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Author Topic: A Resource Based Economy  (Read 261755 times)
mouser98
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May 28, 2011, 03:36:05 PM
 #181


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We are currently raised to be competitive and dominant

You see, this is how I know the RBE philosophy is complete bunk.  For my part, I am selfish and competitive not due to indoctrination (because I was indoctrinated in quite a bit of crypto-communist "sharing" crap starting at a young age) but due to the fact that I have spent the majority of my life surrounded by morons who have absolutely no clue how anything works and engage in magical thinking as a substitute for logic and reason.  Capitalism just sort of naturally emerges as the obvious solution to the problem of self-replicating mouth-breathing retards who destroy everything they come in contact with.  So, ironically, you can say that RBE is part of the reason that people are competitive and dominant -- because placing any significant amount of resources in the control of people who say things like "What we are talking about is the abundance of access to all of life's necessities" is just such a horrifying alternative.

this paragraph is a cornucopia of WIN!
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ISA
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May 28, 2011, 03:52:03 PM
 #182

AWESOME.

The Venus project opens your mind:
http://www.thevenusproject.com/

A must see for all free thinkers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011

mouser98
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May 28, 2011, 04:32:24 PM
 #183

AWESOME.

The Venus project opens your mind:
http://www.thevenusproject.com/

A must see for all free thinkers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011

please ISA, VP has been thoroughly debunked here....  when are you guys going to figure out that top-down solutions really only work for the top?  its time for you to get on board with the bottom-up solution
cbeast
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May 28, 2011, 04:55:47 PM
 #184

AWESOME.

The Venus project opens your mind:
http://www.thevenusproject.com/

A must see for all free thinkers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011

please ISA, VP has been thoroughly debunked here....  when are you guys going to figure out that top-down solutions really only work for the top?  its time for you to get on board with the bottom-up solution

VP isn't about a top or bottom solution. It's just Maslow's Hierarchy with AI and robots. It's not here yet, but when AI arrives, what will your gold, virtual or real be worth?

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
anderxander
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May 28, 2011, 07:02:37 PM
 #185

The Venus project is such a joke. Fresco hasn't gone anywhere in 30 years. One test facility  new models and books but 0 progress towards attaining anything they claim. It has been about pushing a vision  with hoping to one day see it a reality. But thats where it will remain, a group in a state of hope trying to get people to see. That does not create resource abundance and there is already another system with the same goal that has been in practice for decades. Permaculture. Food forests.
Open-e-farm is a great example of where the technology of abundance is headed. Anyone still supporting venus project should probably jump ship before they waste too much more time and get obboard with a practical functioning set of ideas that solves the problem of producing resource abundance. for bitcoins to truely work their decentralized nature must be matched with decentralized power distribution and the coins themselves becoming the base unit which with things are monetized. So long as we rely on a conversion through dollars to use bitcoins they will fail.

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benjamindees
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May 28, 2011, 08:50:07 PM
 #186

there is already another system with the same goal that has been in practice for decades. Permaculture. Food forests.
Open-e-farm is a great example of where the technology of abundance is headed.

Just wanted to quote this for anyone who has the urge to waste their life drawing pictures of floating cities.

Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics
draaglom
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May 28, 2011, 09:01:23 PM
 #187

This pictures for sad children comic describes my feelings towards the venus project accurately, even if it is more aimed at "the singularity".

Essentially, the Venus Project appears to be religion for Atheists. The core tenet of the Venus Project is that at some point jesus will return a bitchin' AI will turn up and then everything will be awesome.

On top of this, the Zeitgeist films are riddled with so much bullshit it isn't even funny.
cbeast
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May 29, 2011, 12:42:05 AM
 #188

This pictures for sad children comic describes my feelings towards the venus project accurately, even if it is more aimed at "the singularity".

Essentially, the Venus Project appears to be religion for Atheists. The core tenet of the Venus Project is that at some point jesus will return a bitchin' AI will turn up and then everything will be awesome.

On top of this, the Zeitgeist films are riddled with so much bullshit it isn't even funny.

Well, yeah. AI will be a reality. We will be able to create an intelligence that makes humans compare to microbes. After all, we evolved from microbes. I'm not an apologist for the Zeitgeist films, they are simply an introduction. It takes thousands of hours of education to understand the premise of how an RBE would work. It takes pure faith to believe that any currency, whether finite or fiat, to believe that they have causal relationship with scientific progress.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
TiagoTiago
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May 29, 2011, 02:00:20 AM
 #189

Is there scientific proof we can develop and AI system that either itself will be significantly smarter than humans, and at very least human like in it's mental capabilities, or a system that that will be capable of designing AIs better and faster than humans to the point it will give us such "god AI" ?


I mean, sure we're getting closer and closer, but is it more like the sound barrier, getting harder and harder until a tipping point where it will suddenly become super easy, or is it more like light speed, requiring exponentially more effort the further you go, at such a rate that makes overcoming or even just matching the speed pretty much impossible? Is it even possible to know at all which one it is if we haven't (yet) overcome the barrier?

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anderxander
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May 29, 2011, 02:27:29 AM
 #190

Or again that Permaculture and food forests have already solved the problem that this supposed AI is supposedly going to solve. Earthships, earth bag homes, solar oriented homes, distributed generation through solar powered steam engines, open source farm equipment....There are people out there already actually doing things that solve resource scarcity. Go practice them. Stop living in dream land.

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cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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May 29, 2011, 02:39:33 AM
 #191

Is there scientific proof we can develop and AI system that either itself will be significantly smarter than humans, and at very least human like in it's mental capabilities, or a system that that will be capable of designing AIs better and faster than humans to the point it will give us such "god AI" ?


I mean, sure we're getting closer and closer, but is it more like the sound barrier, getting harder and harder until a tipping point where it will suddenly become super easy, or is it more like light speed, requiring exponentially more effort the further you go, at such a rate that makes overcoming or even just matching the speed pretty much impossible? Is it even possible to know at all which one it is if we haven't (yet) overcome the barrier?

Science only seeks to explore things in nature that we observe. Intelligence is not beyond our understanding. It doesn't require proof, only good evidence. Humans are nothing more than complex machines. Scientists have already created artificial life. AI is inevitable, if not imminent, and superior intelligence is quite plausible.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
anderxander
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May 29, 2011, 02:42:49 AM
 #192

Is there scientific proof we can develop and AI system that either itself will be significantly smarter than humans, and at very least human like in it's mental capabilities, or a system that that will be capable of designing AIs better and faster than humans to the point it will give us such "god AI" ?


I mean, sure we're getting closer and closer, but is it more like the sound barrier, getting harder and harder until a tipping point where it will suddenly become super easy, or is it more like light speed, requiring exponentially more effort the further you go, at such a rate that makes overcoming or even just matching the speed pretty much impossible? Is it even possible to know at all which one it is if we haven't (yet) overcome the barrier?

Science only seeks to explore things in nature that we observe. Intelligence is not beyond our understanding. It doesn't require proof, only good evidence. Humans are nothing more than complex machines. Scientists have already created artificial life. AI is inevitable, if not imminent, and superior intelligence is quite plausible.

Did you even read his argument?? No wonder you buy into that RBE elephant shit.

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cbeast
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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May 29, 2011, 05:25:14 AM
 #193

Is there scientific proof we can develop and AI system that either itself will be significantly smarter than humans, and at very least human like in it's mental capabilities, or a system that that will be capable of designing AIs better and faster than humans to the point it will give us such "god AI" ?


I mean, sure we're getting closer and closer, but is it more like the sound barrier, getting harder and harder until a tipping point where it will suddenly become super easy, or is it more like light speed, requiring exponentially more effort the further you go, at such a rate that makes overcoming or even just matching the speed pretty much impossible? Is it even possible to know at all which one it is if we haven't (yet) overcome the barrier?

Science only seeks to explore things in nature that we observe. Intelligence is not beyond our understanding. It doesn't require proof, only good evidence. Humans are nothing more than complex machines. Scientists have already created artificial life. AI is inevitable, if not imminent, and superior intelligence is quite plausible.

Did you even read his argument?? No wonder you buy into that RBE elephant shit.

A false analogy is not an argument that merits response. Computers calculate far faster than humans already. It's just a matter of making the machines more complex. If you can't make logical arguments, no wonder you don't understand RBE.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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May 29, 2011, 01:17:44 PM
 #194

Since no one answered my question, I guess we can say cornucopian communism instead of "resource based economy". It's more accurate. A libertarian society, despotism an statist capitalism are based on resources too.

AI for president! Communism needs a benevolent dictator and a futurist AI can do it.
I guess we can bury all political and economic books and just wait for the computer to say answer 42.
Don't think, AI will do it for you in the future.
What's wrong with our society? Doesn't matter. AI will find out.

2 different forms of free-money: Freicoin (free of basic interest because it's perishable), Mutual credit (no interest because it's abundant)
cbeast
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May 29, 2011, 02:41:50 PM
 #195

Since no one answered my question, I guess we can say cornucopian communism instead of "resource based economy". It's more accurate. A libertarian society, despotism an statist capitalism are based on resources too.

AI for president! Communism needs a benevolent dictator and a futurist AI can do it.
I guess we can bury all political and economic books and just wait for the computer to say answer 42.
Don't think, AI will do it for you in the future.
What's wrong with our society? Doesn't matter. AI will find out.


Use whatever labels you want. What are you afraid of? Computers run your car, your power grid, your traffic lights, and nearly everything else. We are dependent on computers. Monitoring and distributing resources with maximum efficiency requires computers. I don't know why you think an AI would be a dictator, it would just be a machine. If Karl Marx had know about computers he may have written an entirely different book. Cornucopian communism? I'm not sure what that means, but in the context of a superior AI, it seems it would work pretty well.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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May 29, 2011, 03:29:43 PM
 #196

Since no one answered my question, I guess we can say cornucopian communism instead of "resource based economy". It's more accurate. A libertarian society, despotism an statist capitalism are based on resources too.

AI for president! Communism needs a benevolent dictator and a futurist AI can do it.
I guess we can bury all political and economic books and just wait for the computer to say answer 42.
Don't think, AI will do it for you in the future.
What's wrong with our society? Doesn't matter. AI will find out.


Use whatever labels you want. What are you afraid of? Computers run your car, your power grid, your traffic lights, and nearly everything else. We are dependent on computers. Monitoring and distributing resources with maximum efficiency requires computers. I don't know why you think an AI would be a dictator, it would just be a machine. If Karl Marx had know about computers he may have written an entirely different book. Cornucopian communism? I'm not sure what that means, but in the context of a superior AI, it seems it would work pretty well.

I didn't say I'm afraid. I think computers will manage more things than they do now. In fact, I'm working on it. My open source AI project is called preann (parallel reinforcement evolutionary artificial neural network).
But I don't think an algorithm should decide my goals.
An AI would be a dictator if it dictates what we must do.
If I've chosen the wrong labels, maybe you can explain me why. Please, help me know the differences between communism and "resource based economy". As far as I can tell, the only difference is that the dictator would be a an awesome computer instead of Stalin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornucopian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism



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anderxander
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May 29, 2011, 03:42:00 PM
 #197



Open source ecology > RBE

 openfarmtech.org/wiki/Factor_e_Farm

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anderxander
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May 29, 2011, 03:45:39 PM
 #198

Look a robot thats going to build straw houses.

openfarmtech.org/forum/discussion/200/a-robot-to-build-a-straw-house

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jtimon
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May 29, 2011, 03:54:24 PM
 #199

Look a robot thats going to build straw houses.

openfarmtech.org/forum/discussion/200/a-robot-to-build-a-straw-house

Cool. But it is a technology. Technologies can be used in a communist, a state capitalist or in a libertarian society.
A lot of things need to be improved in our society, but I don't think resources must be managed centrally for that.

2 different forms of free-money: Freicoin (free of basic interest because it's perishable), Mutual credit (no interest because it's abundant)
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May 29, 2011, 05:07:52 PM
 #200

Hi, I'm interested in Bitcoin.

The force of opposition to someone who approached you to talk about this in a friendly manner is a time-old yawnfest and seems to be equal to a lack of using the can-do creative power you possess to make a resource-based society possible. It doesn't convince me you really CARE, because at some point when discussing humanity and its future you'll have to deal with the awkward issue of, uh... love, and the importance of taking care of each other. One billion people are starving so I want to hear some really, really, really good solutions. Awareness for the cause is being created, because before you can act on an idea you need to imagine it. We're trying to get the world to imagine the idea first so that in the end people will be friendly enough towards it to allow the idea to be tested without being attacked, literally.
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