[ActiveMining] Official Shareholder Discussion Thread [Moderated]

[bitdog101]

Just to get this clear, this is what has happened over the last couple of weeks:

1) Ukyo's share get sold on CT, no one else was allowed to trade with their shares.
2) Ken starts refunding people and replying to people who want refunds on the VMC thread
3) No one can have their divs/shares/info because of some investigation.
4) We abandon (again) our current plan for manufacturing/deploying our own ASICS
5) Shareholders money/btc was being traded/kept on GOX, only told after GOX goes bang.

Can someone please explain to me how this is not a scam?

edit: spelling

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[Vigil]

Ummm it was not said that we couldn't afford the 55nm chip, It was scrapped because it turned out to not be as profitable as first thought / calculated that is why the 55nm chip was scrapped it had nothing to do with couldn't afford it, but i guess if he went ahead with the non-profitable chip anyways and did it then you would be downing him for that one too huh Jo? Give the man some slack and at least give him a Kudos for scrapping a project that he felt would have been a waste of money and deciding now to go forward with it and wasting the time and money just to get a chip out the door that would have just ended up a loss



I for one Give Ken Kudos for having the insight to drop the project and instead moving FULL STEAM AHEAD with the FULL custom 28nm project instead now that there is only one project on the table maybe ken will have a lil more time to getting trading active along with maybe providing a lil more info into what goes on a lil more behind the scenes at ActM and VMC.

But isn't that what many of us were saying on here and in the forums and BG and You, and others were saying "Yes, it will be profitable"? It was obvious to even those who did not calculate anything that something was amiss. There never were real plans for the 55nm, it was all vaporware. Ken said we had already taped-out and started production process - no we didn't. That was a lie. You don't buy an IP and claim to be in production of a chip repeatedly without first calculating profitability.

How are we now going to fund a 28nm?

[VinceSamios]

About censorship in this thread:

Most people these days probably haven't noticed the tenacity of one very sad troll. This person posts literally 1000 posts in a single day from multiple accounts and there are a bunch of us deleting those posts as soon as possible. It is not unusual for there to be 50 posts per minute - I'm sure the other guys modding this thread will back me up on this.

So - if your post gets deleted and you are not a troll, it's nothing personal, it is unintentional, please re-post.

I've know I've personally accidentally deleted a few posts from legit users, hell even some from the mod team, it's indiscriminate by accident.

The mod team are supportive of genuine investors with genuine criticisms. There is a low tolerance for trolling, but we are not suppressing negative posts. Hell we're even posting some ourselves. This thread appears far more positive than previous threads because the troll element has been smashed - removing the flood of negativity.

Just wanted to make you all aware of that, and if anyone has a problem with a specific post being deleted please PM me.

[VinceSamios]

Ummm it was not said that we couldn't afford the 55nm chip, It was scrapped because it turned out to not be as profitable as first thought / calculated that is why the 55nm chip was scrapped it had nothing to do with couldn't afford it, but i guess if he went ahead with the non-profitable chip anyways and did it then you would be downing him for that one too huh Jo? Give the man some slack and at least give him a Kudos for scrapping a project that he felt would have been a waste of money and deciding now to go forward with it and wasting the time and money just to get a chip out the door that would have just ended up a loss

I for one Give Ken Kudos for having the insight to drop the project and instead moving FULL STEAM AHEAD with the FULL custom 28nm project instead now that there is only one project on the table maybe ken will have a lil more time to getting trading active along with maybe providing a lil more info into what goes on a lil more behind the scenes at ActM and VMC.

My problem with the profitability argument is that profitability comes from a low $/gh which we have (around $1 on PCB, 1/3rd the competition) and from selling chips. The sale of chips seems to be completely ignored.

To be fair the w/GH on the 55nm was not low enough to get high sales, so maybe the 28nm is more important long term, but I'm struggling to see how 55nm wouldn't be profitable.

[drawingthesun]

Ken must immediately tell us how much this 28nm is costing us. We originally raised $1,000,000 for the eASIC and got 1000 bitcoin back from Avalon.

So the 1,000,000 is likely gone and I believe most of the 1000 was used to buy people's ASIC. Add into the mix funds missing because of MtGox I doubt we have any money left.

Also it's very well known the minmum cost for a custom 28nm is 2 - 3 million with the average price being 5 - 7 million. So we have no money left but somehow can afford an ASIC far more expensive that we could have afforded last year.

Ken, you need to transparent now and tell us how this is possible. Perhaps we can speak to one of the engineers?

[bitdog101]

Ken, whose board is in those pictures? What chips are on that board?

This is a board that our engineer designed and those are BFL Bitfury chips.  He will be designing a reference board for our DIY for our 55nm and 28nm chips like this one.
Reply

Does anyone remember this still? Only saying it was bitfury chips after the fact? How does a CEO get this information wrong?

Pre-Order 55nm Chips Shipping April 17,2014

So was this just a lie?

Ken, any updates on Intellihash? Will this be ready to go when we receive our chips in April?

I am hoping to work on it more between now and April.  I have been busy on the 55nm deal.
Reply

Can someone explain to me how someone can be working on a deal so hard that everything else takes a back seat and then 2 weeks later decides its a no-go esp after promising sales a week later?

Weekly Update 2/12/2014

On the 55nm project:

This week has had a number of developments, our project manager is working on wrapping up all the detail of our 55nm project.  We are expecting to receive our first 55nm wafers on April 10th, with next batch due on April 29th, May 5th and May 8th for a total of ~104 wafers.  It will take 1-2 weeks to have the chips packaged and then shipped to our board manufacturers.  We will be selling and mining with these chips and boards, depending on what makes the most since at the time.  The tape-out was done on Peoples ASIC account for a shuttle run of 50 prototype chips, we have canceled the shuttle run and changed to a full production run of the chips on VMC own account.  Peoples ASIC IP has been signed over to VMC and the FAB has all the legal paper work to start VMC's production run of wafers.

So if there is a full production run, 2 weeks ago. Confirmed by kslaughter. How can it be canceled? And why would it be?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1707;sa=showPosts;start=20

Can everyone please look and see that the Ken starts chatting about refunds only after Ukyo's shares got sold?

[JimmyJazz]

I think we all need to now get our head out our arses and make Ken accountable. There will be no 28 and this is not going to end well.

[sparky999]

Ken has not shown proof of anything, has failed to deliver on every single deadline he set and has outright lied to shareholders on multiple occasions. It is becoming increasingly difficult to understand how this doesn't constitute fraud.

I will be looking into filing a class action law suit  this week.

@ken this is your final chance to come clean about everything that has happened and I mean everything otherwise you will be looking down the barrel of criminal and civil actions. Lying to shareholders is fraud your posting history provides clear evidence of your lies.  I expect a lengthy response to be posted in this thread within the next 72 hours or I will instruct my lawyer to begin proceedings.

[Nosniw]

I am sorry that the 55nm news came from the media; however, I was waiting to announce that with the good news.

So what is that 'good news'?

[Flashman]

Ken, why did you have your investors coins on Mt. Gox?

I would imagine it was an amount commensurate with recurring expenses and on gox because otherwise everyone would have yelled at him for taking a "10% loss" selling them elsewhere. (Considering the historical pre February price trends)

Everyone can play "Captain Hindsight" now, and say they saw that coming, but with the mandate to increase shareholder value, Ken could not go on gut feeling and rumor but had to have a cast iron, solid, documentable, factual reason not to trade on gox. By the time those appeared gox was locked up.

[Subcide]

Well based on these recent developments I'm definitely holding onto my shares.  Looking forward to some good news on wednesday.

Glad to see Ken getting some actual press.  The piece is surprisingly in-depth.

[minerpart]

The People's ASIC 55nm was never part of the IPO deal that we invested in so no-one should be so outraged by its cancellation.

As we know it was taken on as an added value (stop-gap) scheme for the company but sadly BTC is currently showing no signs of moving from the $600 area and that seems to make the project non-viable. Even after investing company time and money into developing the 55nm it's a project that seems unable to make returns for us so what other decision could be made . That's how business rolls in a very fluid industry. That's the risk you have to take as a businessman in this field. I can't see what Ken has done wrong with this 55nm project - other than not pre-warn us that it would be dependent on the price of BTC stabilizing at previous ($1k) levels. That would have saved this latest drama as we would have expected the late-stage cancellation.

Before launching any more legal disputes have a look at what the good news coming out is. The company is being actively investigated by the MSD and while it looks like the company shouldn't be in trouble with this investigation the CEO is still not going to be stringing anyone along when he is illuminated in the middle of the radar.

[Flashman]

Basically 2-3 BTC per terahash to start mining by May 1st would have been viable, given some return, however, since the BTC price dropped, the new cost of 5-6 BTC a terahash would lose. That right there was the difference between 20% gain on investment by end of August and up to 50% loss. In fiat terms $2 -$3 a gigahash (2k-3k per tera) is still just viable, given that BTC is probably going to be on the rise again by June, but in BTC terms, net result is half the bitcoin.

[damiano]

Can we please be 100% transparent form now on?  I get lost in this thread so quickly and I almost feel like i'm reading a soap opera

[tempestb]

I'm a share holder, not a troll.

Ken provides practically no information in this thread.  People ask questions, often very good ones, that he flatly ignores for no good reason and responds to others with short sentences that say nothing.

From the get-go this entire investment has gone no where.  I do not believe there is a 28nm product coming.  I do not believe money was lost on MtGox.  There is no proof or reason to believe any of this is true.  I'm not sure what you faithful are basing your beliefs in with Ken except hope that your money isn't wasted.

The only reason I think Ken is coming in here saying anything is to keep potential lawsuits off his back. 

Provide some proof...

What's the address to the Bitcoin wallet that holds the funds? 

Show us some physical proof that this 28nm project is actually happening.  Photos or scans or design documents.  Something...

Show us the transaction ID of the money that was sent to MTGox that is now lost. 

I'm sure other people here can think of other ways to reassure investors like me.  I would like this to be a profitable venture but seeing as how the guy running the show is flatly ignoring the people who put money in his pocket it appears this is going to turn up dead like so many other Bitcoin ventures. 

Let's have some evidence Ken.  You're not that busy.  Spend a few hours and show the shareholders what is going on.   

[drawingthesun]

People ask questions, often very good ones, that he flatly ignores for no good reason and responds to others with short sentences that say nothing.

Unfortunately this is true and no one can deny that this operation has always been opaque.

I do not believe there is a 28nm product coming.

Whilst this is pure speculation, you raise an important question; many of us forget that the IPO raised just enough money for the Avalons and eASIC chip.

Many of us are constantly asking for some information regarding how we can afford a much more powerful chip than the IPO funds could have ever provided. If we don't have the money then what is going on?

I do not believe money was lost on MtGox.

Again many will tell you that this is baseless speculation, I don't like that we lost money on Gox and it feels far too convenient. I have voiced these concerns on the #actm channel and people can only point to speculation of the bitcoin price as a possible reason.

This makes no sense because day trading and speculation is hard, most lose money and it's almost pure gambling. Also Gox has not been the place for speculation for a long long time.

What's the address to the Bitcoin wallet that holds the funds? 

This will never ever ever happen I am 100% sure. I have asked Ken this repeatedly since I have been invested. It's a very easy thing to do, I am certain that if Ken proved to own an address with over 1000 bitcoin the investors would be much calmer. However I believe Ken never did this because he would have to answer to us when he moved money around. He has moved money to speculate on Gox which he didn't want us to know about.

Also I believe the only money we had left to buy 'Peoples ASIC' was the Avalon refund, (our last funds) and Ken has most likely parted with the money entirely. There is no other way to buy out this other company. Ken continues to ignore all questions regarding company funds.

Show us some physical proof that this 28nm project is actually happening.  Photos or scans or design documents.  Something...

Even getting the engineers to talk on chat. I haven't talked to anyone in ActiveMining that seemed to know technical things. I don't want to be disrespectful to Ken but the huge amount of technical errors in his posts and interviews worries me greatly. I think he is intelligent but under immense stress, with every post scrutinized by dozens of angry investors it must be difficult to remain emotionally stable.

I'm sure other people here can think of other ways to reassure investors like me.

Perhaps you're easy to reassure, I have not heard of anything reassuring in a long time, every post Ken makes scares me.

[tesselate]

Been quiet while watching this thing go down. I'm not a huge investor, but I do hold over 10k shares, so not a trivial amount either. Am I the only one, who at this point has writing this off as a complete loss? It's fairly obvious Ken either is in way over his head, or had no intention of ever producing anything. Every day this looks more and more like a scam, or completely failed venture. The "mistakes" have gone from plausible to downright baffling. It is hard for me to grasp how someone so inept could put together this whole deal in the first place, which backs the 'scam' possibility even more. Not trolling, just genuinely curious if I'm the only one who has lost hope of ever seeing a single satoshi out of this.

[americandesi]

Am a shareholder watching the space for more info on transfer of shares from bitfunder to CT.

[gjpminingco]

Well i called and talked to Ken today and he said Just Watch what happens in 3 weeks So i think that is the good news he is talking about, So i will wait the 3 weeks and reserve my judgement of everything till then

[PurpleTentacle]

Well i called and talked to Ken today and he said Just Watch what happens in 3 weeks So i think that is the good news he is talking about, So i will wait the 3 weeks and reserve my judgement of everything till then

I think it's safe to say that shareholders have run out of patience, I know I have.
Ken needs to give us something tangible right now.