Buy the DIP, and HODL!

[JayJuanGee]

I can't be that conscious to invest due to bitcoin price is increasing rapidly, you most at least scrutinised the market and understand the next movement of Bitcoin through the chat or move of candles sticks, probably, we need to know that is not all about investing but understand the system firstmany of you is curious to invest when the price of bitcoin increasing and you feel is the best time to accumulate your bitcoin.

A beginner don't need to understand anything about the next movement of bitcoin or read candle sticks or charts because they are irrelevant. The reason why I said that they are irrelevant is because that investor does not want to trade. What you stated are for traders, a new beginner that plans to hodli for long will not run at loss and can buy bitcoin anytime either in the bull market or in the bear market. This is because his aim is to accumulate as many bitcoin as possible overtime and does not have plans of selling. If a new investor buys his first bitcoin during the bull run because he feels he needs to start right away, and continue to DCA every week or every month regularly without skipping on week or month, you will see that he will also buy bitcoin during the bear season till the next bull run. His average bitcoin price will be balanced and he will be in profit in the next 4 years even if bitcoin price have not passed when he bought his first bitcoin.

You are not really wrong Ruttoshi, yet there still is some need to not overly generalize because surely even within classes of investors there can be some that are more aggressive and some that are less aggressive, which will likely affect the way they accumulate bitcoin, and the extent to which they might remain focused on maximizing their bitcoin accumulation and/or balancing other aspects of their lives and even other investments that they make (and I am not even referring to bitcoin).

Another thing that we know about people generally is that there are not a lot of people who invest in the first place, so really an overwhelming majority of people either don't invest at all or they have trouble even consistently conjuring around 10% of their income in order to invest into bitcoin or anything else, so in that regards, those who do invest tend to either put money into properties or maybe they have some kind of a retirement plan that involves personal contributions - which even the employer might match some of the contributions to incentivize the utilization of such programs.  In countries that do not have some of those systems, it is likely even more difficult to invest  or save, and if there is concerns about the debasement of the currency, that creates additional disincentives to keep any value in the local currency - so yeah, the investors into bitcoin come from a relatively small group of folks who might even learn that bitcoin ends up being an option that is superior to other ways that they might save or invest, so they may well become encouraged to invest into bitcoin and surely to figure out the extent that they have discretionary income that can be used for such purposes.

So this is why much knowledge about the market is not needed but on to buy and transfer to your hardware wallet, because you don't need to distract yourself about the price of bitcoin, you are only focus on buying. You should also note that the price of bitcoin increases overtime, and it is not easy to know the next movement of bitcoin price, and it is very stressful to read charts and candle as a beginner who has the money to start his bitcoin investment right away. Even traders lose a lot because they find it difficult to know the next bitcoin price movement and read candles.

It means that the new beginner that is suppose to buy bitcoin at 67k now will take a lot of time studing without any bitcoin, might end up buying at higher price or will miss the quantity of bitcoin he is suppose to have accumulated because of learning what is not useful in bitcoin long term investment. The new investor just like @JJG use to advise can start accumulating and learn at the same time.

I agree with a lot of this to the extent that we still might recognize and appreciate that it is neither guaranteed that BTC prices will go up and there also can be some value to not become overly concerned about the extent to which the BTC holdings are in profits during the earliest of years of accumulation, and even to take it for granted that they are going to end up in profits, even though surely there is a preference that the holdings do end up being in profits at some point and also there is a hope that the BTC holdings generally outperform other places that value could be place - especially in the longer term, but none of that is guaranteed either.  So the position size and or the amount that is invested into bitcoin should be tailored to consider various potential scenarios in which bitcoin might fail to perform or there might be other better places to invest.  Yeah, surely many of us are likely continuing to focus on bitcoin, even though the strength of its investment thesis is not guaranteed to continue to be strong - even while it currently seems to be amongst the best (if not the best place) to put extra value (aka discretionary income).

[edited out]

I don't also get the point on why they should rush to invest on bitcoin since they might fall taking bad decision if they didn't planned well their accumulation and think about that they might come up late. As an investor you really need to consider first what is your potential plan to do and there's should be good budget plan so to avoid any bad complication on each investment choices they make.

You can do whatever you want. If you believe waiting and studying the bitcoin matter sufficiently/adequately helps you to prepare for up, then that is your choice.

If you don't start investing right away, then you are not preparing for up.

You might believe that it is not necessary to prepare for up.  That is your choice.

Another thing is that the mere fact that you are starting to invest, does not mean that you jump in with all of your savings and/or disposable income right from the start.  There are ways to start with a reasonable position size, and the less you know, the more likely the smaller your initial position size, including maybe the newbie just starts by investing $10 into bitcoin and the tries to figure matters out further from there in terms of the level of his  investment aggressiveness, the frequency of his BTC purchases, his own financial matters including cashflow and discretionary income and the other 9 individual matters, but each of those 9 individual matters is like a moving target in which studying them and learning about them is never completely completed.

How can one make move for investing without understanding risk involved, this is solely the reason many are crying because of such impression of which they become liquidity for others.

Yep.. A lot of newbies fail/refuse to get started investing into bitcoin because they believe that they are merely serving as liquidity for others, and too bad for a lot of them who historically had thought that (and failed to get started) and those who continue to fail/appreciate the value of getting started rather than just waiting around for price drops that may or may not end up happening.

it should be a task to beginners to ask such questions, because for me I know quite well that you want to become successful you most ask others the pathway that makes them to be successful, so I know very well that what makes people to join bitcoin investment without making research is out of desperation, while is good to advantages and the disadvantages of something you wants to venture into it before you enroll yourself.

Yes!! from what I bold I wasn't  directing the question  to you actually  I only picked the word Observe as in observing the market which I only see it as a way for short term investment

Yes.. and another interpretation of "observe" is to wait... which surely is not a good investment strategy - especially in regards to bitcoin.

You seem to be fighting with the idea of discretionary income, which seems like a semantics fight rather than a substantive fight... since surely you seem to realize and recognize that there may well be limits on how much any of us is able to invest into bitcoin on a weekly/monthly basis and there are ways that we can attempt to prioritize our expenses.. or even work on ways to increase our income.. .. so yeah, no problem with providing examples in which priorities might be changed and still be within bounds of discretionary income in order to invest into bitcoin or however else a person might choose to invest his time, money and/or energies.

Apparently, it sounds like I'm obviously fighting the idea of discretionary income but perhaps I'm only of the opinion that some kind of folks prioritize luxury or some kind of lifestyle thats not healthy at some point over investment, which is irrational to an extent. From a clear point one can increase his or her work life, do extra jobs to achieve his or her preferences but not cutting down a good quantity of their supposed investment capital to fulfill some kind of lifestyle that could put on hold for a moment hence achieving a necessity like bitcoin investment.

There is ONLY so much that I can do in terms of presenting the ideas, and attempting to point out where I believe that your thinking is problematic, and sure maybe it is possible that we still arrive at the same place since we are considering similar ideas but instead placing some of the ideas in extra categories.

There is nothing wrong with prioritizing investments and even cutting various kinds of consumption that you do in order to increase your discretionary income, but still in the end, the investment is coming from extra money that you have that is calculated after you have considered your expenses, and the mere fact that you are wanting to give the investment equal priority (or similar priority) as compared with expenses that you might have is still likely coming out of the fact that you actually have discretionary income, even if you might be calling it something else... and maybe even if you are suggesting that you can go without some of your expenses and still be fine, which shows that they were not basic expenses but instead somewhat discretionary expenses and people are going to likely draw the line in different places in regards to which expenses are needed versus which ones are luxuries and also considerations if their body is strong enough to eat some foods with inferior ingredients that might cost less than the more nutritious options.

[edited out]

Sometimes ago I was reading one of your works @JayJuanGee where I came across @bitmover saying he was going to continue accumulating bitcoin after some quality conversations with you JJG, I felt at that point he must have been feeling his accumulations was already perfect for himslef but after few constructive discussions he then realised the need for him to keep accumulating bitcoin.

~Edited out~

I have about 30% in bitcoin. I was worried about that as I considered it a lot.

However,  after recents discussions with you JJG, and some recent thoughts about the market , I stopped selling for a while. I will try to increase it.✂️

I had a few back and forth discussions with bitmover in regards to the two main tools in my sustainable withdrawal thread, so many times I had attempted to emphasize with bitmover and with other forum members that I presume that the context of using either of the two main sustainable withdrawal tools is to get your BTC holdings to a point of over-accumulation first, so it becomes more problematic (but not impossible) to use the sustainable withdrawal tools that I am suggesting (and within the context that I am suggesting them) without first reaching high levels of BTC accumulation and/or perhaps coming to an assessment that you had actually overly accumulated BTC.  

The two sustainable withdrawal tools that describe (one time based and the other price based) could also be used in some trading contexts - even though I do consider them to be more valuable when assessed from a perspective of having had already reached some level of BTC over accumulation.. so I am pretty sure that bitmover was considering my comments in that light and coming to his own assessment that he likely had not yet accumulated enough BTC in order to be starting to employ much if any BTC selling tools.. .. another thing that I frequently spout is that selling BTC is not a good strategy for accumulating BTC, and so it sometimes can take a lot of time to get out of the selling mindset since many of us likely realize that in theory selling higher and buying lower will allow the buying of more BTC than the amount sold.. but just because there is a good and/or reasonable theory that does not necessarily mean that it is a good thing to actually attempt to practice rather than mostly focusing on various buying strategies, such as DCA, buying on dips and lump sum buying.

Maybe if indeed when we enter the total monthly investment expenses plus our needs for 1 month it will seem to be misleading but in this case I personally distinguish the calculation notes to make it easier for myself to manage the finances that I do.
For example, this month I have an income of around $300 a month and I spend $200 for personal needs and around $50 to buy bitcoin. I will make different notes for investments where indeed in the ledger the financial records will definitely remain $250 as this month's expenses but when talking about bitcoin we definitely need another record where there must be a record in the expenses we make for the purchase of bitcoin so that we know how much we have spent on bitcoin while we are here and that in my opinion is important as a consideration and as a belief that in the end being in bitcoin is profitable so that we don't not know how much of our money we spend on bitcoin and how much profit we can take.

But indeed in the end maybe this depends on what we are comfortable doing because the most important thing in this case is that we don't mess around with the way we manage money regardless of the different ways that are done and the mention of something in the end the goal remains the same, namely bitcoin investment.

In your example, if a guy is buying bitcoin with 25% of his expenses (50/200), then after about 4 years, the guy would have invested a whole year's worth of his expenses into bitcoin.. .So that would not be a bad place to be in terms of building a BTC holdings that has greater chances of getting him to fuck you status or some kind of a status in which he can start to employ sustainable withdrawal.

I wonder how important your ideas about profit taking is?  Sure we want to be in profits or even presume ourselves to be in profits with the passage of time, yet if the guy in your example continues with his practice of investing 25% of his expenses into bitcoin per year for 12 years, he has therefore invested 3 years worth of his expenses into bitcoin at the 12 year mark.  So then maybe the other question might be how bitcoin ended up performing over that time in order to allow the amount invested to grow at least with the cost of living increases and perhaps more than that. ... even though there are no guarantees...

So I am not necessarily going to presume regarding how much profits the guy might be in, yet I would suggest that the value of his holdings may well help to guide him in regards to whether he needs to continue to invest/accumulate bitcoin or if he might bd ready to start to employ some other strategies that might either be just maintenance or perhaps getting into various kinds of withdrawal practices, whether that would be time-based withdrawals and/or raking kinds of strategies.

Surely we make our own assessments regarding where we are at and how we might want to replace and/or supplement our income with bitcoin withdrawals if we happen to get ourselves into such a position.

okay indirectly you are saying that maybe in this case the accumulation is too big but as long as we are able then why not because after all this is not about our own ability in the end right? say indeed it is 25 percent of total income if indeed they can cover it then I think it is not a problem because after all when we are in something (including in bitcoin) then indeed we must be able to consider for some period of time ahead and again in this case I prefer to divide it periodically so for 12 years it is too long for me so 5 years is enough and when you consider the performance of bitcoin during that period (I want to take 5 years) as the timeframe I'm using right now and with the economy getting tougher in the end it's also predictable and we're also not likely to just stay at $300 for personal income because when the economy goes up then in this case the salary in our job usually follows in order to be balanced and that's been happening in the last few years so in the end when we can afford to make 25 percent of the initial budget then it's not a problem as long as we're willing to accept the risk.
In addition, returning to the initial discussion about capital in the end this is also important because investment can also be a business and we must know how much we spend on accumulating bitcoins that we buy from the beginning to a certain extent consistently and how much profit we get after we invest in that period of time. It becomes an important part because after all we are in bitcoin is for profit and financial freedom so the profit factor even though it is only a figurative expression because the bitcoin remains the same only the value is different must still be considered.

I don't disagree with anything that you are saying surely guys might have some difficult times figuring out what there investment timeline is exactly, even if they might consider that they have a relatively long investment timeline of 4-10 years or longer.. or even 10 yers or longer rather than your example of 5 years.. but even at 5 years, there could be a concern about reassessment, even though no one should consider that he is so locked into his investment that he is not able to reassess and tweak from time to time, which also might be considering changing the amounts he is putting in and the timeline and other ways that he is managing his budget, and also if he might have some lifestyle  considerations that he is accounting for that causes him to want to consider that he might start to cash out of his bitcoin in 5 years or so rather than allowing the investment to ride for longer.

[promise444c5]

it should be a task to beginners to ask such questions, because for me I know quite well that you want to become successful you most ask others the pathway that makes them to be successful, so I know very well that what makes people to join bitcoin investment without making research is out of desperation, while is good to advantages and the disadvantages of something you wants to venture into it before you enroll yourself.

Yes!! from what I bold I wasn't  directing the question  to you actually  I only picked the word Observe as in observing the market which I only see it as a way for short term investment

Yes.. and another interpretation of "observe" is to wait... which surely is not a good investment strategy - especially in regards to bitcoin.

Exactly... its pointless waiting to observe market for what?? Better chance they say which might even be a forever loop 
Bitcoin  waits for nobody... observing can also be used but that should be for those already  in the game and nor even new to it , it could be taking as a factor to buying more Dips which is not bad but on the other hand, I don't know what a beginner who haven't invested a dime observe
DCA and DCA and more DCA  should be the main focus of a beginner .
Although, we can say a beginner wants to learn a proper way to DCA (more appropriate)

[JayJuanGee]

Normally, buying bitcoin in the bear market is the best time to accumulate bitcoin because we will accumulate more bitcoin with a lesser amount of money, and the bear market will facilitate us to achieve the quantity of bitcoin we want to hold because bitcoin is always cheap at that time. For instance, just like JayJuanGee accumulated most of his bitcoin holdings in the bear market, when bitcoin was very cheap, it helped him achieve the quantity of bitcoin he wanted to hold quickly. JayJuanGee can decide not to accumulate bitcoin again because he has already accumulated enough bitcoin, which is very much okay for him. But that doesn't mean that accumulating bitcoin when the price is at its peak or bitcoin halving has happened is bad. It only means you will be accumulating bitcoin when it is expensive, and you will need good capital to help you accumulate a good quantity of bitcoin on time because the demand for bitcoin is high, scarce, and expensive to accumulate.

You might be mischaracterizing a bit my  own BTC accumulation journey, since I did not particularly go out to buy and/or accumulate bitcoin in a bear market, and none of us is likely going to know whether we are in a bear market or not or which way the BTC price is going to go for the short to medium term.

So any kind of suggestion that it is best to determine and/or figure out if we are in a bear market prior to engaging in BTC accumulation and/or aggressive BTC accumulation seems to be quite misleading  - and it could cause newbies to wait rather than getting started ASAP..

If you don't have any BTC, then what are you going to do wait for lower prices from here?  Or if the BTC price does not go down from here, then you are going to wait for after it goes up and then when it comes back down, but to where is it going to come back down?

I cannot see how waiting could be a strategy for anyone who might have assessed that he does not have any coins or that he does not have enough coins.

Sure, some folks might come to a wrong assessment that they do not need any BTC, and sure they can do what they like, but they are likely going to end up buying later and at higher prices, so again, why wait?

There are some folks who are worried about price dips coming, and perhaps those kinds of folks will feel better if they hold some funds aside for buying on dips, but even that seems like a questionable strategy for anyone who either does not have any coins or does not have very many coins.

~~~

Normally, buying bitcoin in the bear market is the best time to accumulate bitcoin because we will accumulate more bitcoin with a lesser amount of money, and the bear market will facilitate us to achieve the quantity of bitcoin we want to hold because bitcoin is always cheap at that time. For instance, just like JayJuanGee accumulated most of his bitcoin holdings in the bear market, when bitcoin was very cheap, it helped him achieve the quantity of bitcoin he wanted to hold quickly. JayJuanGee can decide not to accumulate bitcoin again because he has already accumulated enough bitcoin, which is very much okay for him. But that doesn't mean that accumulating bitcoin when the price is at its peak or bitcoin halving has happened is bad. It only means you will be accumulating bitcoin when it is expensive, and you will need good capital to help you accumulate a good quantity of bitcoin on time because the demand for bitcoin is high, scarce, and expensive to accumulate.

The example shown by JayJuanGee can be used by anyone who wants to get Bitcoin when the price is cheap and indirectly he also teaches Bitcoin investors to take advantage of this moment to collect as much Bitcoin as possible. This method is very easy to do, buying at a cheap price and selling it again when the price is high is the goal of investors to get the profit they want. Accumulating Bitcoin when the market is entering a bearish phase will make you calmer and able to hold Bitcoin in the long term without having to worry about the price going down further. The great potential that Bitcoin always presents will allow you to collect Bitcoin at a cheap price in greater quantities.

Collecting Bitcoin when the price is at its peak will make you have to wait longer to get a profit, usually when the price has reached the peak it will experience a sidway which makes your assets experience a decrease in value. I prefer the method used by JayJuanGee because it will give you peace of mind when investing and has the potential to get bigger profits. Another advantage of buying Bitcoin when the price is cheap is that you don't have to wait long, usually the market will experience a Bullish phase after a downturn in a Bearish period.

You are saying a similar thing as Mayor of ogba, which is not what I say, and I surely don't know about what to do when the BTC price goes up... I am not recommending anyone wait, even if the BTC price is going up.. since we can never really know when the BTC price is going to stop going up and we cannot presume a correction, a dip or a bear market...

I am also saying that the longer any of us is in bitcoin and we are continuing to buy bitcoin, there likely are going to be periods in which the BTC price is going down rather than up, but we never know how low the BTC price is going to go or how long the seemingly relatively lower prices are going to continue to stay low.

So yeah, if we are accumulating bitcoin over a whole cycle or even over a couple of cycles, we are going to likely begin to appreciate better that there are periods that the BTC price seems low, but also the longer that we are in, we would have had already spent a considerable amount of time already buying bitcoin and probably some of the bitcoin that we bought is going to be at higher prices and some of the bitcoin that we bought is going to be at lower prices. .. so there is going to be a mixture of prices in which we had bought our bitcoin and we can calculate our average price per bitcoin too and we can calculate the extent to which we might be in profits or not.. so those kinds of calculations regarding our bitcoin stash size, its value and where we want to get are more likely to inform us in regards to what we are going to want to do... so it might become obvious in our own context, but not obvious in the abstract, and in the abstract my overall suggestion is just to keep buying no matter what the price for at least a whole cyle, and depending on your own level of buying, you may well need to just keep buying for a couple of cycles before you might start to feel comfortable to modify your approach in a way that attempts to calculate dips rather than just ongoingly buying BTC at any price within the context of your discretionary budget.. and not waiting for dips that may or may not end up happening..

[edited out]

You are still struggling a little with what a discretional income is, investing from our discretional or disposable income doesn't mean in any way that we are neglecting our investment in bitcoin and doesn't mean that its some kind of left over or little amount.

A discretional income is what is left after we have taken out the money for our necessary expenses, I think i already gave you an illustrative the last time but I think I'll have to start all over,
Mr A is earning a 1000$ and lives in a small house with little bills to pay, so after he has taken out his necessary bills and expenses he ends up with 500$ in his discretionary income and can decide to keep an extra 100$ for floats and invest the rest into bitcoin on a weekly basis and this is achieved because he has little expenses to make and hence his discretionary income is bigger after he has removed the necessary expenses.
Mr B can also be earning same amount and has a higher expenses based on the kind of house he chose to live and lifestyle he has so he winds up with only 300$ as a discretional income after after his expense and decides to keep an extra 150 floats for enjoying himself and invest 150$ into bitcoin.

So in essence the discretional income is determined by how much of an expense the person has and how much he can avoid out of his income, and at same time it's also possible that the person can chose to favour other things than bitcoin investment with his discretionary income.

Your example is not bad Troytech, yet I am considering that you are trying to suggest that both Mr. A and Mr. B have the same discretionary income, but they choose to spend their discretionary income in different ways..... so Mr. B is actually spending more money on luxury items of consumption.. so therefore he ends up with less discretionary income after he had made his choices, but largely they started out with very similar levels of discretionary income, especially if we were to really drill down into basics.  There can be some guys who choose to live in a house that has $500 in monthly expenses and another in $800 of monthly expenses, so whether we call the left over discretionary income or not, might be another story since sometimes life choices can take a while to change and even to figure out if it is possible to cut some of the expenses once they had been chosen several years back, yet anyone can still make changes little by little...and maybe even realizing that some of the ways that he is spending his money is actually discretionary, even though he might have had labelled it as needed expenses.  We might be belaboring some of these points too much.
 

What those people need to know that short term investment bring more higher risk to them than investing on bitcoin for long term that's why they should focus on things that can actually give them high chance to earn. And in process they should consider to learn certain flaws that can affect their investment decision so that they could earn success and they will not get easily bother by anything that might happen in future. Its interesting to see that now there's a lot of people is engaging with this hodl discussions since we can learn a lot of knowledge coming from multiple source that can help us became more better investor.

I bold the part about how many are falling for scams. Because of the thought that are given to them about aiming to earn with high chance. Well no doubt doing it on Bitcoin gives them that but if they're going to focus on it, they might just land to the scamming tactics of cons.

Are you going to delay your investment into bitcoin based on your speculation that you might get scammed?  How much of a delay are you going to make?  Does the possibility that you might get scammed stop you from investing $10, $100, $1k, $10k?  At what point does it become more important?

Surely I am not suggesting that anyone is sloppy in their various personal safeguards, but there are likely levels of BTC accumulation that might be able to take place by holding BTC in various 3rd parties even prior to transporting to self-custody - so yeah, the larger the amounts of the investment, then then more urgent the need to employ higher levels of security... and those security thresholds are likely going to trigger at different points for different folks - while at the same time, it seems a bit problematic if anyone is failing/refusing to start to invest into bitcoin because they believe that they need to better learn things about bitcoin security.

Perhaps you're probably correct, about your assumption that how much of your discretionary or disposable income is what determines how much you should invest rather than how much you earn, but I'd like to point out to you @Tmoonz that you're wrong from a different view point; bitcoin investment is not a default option in which you must invest what you have at your discretion; it's an important choice that should be taken seriously.

Perhaps when one talks about investing in bitcoin, it is supposed to be a very important part of one's life that is worth cutting other expenses to increase the rate and/or level of your investment; your lifestyle can wait for a moment, but bitcoin cannot, so you must sometimes not make yourself too comfortable by investing a small portion of your income in bitcoin, instead take it upon yourself to make a better portion of your income count by investing it in bitcoin. For instance, if you earn $200 per week and your weekly spending for the so-called lifestyle is $190, and you have roughly $10 in discretionary or disposable income, is that a good investment? Absolutely not! So it's basically how much you earn and a percentage you're willing to give for the future, rather than what's in your disposable income, because bitcoin isn't like shitcoin, where you can put whatever you want, but you decide how much of your income should be invested in your long-term investment scheme.

I think it's not a problem, okay maybe it would be great if we could minimize the expenses that we will do because after all it becomes a plus because with that we can be more free to be in bitcoin with a little bigger but in the end we also have to realize that we don't need to force it directly because investing in bitcoin is not a compulsion and the initial benchmark is still how ready you are to lose and we also have to see how much budget we really have to fulfill consistently so that what we do in investing in bitcoin does not eat up the budget of the others.

With this in mind if indeed we have around $200 of income and we have to spend $190 for our needs then there is no problem if indeed it is only $10 because this is our ability. although indeed in terms of profit also in the end it will not be much different but if indeed we can afford it only that much then still do it because forcing it to be more can ultimately burden yourself in the future.

See this matter of investing in bitcoin is also something we should take seriously as much as we need to plan for our daily needs, we also have to understand that needs don't finish and they keeps coming up on daily basis, but as much as we have to take care of other things we have to understand that we have to take our investment in bitcoin very serious too. If someone is making a monthly income of $200 and he is investing only $10 I think it's very poor. If you are making monthly income of $200 you should at least invest 10% of the money which is $20 and I don't think it's too much. If $190 can carry you for a month, I think $180 will equally be enough to carry you for the moment. In as much as we are investing, we should also target to have a reasonable amount of fraction of bitcoin and to accumulate it, we have to make some certain level of sacrifice.

Sure I am all for investing 10% or more of the income, but we cannot know if discretionary income is sufficient to be able to invest 10% in cases in which we might not know expenses and $200 is a pretty low income to expect (or presume) that such a person is able to invest - even though I know that a lot of participants in this thread claim to have income levels in such low amounts.

[edited out]

A lump-sum buy doesn't necessarily mean you have to wait for the bitcoin price to dip before you can lump-sum. You can decide to start your bitcoin investment with a lump sum buy to help you accumulate a good quantity of bitcoin, and after that, you can stick with the DCA strategy to accumulate bitcoin either weekly or monthly. Unless you are on bitcoin for short-term profit, that is when technical analysis comes into play to help you read the market and have a clue when to buy bitcoin so that it will not affect you not to take your short-term profit when the bitcoin price is high. Secondly, technical analysis will delay your bitcoin accumulation journey because you will be waiting for the result of what you analyzed to happen before you can accumulate bitcoin, and if it doesn't happen, you will not accumulate bitcoin. That's why it's good to be in bitcoin for the long term so that you will not need any technical analysis skills before you can accumulate bitcoin. If buying the dip is your problem, the DCA strategy is here to help you achieve that because you will be accumulating bitcoin even when the price is increasing or decreasing.

Of course, buy the dip, DCA and lump sum are three separate concepts, and sometimes they can be combined, but the mere fact that they can be combined does not mean that each of them should not be understood in terms of what each of the concepts mean on its own... is there a need to repeat what each means?

Maybe just in regards to lump sum.... it is an amount that you already have and you are considering what to do with it.  Buy all right away, or divide it up.

Another thing that a lump sum could be accumulated into the future.. . or there could be an amount of money that is being saved, but it is not really known how it is going to be used until at a later date... that money could be considered lump sum.. even though it also could be considered part of reserves that are building up and perhaps without any specific designation regarding how such reserves are going to be used - except maybe some kind of an event might trigger that such funds are to be considered to be used and/or maybe a whole rethinking of such funds upon certain future currently unknown events.. and so then some of that amount could become a lump sum amount that becomes available for the purpose of BTC investing.

We cannot necessarily presume lump sum to even be an option, since sometimes people come to bitcoin an they don't already have cash available and/or they might not even have other investments from which they would be able to employ lump sums, so sometimes it does not even make sense to presume lump sum as an option when it is not automatically an option that normal people end up having and even if they were to have some lump sum potentiality, they would first have to designate such amount towards bitcoin investing, which might be an actual obstacle for some folks in which DCA makes more sense for them since they are not ready, willing or able to redesignate some lump sum amount that they might have towards bitcoin investing.

[Smilevictorobinna]

~~~

Normally, buying bitcoin in the bear market is the best time to accumulate bitcoin because we will accumulate more bitcoin with a lesser amount of money, and the bear market will facilitate us to achieve the quantity of bitcoin we want to hold because bitcoin is always cheap at that time. For instance, just like JayJuanGee accumulated most of his bitcoin holdings in the bear market, when bitcoin was very cheap, it helped him achieve the quantity of bitcoin he wanted to hold quickly. JayJuanGee can decide not to accumulate bitcoin again because he has already accumulated enough bitcoin, which is very much okay for him. But that doesn't mean that accumulating bitcoin when the price is at its peak or bitcoin halving has happened is bad. It only means you will be accumulating bitcoin when it is expensive, and you will need good capital to help you accumulate a good quantity of bitcoin on time because the demand for bitcoin is high, scarce, and expensive to accumulate.

The example shown by JayJuanGee can be used by anyone who wants to get Bitcoin when the price is cheap and indirectly he also teaches Bitcoin investors to take advantage of this moment to collect as much Bitcoin as possible. This method is very easy to do, buying at a cheap price and selling it again when the price is high is the goal of investors to get the profit they want. Accumulating Bitcoin when the market is entering a bearish phase will make you calmer and able to hold Bitcoin in the long term without having to worry about the price going down further. The great potential that Bitcoin always presents will allow you to collect Bitcoin at a cheap price in greater quantities.

Collecting Bitcoin when the price is at its peak will make you have to wait longer to get a profit, usually when the price has reached the peak it will experience a sidway which makes your assets experience a decrease in value. I prefer the method used by JayJuanGee because it will give you peace of mind when investing and has the potential to get bigger profits. Another advantage of buying Bitcoin when the price is cheap is that you don't have to wait long, usually the market will experience a Bullish phase after a downturn in a Bearish period.

You are saying a similar thing as Mayor of ogba, which is not what I say, and I surely don't know about what to do when the BTC price goes up... I am not recommending anyone wait, even if the BTC price is going up.. since we can never really know when the BTC price is going to stop going up and we cannot presume a correction, a dip or a bear market...

I am also saying that the longer any of us is in bitcoin and we are continuing to buy bitcoin, there likely are going to be periods in which the BTC price is going down rather than up, but we never know how low the BTC price is going to go or how long the seemingly relatively lower prices are going to continue to stay low.

So yeah, if we are accumulating bitcoin over a whole cycle or even over a couple of cycles, we are going to likely begin to appreciate better that there are periods that the BTC price seems low, but also the longer that we are in, we would have had already spent a considerable amount of time already buying bitcoin and probably some of the bitcoin that we bought is going to be at higher prices and some of the bitcoin that we bought is going to be at lower prices. .. so there is going to be a mixture of prices in which we had bought our bitcoin and we can calculate our average price per bitcoin too and we can calculate the extent to which we might be in profits or not.. so those kinds of calculations regarding our bitcoin stash size, its value and where we want to get are more likely to inform us in regards to what we are going to want to do... so it might become obvious in our own context, but not obvious in the abstract, and in the abstract my overall suggestion is just to keep buying no matter what the price for at least a whole cyle, and depending on your own level of buying, you may well need to just keep buying for a couple of cycles before you might start to feel comfortable to modify your approach in a way that attempts to calculate dips rather than just ongoingly buying BTC at any price within the context of your discretionary budget.. and not waiting for dips that may or may not end up happening..

I don't know why some people are still waiting for the bitcoin price to drop down more before they buy their bitcoin, when they can use the benefit of the DCA method to accumulate as many bitcoins as they want at different prices. Waiting for the Bitcoin price might be a very wrong decision because the price of Bitcoin might just decide to keep moving up to start the main bull run. If it happens that way, the people who are waiting for the price drop have missed out on investing at a very low price.
If you are willing to invest in Bitcoin for a long-term investment, you can withdraw your Bitcoin at any time and still get your profit after some years.

[JayJuanGee]

Perhaps you're probably correct, about your assumption that how much of your discretionary or disposable income is what determines how much you should invest rather than how much you earn, but I'd like to point out to you @Tmoonz that you're wrong from a different view point; bitcoin investment is not a default option in which you must invest what you have at your discretion; it's an important choice that should be taken seriously.

Perhaps when one talks about investing in bitcoin, it is supposed to be a very important part of one's life that is worth cutting other expenses to increase the rate and/or level of your investment; your lifestyle can wait for a moment, but bitcoin cannot, so you must sometimes not make yourself too comfortable by investing a small portion of your income in bitcoin, instead take it upon yourself to make a better portion of your income count by investing it in bitcoin. For instance, if you earn $200 per week and your weekly spending for the so-called lifestyle is $190, and you have roughly $10 in discretionary or disposable income, is that a good investment? Absolutely not! So it's basically how much you earn and a percentage you're willing to give for the future, rather than what's in your disposable income, because bitcoin isn't like shitcoin, where you can put whatever you want, but you decide how much of your income should be invested in your long-term investment scheme.

I think it's not a problem, okay maybe it would be great if we could minimize the expenses that we will do because after all it becomes a plus because with that we can be more free to be in bitcoin with a little bigger but in the end we also have to realize that we don't need to force it directly because investing in bitcoin is not a compulsion and the initial benchmark is still how ready you are to lose and we also have to see how much budget we really have to fulfill consistently so that what we do in investing in bitcoin does not eat up the budget of the others.

With this in mind if indeed we have around $200 of income and we have to spend $190 for our needs then there is no problem if indeed it is only $10 because this is our ability. although indeed in terms of profit also in the end it will not be much different but if indeed we can afford it only that much then still do it because forcing it to be more can ultimately burden yourself in the future.

See this matter of investing in bitcoin is also something we should take seriously as much as we need to plan for our daily needs, we also have to understand that needs don't finish and they keeps coming up on daily basis, but as much as we have to take care of other things we have to understand that we have to take our investment in bitcoin very serious too. If someone is making a monthly income of $200 and he is investing only $10 I think it's very poor. If you are making monthly income of $200 you should at least invest 10% of the money which is $20 and I don't think it's too much. If $190 can carry you for a month, I think $180 will equally be enough to carry you for the moment. In as much as we are investing, we should also target to have a reasonable amount of fraction of bitcoin and to accumulate it, we have to make some certain level of sacrifice.

It is not extremely mandatory to invest a specific percentage of ones income, some persons might be in a situation where they have little or much to spare due to the size of their family and further upkeeps. The actual process is to take out all expenses and funds for reserve then these left overs can be used to invest, going above the spare funds might cause tragic reflexes to one's investment portfolio. I support the fact of investing a fair amount, as long your income is able to cover all expenses and still remain quite a reasonable amount then their should be no hesitate to invest the ideal percentage.

You are correct that the idea of discretionary income trumps the idea of some strict percentage to invest into bitcoin, even though both can be used as guidelines and/or even aspiration levels in regards to how much a person might want to strive to push himself to target for in his investment, but he still is going to be limited in terms of whether his target percentage is even achievable in light of his actual discretionary income.

So for example if a person knows his expenses are $1k per month, and if he is able to invest 10% of that, then that is $100 per month or $1,200 per year, or $12,000 over 10 years, so then we figure that it is going to take the guy right around 10 years to have had saved/invested 10 years worth of income into bitcoin... so that could help to target the amount and the timeline, but he still has to be able to do it.. so yeah, there cannot be contradictions, and when push comes to shove, there likely is still ONLY so much income coming in and ONLY so many expenses that can be cut.. even though people can work on attempting to being creative in terms of how they might be able to increase their discretionary income... so that it ends up being a higher percentage of their overall income/expenses... which means that they are likely to make more progress in a shorter period of time, as long as they do not end up overdoing it.

[edited out]

Exactly... its pointless waiting to observe market for what?? Better chance they say which might even be a forever loop 
Bitcoin  waits for nobody... observing can also be used but that should be for those already  in the game and nor even new to it , it could be taking as a factor to buying more Dips which is not bad but on the other hand, I don't know what a beginner who haven't invested a dime observe
DCA and DCA and more DCA  should be the main focus of a beginner .
Although, we can say a beginner wants to learn a proper way to DCA (more appropriate)

There is nothing wrong with engaging in techniques to improve DCA, which truly if someone is new to bitcoin, they might start with a certain weekly amount for their DCA, yet in the meantime, after several weeks, they could be figuring out various aspects of their budget and maybe how to employ their DCA better.  On a personal level, for the first year that I was in bitcoin, I tended to give myself a weekly DCA budget (or allowance), so during the week, I would try to maximize the buying on dips within the week, however, if I had not used all of the weekly allowance by a certain time of the week, I would just buy with the rest of it at that deadline time in each week, since my new weekly allowance would become available at the beginning of the next week... but yeah sometimes going through the process, with the passage of time, I was able to figure out some ways of employing my DCA that worked better for my own circumstances... but also recalculating my situation, that surely went even beyond the first year, since the strategies became different with the passage of time (as you suggested might become the case for anyone going through their BTC accumulation journey) and the fact that I had been accumulating BTC through the previous time and the details of that prior stacking in regards to how much, what was the average costs and considering whether my stacking goals were changing and/or close to being met, helped to inform any changes in my practices.

[Smilevictorobinna]

[edited out]

Exactly... its pointless waiting to observe market for what?? Better chance they say which might even be a forever loop 
Bitcoin  waits for nobody... observing can also be used but that should be for those already  in the game and nor even new to it , it could be taking as a factor to buying more Dips which is not bad but on the other hand, I don't know what a beginner who haven't invested a dime observe
DCA and DCA and more DCA  should be the main focus of a beginner .
Although, we can say a beginner wants to learn a proper way to DCA (more appropriate)

There is nothing wrong with engaging in techniques to improve DCA, which truly if someone is new to bitcoin, they might start with a certain weekly amount for their DCA, yet in the meantime, after several weeks, they could be figuring out various aspects of their budget and maybe how to employ their DCA better.  On a personal level, for the first year that I was in bitcoin, I tended to give myself a weekly DCA budget (or allowance), so during the week, I would try to maximize the buying on dips within the week, however, if I had not used all of the weekly allowance by a certain time of the week, I would just buy with the rest of it at that deadline time in each week, since my new weekly allowance would become available at the beginning of the next week... but yeah sometimes going through the process, with the passage of time, I was able to figure out some ways of employing my DCA that worked better for my own circumstances... but also recalculating my situation, that surely went even beyond the first year, since the strategies became different with the passage of time (as you suggested might become the case for anyone going through their BTC accumulation journey) and the fact that I had been accumulating BTC through the previous time and the details of that prior stacking in regards to how much, what was the average costs and considering whether my stacking goals were changing and/or close to being met, helped to inform any changes in my practices.

DCA recognizes that we can't know what the price will be at any given time. If you lump sum buy on any given day, you don't know if the price will be higher or lower in a week. So maybe buy today and miss out on a better price a week later. With DCA you don't have to worry about trying to guess the best time to buy.

And with Bitcoin, since we have something that basically supercharges Bitcoin investing - the 4 year market cycle - by telling us what periods of every four years we should be buying, we can then use that to our advantage and greatly increase the returns of DCA. So we can DCA only during the lower part of each 4 year cycle, like buying starting once Bitcoin has crashed a lot, and then continuing to buy until it goes above the old ATH, and then wait for the next crash, saving money in the meantime to be able to DCA with extra funds on the next bear market. And with DCA, instead of guessing when to buy during a bear market , and many people would likely lump sum well before the bottom, or assume a lower price is going to come which never does and then they have to lump sum well after the bottom, DCA allows buying consistently all through the bottom.

DCA removes the risk of being wrong about when to lump sum buy, and of course it also means people don't have to save up a bunch of money first before buying. Lump sum buying is ONLY better if you happen to have a bunch of money at an ideal time (bear market) and you guess well enough where the bottom is to get near it.

Getting lucky is not an investment strategy. DCA is the superior investment strategy that decreases risk, can be used strategically with Bitcoin to increase profits over a generic DCA, and is more likely to beat out lump sum buying for many people because of that less risk and timing the market with luck (guessing) not being an important part of DCA.

[Tmoonz]

We cannot necessarily presume lump sum to even be an option, since sometimes people come to bitcoin an they don't already have cash available and/or they might not even have other investments from which they would be able to employ lump sums, so sometimes it does not even make sense to presume lump sum as an option when it is not automatically an option that normal people end up having and even if they were to have some lump sum potentiality, they would first have to designate such amount towards bitcoin investing, which might be an actual obstacle for some folks in which DCA makes more sense for them since they are not ready, willing or able to redesignate some lump sum amount that they might have towards bitcoin investing.

I really understand what you are saying but it is very important and for everyone to have a broader knowledge of various strategies as it being exhaustibly disscued here in terms of figuring out from what financial stratification you belong to, and for reference purposes. However, the lump sum buying are mostly practice by those in upper class and not for some middle or lower class where identifying your class gives you the preparedness in terms of making an informed decisions towards your investment plan, it pointless for anyone presuming lump sum to be an option when apparently you don't have what takes, everyone has to figure out the class where he or she belongs to in terms of choice of strategies, be it dca , lump sum and the rest of them, which will be a hedge over your planning working towards a successful Bitcoin investment.

[MusaPk]

There is nothing wrong with engaging in techniques to improve DCA, which truly if someone is new to bitcoin, they might start with a certain weekly amount for their DCA, yet in the meantime, after several weeks, they could be figuring out various aspects of their budget and maybe how to employ their DCA better.  On a personal level, for the first year that I was in bitcoin, I tended to give myself a weekly DCA budget (or allowance), so during the week, I would try to maximize the buying on dips within the week, however, if I had not used all of the weekly allowance by a certain time of the week, I would just buy with the rest of it at that deadline time in each week, since my new weekly allowance would become available at the beginning of the next week... but yeah sometimes going through the process, with the passage of time, I was able to figure out some ways of employing my DCA that worked better for my own circumstances... but also recalculating my situation, that surely went even beyond the first year, since the strategies became different with the passage of time (as you suggested might become the case for anyone going through their BTC accumulation journey) and the fact that I had been accumulating BTC through the previous time and the details of that prior stacking in regards to how much, what was the average costs and considering whether my stacking goals were changing and/or close to being met, helped to inform any changes in my practices.

With DCA one can go with Limp Sum and buy the dip. It will some time for a person to figure out when to use the later two techniques (Lump Sum and buy the dip) with DCA. For sure, new one can go with DCA but they will get bored with it initially as Bitcoin spot price may go down and the profit might not be according to there expectations. This is where one has to keep control over his emotions and continue to invest despite the negative trends of the market. The main reason why many fail to get started with Bitcoin is because they left Bitcoin in early stages after seeing the loss. We have seen Bitcoin bouncing back from 4k in Dec 2018 and also from 18k last year. These falls are nothing but golden time to accumulate Bitcoins.   

[JayJuanGee]

We cannot necessarily presume lump sum to even be an option, since sometimes people come to bitcoin an they don't already have cash available and/or they might not even have other investments from which they would be able to employ lump sums, so sometimes it does not even make sense to presume lump sum as an option when it is not automatically an option that normal people end up having and even if they were to have some lump sum potentiality, they would first have to designate such amount towards bitcoin investing, which might be an actual obstacle for some folks in which DCA makes more sense for them since they are not ready, willing or able to redesignate some lump sum amount that they might have towards bitcoin investing.

I really understand what you are saying but it is very important and for everyone to have a broader knowledge of various strategies as it being exhaustibly disscued here in terms of figuring out from what financial stratification you belong to, and for reference purposes. However, the lump sum buying are mostly practice by those in upper class and not for some middle or lower class where identifying your class gives you the preparedness in terms of making an informed decisions towards your investment plan,

I don't really like to play into arguments that rich people are more privledged, since anyone could come into a situation in which they have lump sums available and they are willing to dedicate some or all of that lump sum to bitcoin investing.  For example they could 1) win the lottery, 2) inherit money, 3) have had been investing for 10 years and building their investment portfolio little by little (so they are not exactly rich, but they have been engaging in good savings/investing practices), 4) received a bonus at work for some kind of job they carried out (expected or not expected these kinds of things sometimes can happen to even less wealthy people), 5) they recalculated their various funds (emergency, reserves and float) and unexpectedly, they come to the conclusion that they have an extra $2k that they are able to invest 6) they received a gift from friend/relative/acquaintance and/or 7) a variety of other possible reason they could come accross extra money, whether that is some extra from their DCA amount or maybe it is a more modest amount

it pointless for anyone presuming lump sum to be an option when apparently you don't have what takes, everyone has to figure out the class where he or she belongs to in terms of choice of strategies, be it dca , lump sum and the rest of them, which will be a hedge over your planning working towards a successful Bitcoin investment.

My problem with the idea of lump sum is not that it might not ever be an option, but instead many times members here are weighing the advantages and disadvantages to lump sump as compared with DCA, and it is not even obvious that DCA is better in those circumstances that a person has a lump sum that happens to be available to him, and even if the lump sum happens to be available, the amount of the lump sum could still be divided into any of the three categories of bitcoin accumulation to buy right away with some of it, to allocate some for buying on dips and to allocate another portion for DCA buying.

The person  may or may not already have DCA and/or buying on dips in place.. or alternatively the person might already be DCAing at $10 per week (presuming a modest budget), but then if all of a sudden an additional $3k comes available.. there might be choices to allocate $1k to each of the three categories, and that is not even the most logical conclusion, but it is a staring point, and each person might decide differently based on his own 9 individual factors regarding how to allocate that extra $3k that suddenly had come available.

There is nothing wrong with engaging in techniques to improve DCA, which truly if someone is new to bitcoin, they might start with a certain weekly amount for their DCA, yet in the meantime, after several weeks, they could be figuring out various aspects of their budget and maybe how to employ their DCA better.  On a personal level, for the first year that I was in bitcoin, I tended to give myself a weekly DCA budget (or allowance), so during the week, I would try to maximize the buying on dips within the week, however, if I had not used all of the weekly allowance by a certain time of the week, I would just buy with the rest of it at that deadline time in each week, since my new weekly allowance would become available at the beginning of the next week... but yeah sometimes going through the process, with the passage of time, I was able to figure out some ways of employing my DCA that worked better for my own circumstances... but also recalculating my situation, that surely went even beyond the first year, since the strategies became different with the passage of time (as you suggested might become the case for anyone going through their BTC accumulation journey) and the fact that I had been accumulating BTC through the previous time and the details of that prior stacking in regards to how much, what was the average costs and considering whether my stacking goals were changing and/or close to being met, helped to inform any changes in my practices.

With DCA one can go with Limp Sum and buy the dip. It will some time for a person to figure out when to use the later two techniques (Lump Sum and buy the dip) with DCA. For sure, new one can go with DCA but they will get bored with it initially as Bitcoin spot price may go down and the profit might not be according to there expectations. This is where one has to keep control over his emotions and continue to invest despite the negative trends of the market. The main reason why many fail to get started with Bitcoin is because they left Bitcoin in early stages after seeing the loss. We have seen Bitcoin bouncing back from 4k in Dec 2018 and also from 18k last year. These falls are nothing but golden time to accumulate Bitcoins.  

We have to go with where we are at right now.  So if a person might be brand new to bitcoin, and he has an income of $2k per month and expenses of $1,500.. and maybe he already had been investing for 10 years, so he has an investment portfolio (non bitcoin) that is around $24k in value (which is right around 1 year of his salary)  and he has emergency funds and reserves and float in place, and so maybe he has $3k in cash that he can invest right now, or he can put some of that into the other two categories, but he already knows from his regular cashflow (disposable income) that he is able to buy $100 of bitcoin per week.  So he has to decide right now about what to to do with the $3k, and he cannot go back to December 2018 and he cannot even go back to December of 2022..

He has to figure it out right now, and if he is not sure, then he still has to live with the consequences of what he decides to do (or to not do).  What is so hard about it? It is about finding some kind of an acceptable balance, no?  The balance would need to be acceptable to him, and no one else.. no one, except for him, is going to give any shits if he makes money or not... or if he adequately protects himself or adequately hedges his options.. whether he ends up being overly aggressive or overly whimpy..  no body cares. He has to take responsibility for his own actions and outcome regarding whether and how to invest and whether to put it into bitcoin or somewhere else.. Is that difficult? If so, how?

[I_Anime]

I don't know why some people are still waiting for the bitcoin price to drop down more before they buy their bitcoin, when they can use the benefit of the DCA method to accumulate as many bitcoins as they want at different prices. Waiting for the Bitcoin price might be a very wrong decision because the price of Bitcoin might just decide to keep moving up to start the main bull run. If it happens that way, the people who are waiting for the price drop have missed out on investing at a very low price.
If you are willing to invest in Bitcoin for a long-term investment, you can withdraw your Bitcoin at any time and still get your profit after some years

You know most people are just playing smart , waiting for the price to drop before they will start buying , which Is wrong expecially for time like this , because they may endup missing out big time , even though dip occur before the main surging , they may miss the dip or they may not be able to get themselves some good quantities of Bitcoin because it may not take time before the price will bounce back.

So is better to buy now using DCA strategies, and set some reserve funds incase of any dip occurs, so that one can accumulate more quantities smoothly without thinking of the dip or waiting for a massive drop in price before buying.

I don't really like to play into arguments that rich people are more privledged, since anyone could come into a situation in which they have lump sums available and they are willing to dedicate some or all of that lump sum to bitcoin investing.  For example they could 1) win the lottery, 2) inherit money, 3) have had been investing for 10 years and building their investment portfolio little by little (so they are not exactly rich, but they have been engaging in good savings/investing practices), 4) received a bonus at work for some kind of job they carried out (expected or not expected these kinds of things sometimes can happen to even less wealthy people), 5) they recalculated their various funds (emergency, reserves and float) and unexpectedly, they come to the conclusion that they have an extra $2k that they are able to invest 6) they received a gift from friend/relative/acquaintance and/or 7) a variety of other possible reason they could come accross extra money, whether that is some extra from their DCA amount or maybe it is a more modest amount

Exactly anyone can actually use  lump-sum strategy depending on the individual condition though , and sir JJG have already given some wonderful example already , like winning a lottery, recieving a bonus at work for some kind of job they carried out etc. You can only say that the rich has more advantages when it comes to lump-sum purchasing, like most time due to having alot of cashflow, the money most  rich are using may be higher than an average Man.

[Lidger]

It is not extremely mandatory to invest a specific percentage of ones income, some persons might be in a situation where they have little or much to spare due to the size of their family and further upkeeps. The actual process is to take out all expenses and funds for reserve then these left overs can be used to invest, going above the spare funds might cause tragic reflexes to one's investment portfolio. I support the fact of investing a fair amount, as long your income is able to cover all expenses and still remain quite a reasonable amount then their should be no hesitate to invest the ideal percentage.

This is part of an effort so that someone can still invest in Bitcoin even though they are spending much more on a daily basis for their own family. Investment is not something that is mandatory for everyone, but everyone who wants to experience profits and financial freedom in their old age. So it's a good idea to think about an investment from now on, such as taking advantage of the potential that exists in Bitcoin by continuing to buy it at a Dip price according to the capabilities that have been previously provided or with an amount that is ideal for everyone who wants to start it for themselves.

Investment is definitely not mandatory and investment is definitely not extra pressure for us. If we treat investment as an extra pressure then we will never be able to sustain that investment for long and also we will not be able to achieve success from that investment. 

Investing should be treated like all our other normal activities so that we can maintain our investment continuity without undue stress. We need to confirm in advance how much money we are earning and how much money we can naturally invest from the total earned money. Due to some financial problems our investment amount may be less but that should be taken as normal. One month I invested a relatively small amount of money but the next month I invested a relatively large amount of money of my own accord. So we should invest with the amount of money we can invest and maintain consistency of investment.

[Smilevictorobinna]

I don't really like to play into arguments that rich people are more privledged, since anyone could come into a situation in which they have lump sums available and they are willing to dedicate some or all of that lump sum to bitcoin investing.  For example they could 1) win the lottery, 2) inherit money, 3) have had been investing for 10 years and building their investment portfolio little by little (so they are not exactly rich, but they have been engaging in good savings/investing practices), 4) received a bonus at work for some kind of job they carried out (expected or not expected these kinds of things sometimes can happen to even less wealthy people), 5) they recalculated their various funds (emergency, reserves and float) and unexpectedly, they come to the conclusion that they have an extra $2k that they are able to invest 6) they received a gift from friend/relative/acquaintance and/or 7) a variety of other possible reason they could come accross extra money, whether that is some extra from their DCA amount or maybe it is a more modest amount

Exactly anyone can actually use  lump-sum strategy depending on the individual condition though , and sir JJG have already given some wonderful example already , like winning a lottery, recieving a bonus at work for some kind of job they carried out etc. You can only say that the rich has more advantages when it comes to lump-sum purchasing, like most time due to having alot of cashflow, the money most  rich are using may be higher than an average Man.

Example let's say I want to start investing right now in bitcoin and I have a monthly income of 1000$(it's assumption figures) and I decide that I want to invest about 300$ from that amount into a weekly DCA investment which should be about 75$ weekly invested in bitcoin and then I also had some cash from my savings that I also wanted to use to invest in bitcoin maybe to give myself some kind of head start and the money was about 3000$ and I decide to use 1500$ to invest right away, that is what a lump sum buying would mean.
Lump-sum payment is complete opposite of DCA, you aware that DCA is the purchasing set amounts of Bitcoin at regular intervals, whether the price is high or low. While lump-summing is the act of going all in at once, just like the example I gave about the $3000 and all that. Most people that are financially stable may use lump-summing to start their investment to have some good head start in their accumulation without it affecting their regular life style or tampering with their investment. But if an individual who's not financially stable start his accumulation using lump-summing without any proper planning he or she may endup using the funds that are being meant for their emergency (which known emergency funds) in order to execute a nice lump-sum purchase. So such individual won't be able to sustain his self without any emergency funds which may lead to he or she tampering with their investment , and won't be able to execute his long-term plans, selling their investment in an premature state. It is always advisable to invest according to your financial capability, by starting investment with some nice DCA strategies, so that you can set a proper plan for their investment.

[laijsica]

It is not extremely mandatory to invest a specific percentage of ones income, some persons might be in a situation where they have little or much to spare due to the size of their family and further upkeeps. The actual process is to take out all expenses and funds for reserve then these left overs can be used to invest, going above the spare funds might cause tragic reflexes to one's investment portfolio. I support the fact of investing a fair amount, as long your income is able to cover all expenses and still remain quite a reasonable amount then their should be no hesitate to invest the ideal percentage.

This is part of an effort so that someone can still invest in Bitcoin even though they are spending much more on a daily basis for their own family. Investment is not something that is mandatory for everyone, but everyone who wants to experience profits and financial freedom in their old age. So it's a good idea to think about an investment from now on, such as taking advantage of the potential that exists in Bitcoin by continuing to buy it at a Dip price according to the capabilities that have been previously provided or with an amount that is ideal for everyone who wants to start it for themselves.

Investment is definitely not mandatory and investment is definitely not extra pressure for us. If we treat investment as an extra pressure then we will never be able to sustain that investment for long and also we will not be able to achieve success from that investment. 

Investing should be treated like all our other normal activities so that we can maintain our investment continuity without undue stress. We need to confirm in advance how much money we are earning and how much money we can naturally invest from the total earned money. Due to some financial problems our investment amount may be less but that should be taken as normal. One month I invested a relatively small amount of money but the next month I invested a relatively large amount of money of my own accord. So we should invest with the amount of money we can invest and maintain consistency of investment.

Adequate income is mandatory to keep investments stress-free. Because investment is only after meeting the daily needs of your family without adequate income system. People's demand is infinite so when it comes to investment decisions have to be made keeping the infinite demand under control especially in the case of Bitcoin with long term goals.

You have to deposit a fixed amount at the end of the week or at the end of the month which must be kept psychologically or else the salary may be spent in endless demands. It is definitely recommended to keep within normal investment limits. Many may be more aggressive in investing in new situations or hoarding bitcoins but this makes them riskier to continue later and they are forced to withdraw their investment due to natural reasons. This is why overdoing it or not taking into account the environment when it comes to depositing bitcoins leads to more financial losses.

[Justbillywitt]

There is nothing wrong with engaging in techniques to improve DCA, which truly if someone is new to bitcoin, they might start with a certain weekly amount for their DCA, yet in the meantime, after several weeks, they could be figuring out various aspects of their budget and maybe how to employ their DCA better.  On a personal level, for the first year that I was in bitcoin, I tended to give myself a weekly DCA budget (or allowance), so during the week, I would try to maximize the buying on dips within the week, however, if I had not used all of the weekly allowance by a certain time of the week, I would just buy with the rest of it at that deadline time in each week, since my new weekly allowance would become available at the beginning of the next week... but yeah sometimes going through the process, with the passage of time, I was able to figure out some ways of employing my DCA that worked better for my own circumstances... but also recalculating my situation, that surely went even beyond the first year, since the strategies became different with the passage of time (as you suggested might become the case for anyone going through their BTC accumulation journey) and the fact that I had been accumulating BTC through the previous time and the details of that prior stacking in regards to how much, what was the average costs and considering whether my stacking goals were changing and/or close to being met, helped to inform any changes in my practices.

With DCA one can go with Limp Sum and buy the dip. It will some time for a person to figure out when to use the later two techniques (Lump Sum and buy the dip) with DCA. For sure, new one can go with DCA but they will get bored with it initially as Bitcoin spot price may go down and the profit might not be according to there expectations.

If they are looking for short term profit then they will be disappointed and you are I know that for us to see reasonable profit in bitcoin investment we must invest for the long term and not short term. That's why it's necessary for people coming into bitcoin investment to have the right orientation/mentality. They have to know on time if are coming into bitcoin investment as a trader or hodler.

When it comes to knowing when to use the other two strategies like buying the dip or lump sum, well I will say that the person who is making his first buy in bitcoin can use lump sum buy and follow it up subsequently with DCA, especially if he wants to own a certain level bitcoin in his possession. While knowing when to use the buy the dip strategy is simply when you see the level of dip you have already predetermined or set for yourself before any dip occurs in the market. This will make you not to lose focus or confused on when to enter the market if eventually dip happens. You know nobody has the entire knowledge of the market and when certain variables will play out, so it's important to always get prepared before the eventuality of any market situation. When preparation meet performance, good result is always birthed.

[Dailyscript]

We cannot necessarily presume lump sum to even be an option, since sometimes people come to bitcoin an they don't already have cash available and/or they might not even have other investments from which they would be able to employ lump sums, so sometimes it does not even make sense to presume lump sum as an option when it is not automatically an option that normal people end up having and even if they were to have some lump sum potentiality, they would first have to designate such amount towards bitcoin investing, which might be an actual obstacle for some folks in which DCA makes more sense for them since they are not ready, willing or able to redesignate some lump sum amount that they might have towards bitcoin investing.

I really understand what you are saying but it is very important and for everyone to have a broader knowledge of various strategies as it being exhaustibly disscued here in terms of figuring out from what financial stratification you belong to, and for reference purposes. However, the lump sum buying are mostly practice by those in upper class and not for some middle or lower class where identifying your class gives you the preparedness in terms of making an informed decisions towards your investment plan, it pointless for anyone presuming lump sum to be an option when apparently you don't have what takes, everyone has to figure out the class where he or she belongs to in terms of choice of strategies, be it dca , lump sum and the rest of them, which will be a hedge over your planning working towards a successful Bitcoin investment.

Knowing most of the strategies in accumulating Bitcoin is good as it helps an investor to know when is the right to time buy aggressively if there are more funds at a particular moment. But it is good to maintain one strategy when investing. I see it as a way an investor can be able to maintain consistency, discipline and most important keep proper record of their investment procedures. It would be easy for them to know when they are doing things wrongly and help achieve the goal faster. Of course, an investor can adopt other strategies in another investment goal, like having multiple Bitcoin goals and using various or different strategies for them.

[MusaPk]

If they are looking for short term profit then they will be disappointed and you are I know that for us to see reasonable profit in bitcoin investment we must invest for the long term and not short term. That's why it's necessary for people coming into bitcoin investment to have the right orientation/mentality. They have to know on time if are coming into bitcoin investment as a trader or hodler.

When it comes to knowing when to use the other two strategies like buying the dip or lump sum, well I will say that the person who is making his first buy in bitcoin can use lump sum buy and follow it up subsequently with DCA, especially if he wants to own a certain level bitcoin in his possession. While knowing when to use the buy the dip strategy is simply when you see the level of dip you have already predetermined or set for yourself before any dip occurs in the market. This will make you not to lose focus or confused on when to enter the market if eventually dip happens. You know nobody has the entire knowledge of the market and when certain variables will play out, so it's important to always get prepared before the eventuality of any market situation. When preparation meet performance, good result is always birthed.

Those who have spend time in Bitcoin have consent that it's ideal to invest into Bitcoin for long term. But that's not the case with new comers, most of them came with mind that Bitcoin is about getting rich overnight and when that desire is not fulfilled they get disappointed.

Regarding three techniques i.e. Lump Sum, Buy the dip and DCA, anyone with experience can adjust buy the dip and Lump Sum with DCA. If I am a new comer, I would prefer to go with small amount i.e. investing small amount every week or month. Once your confidence is developed you can go for Lump Sum with some increased capital. Both DCA and Lump Sum are good as long as you are confident about the technique you are adopting.

[Bravut]

We cannot necessarily presume lump sum to even be an option, since sometimes people come to bitcoin an they don't already have cash available and/or they might not even have other investments from which they would be able to employ lump sums, so sometimes it does not even make sense to presume lump sum as an option when it is not automatically an option that normal people end up having and even if they were to have some lump sum potentiality, they would first have to designate such amount towards bitcoin investing, which might be an actual obstacle for some folks in which DCA makes more sense for them since they are not ready, willing or able to redesignate some lump sum amount that they might have towards bitcoin investing.

I really understand what you are saying but it is very important and for everyone to have a broader knowledge of various strategies as it being exhaustibly disscued here in terms of figuring out from what financial stratification you belong to, and for reference purposes. However, the lump sum buying are mostly practice by those in upper class and not for some middle or lower class where identifying your class gives you the preparedness in terms of making an informed decisions towards your investment plan, it pointless for anyone presuming lump sum to be an option when apparently you don't have what takes, everyone has to figure out the class where he or she belongs to in terms of choice of strategies, be it dca , lump sum and the rest of them, which will be a hedge over your planning working towards a successful Bitcoin investment.

Lump sum, DCA are strategies that can be used by any investor in terms of Bitcoin Investment. I won't associate social class to any form of investment, whereas we talk about it in terms of ability to be consistent in your accumulation phase.

For instance; An income earner of $3k monthly decides to begin his journey in Bitcoin and starts with $1500 which is 50% of his income, that lump summing probably later on he develops a plan in which he accounts $200 weekly. Any class can lump sum or DCA is just a matter of subjectivity. Just like sometime you can decide to add extra $$ to your weekly amount for accumulating Bitcoin just to increase your holdings.

In essence, everyone should have a plan, DCAing keeps us in a position of continual Investment same time you can lump sum too. Both works, it just a matter of discipline and consistency not exhausting yourself not social class or whatever.

[bitLeap]

Normally, buying bitcoin in the bear market is the best time to accumulate bitcoin because we will accumulate more bitcoin with a lesser amount of money, and the bear market will facilitate us to achieve the quantity of bitcoin we want to hold because bitcoin is always cheap at that time. For instance, just like JayJuanGee accumulated most of his bitcoin holdings in the bear market, when bitcoin was very cheap, it helped him achieve the quantity of bitcoin he wanted to hold quickly. JayJuanGee can decide not to accumulate bitcoin again because he has already accumulated enough bitcoin, which is very much okay for him. But that doesn't mean that accumulating bitcoin when the price is at its peak or bitcoin halving has happened is bad. It only means you will be accumulating bitcoin when it is expensive, and you will need good capital to help you accumulate a good quantity of bitcoin on time because the demand for bitcoin is high, scarce, and expensive to accumulate.

You might be mischaracterizing a bit my  own BTC accumulation journey, since I did not particularly go out to buy and/or accumulate bitcoin in a bear market, and none of us is likely going to know whether we are in a bear market or not or which way the BTC price is going to go for the short to medium term.

So any kind of suggestion that it is best to determine and/or figure out if we are in a bear market prior to engaging in BTC accumulation and/or aggressive BTC accumulation seems to be quite misleading  - and it could cause newbies to wait rather than getting started ASAP..

If you don't have any BTC, then what are you going to do wait for lower prices from here?  Or if the BTC price does not go down from here, then you are going to wait for after it goes up and then when it comes back down, but to where is it going to come back down?

I cannot see how waiting could be a strategy for anyone who might have assessed that he does not have any coins or that he does not have enough coins.

Sure, some folks might come to a wrong assessment that they do not need any BTC, and sure they can do what they like, but they are likely going to end up buying later and at higher prices, so again, why wait?

There are some folks who are worried about price dips coming, and perhaps those kinds of folks will feel better if they hold some funds aside for buying on dips, but even that seems like a questionable strategy for anyone who either does not have any coins or does not have very many coins.

This reminds me of one of the brothers who always said "just wait until the price goes down" that statement never came true until now, do you know how many years he regretted it? well for 4 years he complained and regretted why he didn't make a purchase since Bitcoin was still at the bottom. The view about waiting is often misinterpreted, just because the price is now high and then in the end you still have to wait? to hell with waiting if you don't have a plan for when to get in. I mean I'm not encouraging my brother to be aggressive, but at least there is a plan in place to start putting in money.

As said in this post, investment with determination will produce results. No matter how long Bitcoin has never disappointed us once in every 4 years. It is proven that I released 70% of my ownership at ATH this year and for me it was the right decision. Investing in Bitcoin with consistent methods and principles can educate us in the future to understand every process, the rise and fall of prices, know when to enter to buy, etc.

[avp2306]

Normally, buying bitcoin in the bear market is the best time to accumulate bitcoin because we will accumulate more bitcoin with a lesser amount of money, and the bear market will facilitate us to achieve the quantity of bitcoin we want to hold because bitcoin is always cheap at that time. For instance, just like JayJuanGee accumulated most of his bitcoin holdings in the bear market, when bitcoin was very cheap, it helped him achieve the quantity of bitcoin he wanted to hold quickly. JayJuanGee can decide not to accumulate bitcoin again because he has already accumulated enough bitcoin, which is very much okay for him. But that doesn't mean that accumulating bitcoin when the price is at its peak or bitcoin halving has happened is bad. It only means you will be accumulating bitcoin when it is expensive, and you will need good capital to help you accumulate a good quantity of bitcoin on time because the demand for bitcoin is high, scarce, and expensive to accumulate.

You might be mischaracterizing a bit my  own BTC accumulation journey, since I did not particularly go out to buy and/or accumulate bitcoin in a bear market, and none of us is likely going to know whether we are in a bear market or not or which way the BTC price is going to go for the short to medium term.

So any kind of suggestion that it is best to determine and/or figure out if we are in a bear market prior to engaging in BTC accumulation and/or aggressive BTC accumulation seems to be quite misleading  - and it could cause newbies to wait rather than getting started ASAP..

If you don't have any BTC, then what are you going to do wait for lower prices from here?  Or if the BTC price does not go down from here, then you are going to wait for after it goes up and then when it comes back down, but to where is it going to come back down?

I cannot see how waiting could be a strategy for anyone who might have assessed that he does not have any coins or that he does not have enough coins.

Sure, some folks might come to a wrong assessment that they do not need any BTC, and sure they can do what they like, but they are likely going to end up buying later and at higher prices, so again, why wait?

There are some folks who are worried about price dips coming, and perhaps those kinds of folks will feel better if they hold some funds aside for buying on dips, but even that seems like a questionable strategy for anyone who either does not have any coins or does not have very many coins.

This reminds me of one of the brothers who always said "just wait until the price goes down" that statement never came true until now, do you know how many years he regretted it? well for 4 years he complained and regretted why he didn't make a purchase since Bitcoin was still at the bottom. The view about waiting is often misinterpreted, just because the price is now high and then in the end you still have to wait? to hell with waiting if you don't have a plan for when to get in. I mean I'm not encouraging my brother to be aggressive, but at least there is a plan in place to start putting in money.

As said in this post, investment with determination will produce results. No matter how long Bitcoin has never disappointed us once in every 4 years. It is proven that I released 70% of my ownership at ATH this year and for me it was the right decision. Investing in Bitcoin with consistent methods and principles can educate us in the future to understand every process, the rise and fall of prices, know when to enter to buy, etc.

Common thing suggested that they should wait for dip to buy. But these people failed to realize that they missing some of their chance to accumulate when they are ready since if they entertain that idea to acquire only when there's a dump happening then for sure that huge instances that they will fail since they might get afraid of the dump and might doubt to take some action. That's why its better for investor not to think about the dip but rather focus to accumulate at what figure it is. We are talking about long term here and not short term goals that's why they should ignore those bad suggestion but rather they focus on other good things that can help them earn more money so that they can add up on their investment and maximize their potential volume then earn some good profits for it in future.

That's why its important to consider positive things that can help us generate good result. That's we should erase the other thoughts that can create disturbance and focus only on the goals we set since this could give us more fulfilling result especially if we already see some good profits as the result of the efforts and trust we made for bitcoin. Its good to see that you already secure your profit since that is really the main purpose of that. What's important is to plan the next action and start to accumulate back again.

[JayJuanGee]

I don't really like to play into arguments that rich people are more privledged, since anyone could come into a situation in which they have lump sums available and they are willing to dedicate some or all of that lump sum to bitcoin investing.  For example they could 1) win the lottery, 2) inherit money, 3) have had been investing for 10 years and building their investment portfolio little by little (so they are not exactly rich, but they have been engaging in good savings/investing practices), 4) received a bonus at work for some kind of job they carried out (expected or not expected these kinds of things sometimes can happen to even less wealthy people), 5) they recalculated their various funds (emergency, reserves and float) and unexpectedly, they come to the conclusion that they have an extra $2k that they are able to invest 6) they received a gift from friend/relative/acquaintance and/or 7) a variety of other possible reason they could come accross extra money, whether that is some extra from their DCA amount or maybe it is a more modest amount

Exactly anyone can actually use  lump-sum strategy depending on the individual condition though , and sir JJG have already given some wonderful example already , like winning a lottery, recieving a bonus at work for some kind of job they carried out etc. You can only say that the rich has more advantages when it comes to lump-sum purchasing, like most time due to having alot of cashflow, the money most  rich are using may be higher than an average Man.

Surely the rich have advantages over the poor both in terms of the assets that they are likely to have and also the disposable income that they are likely to have; however, the mere fact of being richer than someone else neither means that investments into assets are going to be managed well or that the right kinds of investments will be chosen (such as into bitcoin), and so surely if we take a rich man and a poor man and we give them similar kinds of strategies, the rich man is going to have advantages, including that the poor man may well be able to catch up.

On the other hand, not all rich folks have good habits, so it could well be the case that poor people are able to catch up and even pass up some richer folks.. but sure, the poor folks still have to figure out ways to have disposable income, so it could well be really difficult for a poor man who is ONLY able to figure out ways to invest $10 per week into bitcoin to catch up to someone who ONLY sporadically invests $100 or $1k into bitcoin - but still the guy investing $10 per week is still doing better than the similarly situated guy who is not investing at all... .. and so yeah, we might choose ways to compare our own bitcoin investment performance to others or to compare our performance to other variations of ourselves, and there are likely going to be ways that the organized, persistent and consistent BTC investor is going to catch up, surpass and out perform other possible alternative scenarios.

If they are looking for short term profit then they will be disappointed and you are I know that for us to see reasonable profit in bitcoin investment we must invest for the long term and not short term. That's why it's necessary for people coming into bitcoin investment to have the right orientation/mentality. They have to know on time if are coming into bitcoin investment as a trader or hodler.

When it comes to knowing when to use the other two strategies like buying the dip or lump sum, well I will say that the person who is making his first buy in bitcoin can use lump sum buy and follow it up subsequently with DCA, especially if he wants to own a certain level bitcoin in his possession. While knowing when to use the buy the dip strategy is simply when you see the level of dip you have already predetermined or set for yourself before any dip occurs in the market. This will make you not to lose focus or confused on when to enter the market if eventually dip happens. You know nobody has the entire knowledge of the market and when certain variables will play out, so it's important to always get prepared before the eventuality of any market situation. When preparation meet performance, good result is always birthed.

Those who have spend time in Bitcoin have consent that it's ideal to invest into Bitcoin for long term. But that's not the case with new comers, most of them came with mind that Bitcoin is about getting rich overnight and when that desire is not fulfilled they get disappointed.

What you are saying is not exactly accurate, especially since people likely come to bitcoin with all kinds of perspectives and goals, and surely if someone has already been into bitcoin for a while, then that person may already be filtered out as more of a long term investor into bitcoin merely based on the fact that he continues to stay in bitcoin.

Regarding three techniques i.e. Lump Sum, Buy the dip and DCA, anyone with experience can adjust buy the dip and Lump Sum with DCA. If I am a new comer, I would prefer to go with small amount i.e. investing small amount every week or month. Once your confidence is developed you can go for Lump Sum with some increased capital. Both DCA and Lump Sum are good as long as you are confident about the technique you are adopting.

I think that you are still getting at the option of whether a lump sum is even available... so if there is a question whether a lump sum is available, then DCA makes more sense, but if a lump sum is available, then for sure there are more options, but it still might make a certain amount of sense to spread out the lump sum rather than investing right away, and if we go back to the example of someone who has an extra $3k... then there are so many ways to consider the matter, and it would seem short-sighted to completely ignore the availability of the $3k and to just DCA and buy on dips with it, since that would be presuming that the BTC price is either going to remain flat or to dip, so the more practical way of preparing for all price directions would be to use some of that $3k to buy right away, yet it is still a question of how much to use to prepare for up rather than preparing for down or sideways.. and each person has to live with their own decision, since there is not really any one correct answer, even though some answers (or approaches) seem more logical and reasonable than others... but people can still vary in their reason and also we might not completely know all of the reasons (the 9 individual factors) of another person without really knowing the person.