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Author Topic: A Resource Based Economy  (Read 261037 times)
LightRider
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I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.


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April 07, 2011, 07:19:33 AM
 #81

We are in the awareness and educational phase of our operation. Meaninful action can only be achieved after critical mass of understanding is achieved. This is meant to be a concerted and global effort. But, we do expect to start regionally with a test city as a proof of concept. I understand how this might seem frustrating for you to understand, but there is a methodology and plan involved in what we are doing.

That is not a plan. That is the slowest OODA loop ever.

Do you have any actual criticisms or do you just plan on ridiculing every explanation I proffer as "it is slow and will never work"?

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kiba
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April 07, 2011, 07:21:43 AM
 #82

Do you have any actual criticisms or do you just plan on ridiculing every explanation I proffer as "it is slow and will never work"?

I am a computer geek. I don't understand grand plans and grand actions that take forever to execute.

LightRider
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April 07, 2011, 07:26:33 AM
 #83

Do you have any actual criticisms or do you just plan on ridiculing every explanation I proffer as "it is slow and will never work"?

I am a computer geek. I don't understand grand plans and grand actions that take forever to execute.

Our plan's initial procedure requires a large number of child processes to spawn and complete before we can execute the next procedure. This is not something that is impossible to execute or difficult to understand.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
deadlizard
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April 07, 2011, 07:32:22 AM
 #84

This is not something that is impossible to execute or difficult to understand.
Then explain it in layman's terms. All I see is Marxism with robots. I would love to be proven me wrong.

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LightRider
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April 07, 2011, 07:33:05 AM
 #85

Jacob Spinney has an excellent YouTube video critiquing the Venus Project:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhNoUW4UTpI

It's 54:13 long, and I have only watched the first 5 minutes, but he has already exposed and destroyed several logical fallacies.

This video does no such thing. It invokes the fantasy of a free market, and asserts a common unit of exchange. Any arbitrary unit of exchange favors one group of individuals over another, and unless you have competing units of exchange, the same behavior will persist that we have today. And if you did have a truly free market with competing units, then what you really have is a return to the barter system, which is primitive, impractical and unnecessary.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
LightRider
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April 07, 2011, 07:34:16 AM
 #86

This is not something that is impossible to execute or difficult to understand.
Then explain it in layman's terms. All I see is Marxism with robots. I would love to be proven me wrong.

Define what you mean by Marxism.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
kiba
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April 07, 2011, 07:47:34 AM
 #87


Our plan's initial procedure requires a large number of child processes to spawn and complete before we can execute the next procedure. This is not something that is impossible to execute or difficult to understand.

I do not see any child processes spawning. All I see is a bunch of...rocks.

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April 07, 2011, 07:56:29 AM
 #88

This is not something that is impossible to execute or difficult to understand.
Then explain it in layman's terms. All I see is Marxism with robots. I would love to be proven me wrong.

Define what you mean by Marxism.
it's the intermediary step between capitalism and communism where the confiscation of private property occurs.
As I understand it all resources will be allocated by a central authority so it seems like the best description to me.

and that was some mighty fine misdirection. Mind explaining now  Tongue

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LightRider
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April 07, 2011, 08:02:59 AM
 #89

This is not something that is impossible to execute or difficult to understand.
Then explain it in layman's terms. All I see is Marxism with robots. I would love to be proven me wrong.

Define what you mean by Marxism.
it's the intermediary step between capitalism and communism where the confiscation of private property occurs.
As I understand it all resources will be allocated by a central authority so it seems like the best description to me.

and that was some mighty fine misdirection. Mind explaining now  Tongue

We advocate decentralized planning and resource allocation, not central authority. We do not advocate taking away property of any sort. The idea of private property is a reaction to scarcity, and there will be little need to claim individual items as your own, barring access to all others, when you have access to all the necessities of life. Many people project their fears into what they don't understand, so I can see why it may seem frightening.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
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April 07, 2011, 08:21:03 AM
 #90

Many people project their fears into what they don't understand, so I can see why it may seem frightening.
That's why I'm asking for a simple explanation. if, as you say, it's simple to understand then spell it out for us simpletons.

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LightRider
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April 07, 2011, 08:26:44 AM
 #91


Our plan's initial procedure requires a large number of child processes to spawn and complete before we can execute the next procedure. This is not something that is impossible to execute or difficult to understand.

I do not see any child processes spawning. All I see is a bunch of...rocks.

I think you are choosing to be absurd at this point.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
LightRider
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April 07, 2011, 08:47:08 AM
 #92

Many people project their fears into what they don't understand, so I can see why it may seem frightening.
That's why I'm asking for a simple explanation. if, as you say, it's simple to understand then spell it out for us simpletons.

It would help if you don't presume things that you don't know. If you have a preconceived and unalterable notion about the ideas I advocate, then explaining things to you simply will not be productive. I shall persevere, however.

As stated previously, we have the ability to feed, house, provide medical care and a relevant education to all people given what we know, understand and can implement today. We can choose to significantly reduce the problems of crime, poverty, hunger disease and needless suffering if we had a true desire to resolve these technical problems. The dominant culture we have, however, does not promote these goals, and instead manipulate the great majority of us into believing that we should instead strive for individual accomplishment, acquisition and wealth. This is done to promote and preserve the current established institutions and the false authority they have over the majority. The current system we have in place is wasteful, abusive and destructive, both to people and the environment that sustains us. We are rapidly accelerating into an inevitable clash between a financial system that unsustainably and inefficiently borrows against the resources of the earth and its people's lives, and the natural and fundamental laws of nature. We can no longer continue at our current and predicted consumption trends any longer, and to do so would be suicidal at every level of life.

What we propose is submission to the true authority of the laws of nature, and the recognition that we live in a symbiotic and emergent system that requires constant monitoring and adjustment to maintain dynamic equilibrium. We should declare the earth and all its resources as the common heritage of all people, as we recognize that we are transient caretakers of a finite planet. We recognize that all people can work together for the benefit of mankind in a collaborative and cooperative effort to allow each person to reach their highest potential. We can achieve these goals by determining all current resources available to us, analyze all relevant and available data, and act on this information along with previously established scientific principles to produce the infrastructure, goods and services needed to meet all human necessity. In the absence of relevant scarcity, the idea of a scarcity-based market with its attendant principles of currency and private property will become obsolete. We will value human life and the environment that sustains it, not because it is a "good" or "right" thing to do, but it is the only rational course of action if we desire to live and prosper as individuals and as a species.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
deadlizard
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April 07, 2011, 09:15:44 AM
 #93

Oh god, wall of text  Shocked
It would help if you don't presume things that you don't know. If you have a preconceived and unalterable notion about the ideas I advocate, then explaining things to you simply will not be productive. I shall persevere, however.
everyone has preconceptions but only fools have unalterable preconceptions.
And even if I remain unconvinced it is a public forum where others who read it might still be convinced

I'm always open to new ideas but I don't see how this idea could be implemented in our lifetime.
And while a post scarcity world is a fine and noble goal there are more pressing issues in the present that need our attention. As the hard-line anarcho-capitalists always say you would be free to pursue this idea under anarcho-capitalism and if it truly is the best possible system it will displace all others.
I think removing the state should be the main goal and not some distant utopian ideal.
Not to say that disscussing and developing the idea is a bad thing at all.
baby steps Wink

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epii
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April 07, 2011, 09:18:07 AM
 #94

We should declare the earth and all its resources as the common heritage of all people, as we recognize that we are transient caretakers of a finite planet. We recognize that all people can work together for the benefit of mankind in a collaborative and cooperative effort to allow each person to reach their highest potential.

You use the word "we" a lot.  Who does "we" include, and not include?  Clearly it doesn't include the people who are criticizing your ideas, because all "we" seems to do is agree with them.  So what happens to the people who don't fall under the category of "we"?

Vires In Numeris.
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April 07, 2011, 03:32:08 PM
 #95

Perhaps the Zeitgeist Movement should talk to these guys: http://freestateinitiative.org/
Onarchy doesn't even believe in unlimited-scarcity when it comes to 'intellectual property'. I doubt he would take the philosophy as far as actual property.
kiba
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April 07, 2011, 03:56:54 PM
 #96


I just want to watch the fireworks.

Yes, I taken the light hearted approach of amusing myself with their silly strange dream.

I don't have anything wrong with pipe dreams, just incoherent and unrealistic ones. Good pipe dreams are the kind of things that can be started with just one person, like Satoshi Nakamoto's invention of bitcoin.

LightRider
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April 07, 2011, 05:06:15 PM
 #97


I just want to watch the fireworks.

Yes, I taken the light hearted approach of amusing myself with their silly strange dream.

I don't have anything wrong with pipe dreams, just incoherent and unrealistic ones. Good pipe dreams are the kind of things that can be started with just one person, like Satoshi Nakamoto's invention of bitcoin.

Individuals do not invent things, they must build on the work of others and of natural phenomenon.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
kiba
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April 07, 2011, 05:27:05 PM
 #98


Individuals do not invent things, they must build on the work of others and of natural phenomenon.

I said great pipe dreams started work best when you can start with one person. Satoshi Nakamoto certainly builds on the work of others, but he doesn't need a team to start work on the project.

Remember the key word, start.

LightRider
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April 07, 2011, 05:30:07 PM
 #99


Individuals do not invent things, they must build on the work of others and of natural phenomenon.

I said great pipe dreams started work best when you can start with one person. Satoshi Nakamoto certainly builds on the work of others, but he doesn't need a team to start work on the project.

Remember the key word, start.

The movement has started, and we are working towards our goals. To assert otherwise would be incorrect.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
kiba
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April 07, 2011, 05:34:57 PM
 #100

The movement has started, and we are working towards our goals. To assert otherwise would be incorrect.

Your pipe dream plan seems to require getting lot of people to understand first before you "do something".

The bitcoin project doesn't exactly works that way. We educate/advertise the project, but we also do something. We invent and hack as we go.

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