[ActiveMining] Official Shareholder Discussion Thread [Moderated]

[kslaughter]

Yes you are.  You're also being sued by the same law firm:  http://www.woodlaw.com/cases/virtual-mining-corporation-and-active-mining-corporation

@NotLambchop Lets set the record straight VMC and AMC are not being sued by anyone as of this writing.

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[WildFire.ca]

http://cryptocrimson.com/2014/05/asic-manufacturer-hashfast-facing-fraud-accusations/   are we using the hashfast's chips??

HF is selling their chips in bulk, it's the completed chip and board that they are not shipping out. My guess is that they ran out of money after getting their chips printed and are trying to make the money for the boards by doing bulk chip sales.

[kslaughter]

Yes you are.  You're also being sued by the same law firm:  http://www.woodlaw.com/cases/virtual-mining-corporation-and-active-mining-corporation

@NotLambchop Lets set the record straight VMC and AMC are not being sued by anyone as of this writing.

You mean you haven't been served yet.  You're being investigated for securities fraud by your state, and a lawsuit is being prepared by Wood Law.
As of this writing.

@NotLambchop Wrong again the MSD is not investigating us for securities fraud and the Wood Law firm has not said they are preparing a suit.

[SebastianJu]

JoTheKhan... i dont say or think you defend Ken. I only say that the little bit of mining income that is untouched yet doesnt proof Ken isnt needing and using the profits yet. I think the income from miner sales should be way higher than the 139BTC and we dont have an overview about these sales. 139BTC are nothing compared to the 10000000 shares they will be split through... and only 50% of it are paid out. So please take my point that this little profitpart isnt either helping the shareholders nor proof that ken doesnt need our divs. Its like saying "look, theres a city in the us that isnt highly in debt, its prove everything runs fine" while the whole country in fact is bankrupt because all is spent.

There has to be a reason why ken isnt allowing us to trade. The only reason i can think of is that ken would have to pay out divs and in order to do that give out more clear numbers how it stands for ActM. I fear that it doesnt look good. The eASIC-Deal is gone and its open if the coins for that are gone too. We dont hear anything about our own chip project so the question is what happened. Instead we now turned to being a enduserminer... which is a way we never can make profit at the end.

Lets not fight... i dont think that you defend ken. I think there are unexplainable things where the only explaination i can guess is that ken wants to keep us in the dark about company profits and the status of the company funds. I wish he would come clear and speak with us. I wonder if its impossible to go against ken because he prevents us from trading our shares. Its like i gave him something in escrow and he denies to give it out so i can sell it. I wonder what a lawyer would say to that behaviour. I mean he could even show that ken is trading shares anyway... only not those of the main investors.

If you still not want to take the point i want to make and insist that the 139BTC are proof for anything i will stop the discussion here.

[tempestb]

Really, I made a mistake and said 170 TH, but it should have been 100 TH by the end of April.  We are at 80% of that, it does look like the AC can only support about 130-150 TH with the third AC running.  That AC should be fixed this week.  The 800 TH was based on the power available and was my estimate.  We really did not know what the AC could support, but the DC had 3 massive AC units.

Honestly, this is the most transparent and honest thing I've read from Ken in months.  I appreciate knowing the truth of the situation and where it stands.  It would be cool Ken if you then said what you're thinking about as a contingency since the AC can't support further mining cards.  Will you shift to trying to sell them?  Or are you going to move toward another Data Center?  I suppose the third option is to deal with the heat some other way.

[kslaughter]

Really, I made a mistake and said 170 TH, but it should have been 100 TH by the end of April.  We are at 80% of that, it does look like the AC can only support about 130-150 TH with the third AC running.  That AC should be fixed this week.  The 800 TH was based on the power available and was my estimate.  We really did not know what the AC could support, but the DC had 3 massive AC units.

Honestly, this is the most transparent and honest thing I've read from Ken in months.  I appreciate knowing the truth of the situation and where it stands.  It would be cool Ken if you then said what you're thinking about as a contingency since the AC can't support further mining cards.  Will you shift to trying to sell them?  Or are you going to move toward another Data Center?  I suppose the third option is to deal with the heat some other way.

We are already moving towards selling; however, with bitcoin being at its current prices, this has depressed sales somewhat.  We are working on a solution to get sales up.

[bougelahi]

We are already moving towards selling; however, with bitcoin being at its current prices, this has depressed sales somewhat.  We are working on a solution to get sales up.

Have you considered fixing the website?

[drawingthesun]

Ken, Bargraphics friend can run 5,000 boards. Why not use him? It's worth the fee if it's 5% even.

[JoTheKhan]

JoTheKhan... i dont say or think you defend Ken. I only say that the little bit of mining income that is untouched yet doesnt proof Ken isnt needing and using the profits yet. I think the income from miner sales should be way higher than the 139BTC and we dont have an overview about these sales. 139BTC are nothing compared to the 10000000 shares they will be split through... and only 50% of it are paid out. So please take my point that this little profitpart isnt either helping the shareholders nor proof that ken doesnt need our divs. Its like saying "look, theres a city in the us that isnt highly in debt, its prove everything runs fine" while the whole country in fact is bankrupt because all is spent.

There has to be a reason why ken isnt allowing us to trade. The only reason i can think of is that ken would have to pay out divs and in order to do that give out more clear numbers how it stands for ActM. I fear that it doesnt look good. The eASIC-Deal is gone and its open if the coins for that are gone too. We dont hear anything about our own chip project so the question is what happened. Instead we now turned to being a enduserminer... which is a way we never can make profit at the end.

Lets not fight... i dont think that you defend ken. I think there are unexplainable things where the only explaination i can guess is that ken wants to keep us in the dark about company profits and the status of the company funds. I wish he would come clear and speak with us. I wonder if its impossible to go against ken because he prevents us from trading our shares. Its like i gave him something in escrow and he denies to give it out so i can sell it. I wonder what a lawyer would say to that behaviour. I mean he could even show that ken is trading shares anyway... only not those of the main investors.

If you still not want to take the point i want to make and insist that the 139BTC are proof for anything i will stop the discussion here.

I hear you - and I am also not looking for an argument.

If you want to define dividends as Profit made by the company then even if shares came out, you do agree that there has been no profit from this company so far yes? So either way there will be no dividends even from the mining sales as they have definitely not made up all the money that has been spent & lost. (They probably haven't even covered the money lost to Mt. Gox or the money lost to eAsic). So if dividends are the profit of the company then it is effectively zero. At this point I don't even think a financial report is necessary to see that this is the case but (@ Ken) a financial report is still necessary for company clarity.

On the other hand, if you don't want to define dividends as Profit and instead want to define it as mining income, then we have an address where we can see all of the mining income. Which has yet to go untouched. So this is a no issue, Ken could have a plan for this money that doesn't involve shareholders but I do not think that it is the reason we have gone 5 months without having shares - Now it could be a reason as you save for us to lack access to our shares, but I see no evidence to alludes to this.

As you can see, at this point. There really is no way for a shareholder to expect to receive a dividend that includes money made from selling hardware. The company is in a deficit, worst case the company is sitting on less than 350BTC to continue operations and make a turn around. I don't see how one would expect to receive any dividend, let alone a dividend from newly sold hardware. I could be ignorant (and probably am) of a few other failures and/or success from the company that can have that 350BTC be way off (140BTC~ from the Mining address + last I heard 200BTC from the AMC/VMC address + w/e we sold so far), but from the information I've seen this is accurate.

Who knows why Ken hasn't done shares yet. For all intents and purposes it could be that hes just lazy. I can not recall ever arguing as to why we don't have shares ( but yes, I have stated my opinion on the matter ), I've only wanted people to be clear of where our mining income has gone to and made sure that they understand that Ken hasn't been stealing it. It's still there after all these months, it's been in limbo as long as our shares.

[arousedrhino]

Really, I made a mistake and said 170 TH, but it should have been 100 TH by the end of April.  We are at 80% of that, it does look like the AC can only support about 130-150 TH with the third AC running.  That AC should be fixed this week.  The 800 TH was based on the power available and was my estimate.  We really did not know what the AC could support, but the DC had 3 massive AC units.

Honestly, this is the most transparent and honest thing I've read from Ken in months.  I appreciate knowing the truth of the situation and where it stands.  It would be cool Ken if you then said what you're thinking about as a contingency since the AC can't support further mining cards.  Will you shift to trying to sell them?  Or are you going to move toward another Data Center?  I suppose the third option is to deal with the heat some other way.

We are already moving towards selling; however, with bitcoin being at its current prices, this has depressed sales somewhat.  We are working on a solution to get sales up.

Ken,

I think if you put the prospector board on the front page of the website which says shipping now! That would help sales out, right now even I an investor who knows what I am looking for took 6 clicks to find the Prospector from the VMC homepage. I doubt a non ActiveMining shareholder would even be able to find the prospector board.

Thanks for considering my idea.

[tempestb]

He didn't say there wasn't an investigation, but that it wasn't over securities fraud.  There is an investigation, we know that.

[LorenzoMoney]

After this much time waiting, Ken should not be playing semantics games.

It would be very easy for you, Ken, to come clean, and provide a proper P & L sheet, and to explain why you have refused to answer questions, and why you refuse to resume trading.

He didn't say there wasn't an investigation, but that it wasn't over securities fraud.  There is an investigation, we know that.

[bitwhizz]

Hey Ken
a few pointers in selling your asic mining hardware

List on ebay
list on amazon
advertise site using bct advertisement banner,
fix up website

[ASKen]

ASKen - A new account run by shareholders - Send us your questions and we'll do the rest!

Dear Ken,

This new account has been created in an effort to encourage more transparency and create a healthier relationship between CEO and shareholders.   In future you can expect a pm from the ASKen account every Monday which will contain shareholder questions and we would request that you take this opportunity to rebuild trust with the community by answering in as much detail as possible.  If questions go unanswered or it is felt that answers have not been satisfactory they will be presented to you the following week.  We fully understand that we can't expect to know every detail about the business but would ask that you take advantage of this opportunity and show a willingness to be more open.  You will already have read that the shareholders want to know as much about the problems and issues you encounter as they do the good news.  At the bottom of this post are three points of discussion and we would ask that you take the time to answer in as much detail as you can.

Dear Shareholders,

Please pm your questions for Ken to the ASKen account and we will assimilate and prioritise them on an ongoing basis and then send them on directly to Ken.  The previous week's questions will be presented to him every Monday to allow ample time for Ken to issue his replies along with the Wednesday update.  If some of the issues are not being dealt with in a satisfactory way we will continue to ask them on behalf of the shareholders.


Ken, here are a couple of discussion points.  In future, you will be presented with questions only;

LET'S GET STARTED!

1) Ken, we are sure you are aware that shareholder confidence is at an all time low and people are starting to consider legal action.  How do you feel about being given an opportunity to turn things around and are you keen to embrace the efforts being made by the ASKen account by being more open in the future?

2) Ken, could you say a few words about eAsic.  Perhaps a summary of the history.  Shareholders have long wanted to know why the chips were never produced.

3) With the declining price of bitcoin, hardware sales are becoming more important to the success of the company and yet the website is in desperate need of updating.  Please say a few words to explain why this issue has not been resolved yet.

Kind regards,

ASKen

[shaofis]

ASKen - A new account run by shareholders - Send us your questions and we'll do the rest!

Kind regards,

ASKen

You need to disclose who is running this account before I'd consider using this method. And what criteria you use to decide which questions get passed on.

[zumzero]

I started the ASKen account.  I thought perhaps I'd give the password to ActM Thread also? I am more than happy to just start this off and if anyone wants to take over they are more than welcome to change the password so I am no longer involved.

What I thought was we place the most frequently asked questions at the top of the list of questions every week.  Given that it's likely there would be multiple versions of the most popular questions I think the ASKen operator would need to be trusted to phrase them on behalf of the shareholders (edit - or perhaps select the question which best articulates the issue).

Those that Ken doesn't answer or gives unacceptable answers to, we highlight and ask again in a second list.  If after that the answers still haven't been forthcoming, we create a third list where we are asking why the questions are not given an answer.  Like this;

LIST 1:  Questions 1-X (New questions prioritised according to the frequency they were asked and phrased by the ASKen operator)

LIST 2:  Questions from previous week that did not get acceptable replies.

LIST 3:  Questions from list 2 still outstanding where we understand that Ken will not answer but we are asking for an explanation as to why.

These are just my thoughts and I'm more than happy to take advice and for others to get involved.  We've done something similar in the past but not in a structured way like this.

Edit-  I see this method as a way to circumvent the issue of Ken cherry picking his questions.

[shaofis]

Thanks Zum,

All very reasonable. The problem still remains that shareholders have been given little to no voice by Ken who has gotten away with almost no accountability. I believe there is a solution out there; but Ken is going to have to come to the table and work with shareholders and quickly else things will escalate into a legal mess; which isn't good for anyone.

[tempestb]

Unless Ken agrees to answer the questions in the AskKen account, it's just an empty exercise.  Here's a better idea.  Why don't you take your questions, pick up the phone and call Ken and ask him on the phone.  Then you can transcribe his answers.  My guess is, he is more apt to explain verbally what is happening than by writing it down because his ability to provide written information is notable for being brief and lacks detail and as the question and answers are written there is no way to follow-up and get further information.  Having a voice conversation would be far better.

[zumzero]

Stating the obvious is also an empty exercise.  Of course Ken needs to play ball or it's a waste of time, but I'm guessing he'll be happy to go along with this knowing that he needs to do something to improve relations with the shareholders otherwise people will follow through on their threats of legal action.  I have also PM'd him and explained that he is being given an opportunity here to make things good again.  Phoning him isn't a bad idea and I had a similar thought where we could transcribe his answers.  Things are ever changing so unless you are prepared to phone him regularly and report your findings then perhaps it isn't the solution we're looking for.  By all means follow through with your idea tempest and report your findings.  So if I concentrate on the weekly Q&A using the ASKen account perhaps you could find out what the shareholders want to know, encourage Ken to be forthcoming with information that up to now he has sat on, conduct a phone interview and post the transcription?

ASKen - A new account run by shareholders - Send us your questions and we'll do the rest!
...

1) Ken, we are sure you are aware that shareholder confidence is at an all time low and people are starting to consider legal action.  How do you feel about being given an opportunity to turn things around and are you keen to embrace the efforts being made by the ASKen account by being more open in the future?

Fingers crossed that Ken replies to this and the other two issues put to him earlier, in today's weekly update.

[JoTheKhan]

I got a question for Ken.

What did you mean when you said the MSD are not investigating you. Can you elaborate on this entire situation? Did they start and then stop? Or were they never investigating you in the first place? What is the newest reason we don't have shares then?