" the community is great here we will get high together:-)

[MKMiner49er]

The survey results (https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-2HJGSNH/) clearly show the community is in favor of halving and also halving at 150K blocks. Perhaps we need to do that twice down to 105 coin reward but stick there. Keeping the reward at 105 coins after two halvings at 150K block levels we would reduce the coins mined per day from 907K to 226.75K and we would hit 420M coins mined about Nov 2017.

I think if the community would have seen the spreadsheet and plot you posted, the vote would have been different. Although, I think some of us understand the exponential decay of halving, that the general community does not. I have to admit I was in favor of halving once; not every 70 days.

I would like to think as a community supporting the ongoing, long term success of this coin that this is an ongoing discussion and not just over and done, implemented, next!

[PotCoin]

!!!!POTCOIN NETWORK ALERT !!!
NEW WALLETS AND BINARIES ARE OUT!!  https://github.com/potcoin/

THE FORK WILL OCCUR AT BLOCK 280,000!!!

DIGISHIELD IMPLEMENT http://www.digibyte.co/digishield UPDATED LATEST SSL VERSION! AND BLOCK HALVING EVERY 280,000 BLOCK ( roughly every 130 days )

PLEASE TELL EVERY POOL, EXCHANGE and USER THAT THEY NEED TO UPDATE BEFORE BLOCK 280K

Mac QT Wallet 9d4394bd26d047388f0194e736854cab https://github.com/potcoin/potcoin-binaries/raw/master/Potcoin-Qt-v0.8.6.4.dmg

Linux QT Wallet f543e932785cdd8f0f063899d873429b  https://github.com/potcoin/potcoin-binaries/raw/master/potcoin-v0.8.6.4-linux.tar.gz

Windows QT Wallet 93a66470acff8f3bd9806b545cc31680  https://github.com/potcoin/potcoin-binaries/raw/master/potcoin-0.8.6.4-win32-setup.exe

[suremine]

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[ny2cafuse]

Well... the halving debate is over.

[niceman]

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New wallet installed. Happy mining!

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[PotCoin]

OFFICIAL FRIDAY 4.20PM EST BLOG POST - MANDATORY WALLET UPDATE TO 0.8.6.4

http://potcoin.info/index.php/blog/80-block-halving-block-280k

[CartmanSPC]

http://xpool.net:9420/

Updated!

Will work on updating the p2pool subsidy function for the new halving function now...

[PotCoin]

http://xpool.net:9420/

Updated!

Will work on updating the p2pool subsidy function for the new halving function now...

thanks cartman let me know how it goes.