Bitcoin Savings and Trust | Home | Closed

[BoardGameCoin]

hazek: we may be talking around each other. I'm just saying that his hedge only helps if the BTCUSD drops, and if it rises, he has extra liability. This is probably what you're saying as well.

Not at all. His "hedge" is that he is using other people's money. If the BTCUSD rate drops, he makes more, if it goes up his clients lose, or so the story goes. His clients should have lost money with the recent significant exchange rate increase, they haven't, why? Because he's not really exchanging anything.

Okay, when you say 'clients' do you mean the people giving him BTC or the people supposedly giving him $? I'm talking about the people giving him BTC. And I'm saying that under the assumption that somehow pirate is doing something legit or semi-legit, having to pay people back in BTC is good for him if BTCUSD  goes down and harder for him if it goes up. I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. It might be something about his supposed real-world ($) clients losing money?

-bgc

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[hazek]

Riiiight ok, that's a valid reason.. Except there's one tiny little problem with your story: Your clients haven't had any loses yet even though the price rose which should have meant that you couldn't have possibly bought back all the bitcoins people "invested" with you that you initially, as you claim, converted to fiat. How is this possible? How are you able to meet your obligations even though the risk event for which you insured yourself against by using other people's bitcoins clearly happened?

Do you really think someone that manages as many coins as I do, doesn't have an influence on market movements?  What I do with the coins is my business and my lenders are well aware of the risks associated with entrusting someone with them.  If anyone has a reason to not trust me with their coins they're more than welcome to withdraw them.

I'm done discussing the same stuff over and over, if someone has something new to add fine but until then...  I be havin' t' get aft t' me ship.

So you basically have no answer why your clients HAVEN'T lost money "investing" with you after the recent significant exchange rate increase, which is the risk you hedge against by using their money instead of your own?

[pirateat40]

Riiiight ok, that's a valid reason.. Except there's one tiny little problem with your story: Your clients haven't had any loses yet even though the price rose which should have meant that you couldn't have possibly bought back all the bitcoins people "invested" with you that you initially, as you claim, converted to fiat. How is this possible? How are you able to meet your obligations even though the risk event for which you insured yourself against by using other people's bitcoins clearly happened?

Do you really think someone that manages as many coins as I do, doesn't have an influence on market movements?  What I do with the coins is my business and my lenders are well aware of the risks associated with entrusting someone with them.  If anyone has a reason to not trust me with their coins they're more than welcome to withdraw them.

I'm done discussing the same stuff over and over, if someone has something new to add fine but until then...  I be havin' t' get aft t' me ship.

So you basically have no answer why your clients HAVEN'T lost money "investing" with you after the recent significant exchange rate increase, which is the risk you hedge against by using their money instead of your own?

I really wish you knew what you were talking about.

Ok really, I'm done.

[rdponticelli]

I have no idea if pirate is running a Ponzi or not. My mind comes and goes on the subject, but I'm sure of just one thing. If bitcoin has no value, nobody has any business in bitcoin. And if pirate owns all bitcoins, bitcoins has no value. By distributing wealth, and by paying a huge interest rate, pirate is putting pressure on the exchange rate, and is making bitcoin become valuable. Maybe that's the only way he can have his business going...

[hazek]

hazek: we may be talking around each other. I'm just saying that his hedge only helps if the BTCUSD drops, and if it rises, he has extra liability. This is probably what you're saying as well.

Not at all. His "hedge" is that he is using other people's money. If the BTCUSD rate drops, he makes more, if it goes up his clients lose, or so the story goes. His clients should have lost money with the recent significant exchange rate increase, they haven't, why? Because he's not really exchanging anything.

Okay, when you say 'clients' do you mean the people giving him BTC or the people supposedly giving him $? I'm talking about the people giving him BTC. And I'm saying that under the assumption that somehow pirate is doing something legit or semi-legit, having to pay people back in BTC is good for him if BTCUSD  goes down and harder for him if it goes up. I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. It might be something about his supposed real-world ($) clients losing money?

-bgc

He claims:
- he is facing risk when converting BTC to fiat and back
- therefor he is using other people's money to do his investing to avoid a loss if BTCUSD goes up

My conclusions:
- the risk event he is hedging against by using other people's money has happened
- his clients haven't lost money when they should have
- he isn't really exchanging anything
- his stated reason for giving up some of his "profits" and using other people's money is bogus

[hazek]

Riiiight ok, that's a valid reason.. Except there's one tiny little problem with your story: Your clients haven't had any loses yet even though the price rose which should have meant that you couldn't have possibly bought back all the bitcoins people "invested" with you that you initially, as you claim, converted to fiat. How is this possible? How are you able to meet your obligations even though the risk event for which you insured yourself against by using other people's bitcoins clearly happened?

Do you really think someone that manages as many coins as I do, doesn't have an influence on market movements?  What I do with the coins is my business and my lenders are well aware of the risks associated with entrusting someone with them.  If anyone has a reason to not trust me with their coins they're more than welcome to withdraw them.

I'm done discussing the same stuff over and over, if someone has something new to add fine but until then...  I be havin' t' get aft t' me ship.

So you basically have no answer why your clients HAVEN'T lost money "investing" with you after the recent significant exchange rate increase, which is the risk you hedge against by using their money instead of your own?

I really wish you knew what you were talking about.

Ok really, I'm done.

We'll see about that in a new thread, coming soon

[CecilNiosaki]

hazek: we may be talking around each other. I'm just saying that his hedge only helps if the BTCUSD drops, and if it rises, he has extra liability. This is probably what you're saying as well.

Not at all. His "hedge" is that he is using other people's money. If the BTCUSD rate drops, he makes more, if it goes up his clients lose, or so the story goes. His clients should have lost money with the recent significant exchange rate increase, they haven't, why? Because he's not really exchanging anything.

Okay, when you say 'clients' do you mean the people giving him BTC or the people supposedly giving him $? I'm talking about the people giving him BTC. And I'm saying that under the assumption that somehow pirate is doing something legit or semi-legit, having to pay people back in BTC is good for him if BTCUSD  goes down and harder for him if it goes up. I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. It might be something about his supposed real-world ($) clients losing money?

-bgc

He claims:
- he is facing risk when converting BTC to fiat and back
- therefor he is using other people's money to do his investing to avoid a loss if BTCUSD goes up

My conclusions:
- the risk event he is hedging against by using other people's money has happened
- his clients haven't lost money when they should have
- he isn't really exchanging anything
- his stated reason for giving up some of his "profits" and using other people's money is bogus

Who said he is converting directly to FIAT, though? For instance, I've personally traded a few intermediate currencies to get from BTC to USD, and in turn draw in a bigger profit for a lower USD to BTC price. It's quite possible if you know what you're doing.

[the joint]

Guys, guys...this is an easy fix.

If you want to know if he's lying or not, just ask him to swear on his grandmother's grave and promise that he's not running a ponzi.

Easy peasy.

[imsaguy]

Email alerts suck!

[pirateat40]

Email alerts suck!

Fixed, that for ya.

[pirateat40]

We're all filled up on crazy here!  Got FUD?  Check out these threads.

• A Theory on what pirateat40 is doing
• The Bond party is a HYIP scam party
• BS&T -- Are you staying or leaving?

[John (John K.)]

We're all filled up on crazy here!  Got FUD?  Check out these threads.

• A Theory on what pirateat40 is doing
• The Bond party is a HYIP scam party
• BS&T -- Are you staying or leaving?

inb4 thread locked again.
On a more serious side, why is there a sudden surge of people attacking BS&T?

[hazek]

We're all filled up on crazy here!  Got FUD?  Check out these threads.

• A Theory on what pirateat40 is doing
• The Bond party is a HYIP scam party
• BS&T -- Are you staying or leaving?

inb4 thread locked again.
On a more serious side, why is there a sudden surge of people attacking BS&T?

Personally I got inspired by the EVE story which pirate's business has a remarkable similarity with, but it also reminded me of my crossing paths with ponzi scams irl and the devastation it always causes and so I couldn't help myself but to be another voice of serious concern in hopes to save some people from unnecessarily losing their hard earned money.

[hazek]

Bitcoin is not fiat yet.  That doesn't mean it won't be at some point nor does it mean I don't believe in it.  There's simply no reason at this time for me to risk market movements with my converted fiat > bitcoin

Riiiight ok, that's a valid reason.. Except there's one tiny little problem with your story: Your clients haven't had any loses yet even though the price rose which should have meant that you couldn't have possibly bought back all the bitcoins people "invested" with you that you initially, as you claim, converted to fiat. How is this possible? How are you able to meet your obligations even though the risk event for which you insured yourself against by using other people's bitcoins clearly happened?

Do you really think someone that manages as many coins as I do, doesn't have an influence on market movements?  What I do with the coins is my business and my lenders are well aware of the risks associated with entrusting someone with them.  If anyone has a reason to not trust me with their coins they're more than welcome to withdraw them.

I'm done discussing the same stuff over and over, if someone has something new to add fine but until then...  I be havin' t' get aft t' me ship.

So you basically have no answer why your clients HAVEN'T lost money "investing" with you after the recent significant exchange rate increase, which is the risk you hedge against by using their money instead of your own?

I really wish you knew what you were talking about.

Ok really, I'm done.

Btw people should pay attention to this ^. It's a serious red flag and he's "done" explaining..

[R-]

Pirate, do you have a Skype or other VoIP account? Why not hold a conference and assuage your inventors.

[pirateat40]

Pirate, do you have a Skype or other VoIP account? Why not hold a conference and assuage your inventors.

I have no need to hold a conference call to talk about anything that they don't already know.  What do you mean?

[Raoul Duke]

Pirate, do you have a Skype or other VoIP account? Why not hold a conference and assuage your inventors.

I'm pretty sure it's not his investors who are bombarding him with questions

[brendio]

Now if only I could a referral...

You won't need one soon!

[finkleshnorts]

He won't want one soon, since the passthroughs pay more now...

[dog]

woof woof!