#1 RATINGS and REVIEWS of SPORTS BOOKS thread. Poster input appreciated.

[Gogo ppp]

I have 3 or 4 other reasons for doubting sbobitcoin.com, or at least questioning whether they are legitimate.
Another way to say this is that I am still uneasy about depositing funds there.

At this time, I am choosing not to mention those reasons.

So you have information on Sbobitcoin that shows they aren't legitimate but aren't going to tell the forum?

Not at all.

If I had information that shows they aren't legitimate I wouldn't be wasting time pulling teeth here trying to get some verification.

I have noticed several things I haven't mentioned which make me a bit uneasy about depositing there.
Nothing conclusive.
There could be explanations, just as there could be explanations for the questions I've raised here re: their associations.
It could be awkward at the minute to raise the other issues, so I'm waiting to see if the associations they claim on their website can be verified first.

[Gogo ppp]

Charlie Robert - I posted several questions to you yesterday. You apparently did not see this, so I am reposting:



Charlie Robert - I would like to play at the 3 books which sbobitcoin is an agent for.
But the history of internet gambling is a history in many cases of people having their deposits stolen.

Transparency is needed, the more the better.

What your post does is show me that someone, probaby the owner/co-owner of sbobitcoin.com, has shown up in this thread, and is making the same claims that his website does.
This is not confirmation.


Charlie Robert - "2) "2. SBOBitcoin.com is subsidiary of Ole Group International which is licensed and regulated by First Cagayan, so that means SBOBitcoin.com is licensed by First Cayagan as well.
(http://www.firstcagayan.com/operators.php)"



At the bottom of the site you link, it states:

"Please be informed that the following:

    http://playtongits.com
    www.pai999.net
    www.cnibccasino.com/eng
www.sbobet8.com
    www.12bet12bet.com
    www.i12bet.com
    www.odaiba777.com
    www.bet-mgm.com
    www.evin18.com
    www.578.tw/dev/v1/game_main.php
    www.test.k813.com/dfh/index.aspx
    http://abet99.com /
    www.ft332.net
    www.gvbet.com
    www.stsbet.com
    www.ibcbet888.com
    www.558bet.com
    www.865865.com


ARE NOT in any way connected with Licensees and/or Operators of First Cagayan Leisure & Resort Corporation."



So there are many websites trying to gain credibility by pretending to be licensed.







Perhaps you can help me by shedding light on the following cloudy issues:



1) What company are you with and what is your position there?



2)

Charlie Robert -  "2. SBOBitcoin.com is subsidiary of Ole Group International which is licensed and regulated by First Cagayan, so that means SBOBitcoin.com is licensed by First Cayagan as well.
(http://www.firstcagayan.com/operators.php)

3. Yes definitely, Ole Group International Ltd will stand behind all the subsidiaries like SBOBitcoin.com and cover all the problems would be including financial problem.
Customer trust is no.1 goal for us."



I sought confirmation of this from Ole Group International Ltd .

Why don't they list a phone number on their site?
Why do they only list one email address, and then "restrict" that address so that they are unreachable?

You state that they will stand behind all the subsidiaries.
That does no good if they have made themselves unreachable by phone or even email.




3) "7bet-Agents.com and sbobitcoin.com are another affiliate Division from Ole Group International, in different target market country and currency."



Why does  Ole Group International list 7bet-Agents on their website, but not sbobitcoin.com?



  

[Gogo ppp]

Can anyone here describe how SBObitcoin actually works?   It seems like they actually deposit your funds to a Pinnacle account which you then login to.  So the risk in this case would be SBObitcoin taking money from the account and not paying you out, correct?  New to this agent thing, and just trying to figure out the mechanics and risk involved.

Correct.

[Gogo ppp]

Charlie Robert - "You are most welcome to visit us anytime. There is no hidden agenda here. Exposing our address can be good also bad thing for our business.
Thanks for all yout quiry"

"There is no hidden agenda here."

Then please answer  the questions I've asked you for the 2nd time in Post #171 above, rather than ignore them.

Also, when you enter the thread as a representative of one of the companies involved, it is helpful to state which company you are with and what your position is there.




" Exposing our address can be good also bad thing for our business."

Not sure what this means, but more importantly not sure why you even mention this. Are you taking obfuscation lessons from Peeps Place?

In all of the posting I've done in this thread, I have never asked for the physical address of sbobitcoin.com.

[Gogo ppp]

Since SBOCoinbet [sic] has a nice deal working with two of the biggest books without complaint, common sense says that they want to keep this deal.

"Since SBOCoinbet [sic] has a nice deal working with two of the biggest books without complaint..."

1) They've been in a business about 3 months.

2) You haven't a clue whether there has been a complaint or not.

[Rating Place]

Gogo-You shouldn't play at any book that makes you uncomfortable.

[Gogo ppp]

Gogo- It may be better for you just to start another thread on SBOBitcoin. You are not understanding the definition of an agent and why they want to keep some information private. If you have a case of a no pay or slow pay then post it. Thanks

I understand 100% what an agent is.


"...why they want to keep some information private."

I am asking for clarification and verification of some information which they have stated publicly on their website.
Information which you have included in your cut and paste "review" of this book.

You have made this an elite 'A" book, and continually try to resist any attempts at clarity and further information.
Highly suspicious.


Let Charlie Robert answer the questions I've asked. They are perfectly reasonable.

[Gogo ppp]

Gogo- It may be better for you just to start another thread on SBOBitcoin. You are not understanding the definition of an agent and why they want to keep some information private. You also believe that all of the entities involved have only been in the gambling business for three months. This is very naive. If you have a case of a no pay, slow pay or any other personal experiences, then post it. Thanks

"You also believe that all of the entities involved have only been in the gambling business for three months."

As usual you are misstating my comment, due to lack of intelligence or a desire to cloud the issues I raise, or most likely both.

Sbobitcoin.com has been in business for about 3 months. I think it was clear to all that is what was being stated.

[Gogo ppp]

Does anyone have any information or personal experience with BitcoinLiveBets.com?

EDIT - Looked at their forum here.

They are a joke.

[Rating Place]

Just in case someone missed this.

A player contacted SBR claiming that 8 BTC ($6,700) in winning wagers went unpaid and his account closed. On December 1, BTC Sports Bet contacted the player indicating that he would be paid his balance minus the winnings from the wagers. The wagers in question are:

606 CS Bakersfield -4.5
614 San Fran -2.5
583 Pepperdine +7.5
602 SMU +6

His account was closed on December 1 for "irregular betting patterns":

BTC Sports Bet: "After review by a manager, your account is being closed due to irregular betting patterns, with the recent wagers cancelled."

BTC Sports Bet then paid 27.53 BTC ($23,000) to the player. BTC Sports Bet has refused to give their reasoning for not paying the four winning bets. SBR has confirmed that the bets were in-line with the market at the time of being placed and that the bets were not past-posted.

SBR has attempted numerous times to discuss the complaint either online or via telephone. BTC Sports Bet first stuck with a generic line of not discussing details with third parties. At this time, SBR instructed the player to again contact BTC Sports Bet and carbon copy the SBR resolution team on the email. BTC Sports Bet still refused to speak with the player. After repeated follow-ups from SBR, BTC Sports Bet replied with the following:

BTC Sports Bet: "We pay the largest wagers of any bitcoin sportsbook, literally thousands of BTC per month, and have since 2011. We will not discuss the matter with you as is stated policy, but your facts are not correct about the user and the wagers. We are confident that we have, and continue to earn the trust of our thousands of users, as noted by the numerous positive reviews, including well-known third parties such as the OSGA."

SBR followed up indicating BTC Sports Bet have also refused to explain to the player himself what specifically about his wagers violated their rules and could possibly be grounds for not being paid.

One of the oldest and most sacred rules sportsbooks must follow is "you book the bet, you pay the bet". The wagers in question were not erroneous lines nor past-posted. No evidence was offered to the player or SBR attempting to justify not paying the $6,700 in winnings.

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/sbr-news/btcsportsbet-bitcoin-sportsbook-steals-6-700-winnings-6082/

[Micon]

BitBook   A
Nitrogensports   A
Cloudbet   A

agreed with those being my top 3 at this time.  I don't bet on sports very much (compared to my poker play) but I like to keep tabs on the industry. 

can't quite figure out why the op rated SBObitcoin top dog.   after a quick look around, a bunch of things scare me.  "we use same conversion for deposit and withdraw to bitcoin" seems to be a fundamental flaw.  that coupled with the fact they use pinnacle sports somehow makes me quite likely to never deposit even something small to try it out.  Sounds like many layers of shenanigans.  would love to hear the OP's take on the site.  I saw they have pokers too.

[Rating Place]

.

BitBook   A
Nitrogensports   A
Cloudbet   A

agreed with those being my top 3 at this time.  I don't bet on sports very much (compared to my poker play) but I like to keep tabs on the industry. 

can't quite figure out why the op rated SBObitcoin top dog.   after a quick look around, a bunch of things scare me.  "we use same conversion for deposit and withdraw to bitcoin" seems to be a fundamental flaw.  that coupled with the fact they use pinnacle sports somehow makes me quite likely to never deposit even something small to try it out.  Sounds like many layers of shenanigans.  would love to hear the OP's take on the site.  I saw they have pokers too.

Pinnacle is the best site for me since the hold is so low at -105. I also rated it high since the limits at Pinnacle are the highest. I just deposited bitcoins with SBOCoinbet and they put the money in my account although it was in Hong Kong dollars. It is a little confusing since 1 BTC = 6000 in my account. I also like the 24/7 on line chat.

If you and others feel that SBOBitcoin should be downgraded, then the grade with be changed. Your thoughts are valid

[FUR11]

  "we use same conversion for deposit and withdraw to bitcoin" seems to be a fundamental flaw. 

My assumption of how it works is that you "sell" your bitcoins to them when you deposit and then "buy" bitcoins from them when you withdraw.  You basically place bets through them, not with them.  I could be mistaken though.

[Rating Place]

  "we use same conversion for deposit and withdraw to bitcoin" seems to be a fundamental flaw. 

My assumption of how it works is that you "sell" your bitcoins to them when you deposit and then "buy" bitcoins from them when you withdraw.  You basically place bets through them, not with them.  I could be mistaken though.

correct

[CoinBet]

I also talked with Coinbet on the phone. I'm not sure if he wants me to mention his name so I'll keep that out. He sounded like a great guy that understands the business. I did not ask him for anything to advertise and neither of us discussed money.

Just want to point out there's more than just one of us working here - CoinBet is not a single person Your comments are appreciated nonetheless though.. Thanks!

[FUR11]

Can anyone here describe how SBObitcoin actually works?   It seems like they actually deposit your funds to a Pinnacle account which you then login to.  So the risk in this case would be SBObitcoin taking money from the account and not paying you out, correct?  New to this agent thing, and just trying to figure out the mechanics and risk involved.

You are 100% correct.

What I still do not get is whether they open a Pinny account with whatever personal info. you provide them (name, email, phone) or they open it with some ghost name?  I've asked them this question several times, but they seem unable to answer it directly.  Might be a language issue...I have no idea.

The smart way to do it would be to just book all of the bets yourself and then have one pinny account where you can lay off the overlay just before the games start. 

[Gogo ppp]

BitBook   A
Nitrogensports   A
Cloudbet   A

agreed with those being my top 3 at this time.  I don't bet on sports very much (compared to my poker play) but I like to keep tabs on the industry.  

can't quite figure out why the op rated SBObitcoin top dog.   after a quick look around, a bunch of things scare me.  "we use same conversion for deposit and withdraw to bitcoin" seems to be a fundamental flaw.  that coupled with the fact they use pinnacle sports somehow makes me quite likely to never deposit even something small to try it out.  Sounds like many layers of shenanigans.  would love to hear the OP's take on the site.  I saw they have pokers too.

RTFT!


It's obvious you looked at the first page or a few pages and skipped most of it.

You skipped over the 2nd half of the thread where the majority of the posts were  discussing SBObitcoin.com beginning with post #83.

[Rating Place]

Can anyone here describe how SBObitcoin actually works?   It seems like they actually deposit your funds to a Pinnacle account which you then login to.  So the risk in this case would be SBObitcoin taking money from the account and not paying you out, correct?  New to this agent thing, and just trying to figure out the mechanics and risk involved.

You are 100% correct.

What I still do not get is whether they open a Pinny account with whatever personal info. you provide them (name, email, phone) or they open it with some ghost name?  I've asked them this question several times, but they seem unable to answer it directly.  Might be a language issue...I have no idea.

You can open your SBOBitcoin account with a ghost name. SBOCoinbet with then give you an account number. It's easy to do with live chat.

[FUR11]

The smart way to do it would be to just book all of the bets yourself and then have one pinny account where you can lay off the overlay just before the games start. 

Say what?  I'm not a bookie.  Just a player trying to use Pinnacle.

Let's say you have 100 users who want to bet on miami-okc.  60 of them want to bet a total of 10k on miami.  40 of them want to bet a total of 9k on okc.  Instead of making 100 individual bets (where pinny is making the juice), it's smarter to 'book' that 9k of action yourself (keeping the juice) and just bet the excess 1k on okc at pinny to make everything square.  Of course that carries risks (line moves, max limits, ect). 

That being said I have no idea how sbo does it.  It's entirely possible they just create accounts for every user. 

[Rating Place]

The smart way to do it would be to just book all of the bets yourself and then have one pinny account where you can lay off the overlay just before the games start.  

Say what?  I'm not a bookie.  Just a player trying to use Pinnacle.

Let's say you have 100 users who want to bet on miami-okc.  60 of them want to bet a total of 10k on miami.  40 of them want to bet a total of 9k on okc.  Instead of making 100 individual bets (where pinny is making the juice), it's smarter to 'book' that 9k of action yourself (keeping the juice) and just bet the excess 1k on okc at pinny to make everything square.  Of course that carries risks (line moves, max limits, ect).  

That being said I have no idea how sbo does it.  It's entirely possible they just create accounts for every user.  

I'm not sure I fully understand the question so I may be answering the wrong question. SBOBitcoin is not a book. All they do is set you up with an account at PinnacleSports, 'SBOBET or IBCBET. You can get an account at 2 of the books or all three if you would like. Then you are betting directly with the book. SBOBitcoin will give you an account number for the book that you are playing at.

Many sports books lay off money when they are getting too much action on one side. They may be able to profit by getting a better number. One problem occurs is if Book A has a line of +4.5. They are getting all action at +4.5. The other books have the line at 4 and 3.5. Book A isn't going to be able to lay off that action at +4.5. They can by buying points but then they take a loss. The normal price to buy a 1/2 point is 10 cents. In the NFL they normally charge 20 cents to move on/off 3 and between 10 and 20 cents to move off/on 7.

The same can be done with the ML in any sport. You may be able to lay off the action and make money but you can also lose depending on the line you are using and the best available lines at other books.