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Author Topic: [ANN][RIC] Riecoin: constellations POW *CPU* HARD FORK successful, world record  (Read 660059 times)
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February 23, 2014, 04:12:40 PM
Last edit: February 23, 2014, 05:21:39 PM by cryptonewbie
 #1701

Some joker is trying to manipulate the price by sitting atop the buy wall with 7btc.  No way I'm buying above 8 at this point.

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February 23, 2014, 06:32:27 PM
 #1702

Some joker is trying to manipulate the price by sitting atop the buy wall with 7btc.  No way I'm buying above 8 at this point.

RIC has been sold in large batches over the last week. Sellers fulfilling buy orders for 5000, 10000RIC all at once- this is what drove the price down. A buy 'wall' of 7btc would be insufficient. If they've placed the order, and they've been paying attention, they're prepared to buy what they've ordered.
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February 23, 2014, 08:23:08 PM
 #1703

This coin seems to have some good advantages compared to Primecoin.  I was also able to get the mining up with xptminer and ypool much easier than other CPU coins (looking at you Maxcoin launch).

Just seems like it needs some marketing help.

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February 23, 2014, 09:23:25 PM
 #1704

This coin seems to have some good advantages compared to Primecoin.  I was also able to get the mining up with xptminer and ypool much easier than other CPU coins (looking at you Maxcoin launch).

Just seems like it needs some marketing help.

It does. A good coin without marketing will be overlooked. Example: Datacoin right now.


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February 23, 2014, 10:12:08 PM
 #1705

any can see, please vote on https://cryptsy.freshdesk.com/support/discussions/topics/4000000268
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February 23, 2014, 10:34:03 PM
 #1706

Yeah this coin hasn't made a splash yet, which is sad because it's a great idea



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dga
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February 24, 2014, 02:44:36 AM
 #1707

Thinking about the pooling issue a bit more, I have a suggestion for how to refine it:

A key danger already identified by the Riecoin creators in using 4-chains as the PoW for pooled mining is the possibility of creating a miner tailored to finding 4 chains.

This isn't theoretical - I've played with a proof-of-concept, and it's both easy and gives a share advantage over a "correct" miner.  I've also run into it on the other side, where by too-aggressively screening out all six candidates, I created mining code that almost never generated a pool share unless it also found a block.  

I don't think it's possible to avoid all bias in this, but a few possibilities make it easier to make a more-correct pooled miner.  The first suggestion also has the advantage of providing a form of variable-difficulty pooled mining that is independently controllable from the Riecoin difficulty itself:

(a)  Minimum divisor requirement for *all* numbers:

   Accept PoW only if:
    (a)  The first four numbers are (MR) prime; and
    (b)  None of the six numbers has a divisor <= N for N=some reasonable size prime.

As an example, the optimized miner jh00 released sieves all six possibilities up to 50,000  (https://github.com/jh000/xptMiner/blob/master/xptMiner/riecoinMiner.cpp ).  A minimum PoW of 50,000 would then exclude any share that has more of a bias towards four-chains than the default ypool miner.

(b)  Generator polynomial matches only

The pattern of primes chosen for Riecoin (p, p+4, p+6, p+10, p+12, p+16) can only occur at certain values.  The simplest polynomial for these is n*210 + 7 and n*210 + 97.  Any miner searching at locations *other* than these is clearly doing something weird, because no valid 6-chain can occur at other locations.  Any non-matching share should be rejected.

  -Dave

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February 24, 2014, 05:04:57 PM
 #1708

Yeah this coin hasn't made a splash yet, which is sad because it's a great idea
That's really sad. I've invested several bitcoins into it and lose 2 btc at the moment - price is dropping more and more. Idea is brilliant, but I see no marketing at all.

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February 24, 2014, 05:15:41 PM
 #1709

Thinking about the pooling issue a bit more, I have a suggestion for how to refine it:

A key danger already identified by the Riecoin creators in using 4-chains as the PoW for pooled mining is the possibility of creating a miner tailored to finding 4 chains.

This isn't theoretical - I've played with a proof-of-concept, and it's both easy and gives a share advantage over a "correct" miner.  I've also run into it on the other side, where by too-aggressively screening out all six candidates, I created mining code that almost never generated a pool share unless it also found a block.  

I don't think it's possible to avoid all bias in this, but a few possibilities make it easier to make a more-correct pooled miner.  The first suggestion also has the advantage of providing a form of variable-difficulty pooled mining that is independently controllable from the Riecoin difficulty itself:

(a)  Minimum divisor requirement for *all* numbers:

   Accept PoW only if:
    (a)  The first four numbers are (MR) prime; and
    (b)  None of the six numbers has a divisor <= N for N=some reasonable size prime.

As an example, the optimized miner jh00 released sieves all six possibilities up to 50,000  (https://github.com/jh000/xptMiner/blob/master/xptMiner/riecoinMiner.cpp ).  A minimum PoW of 50,000 would then exclude any share that has more of a bias towards four-chains than the default ypool miner.

(b)  Generator polynomial matches only

The pattern of primes chosen for Riecoin (p, p+4, p+6, p+10, p+12, p+16) can only occur at certain values.  The simplest polynomial for these is n*210 + 7 and n*210 + 97.  Any miner searching at locations *other* than these is clearly doing something weird, because no valid 6-chain can occur at other locations.  Any non-matching share should be rejected.

  -Dave


I think ypool implements option (a), checking server side for divisors of the last 2 prime candidates.
Regarding (b), actually the only possibility is n*210 + 97 (because n*210 + 7 would be divisible by 7). The RIC client does this check as quick validation to discard bogus blocks before performing RM.
But this is already covered by option (a), since 97 mod 210 is the result of doing a mini-sieve with primes 2,3,5 and 7, hence 210, it's 2*3*5*7 = 210
If you want to add 11 then you have 6 possibilities, not only one anymore.

If you test for divisors up to 50000 then the advantage for having a bias towards 4tuples instead of 6tuples should be negligible.


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northranger79510
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February 24, 2014, 08:44:47 PM
 #1710

Hey guys...check out a great introduction video to Riecoin one of Riecoin's community member made!

https://vimeo.com/87464754

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February 24, 2014, 09:05:49 PM
 #1711

Hey guys...check out a great introduction video to Riecoin one of Riecoin's community member made!

https://vimeo.com/87464754

Hey awesome thanks, glad to have made it for a great coin! Feel free to use wherever, for whatever. I was just coming here to post the vid myself.

Go Riecoin!


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February 25, 2014, 03:20:03 AM
 #1712

Another vote here for RIC / riecoin..

the fact that your not only mining for money but also doing something for mathematics... makes it that much more enjoyable.
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February 25, 2014, 03:44:49 AM
 #1713

Hey guys...check out a great introduction video to Riecoin one of Riecoin's community member made!

https://vimeo.com/87464754

Hey awesome thanks, glad to have made it for a great coin! Feel free to use wherever, for whatever. I was just coming here to post the vid myself.

Go Riecoin!

Excellent video remi! The script really came out nicely. Let's try to get it onto Facebook, Twitter, and the official site next.
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February 25, 2014, 03:52:15 AM
 #1714

A matter of time before this coin goes through the roof!

Please donate to our promotional fund: XqJHdojbecRgQb26LjPEpR4c4YqcAdJ6ih
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February 25, 2014, 07:20:38 AM
 #1715

Hey guys...check out a great introduction video to Riecoin one of Riecoin's community member made!
https://vimeo.com/87464754
You did a great job with that video! You should reupload it on youtube so more people see it.
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February 25, 2014, 09:07:51 AM
 #1716

Hey guys...check out a great introduction video to Riecoin one of Riecoin's community member made!
https://vimeo.com/87464754
You did a great job with that video! You should reupload it on youtube so more people see it.

Agreed, YouTube format would allow easier website embedding, and might just get some hits from people browsing related videos
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February 25, 2014, 03:03:14 PM
 #1717

Hey guys...check out a great introduction video to Riecoin one of Riecoin's community member made!
https://vimeo.com/87464754
You did a great job with that video! You should reupload it on youtube so more people see it.

Agreed, YouTube format would allow easier website embedding, and might just get some hits from people browsing related videos

Makes sense, I'll get it up there today and give it a nice set of tags and CC keywords.
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February 25, 2014, 03:36:31 PM
 #1718

Some test made me feel very dangerous, I like the sense of adventure, also like to challenge new things
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February 25, 2014, 07:50:01 PM
 #1719

Thinking about the pooling issue a bit more, I have a suggestion for how to refine it:

A key danger already identified by the Riecoin creators in using 4-chains as the PoW for pooled mining is the possibility of creating a miner tailored to finding 4 chains.

This isn't theoretical - I've played with a proof-of-concept, and it's both easy and gives a share advantage over a "correct" miner.  I've also run into it on the other side, where by too-aggressively screening out all six candidates, I created mining code that almost never generated a pool share unless it also found a block.  

I don't think it's possible to avoid all bias in this, but a few possibilities make it easier to make a more-correct pooled miner.  The first suggestion also has the advantage of providing a form of variable-difficulty pooled mining that is independently controllable from the Riecoin difficulty itself:

(a)  Minimum divisor requirement for *all* numbers:

   Accept PoW only if:
    (a)  The first four numbers are (MR) prime; and
    (b)  None of the six numbers has a divisor <= N for N=some reasonable size prime.

As an example, the optimized miner jh00 released sieves all six possibilities up to 50,000  (https://github.com/jh000/xptMiner/blob/master/xptMiner/riecoinMiner.cpp ).  A minimum PoW of 50,000 would then exclude any share that has more of a bias towards four-chains than the default ypool miner.

(b)  Generator polynomial matches only

The pattern of primes chosen for Riecoin (p, p+4, p+6, p+10, p+12, p+16) can only occur at certain values.  The simplest polynomial for these is n*210 + 7 and n*210 + 97.  Any miner searching at locations *other* than these is clearly doing something weird, because no valid 6-chain can occur at other locations.  Any non-matching share should be rejected.

  -Dave


Another way around the bias towards 4-tuples, is that the pool should accept any sextuplet of the required form as long as at least ANY 4 of the numbers are prime (instead of the first 4). This way, if you bias towards the first 4 you loose the other combinations. If you bias towards all the combinations, you are at the same time biasing towards the full sextuplets. This would discourage searching for shares instead of actually searching for blocks.
In order to optimize both the miner and the server side checking, I would require only the first p to be prime, as long as at least 3 of the other 5 numbers  (p+4, p+6, p+10, p+12, p+16) are prime too.


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February 25, 2014, 08:13:00 PM
 #1720

Thinking about the pooling issue a bit more, I have a suggestion for how to refine it:

A key danger already identified by the Riecoin creators in using 4-chains as the PoW for pooled mining is the possibility of creating a miner tailored to finding 4 chains.

This isn't theoretical - I've played with a proof-of-concept, and it's both easy and gives a share advantage over a "correct" miner.  I've also run into it on the other side, where by too-aggressively screening out all six candidates, I created mining code that almost never generated a pool share unless it also found a block.  

I don't think it's possible to avoid all bias in this, but a few possibilities make it easier to make a more-correct pooled miner.  The first suggestion also has the advantage of providing a form of variable-difficulty pooled mining that is independently controllable from the Riecoin difficulty itself:

(a)  Minimum divisor requirement for *all* numbers:

   Accept PoW only if:
    (a)  The first four numbers are (MR) prime; and
    (b)  None of the six numbers has a divisor <= N for N=some reasonable size prime.

As an example, the optimized miner jh00 released sieves all six possibilities up to 50,000  (https://github.com/jh000/xptMiner/blob/master/xptMiner/riecoinMiner.cpp ).  A minimum PoW of 50,000 would then exclude any share that has more of a bias towards four-chains than the default ypool miner.

(b)  Generator polynomial matches only

The pattern of primes chosen for Riecoin (p, p+4, p+6, p+10, p+12, p+16) can only occur at certain values.  The simplest polynomial for these is n*210 + 7 and n*210 + 97.  Any miner searching at locations *other* than these is clearly doing something weird, because no valid 6-chain can occur at other locations.  Any non-matching share should be rejected.

  -Dave


Another way around the bias towards 4-tuples, is that the pool should accept any sextuplet of the required form as long as at least ANY 4 of the numbers are prime (instead of the first 4). This way, if you bias towards the first 4 you loose the other combinations. If you bias towards all the combinations, you are at the same time biasing towards the full sextuplets. This would discourage searching for shares instead of actually searching for blocks.
In order to optimize both the miner and the server side checking, I would require only the first p to be prime, as long as at least 3 of the other 5 numbers  (p+4, p+6, p+10, p+12, p+16) are prime too.

But you will then pay a hefty penalty in mining performance for checking all six candidates instead of an early abort strategy when checking a chain of four candidates. Modular exponentiation is a very expensive operation for the size of numbers that we are dealing with.

Electrical Engineering & Computer Science
http://www.eecs.mit.edu/
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