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Author Topic: [ANN][MINT] Mintcoin (POS) (5%) - New Wallet v2.0.2 released 3/1/16  (Read 1201642 times)
deadmanwalking
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April 02, 2014, 07:14:59 PM
 #11921

Wow, some easy targets here. Guys stop letting people antagonize you, and let's get focused back on Mint please.

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April 02, 2014, 07:17:35 PM
 #11922

How about we all just chill out and wait a little longer for a response from the dev and stop speculating.

They've already responded.
paspi
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April 02, 2014, 07:19:31 PM
 #11923

The Blackcoin dev rat4 who is a talented individual has found an attack which applies to Mintcoin (due to it being pow/pos hybrid that has low difficulty for pow component).

Please read it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551861.0

Note the most recent posts where the attack has been executed guys.

Yes, do add to this:

We have tested the hypothesis we found and managed to succesfully stop PoS from being accepted for over one hour on the MintCoin blockchain.
Basicly this means anyone could turn MintCoin into a PoW-only coin for the foreseeable future and due to the low hashrate on the coin a 51% attack becomes really easy with all the known issues that that brings.


We have immediatly contacted the mintcoin devs, long before rat4 posted it in the topic quoted above. I am still waiting for a confirmation that they are fixing the issue at hand.

I'm investigating the issue. I'm not a dev of mintcoin, but I believe in this community and I try to address issues that I can fix in the code and send a patch to devs as much as I can. (Let it be network connection issues that troubled v1.0, or high CPU usage of v1.4, there were one or two more minor fixes I submitted, but I can't remember now:) )

I saw the devs responded to the issue here, but I don't know when they'll provide a fix (or if they believe there's a problem that need to be fixed -- or if there's really a problem). They usually prefer to do their development behind the scenes, and release their changes in a new version.

I'll investigate the issue anyway for my own curiosity. I would like to provide a patch, but it seems like a security issue in the core, so it's not one person's job to fix it. More eyes are needed to validate any changes to make sure the changes indeed fix the problem and don't introduce new flaws. (In fact not only validation, but also code/idea contributions would be needed).

I believe the devs are trying to understand the issue and fix it. Still, if enough people are interested, we may create a fork on github and try to create a patch there, which can later be merged into the main client codebase when it's ready. I would volunteer for creating a patch for this if there are enough people who will contribute -- by reviewing changes, committing changes, or discussing security issues. But it has to be a community effort, I won't dare to change core components by myself and then submit an unreviewed patch to the devs -- it would be risky.

So what are your thoughts? Anyone is interested in working on this?

PS: I haven't read entire https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551861.0 yet; and I might have missed some posts here if anyone proposed a solution. I'm yet trying to digest the issue introduced in that topic and the blockchain explorer.

MINT: MdPQhsGufjm5AXYkHebbnF2A155xDqVfK7
stormia
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April 02, 2014, 07:20:24 PM
 #11924

How about we all just chill out and wait a little longer for a response from the dev and stop speculating.

They've already responded.

I know, and they said they were looking into it/working on it. My point to everybody is, lets be patient and wait for the next update.

stormia
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April 02, 2014, 07:21:56 PM
 #11925

The Blackcoin dev rat4 who is a talented individual has found an attack which applies to Mintcoin (due to it being pow/pos hybrid that has low difficulty for pow component).

Please read it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551861.0

Note the most recent posts where the attack has been executed guys.

Yes, do add to this:

We have tested the hypothesis we found and managed to succesfully stop PoS from being accepted for over one hour on the MintCoin blockchain.
Basicly this means anyone could turn MintCoin into a PoW-only coin for the foreseeable future and due to the low hashrate on the coin a 51% attack becomes really easy with all the known issues that that brings.


We have immediatly contacted the mintcoin devs, long before rat4 posted it in the topic quoted above. I am still waiting for a confirmation that they are fixing the issue at hand.

I'm investigating the issue. I'm not a dev of mintcoin, but I believe in this community and I try to address issues that I can fix in the code and send a patch to devs as much as I can. (Let it be network connection issues that troubled v1.0, or high CPU usage of v1.4, there were one or two more minor fixes I submitted, but I can't remember now:) )

I saw the devs responded to the issue here, but I don't know when they'll provide a fix (or if they believe there's a problem that need to be fixed -- or if there's really a problem). They usually prefer to do their development behind the scenes, and release their changes in a new version.

I'll investigate the issue anyway for my own curiosity. I would like to provide a patch, but it seems like a security issue in the core, so it's not one person's job to fix it. More eyes are needed to validate any changes to make sure the changes indeed fix the problem and don't introduce new flaws. (In fact not only validation, but also code/idea contributions would be needed).

I believe the devs are trying to understand the issue and fix it. Still, if enough people are interested, we may create a fork on github and try to create a patch there, which can later be merged into the main client codebase when it's ready. I would volunteer for creating a patch for this if there are enough people who will contribute -- by reviewing changes, committing changes, or discussing security issues. But it has to be a community effort, I won't dare to change core components by myself and then submit an unreviewed patch to the devs -- it would be risky.

So what are your thoughts? Anyone is interested in working on this?

PS: I haven't read entire https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551861.0 yet; and I might have missed some posts here if anyone proposed a solution. I'm yet trying to digest the issue introduced in that topic and the blockchain explorer.

+1. Thank you paspi.

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April 02, 2014, 07:22:30 PM
 #11926

Just thought
If there is a bug, must it be the dev that fixes it?
Since its open source, couldnt just any one with the skills fix it?
Rat4 for example, who says there is an easy fix. He claims he only want to help mint, then why cant he just fix it? (if there are something to fix in the first place..)

Haha. Half of your community are bag holders in denial who won't even admit there is a problem so I am hoping Rat4 doesn't touch it. Especially after the rubbish he has had to put up with today.
mr_random why are you here, doing exactly what you just described: "such blatant FUD attempts." All the information about the situation that needs to be shared here has already been shared, you are doing nothing but trolling as usual.

You have always been a troll on this thread, nobody is going to listen to you no matter what you say. Leave the discussion to reputable and respectable members of the blackcoin community.

So far a new person reading this topic will see that 50% of the regular posters are actually liars if they read the last few pages and then check the blockchain explorer to see the attack in black and white.

I used to be a big MINT supporter, feel free to check my post history I was here in the early days.
deadmanwalking
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April 02, 2014, 07:23:17 PM
 #11927

Thanks paspi

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mr_random
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April 02, 2014, 07:25:23 PM
 #11928

The Blackcoin dev rat4 who is a talented individual has found an attack which applies to Mintcoin (due to it being pow/pos hybrid that has low difficulty for pow component).

Please read it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551861.0

Note the most recent posts where the attack has been executed guys.

Yes, do add to this:

We have tested the hypothesis we found and managed to succesfully stop PoS from being accepted for over one hour on the MintCoin blockchain.
Basicly this means anyone could turn MintCoin into a PoW-only coin for the foreseeable future and due to the low hashrate on the coin a 51% attack becomes really easy with all the known issues that that brings.


We have immediatly contacted the mintcoin devs, long before rat4 posted it in the topic quoted above. I am still waiting for a confirmation that they are fixing the issue at hand.

I'm investigating the issue. I'm not a dev of mintcoin, but I believe in this community and I try to address issues that I can fix in the code and send a patch to devs as much as I can. (Let it be network connection issues that troubled v1.0, or high CPU usage of v1.4, there were one or two more minor fixes I submitted, but I can't remember now:) )

I saw the devs responded to the issue here, but I don't know when they'll provide a fix (or if they believe there's a problem that need to be fixed -- or if there's really a problem). They usually prefer to do their development behind the scenes, and release their changes in a new version.

I'll investigate the issue anyway for my own curiosity. I would like to provide a patch, but it seems like a security issue in the core, so it's not one person's job to fix it. More eyes are needed to validate any changes to make sure the changes indeed fix the problem and don't introduce new flaws. (In fact not only validation, but also code/idea contributions would be needed).

I believe the devs are trying to understand the issue and fix it. Still, if enough people are interested, we may create a fork on github and try to create a patch there, which can later be merged into the main client codebase when it's ready. I would volunteer for creating a patch for this if there are enough people who will contribute -- by reviewing changes, committing changes, or discussing security issues. But it has to be a community effort, I won't dare to change core components by myself and then submit an unreviewed patch to the devs -- it would be risky.

So what are your thoughts? Anyone is interested in working on this?

PS: I haven't read entire https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551861.0 yet; and I might have missed some posts here if anyone proposed a solution. I'm yet trying to digest the issue introduced in that topic and the blockchain explorer.

Nice post. The Mintcoin community is lucky to have you. You actually sound more knowledgeable than the MINT dev himself  Cheesy

However I think it's best that Soepkip and Rat4 leave this one to you guys to try and fix this mess. They've gotten mostly abuse for their work here. Talk about a thankless task.
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April 02, 2014, 07:26:22 PM
 #11929

Thanks paspi

Thanks paspi.
mgburks77
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April 02, 2014, 07:27:24 PM
 #11930

How about we all just chill out and wait a little longer for a response from the dev and stop speculating.

They've already responded.

I know, and they said they were looking into it/working on it. My point to everybody is, lets be patient and wait for the next update.

They said they would look into if it becomes an issue, actually



All I know is that the time for all this talk is over. they say they can kill the coin. I'll believe it when I see it. until then, well, talk is cheap.

Believe me, if they could kill MINT they would have. They can't do it so they are left with trolling.
stormia
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April 02, 2014, 07:28:53 PM
 #11931

Just thought
If there is a bug, must it be the dev that fixes it?
Since its open source, couldnt just any one with the skills fix it?
Rat4 for example, who says there is an easy fix. He claims he only want to help mint, then why cant he just fix it? (if there are something to fix in the first place..)

Haha. Half of your community are bag holders in denial who won't even admit there is a problem so I am hoping Rat4 doesn't touch it. Especially after the rubbish he has had to put up with today.
mr_random why are you here, doing exactly what you just described: "such blatant FUD attempts." All the information about the situation that needs to be shared here has already been shared, you are doing nothing but trolling as usual.

You have always been a troll on this thread, nobody is going to listen to you no matter what you say. Leave the discussion to reputable and respectable members of the blackcoin community.

So far a new person reading this topic will see that 50% of the regular posters are actually liars if they read the last few pages and then check the blockchain explorer to see the attack in black and white.

I used to be a big MINT supporter, feel free to check my post history I was here in the early days.

I would recommend people look through your post history on here as well. You went sour on Mint a long time ago, and have since been back only to hurt the community. Please, stop posting here and aggravating the problem. "50% of the regular posters are actually liars" is complete BS and you know it. You are refering to 2 or 3 different people's comments at most and a few individuals do not represent the majority of the community. Also do not mix up being confused with lying.

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April 02, 2014, 07:31:23 PM
 #11932

I've just noticed something while going over the block chain.

First of all, the attack was really just from 203231 to 203405 before it started to be interrupted by even more PoS blocks:
http://mintcoin-explorer.info/chain/MintCoin?hi=203233&count=50
http://mintcoin-explorer.info/chain/MintCoin?hi=203433&count=50


Secondly, even within this period, there are still some PoS blocks that occur:
http://i.imgur.com/LydCerH.png

Most importantly of all. Through the ENTIRE attack period, not a single transaction was confirmed by one of the PoW blocks (aside from the PoW blocks producing their 1 MINT). The only transaction confirmations were done by the few PoS blocks which interrupted. How is this possible? There are way, way more PoW blocks, but none of them confirmed transactions over an entire hour? Is that because PoW blocks cannot confirm transaction during this "attack"? If so, then this "attack" cannot be used to double spend or do any real damage. Right?

So it's even worse than we thought. The entire network was frozen with no confirmations, and that was only carried out by the first stage of the attack.

Game over.

No it's even better than we thought!  If you investigate the block chain and understand how POW/POS works you will realize that Mintcoin has just survived the worst possible attack. Mintcoin is anti-fragile even more so than bitcoin. You clearly don't understand what anti-fragile means and I certainly wouldn't trust any of the FUD that your smearing with a grain of salt.
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April 02, 2014, 07:34:06 PM
 #11933

I've just noticed something while going over the block chain.

First of all, the attack was really just from 203231 to 203405 before it started to be interrupted by even more PoS blocks:
http://mintcoin-explorer.info/chain/MintCoin?hi=203233&count=50
http://mintcoin-explorer.info/chain/MintCoin?hi=203433&count=50


Secondly, even within this period, there are still some PoS blocks that occur:
http://i.imgur.com/LydCerH.png

Most importantly of all. Through the ENTIRE attack period, not a single transaction was confirmed by one of the PoW blocks (aside from the PoW blocks producing their 1 MINT). The only transaction confirmations were done by the few PoS blocks which interrupted. How is this possible? There are way, way more PoW blocks, but none of them confirmed transactions over an entire hour? Is that because PoW blocks cannot confirm transaction during this "attack"? If so, then this "attack" cannot be used to double spend or do any real damage. Right?

So it's even worse than we thought. The entire network was frozen with no confirmations, and that was only carried out by the first stage of the attack.

Game over.

No it's even better than we thought!  If you investigate the block chain and understand how POW/POS works you will realize that Mintcoin has just survived the worst possible attack possible. Mintcoin is anti-fragile even more so than bitcoin. If you don't understand what anti-fragile means then I wouldn't trust any FUD that your smearing with a grain of salt.

That's a refreshing perspective, thanks!

I suspected as much. I seriously doubt they would have failed to destroy mint if it were at all possible.
deadmanwalking
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April 02, 2014, 07:35:22 PM
 #11934

How about we all just chill out and wait a little longer for a response from the dev and stop speculating.

They've already responded.

I know, and they said they were looking into it/working on it. My point to everybody is, lets be patient and wait for the next update.

They said they would look into if it becomes an issue, actually



All I know is that the time for all this talk is over. they say they can kill the coin. I'll believe it when I see it. until then, well, talk is cheap.

Believe me, if they could kill MINT they would have. They can't do it so they are left with trolling.

There is probably validity to your statement Mg.

Soepkip and others post on this thread and say they are trying to help. However if one looks at the posts outside of this thread, you will see them openly mocking Mint.

Still, I think we should just ignore them while our dev takes a look and makes a statement. Having Paspi look into it is a big plus too as he has already fixed a minor bug for our community.

171XPWLy36oDmQfMdnPYWHfQgkfRoYGjHd
choppy123
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April 02, 2014, 07:35:57 PM
 #11935

Just thought
If there is a bug, must it be the dev that fixes it?
Since its open source, couldnt just any one with the skills fix it?
Rat4 for example, who says there is an easy fix. He claims he only want to help mint, then why cant he just fix it? (if there are something to fix in the first place..)

Haha. Half of your community are bag holders in denial who won't even admit there is a problem so I am hoping Rat4 doesn't touch it. Especially after the rubbish he has had to put up with today.

ANTIFRAGILE
Acidyo
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April 02, 2014, 07:37:57 PM
 #11936

You guys here make more Blackcoin PR as you think here.

All those bashing makes you look like being jealous, focus should be on MINT not on BC here or not?



Agree completely. Like they say "all press is good press". Too many trolls lately talking about random coins in other coins ann threads.

choppy123
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April 02, 2014, 07:38:05 PM
 #11937

The Blackcoin dev rat4 who is a talented individual has found an attack which applies to Mintcoin (due to it being pow/pos hybrid that has low difficulty for pow component).

Please read it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551861.0

Note the most recent posts where the attack has been executed guys.

Yes, do add to this:

We have tested the hypothesis we found and managed to succesfully stop PoS from being accepted for over one hour on the MintCoin blockchain.
Basicly this means anyone could turn MintCoin into a PoW-only coin for the foreseeable future and due to the low hashrate on the coin a 51% attack becomes really easy with all the known issues that that brings.


We have immediatly contacted the mintcoin devs, long before rat4 posted it in the topic quoted above. I am still waiting for a confirmation that they are fixing the issue at hand.

I'm investigating the issue. I'm not a dev of mintcoin, but I believe in this community and I try to address issues that I can fix in the code and send a patch to devs as much as I can. (Let it be network connection issues that troubled v1.0, or high CPU usage of v1.4, there were one or two more minor fixes I submitted, but I can't remember now:) )

I saw the devs responded to the issue here, but I don't know when they'll provide a fix (or if they believe there's a problem that need to be fixed -- or if there's really a problem). They usually prefer to do their development behind the scenes, and release their changes in a new version.

I'll investigate the issue anyway for my own curiosity. I would like to provide a patch, but it seems like a security issue in the core, so it's not one person's job to fix it. More eyes are needed to validate any changes to make sure the changes indeed fix the problem and don't introduce new flaws. (In fact not only validation, but also code/idea contributions would be needed).

I believe the devs are trying to understand the issue and fix it. Still, if enough people are interested, we may create a fork on github and try to create a patch there, which can later be merged into the main client codebase when it's ready. I would volunteer for creating a patch for this if there are enough people who will contribute -- by reviewing changes, committing changes, or discussing security issues. But it has to be a community effort, I won't dare to change core components by myself and then submit an unreviewed patch to the devs -- it would be risky.

So what are your thoughts? Anyone is interested in working on this?

PS: I haven't read entire https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=551861.0 yet; and I might have missed some posts here if anyone proposed a solution. I'm yet trying to digest the issue introduced in that topic and the blockchain explorer.

Nice post. The Mintcoin community is lucky to have you. You actually sound more knowledgeable than the MINT dev himself  Cheesy

However I think it's best that Soepkip and Rat4 leave this one to you guys to try and fix this mess. They've gotten mostly abuse for their work here. Talk about a thankless task.

A N T I F R A G I L E
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April 02, 2014, 07:38:13 PM
 #11938

How about we all just chill out and wait a little longer for a response from the dev and stop speculating.

They've already responded.

I know, and they said they were looking into it/working on it. My point to everybody is, lets be patient and wait for the next update.

They said they would look into if it becomes an issue, actually



All I know is that the time for all this talk is over. they say they can kill the coin. I'll believe it when I see it. until then, well, talk is cheap.

Believe me, if they could kill MINT they would have. They can't do it so they are left with trolling.

There is probably validity to your statement Mg.

Soepkip and others post on this thread and say they are trying to help. However if one looks at the posts outside of this thread, you will see them openly mocking Mint.

Still, I think we should just ignore them while our dev takes a look and makes a statement. Having Paspi look into it is a big plus too as he has already fixed a minor bug for our community.

I feel there is absolutely no reason not to have full confidence in the devteam. Yes, Paspi is a godsend as well. Perhaps he will help with the android wallet.

That's why these guys are running interference, once we develop that android wallet it will be MINT on high. They know it
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April 02, 2014, 07:38:38 PM
 #11939

I've just noticed something while going over the block chain.

First of all, the attack was really just from 203231 to 203405 before it started to be interrupted by even more PoS blocks:
http://mintcoin-explorer.info/chain/MintCoin?hi=203233&count=50
http://mintcoin-explorer.info/chain/MintCoin?hi=203433&count=50


Secondly, even within this period, there are still some PoS blocks that occur:
http://i.imgur.com/LydCerH.png

Most importantly of all. Through the ENTIRE attack period, not a single transaction was confirmed by one of the PoW blocks (aside from the PoW blocks producing their 1 MINT). The only transaction confirmations were done by the few PoS blocks which interrupted. How is this possible? There are way, way more PoW blocks, but none of them confirmed transactions over an entire hour? Is that because PoW blocks cannot confirm transaction during this "attack"? If so, then this "attack" cannot be used to double spend or do any real damage. Right?

So it's even worse than we thought. The entire network was frozen with no confirmations, and that was only carried out by the first stage of the attack.

Game over.

No it's even better than we thought!  If you investigate the block chain and understand how POW/POS works you will realize that Mintcoin has just survived the worst possible attack possible. Mintcoin is anti-fragile even more so than bitcoin. If you don't understand what anti-fragile means then I wouldn't trust any FUD that your smearing with a grain of salt.

Choppy, can you explain this? Saying something is "anti-fragile" isn't the same as writing a technical explanation as to why, and will only invite further attacks.

171XPWLy36oDmQfMdnPYWHfQgkfRoYGjHd
morituri13
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April 02, 2014, 07:41:49 PM
 #11940

Some points about the situation:
A.) The attack is real.
B.) Just because they didn't kill the coin, doesn't mean they can't. It just means they didn't.
C.) In the BC multipool plan they talk about "Ethical Buying" so as not to damage other alt coins. BC isn't attacking. They quietly went to the dev first.
D.) This doesn't mean you need to dump Mint. It just means the devs have some work to do.

Here's what should happen next:
A.) Hold your Mint.
B.) Thank the BC devs.
C.) Ask for updates from Mint devs.
D.) Stop freaking out.
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