The Cypherfunks[FUNK]: a coin for a global band! Talking v2. Join! 80+ songs

[vaudvaud]

You will to be able burn more when we switch, so there is value in keeping mining right now!

Ok cool... I'm mining it for now with my ASICs (and using it to test new Ras Pi images to see which does better) since there is nothing else interesting at the moment... looks like somebody else jumped in the last few hours as I'm not solving all the blocks myself anymore, but can't tell more as all the blockchain explorers look to be down... but at least there is a few others out there...

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[simondlr]

Just reporting in guys, sorry I've been vacant, been so insanely busy I haven't even been doing anything for fun lately!

All in all I have little to add, except to say FANTASTIC work guys! And yes I agree ROX looks like a total scam. Good chance to differentiate ourselves from them. Could mean our start is mildly harmed, but we know we're genuine, and that'll speak for itself in time - that word is starting to sound like a different 4-letter word to me these days ;-)

I don't think there's been anything I disagree with in the slightest discussed :-) I love the exponentially decreasing PoS reward concept. Covers a bunch of incentives at once on initial inspection.

Can't wait to get this off the ground!

Cool. I'll have a look again at the exponentially decreasing PoS reward. Not sure how difficult it would be to implement.

@soundposition: regarding auto-burn. Don't think it is possible. Counterparty auto-burning worked because implementations remained on the same blockchain. Trying to think off the top of my head, this probably means having to run both chains at the same time [to keep checking source of burns]. So, the easiest would be to just do a manual burn process which I will administer.

This does mean, it won't be as private as just mining it yourself [only I will know how much you are burning]. If you want to remain anonymous, you could also just sign up for a new account, and do it through that.

---

So. To give an update. Just a few things I need to iron out and research. Afaik, last thing on the list is look at the exponential decay PoS. After that's done I'll drop the whole plan into a doc for one final perusal. 2 things I'm going to change. Going to change the leading letter to "F" so not to confuse with FUNK1 addresses. And then the new four-letter name need to still be decided upon so to additionally make sure people aren't confused. Thinking either FUNK2, or FNK. FNK is sexier imho?

[soundposition]

@simondlr Thanks for the update. Whatever will work.. I'm not worried about it. I'm working on music with Drapture presently (experimental, EDM, and Hardstyle so far), and have many collaborations in the works with Pyerode, Brady McKenna, and more! Gaining much more traction over here as more and more people discover my music thanks to Cypherfunks!

[n00bnoxious]

Ok I've got some input guys. Considering the concepts behind what CypherFUNK *is* and what we're trying to achieve, which is incentives for holding AND selling, perhaps PoSV (Proof of Stake Velocity) from RDD fits pretty well: http://www.reddcoin.com/papers/PoSV.pdf

It's basically FLT's PoT (Proof of Transaction) crossed with PoS... That means that the stake rate % is relative to the network velocity, which also helps secure the network - the network velocity actually being the transactions occurring across the network. Of course we want to give incentives for both selling, hoarding and buying... I think PoSV fits better than any model we've suggested so far, but would love to hear everybody else's thoughts! :-)

FNK is sexier imho?

I think so.

[jwinterm]

or maybe XFK and we can get onboard with the three letter, iso compliant currency names?

[simondlr]

@soundposition: eepppic. Looking forward to it!

@noobnoxious: I have to look into PoT (PoSV) and how they do it. Afaik (had a quick look at Flutter), it only works with PoW blocks. Or I think it was coded to work with PoW blocks. But if I have it correctly, having an exponential decay on stake does pretty much the same thing as PoSV, which is: incentivizing staking only up to a point. No hard limit, just a nice decay. Haven't had much time to look into it.

@jwinterm: I like XFK. Anyone else?

---

It's the weekend tomorrow, so going to try and spend some time tomorrow on finalising the cross-over plans.

[n00bnoxious]

@noobnoxious: I have to look into PoT (PoSV) and how they do it. Afaik (had a quick look at Flutter), it only works with PoW blocks. Or I think it was coded to work with PoW blocks. But if I have it correctly, having an exponential decay on stake does pretty much the same thing as PoSV, which is: incentivizing staking only up to a point. No hard limit, just a nice decay. Haven't had much time to look into it.

@jwinterm: I like XFK. Anyone else?

PoSV gives higher stake interest the more network activity that's going on. It's a modification of PoS to take into account the network velocity and use it to secure the network, i.e., the more transactions per block the higher the stake interest and network weight. So it is an incentive to hold because of PoS coin age, and an incentive to spend because the more people spending, the higher the net weight and thus also the stake interest for those who are staking. It's a kind of double-whammy as far as I see it. Both ideas are perfectly valid options, just thought it looked interesting considering what we're developing is a niche tip coin at its core. Although I don't have ANY idea how it uses transactions to secure the network. That'd require looking into.

Also XFK looks a bit like X-F**k to me :-P Might just be me though haha.

[jwinterm]

Also XFK looks a bit like X-F**k to me :-P Might just be me though haha.

Not just you, but I thought that was a significant part of the appeal

[simondlr]

@noobnoxious: I have to look into PoT (PoSV) and how they do it. Afaik (had a quick look at Flutter), it only works with PoW blocks. Or I think it was coded to work with PoW blocks. But if I have it correctly, having an exponential decay on stake does pretty much the same thing as PoSV, which is: incentivizing staking only up to a point. No hard limit, just a nice decay. Haven't had much time to look into it.

@jwinterm: I like XFK. Anyone else?

PoSV gives higher stake interest the more network activity that's going on. It's a modification of PoS to take into account the network velocity and use it to secure the network, i.e., the more transactions per block the higher the stake interest and network weight. So it is an incentive to hold because of PoS coin age, and an incentive to spend because the more people spending, the higher the net weight and thus also the stake interest for those who are staking. It's a kind of double-whammy as far as I see it. Both ideas are perfectly valid options, just thought it looked interesting considering what we're developing is a niche tip coin at its core. Although I don't have ANY idea how it uses transactions to secure the network. That'd require looking into.

Also XFK looks a bit like X-F**k to me :-P Might just be me though haha.

Haha. Perhaps XFN? I like XFK though.

Oh I see, regarding PoSV. Have they implemented it yet?

I think a basic decay algorithm will be sufficient?

I put the whole thing into a project plan pdf draft including the burning process.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eyw9w8ztk9zni2x/The%20Cypherfunks%20v2%20project%20plan.pdf

Looking for feedback! Any critiques, info, details we can add, remove etc. Let me know!

[n00bnoxious]

Haha. Perhaps XFN? I like XFK though.

Yeah it's probably just me being oversensitive, and a bit of controversy rarely hurt artistry!

Oh I see, regarding PoSV. Have they implemented it yet?

I think a basic decay algorithm will be sufficient?

Yes, it's in place now, so you can probably go and investigate the code. But yes, I think decay could be enough, but with the progress that crypto-economics are making (look at VIA's impressive early success), I think it'd be a nice boost to get this spot on first time. Good enough is never enough is one of my many mottos ;-)

I put the whole thing into a project plan pdf draft including the burning process.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eyw9w8ztk9zni2x/The%20Cypherfunks%20v2%20project%20plan.pdf

Looking for feedback! Any critiques, info, details we can add, remove etc. Let me know!

I shall give it a read tomorrow and get back to you!

[jwinterm]

I put the whole thing into a project plan pdf draft including the burning process.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eyw9w8ztk9zni2x/The%20Cypherfunks%20v2%20project%20plan.pdf

Looking for feedback! Any critiques, info, details we can add, remove etc. Let me know!

Looks good simon! Hard to find anything to nitpick.

[simondlr]

Yes, it's in place now, so you can probably go and investigate the code. But yes, I think decay could be enough, but with the progress that crypto-economics are making (look at VIA's impressive early success), I think it'd be a nice boost to get this spot on first time. Good enough is never enough is one of my many mottos ;-)

I shall give it a read tomorrow and get back to you!

I'll have a look at it! Would be an interesting addition. If anyone wants to help dissect, please do.

@sysOS.

The old coins will be burned to the new chain. So yes, if you have old FUNK, you will get XFK. More details will be released around the time of launch.

[soundposition]

How do we sign the transaction itself with one of our inputs?

EDIT: Nevermind. I felt like a n00b asking that. I downloaded the VIA wallet and I see the option to type a message into the field, and that will have the message attached to the transaction. That's apparently one of those newfangled crypto-tools. That is what you are talking about right?

[simondlr]

How do we sign the transaction itself with one of our inputs?

EDIT: Nevermind. I felt like a n00b asking that. I downloaded the VIA wallet and I see the option to type a message into the field, and that will have the message attached to the transaction. That's apparently one of those newfangled crypto-tools. That is what you are talking about right?

Yep. It's all QT wallets. I'll make pics/screenshots once the time comes!

[soundposition]

Some interesting counterparty protocol music experiments:

http://www.coinpowers.com/about.aspx

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=638680.0

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of 'me' coins. It's like a 'selfie'. 'Selfie' coins. Eww.

It's funny that they are both bragging about being the 'first' musician to issue a counterparty coin.

I prefer a collective where the success of the collective benefits everyone belonging to it. Otherwise, people start competing with each other over whose music or ideas are worth supporting, instead of people just supporting people in general. It seems like this is important, because people are still stuck in the old way of thinking. We have a chance to do things completely differently, and in a way that really helps a lot of people.

[vaudvaud]

Just going to toss this out there, don't know if it's possible without tons of work but..

Lately I'm seeing loss of interest in coins that don't do anything but be coins, or just have a new hash format or avoid scrypt, and/or don't have any purpose beyond tipping.  The newest trends are towards alt coins that can actually do something or provide some sort of service.. the newest of these being ones like SysCoin and Ethereum - applying the blockchain technology to decentralize other services.

Now I have not checked out all the altcoins out there, so don't know if any have started this - but how about a decentralized "itunes"?  A decentralized store front were musicians can sell their works directly to the consumers, bypassing record labels, publishers, Apple, etc.  Coins paid/tipped go direct to the artist, with no fees to anybody else.  Tack on a tipping and reputation system and you get even better... all based off the block chain to keep it decentralized and cut out all the middle men so the artist get max returns.

Downside is that would require a lot of programing and some infrastructure to pull off (mainly building the storefront (The AKA ITunes) side).  Some of these newer coins are coming out with full fledged development teams behind them, the largest being Ethereum.  And this type of system could actually probable be built using these coins/systems. But one dedicated just to music and artists would be awesome.  It's going to be one of those first to market with the most hype behind it things though for it to take off.

Of course somebody could just setup a storefront using Moolah and sell works and then accept any number of coins automatically.. but I'd like to see the whole built in tipping, feedback, etc and interactive community side built in.

Or maybe I'm just thinking too much. 

[mckmuze]

Hey guys, still trying to get back in the groove, but I'm still around. I was curious if we could get a multipool online shortly after the POS implementation, preferably right as we go POS. This will put constant pressure on the coin. I also think we should try to play gigs as much as possible and have an agreement that we will put X amount of gig profits into the coin to add more buy pressure.This will add short term holding incentive long enough to implement some of the other ideas that have been discussed.

I was watching the Nautilus/Dirac buyback swap and I think we need to utilize this idea with some of the other coins. These swaps will create market velocity and liquidity, this is extremely important. The multipools also do this as well, Naut is already planning this as well for the same reasons. If the market velocity is really moving we can really get creative with the economic structures and create some great opportunities for traders, miners, holders, musicians and anyone in between. This also creates a solid disconnect from BTC pricing (huge reason I am watching these coins closely.

I think we need to get a twitter tip bot going soon, preferably like the reddcoin tipbot. An actual tip button is awesome.
This will be a great way to distribute coins, musicians will be holding a lot of coins after a while and instead of us sending them back and forth between each other we will be able to reward listeners for constructive feedback on twitter. So when we reach a point we want to distribute coins after accumulating we can have a great outlet that will shape the music based on direct listener feedback.  

We also should encourage the standardization of using https://onename.io/ profiles (https://onename.io/brady)
We can easily place this link in the description of each song so the public can really get to know each artist who participated properly.

In all honesty the exchanges are a complete farce and only create a ridiculous market situation that falsely represents a coins value in an already manipulated market, which is why a direct swap with other coins off exchange with an agreement to do an open market buyback to stimulate the market is a necessary evil, this allowed Naut and XDQ to pull back to a proper market price.

The ideal situation would be if we had a legitimate exchange of our own. I think the best way to do this would be to turn our music into a decentralized fiat market using something like Brawker.com (but for XFK instead). We would only need a trusted way to sell our music with credit cards, any ideas on a way to do this in a way that everyone here can agree on? Heck it really could be anywhere, but I think we need to get creative with our music sales. one idea we should use is to take the listener feedback and produce an album based on that feedback but only release and sell it at live events. Buy a concert ticket, get the new album at event, preferably a festival. (cypherfunkapalooza )

The real value will come from actual coin utilization, it is a do or die situation, many colossal changes are about to flood the alt markets and anyone who doesnt build infrastructure and use cases will see their coin die quickly. My dad always said, "if your going to do something, you do it all, not just one part." We need a few dedicated individuals to use Cypherfunk to crowdfund an organization for Production, promotion, booking, event planning, artist equipment insurance, copyright services, education. In short "Full Stack" or GTFO! lol

I even have some other ideas for down the road, but these things could easily be done with just a few industry partnerships with people who understand the power we have at our finger tips. LETS DO THIS!! Im sick of seeing some of my favorite artists die broke and hungry because the industry is a giant leech here to suck artists dry and spit them out when they are out of juice. It happened to my family (mostly musicians) and I dont want it to happen to any other artists.

Lets not let V 2 die a brutal death, lets "Full Stack" this time. its the only way. Im sick of seeing some of the best talent in the world struggle. Musicians are some of the most creative and interesting people in the world (IMO) Lets show em what we can do!!

[mckmuze]

We really need a festival with open source atms, prypto scratch cards, event exclusive CDs with live recordings and the listener generated CDs exclusive to the show, and crypto food vendors at a festival would be an interesting way to introduce people to the technology. I have been to large events like the Telluride Blues and Blues Festival and I feel like these types of things would go over HUGE with a crowd like that. The town may even really support something like that, not to mention I know a lot of people up there who would love to help organize that. We really need to pull in younger crowds, they have a telluride Rock and Roll Academy and I think it would be a huge success if the kids saw the music they made with a decentralized band blow up. We could even work with scholarship programs with some of the music schools and use XFK to fund it.
We could even do Funk sticks (USB versions of the event exclusive music with wallets and coins loaded and ready to go)

Lets get this coin released with a multipool and bring some solid buy pressure to our coin. We need this for all the things I know are possible to happen.

Our plans should include the multipool, twitter tip bot for listener feedback reward system, the full stack music business, open source ATMs, Prypto scratch cards, Festivals, Production teams/studios, and anything else we can muster up as crypto development explodes.

[GrinZ]

Added to multifaucet.tk
Get FUNK coins!

[simondlr]

I prefer a collective where the success of the collective benefits everyone belonging to it. Otherwise, people start competing with each other over whose music or ideas are worth supporting, instead of people just supporting people in general. It seems like this is important, because people are still stuck in the old way of thinking. We have a chance to do things completely differently, and in a way that really helps a lot of people.

Totally!

Of course somebody could just setup a storefront using Moolah and sell works and then accept any number of coins automatically.. but I'd like to see the whole built in tipping, feedback, etc and interactive community side built in.

Or maybe I'm just thinking too much.

Nope. Never something as thinking too much. All awesome ideas. I think your proposal comes close to what we spoke about. Baking in the coin part to be directly tied to the music part (not simple a coin representing the system). But as you said. This requires a lot more effort. There might actually be ways to use Ethereum to make this easier (you can store additional meta-info much easier). I think Rob Myers might have some ideas. He's been tying art to ethereum contracts.

At the moment, I just want to get XFK done and out there, so we at least have a "normal" working coin going again. Then we can continue refining the ideas!

@mckmuze:

Thanks for all the awesome ideas. Totally. Almost all your stuff is spot on. I'll need all the help I can get!

So, an update on the dev of XFK. This week turned out to be surprisingly busy, but I'm doing dev work today. n00bnoxious pretty much finished work on the new CPU algo we are going to use! So excited. High five to him!