Bitcoin or gold?

[deisik]

It is no good trying to switch to a different theme. Gold is money, and, as a matter of fact, it is the best money out there yet (whatever they might say to the contrary). That's why central banks all over the world (including the ones of the most developed countries) are hoarding it...

No central bank is hoarding it except from the BRICS. The others couldnt care a shit about gold and they are already working on their next ponzi schemes, the SDR instruments issued by the IMF.

Okay, could you please post a time chart proving your point which shows time dynamics of gold reserves of the first 4 top gold holders (a hint, these are most developed Western countries)...

And its not just that their gold reserves are not rising (but falling sharply)

Falling sharply, wtf? Are you serious? Did you notice that the Y axis in your charts didn't start at 0? We see that the US gold reserves fell in 2002 from about 8150 to 8135 tonnes, which makes ridiculous 0.18%? Let's look at Germany. The chart looks convincing unless we calculate that its gold reserves fell only 1.77% in 10 years. The same is true for other charts as well. Whom are you really going to convince by these numbers?

And where are Italy and France here (3d and 4th top gold holders)?

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[GreenStox]

Falling sharply, wtf? Are you serious? Did you notice that the Y axis in your charts didn't start at 0? We see that the US gold reserves fell in 2002 from about 8150 to 8135 tonnes, which makes ridiculous 0.18%? Let's look at Germany. The chart looks convincing unless we calculate that its gold reserves fell only 1.77% in 10 years. The same is true for other charts as well. Whom are you really going to convince by these numbers?

And where are Italy and France here (3d and 4th top gold holders)?

Yes but not exactly "hoarding" aswell, its a downtrend or flat, not a 45 degree uptrend, so looks like they dont give a fuck about gold.

France and italy same thing:





This data is from: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/

One of the most reliable economic statistics website that is out there.

[deisik]

Falling sharply, wtf? Are you serious? Did you notice that the Y axis in your charts didn't start at 0? We see that the US gold reserves fell in 2002 from about 8150 to 8135 tonnes, which makes ridiculous 0.18%? Let's look at Germany. The chart looks convincing unless we calculate that its gold reserves fell only 1.77% in 10 years. The same is true for other charts as well. Whom are you really going to convince by these numbers?

And where are Italy and France here (3d and 4th top gold holders)?

Yes but not exactly "hoarding" aswell, its a downtrend or flat, not a 45 degree uptrend, so looks like they dont give a fuck about gold.

France and italy same thing:

How is it a downtrend? We see that the top gold holders in the developed world keep their gold position unchanged at least for the last 5 years. The US' gold position didn't change significantly at all for the last 15 years. Why do they keep their gold if they don't give a fuck about it? Don't forget that just keeping gold takes a huge amount of money in expenses and costs...

[GreenStox]

Falling sharply, wtf? Are you serious? Did you notice that the Y axis in your charts didn't start at 0? We see that the US gold reserves fell in 2002 from about 8150 to 8135 tonnes, which makes ridiculous 0.18%? Let's look at Germany. The chart looks convincing unless we calculate that its gold reserves fell only 1.77% in 10 years. The same is true for other charts as well. Whom are you really going to convince by these numbers?

And where are Italy and France here (3d and 4th top gold holders)?

Yes but not exactly "hoarding" aswell, its a downtrend or flat, not a 45 degree uptrend, so looks like they dont give a fuck about gold.

France and italy same thing:

How is it a downtrend? We see that the top gold holders in the developed world keep their gold position unchanged at least for the last 5 years. The US' gold position didn't change significantly at all for the last 15 years. Why do they keep their gold if they don't give a fuck about it? Don't forget that just keeping gold takes a huge amount of money in expenses and costs...

Ah c`mon stop with those excuses, no matter what proof i show you you always try to make excuses.

Just realize it, gold is over, in the long term. The fact that it could increase 200% or whatever doesnt proove anything. People are generally not interested in gold anymore. And gold speculation / investment is not equal to gold being restored as a main form of currency.

I have 2 gold rings and 2 gold necklaces, but only as a decoration, i would not use gold coins for trading. It;s not like tomorrow you will go into your supermarket and buy food with gold coins. Especially not now as the world citizenry is disarmed, you would not hold alot of wealth on you.

People are more confortable than that, and electronic payments, card payments (bitcoin debit card?)  and wire transfers are the future.

So bitcoin has a much shinyer future than gold. The middle ages are over my friend, welcome to the 21st century 

[Slunt]

So bitcoin has a much shinyer future than gold. The middle ages are over my friend, welcome to the 21st century 

I kinda agree with you. I used to want to buy and invest in some gold but bitcoin is likely a much better investment in my opinion and as far as currencies go it is far superior. Gold does still have it's uses though, but I think there's more money to be made in BTC if I'm being honest.

[deisik]

Falling sharply, wtf? Are you serious? Did you notice that the Y axis in your charts didn't start at 0? We see that the US gold reserves fell in 2002 from about 8150 to 8135 tonnes, which makes ridiculous 0.18%? Let's look at Germany. The chart looks convincing unless we calculate that its gold reserves fell only 1.77% in 10 years. The same is true for other charts as well. Whom are you really going to convince by these numbers?

And where are Italy and France here (3d and 4th top gold holders)?

Yes but not exactly "hoarding" aswell, its a downtrend or flat, not a 45 degree uptrend, so looks like they dont give a fuck about gold.

France and italy same thing:

How is it a downtrend? We see that the top gold holders in the developed world keep their gold position unchanged at least for the last 5 years. The US' gold position didn't change significantly at all for the last 15 years. Why do they keep their gold if they don't give a fuck about it? Don't forget that just keeping gold takes a huge amount of money in expenses and costs...

Ah c`mon stop with those excuses, no matter what proof i show you you always try to make excuses.

Just realize it, gold is over, in the long term. The fact that it could increase 200% or whatever doesnt proove anything. People are generally not interested in gold anymore. And gold speculation / investment is not equal to gold being restored as a main form of currency.

So why do central banks of the most developed countries continue to keep their huge stashes of gold if they don't give a shit? The US gold reserves make about 4% of all gold in the world including jewelery... How come really?

[GreenStox]

So why do central banks of the most developed countries continue to keep their huge stashes of gold if they don't give a shit? The US gold reserves make about 4% of all gold in the world including jewelery... How come really?

Well goverments are not exactly the most efficient keepers of wealth. Even 90% of your taxes get wasted in corruption or bureocracy and 10% goes back into welfare and subsidy.

And even if you say that in central banks only professionals work, doesnt matter, they might have risk management teams who tell them when to buy/sell things to ease the balance sheet.

How do I know whats the plan of the CB with the gold. They might hold it or they might buy more.

But still the average people wont be interested in it, and sooner of later the CB will realize that too, and then they will drop it.

[aminorex]

CBs holding reserves do not care whether retail likes gold.  They need to deal with prospects of geopolitical instability, which includes all the tail risk scenarios discounted to zero by the investment community.  Under conditions of declining international tensions, CBs were net sellers.  Under conditions of rising geopolitical risk, they will be net buyers.

[OROBTC]

...

Another point, hinted by recent posts here, is that the World has already chosen gold!

The central banks do not own silver or platinum.  Nor even uranium.  They own gold.  Humanity freely chose gold as the numeraire (Store of Value) millennia ago.

But, I still think that Bitcoin and gold is better than the either one alone.

Fishez!

[cabsav]

if a chance get both.if you like risk get bitcoin if yo dont like risk get gold.

[Amph]

if a chance get both.if you like risk get bitcoin if yo dont like risk get gold.

if you want to gain something in the end you need to go with bitcoin, gold will not offer you any real profit, the market isn't moving at all(variations of 10% at best), while with bitcoin if you are a good trader you can earn a lot just by shorting

[bittyfree]

Bitcoin is better

Gold looks better

[lexuz]

Of course bitcoin, hope bitcoin price will be better this year

[GreenStox]

CBs holding reserves do not care whether retail likes gold.  They need to deal with prospects of geopolitical instability, which includes all the tail risk scenarios discounted to zero by the investment community.  Under conditions of declining international tensions, CBs were net sellers.  Under conditions of rising geopolitical risk, they will be net buyers.

Yes but without the retail supporting them, its just a ponzi scheme between central banks. If there is no consumer or any other end-user demand except central banks, then its only an armed grenade that they pass between eachother hands hoping to blow off on the enemy's hand.

Not to mention how stupid it can be to buy an instrument that has not backing at all. And in this scenario gold is also fiat money 

Weather you like it or not but Bitcoin has much more appeal: trendy futuristik 1 click & pay curreny with no capital controls and no barriers, globally available. (more merchants accept bitcoin than gold)

Gold: ancient age, obsolete and heavy coin that is hardly divisible, easy to steal and not that "trendy" in the young minds, except for jewelry but nor as a currency. (i bet you wont find any restaurant that accepts gold coins as payment, whereas you will for bitcoin)

Now choose which one has more potential in the future? 

[Aggressor66]

Right now, Crypto is the better choice to invest in. Just like gold, cryptocurrencies have a "production cost", in this case, the cost of mining. Once a coin goes under that price level, miners will jump ship and the price will go up as downward price pressure from mining disappears. Gold works the same way, if the price of Gold would fall below the cost of mining, production would slow down and Gold would become more rare. In this sense, fundamentals for Gold and Crypto are very much the same.

[GreenStox]

Right now, Crypto is the better choice to invest in. Just like gold, cryptocurrencies have a "production cost", in this case, the cost of mining. Once a coin goes under that price level, miners will jump ship and the price will go up as downward price pressure from mining disappears. Gold works the same way, if the price of Gold would fall below the cost of mining, production would slow down and Gold would become more rare. In this sense, fundamentals for Gold and Crypto are very much the same.

Yes but in bitcoin the miners dont affect the inflation, whereeas in gold they do.

Suppose some alien spaceship technology can extract 1000 tons of gold from below the earths crust, every single day, now that will push the gold price really low.

Except for bitcoin, there are only 25 bitcoin mined / 10 minutes, and weather more miners come or go, or the difficulty changes, it wont affect this.

So technically speeking the more miners are here the better for bitcoin, becase they dont inflate the netwrok, but they secure it, and less chance for a 51% attack.

[BTCevo]

...

Another point, hinted by recent posts here, is that the World has already chosen gold!

The central banks do not own silver or platinum.  Nor even uranium.  They own gold.  Humanity freely chose gold as the numeraire (Store of Value) millennia ago.

But, I still think that Bitcoin and gold is better than the either one alone.

Fishez!

Bank doesnt have power to control the bitcoin thats why manypeople get some gold for their investment, but still some of them invest in bitcoin so it really depends which one do you want to choose. Rather gold or bitcoin is good for a great investment

[deisik]

CBs holding reserves do not care whether retail likes gold.  They need to deal with prospects of geopolitical instability, which includes all the tail risk scenarios discounted to zero by the investment community.  Under conditions of declining international tensions, CBs were net sellers.  Under conditions of rising geopolitical risk, they will be net buyers.

Yes but without the retail supporting them, its just a ponzi scheme between central banks. If there is no consumer or any other end-user demand except central banks, then its only an armed grenade that they pass between eachother hands hoping to blow off on the enemy's hand.

Not to mention how stupid it can be to buy an instrument that has not backing at all. And in this scenario gold is also fiat money 

It is really fascinating that you keep repeating the same nonsense again and again. I can explain to you why CBs stick to gold. You may think them idiots (as in fact you do), but they are not. They are not idiots, and they know that other central bankers are no idiots either. They also know that in case of some disaster, be it a war or some natural devastation, no one in the world would give a fuck about their fiat money, but everyone will take gold as payment. It has been so through the whole history of mankind, and, I'm afraid, nothing has changed since then...

[OROBTC]

...

deisik raises three points that are absolutely correct:

1)  Central Wankers (erm, Bankers) are not idiots at all, they are highly educated peopl with lots of trade experience, know IT, etc.

2)  Central Bankers, for reasons I do not understand, trust OTHER C.B.'ers much more than one would think.

3)  There is ALWAYS someone around who will take your gold as payment...

[pitham1]

3)  There is ALWAYS someone around who will take your gold as payment...

The same could be true of Bitcoin in a couple of years.