Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[be.open]

And now it's just an inglorious defeat of Kyiv, and a shameful defeat of the Nazi ideals of Azov, which, in fact, turned out to be not worthy of dying for them. There will be no exchange, military investigators are already working and Nazi criminals will be convicted. The surrender continues, last night another 200 Nazis of Azov came out of the bunker in addition to 265 from the first batch.

Meanwhile, Russia has decided to test the new Terminator tank support fighting vehicle in combat conditions.

Do you think they'll get a fair trial?

Of course they will, but I'm not sure that it will be too humane. In Russia, at the request of the Prosecutor General's Office, they now want to add the Azov regiment to the list of terrorist organizations, and its fighters have prospects from 15 years to life imprisonment. And if they are judged in the Donbass, then there is no moratorium on the death penalty. The Marines of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, who did not appear in war crimes, the situation is better.

28,300 Russians dead so far, not counting the ones vaporized or blown up to pieces.

The figure according to the statements of Ukrainian propaganda?

And the fact that three waves of mobilization in Ukraine have already turned into mincemeat forgot to tell you?

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[paxmao]

Lol... still pretending that we use "his sources" as credible is kind of fun. But yes, they surrendered, it had to happen.

You are trying in vain to put on a good face on a bad game. No, they shouldn't have given up, it's a shame. The "cyborgs" from Azov were to die and become heroes - that would have been a military defeat, but a political victory for Kyiv. And now it's just an inglorious defeat of Kyiv, and a shameful defeat of the Nazi ideals of Azov, which, in fact, turned out to be not worthy of dying for them. There will be no exchange, military investigators are already working and Nazi criminals will be convicted. The surrender continues, last night another 200 Nazis of Azov came out of the bunker in addition to 265 from the first batch.

Meanwhile, Russia has decided to test the new Terminator tank support fighting vehicle in combat conditions.

A good face? You mean like  this

Oh, by all means, go test - the problem of Putin's army has never been having weapons, it is a problem of corruption and poor leadership so any vehicle sent is just another death trap for the young Russ that should be at home fuck*ng their wives and making more little Russ and, instead will die for Putin. Particularly a 30MM with anti-tank is something that most armies have since years ago. Fronts stalled, even some advances by Ukraine in the North and all you have to show is that the last bit of Mariupol conceded after months of siege - and there is no guarantee that it will be kept in the future.

You still think Putin's Russia has something to win from this war. Somehow, Putin will take the coast and perhaps a bit of Donbas and then everyone will call it a day, go home (those who did not die on both sides I mean) and that is it. What could go wrong? Something like Ukraine continuing to fight with plenty of western help is not possible. Or is it?

US strategy is letting Russia bleed itself and it is working. All they are wishing for is another year of war and then another and then more members for NATO... and Putin is just giving it to them. The recession will be worldwide, but you guys are heading for honours.

The World Bank has projected that Russian GDP will shrink by 11% this year, while the IMF on Tuesday projected a contraction of 8.5% in 2022 and a further 2.3% in 2023. Russian President Vladimir Putin said Monday that the government may need to increase budget spending to boost liquidity and shore up the economy.

In case you do not get the last bit - That means big inflation.

[suchmoon]

Meanwhile, Russia has decided to test the new Terminator tank support fighting vehicle in combat conditions.

Will they be testing the Armata, or is still not capable of anything other than to appear in parades?

I bet there is a Javelin somewhere itching to participate in that test.

[be.open]

Meanwhile, Russia has decided to test the new Terminator tank support fighting vehicle in combat conditions.

Will they be testing the Armata, or is still not capable of anything other than to appear in parades?

I bet there is a Javelin somewhere itching to participate in that test.

Armata has not yet appeared in Ukraine, apparently, in the opinion of the General Staff, this is not advisable. The most modern Russian attack tank that participates in this operation is the T90M Proryv. The main tank of Russia - T72BZ, it is also quite good. The Terminator is built on the T72 chassis, it is good in urban battles and in general for supporting tanks (which is especially important given the small number of soldiers participating in the operation from Russia).

Javelins, by the way, say hyped shit, moreover, according to the reviews of Ukrainian soldiers. In Mariupol, the Javelins did not seem to be able to burn a single Russian tank. There are a lot of conditions for successful operation, which are difficult to put together in a real battle.

[paxmao]

Meanwhile, Russia has decided to test the new Terminator tank support fighting vehicle in combat conditions.

Will they be testing the Armata, or is still not capable of anything other than to appear in parades?

I bet there is a Javelin somewhere itching to participate in that test.

....
Armata has not yet appeared in Ukraine, apparently, in the opinion of the General Staff, this is not advisable.
...
 The most modern Russian attack tank that participates in this operation is the T90M Proryv. The main tank of Russia - T72BZ, it is also quite good. The Terminator is built on the T72 chassis, it is good in urban battles and in general for supporting tanks (which is especially important given the small number of soldiers participating in the operation from Russia).

Javelins, by the way, say hyped shit, moreover, according to the reviews of Ukrainian soldiers. In Mariupol, the Javelins did not seem to be able to burn a single Russian tank. There are a lot of conditions for successful operation, which are difficult to put together in a real battle.

Not advisable = We only have 10 and 1 has a glitch with the aim (shoots inwards). Jokes apart, they are too expensive, it is much cheaper for the Russian Ministry of Sociopathy to send a few dudes from the eastern regions in a T-72. Their strategy on the ground is not about subtlety or technological superiority.

Most tanks are killed by artillery or other armoured vehicles. Javelin missiles have definitely killed armoured vehicles in Ukraine. However, the best thing is that the tanks and other know that they cannot just walk on their own without support or feel confident in attacking an infantry position, not to mention urban warfare. It provides the guy on foot with something that can deal with a tank effectively.

 I particularly find Stugna-P an even better weapon. There is footage of it killing tanks and choppers, soldiers do not have to be there so backfire is not really an issue. Quite a threat, great for ambush.

[suchmoon]

Armata has not yet appeared in Ukraine, apparently, in the opinion of the General Staff, this is not advisable.

Translation from Russian: it's vaporware. Instead of Armata, generals have new dachas. You can't really send a dacha to Ukraine.

Javelins, by the way, say hyped shit, moreover, according to the reviews of Ukrainian soldiers. In Mariupol, the Javelins did not seem to be able to burn a single Russian tank. There are a lot of conditions for successful operation, which are difficult to put together in a real battle.

Javelins need distance. In urban battles NLAW works better. Still needs at least 20 meters. Good thing is that Ukrainians have a wide range of anti-tank weapons.

Funny how bring up Mariupol again, a city that for two months Russians were not able to take with a 10-fold advantage in numbers.

[paxmao]

Armata has not yet appeared in Ukraine, apparently, in the opinion of the General Staff, this is not advisable.

Translation from Russian: it's vaporware. Instead of Armata, generals have new dachas. You can't really send a dacha to Ukraine.
...

At least one exists or three counting on this video. So that must be 6 dachas and 3 tanks.

Your general point is right, there is no proof of any of the in theory sophisticated Russian ground vehicles to actually do anything of what is claimed.

[be.open]

Javelins, by the way, say hyped shit, moreover, according to the reviews of Ukrainian soldiers. In Mariupol, the Javelins did not seem to be able to burn a single Russian tank. There are a lot of conditions for successful operation, which are difficult to put together in a real battle.

Javelins need distance. In urban battles NLAW works better. Still needs at least 20 meters. Good thing is that Ukrainians have a wide range of anti-tank weapons.

Javelin is heavy, expensive and not very effective, there are problems with target acquisition. NLAW is very unreliable and frankly weak against a tank with modern dynamic armor. In general, the initial bet on hand-held anti-tank systems did not work, the main tank losses were from artillery.

Funny how bring up Mariupol again, a city that for two months Russians were not able to take with a 10-fold advantage in numbers.

During the assault on Mariupol, Russia did not even have a two-fold numerical superiority. This is perhaps Russia's biggest problem in this operation, with overwhelming technical superiority, there is simply not enough infantry. However, the current pale appearance of Ukraine and NATO standards is all the more dramatic.

Armata has not yet appeared in Ukraine, apparently, in the opinion of the General Staff, this is not advisable.

Translation from Russian: it's vaporware. Instead of Armata, generals have new dachas. You can't really send a dacha to Ukraine.

Armata is not needed there. Maybe they will bring one or two for tests at the next stage of the operation. At the current stage, risking a fifth generation tank is simply stupid, simpler and well-tested solutions work.

[suchmoon]

Javelin is heavy, expensive and not very effective, there are problems with target acquisition. NLAW is very unreliable and frankly weak against a tank with modern dynamic armor. In general, the initial bet on hand-held anti-tank systems did not work, the main tank losses were from artillery.

LOL sure, nothing to worry about, and surely Russians didn't try to put makeshift "anti-Javelin" contraptions on their tanks, and the turrets just randomly fly off for no reason at all, because Javelins, NLAWs, and other anti-tank weapons didn't work:



"dynamic armor" turned out to be vaporware too BTW:

[be.open]

Javelin is heavy, expensive and not very effective, there are problems with target acquisition. NLAW is very unreliable and frankly weak against a tank with modern dynamic armor. In general, the initial bet on hand-held anti-tank systems did not work, the main tank losses were from artillery.

LOL sure, nothing to worry about, and surely Russians didn't try to put makeshift "anti-Javelin" contraptions on their tanks, and the turrets just randomly fly off for no reason at all, because Javelins, NLAWs, and other anti-tank weapons didn't work:

I'm not saying that there are no losses at all, I'm saying that if they immediately relied not on hand-held anti-tank weapons, but on self-propelled artillery, Russia would have more problems. The vaunted American M777 howitzers also turned out to be zilch, they were delivered without a digital fire control unit.

The collective-farm welded structure in the first photo is a Ukrainian craft, if you draw the letter V on a wrecked Ukrainian tank, it does not become Russian. Do not tell me propaganda tales about how bad everything is in Russia - show real Ukrainian successes. 

[paxmao]

Javelins, by the way, say hyped shit, moreover, according to the reviews of Ukrainian soldiers. In Mariupol, the Javelins did not seem to be able to burn a single Russian tank. There are a lot of conditions for successful operation, which are difficult to put together in a real battle.

Javelins need distance. In urban battles NLAW works better. Still needs at least 20 meters. Good thing is that Ukrainians have a wide range of anti-tank weapons.

Javelin is heavy, expensive and not very effective, there are problems with target acquisition. NLAW is very unreliable and frankly weak against a tank with modern dynamic armor. In general, the initial bet on hand-held anti-tank systems did not work, the main tank losses were from artillery.

Funny how bring up Mariupol again, a city that for two months Russians were not able to take with a 10-fold advantage in numbers.

During the assault on Mariupol, Russia did not even have a two-fold numerical superiority. This is perhaps Russia's biggest problem in this operation, with overwhelming technical superiority, there is simply not enough infantry. However, the current pale appearance of Ukraine and NATO standards is all the more dramatic.

Armata has not yet appeared in Ukraine, apparently, in the opinion of the General Staff, this is not advisable.

Translation from Russian: it's vaporware. Instead of Armata, generals have new dachas. You can't really send a dacha to Ukraine.

Armata is not needed there. Maybe they will bring one or two for tests at the next stage of the operation. At the current stage, risking a fifth generation tank is simply stupid, simpler and well-tested solutions work.

If you continue to test those simpler "proven" solutions with people inside, there may be no more people willing to play dummy.

Javelin's are expensive, agreed. They are 126k USD, but they kill tanks worth 1M USD plus 4 to 5 young Russian soldiers - still good cost-effective. I kind of agree that other AT are better and cheaper.

Nope, NLAW is perfectly effective against Explosive Reactive Armour. See here how the top-attack works. An here how the Russ are using what they call "emotional support armour" or "cope cages" absolutely useless BTW against Javs or NLAWs.

Again, all this is good for short distance. UKR is now getting proper siege artillery, the modern ones that are accurate, fast firing and come with a range of ammo for various situations. We have already seen footage and my guess is we are going to see much more.

[be.open]

Again, all this is good for short distance. UKR is now getting proper siege artillery, the modern ones that are accurate, fast firing and come with a range of ammo for various situations. We have already seen footage and my guess is we are going to see much more.

You are great for not losing heart. Meanwhile, 700 people left Azovstal during the day, and the total number of those who surrendered exceeded 900 people. I think the next tactical boiler will be near Avdeevka or near Lisichansk-Severodonetsk. Here and there, under the threat of encirclement of the APU grouping of about 15,000 soldiers, with Zelensky's order to stand to the death.

[Tash]

Azov terrorist organization trials to be held in Russia.
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/05/an-interesting-detail.html

[suchmoon]

I'm not saying that there are no losses at all, I'm saying that if they immediately relied not on hand-held anti-tank weapons, but on self-propelled artillery, Russia would have more problems. The vaunted American M777 howitzers also turned out to be zilch, they were delivered without a digital fire control unit.

Each type of weapon has its use. Russians tended to send single armored vehicles out, with no air or infantry support, especially at the beginning of the war. Handheld launchers worked great against those. But when Russians try to cross a river with 70+ vehicles, Javelins would be a waste. Drone-spotted artillery fire seems to be Ukrainian favorite in these situations.

But no, don't send the Armata, it'd be a shame to scratch it, would need to be repainted for the next parade.

[be.open]

But no, don't send the Armata, it'd be a shame to scratch it, would need to be repainted for the next parade.

Yep. Maybe we can send something better, for example, combat lasers to fight drones. Russia has a lot of tricks up its sleeve, some of which you don't even know about.

The West is scared shitless not that it can no longer tell Russia what and how it should do, but that Russia will begin to dictate its will to the West. And there is some reason for this fear, because no one knows exactly what is on the mind of an awakened Russian bear with a large club in its paw.

[suchmoon]

combat lasers to fight drones

You watch too much Star Wars.

Russia will begin to dictate its will to the West

Yeah about that... the time has passed. While Putin had the West by its gaseous balls, and hadn't started any recent wars, he could have extorted a lot of things for himself and maybe even for Russia if he was so inclined. He pissed away all of his influence. The only "West" he can "dictate" is Lukashenko.

[DaRude]

Interestingly this little piece just came to my attention

The Covert Operation to Back Ukrainian Independence that Haunts the CIA
...
The main body of Ukrainian insurgents, and in particular the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, had already been linked directly to Nazi atrocities in the region. “They were Nazis, pure and simple,” one CIA operations chief said. “Worse than that, because a lot of them did the Nazis’ dirty work for them.”
Beyond those concerns about enabling fascists, there was also increased understanding of how the Soviet secret police and counter-intelligence operations actually worked
...

https://news.yahoo.com/covert-operation-back-ukrainian-independence-083000650.html

Looks like this is not the first time around, CIA operation Red Sox, US sponsors Ukrainians who weren't just Nazis but did Nazis' "dirty work". And who's the head of said directly linked Nazi group OUN (Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists)? You guessed it, the "hero" Stepan Bandera. Naturally there's Stepana Bandery Avenue 50.488572, 30.512898 in the center of capital, Kyiv, recently named in 2016. If that doesn't say Ukraine is ready for EU i don't know what will. I guess the enemy of my enemy logic... didn't turn out that well with Osama bin Laden either.
This is fine, right!?!?


In other news,

Janet Yellen confirmed it’s unlikely the US will allow Russia to continue making bond payments on its foreign-currency debt

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-18/yellen-confirms-russia-debt-payment-license-extension-unlikely

Ahh the, you default because i won't accept your payment, logic. I'm not sure if USD can be militarized anymore than this, so they decided to totally kill USD as a global reserve currency, how much of the US debt do they expect China to buy up after such antics? US cannot run on balanced budget especially now, so Yellen will need to force EU (Germany/France) to start propping up USD at the cost of EUR. USD/EUR parity incoming. Scholz and Macron are set up to be played hard, guess that's why they're running around the way they do

[suchmoon]

Looks like this is not the first time around, CIA operation Red Sox, US sponsors Ukrainians who weren't just Nazis but did Nazis' "dirty work". And who's the head of said directly linked Nazi group OUN (Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists)? You guessed it, the "hero" Stepan Bandera.

Bandera was a Ukrainian nationalist, who fought against Soviets and against Nazis. Ended up imprisoned in the same concentration camp as Stalin's son IIRC. Allegedly for helping Jews, despite having anti-semitic views. Controversial figure. But that doesn't fit your narrative, does it? Black or white, putinist or nazi, no other options.

[DaRude]

Looks like this is not the first time around, CIA operation Red Sox, US sponsors Ukrainians who weren't just Nazis but did Nazis' "dirty work". And who's the head of said directly linked Nazi group OUN (Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists)? You guessed it, the "hero" Stepan Bandera.

Bandera was a Ukrainian nationalist, who fought against Soviets and against Nazis. Ended up imprisoned in the same concentration camp as Stalin's son IIRC. Allegedly for helping Jews, despite having anti-semitic views. Controversial figure. But that doesn't fit your narrative, does it? Black or white, putinist or nazi, no other options.

Oh he fought against Nazis, now did he? Care to site how many Nazis he killed, jews he helped (i'd love to read about that) to offset tens of thousand innocent people women and children he murdered, so you feel justified calling him "controversial" instead of straight out condemning this asshole? I'm guessing with such logic, you consider Hitler to be a controversial figure as well? I mean, he drew paintings and surely you can dig up some article of Hitler saving a kitten or a puppy or killing one Nazi at some point in his life before WW2? Are totenkopf, wolfsangle, blacksun, swastikas, and sieg heils are also just "controversial" articles for you, cause you know they were used before Nazi's?

Let's see what's Israelis stance on this point.

His group also was involved in the ethnic cleansing that killed tens of thousands of Poles in 1942-44. The Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists portrayed Russians, Poles, Hungarians and Jews — most of the minorities in western Ukraine — as aliens and encouraged locals to “destroy” Poles and Jews.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/kiev-renames-major-street-to-honor-russian-nazi-collaborator/

But that's back from 2015, i'm sure it has cleaned up since then right? From 2021 article:

Israel’s ambassador condemned the torchlight march Friday in Kyiv in memory of Stepan Bandera, issuing the strongest rebuke yet by an Israeli official of the event, which has grown in scope amid rising nationalism in Ukraine.

“We strongly condemn any glorification of collaborators with the Nazi regime. It is time for Ukraine to come to terms with its past,” Ambassador Joel Lion wrote on Twitter Saturday.
During World War II, Bandera led the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, whose men killed thousands of Jews and Poles, including women and children, while fighting alongside Nazi Germany against the Red Army and communists.

Expressions of admiration for Bandera and other collaborators have increased in scope and status following the 2014 revolution in Ukraine, which toppled the regime of Viktor Yanukovych amid claims that he is a Russian stooge, and triggered an armed conflict with Russia.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hundreds-march-in-ukraine-in-annual-tribute-to-nazi-collaborator/

Hmm okay how about other experts on this, the Germans

BURGER (AA): Die Bundesregierung verurteilt und stellt sich gegen jede Form von Antisemitismus und gegen jede Glorifizierung der Verbrechen der Nazis. Ich kann Ihnen ergänzend sagen, dass wir natürlich auch die von der Organisation Ukrainischer Nationalisten teilweise unter Leitung Banderas begangenen Verbrechen insbesondere an Zivilisten verurteilen. Ein erheblicher Anteil ‑ das muss man im Kopf behalten ‑ dieser Verbrechen wurde in Kollaboration mit deutschen Besatzungstruppen begangen.

Google Translate
BURGER (AA): The federal government condemns and opposes any form of anti-Semitism and any glorification of Nazi crimes. I can also tell you that we of course also condemn the crimes committed by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, in part under the leadership of Bandera, especially against civilians. A significant proportion - one must keep this in mind - of these crimes was committed in collaboration with German occupying forces.

https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/newsroom/regierungspressekonferenz/2505386

I guess Germany and Israel don't know what you know, you should explain to them how this guy was "controversial". The guy literally killed 10.000 of innocent people, and you reluctance to call spade a spade is concerning. This really needs to be a litmus test, if you in any way support a guy that killed 10.000 of thousands  (uncontested) of innocent people you're a Nazi sympathizer or collaborator. He doesn't seem to be so controversial in Ukraine if government (presumably after lots of discussions) decided to name a street in a capital after this murderer.

Edit: If in your eyes Bandera is "controversial" care to provide an example of Nazi collaborators who you don't find to be controversial, or are you saying that all Nazi collaborators are somewhat controversial because they all can claim to be nationalists?  

[paxmao]

Again, all this is good for short distance. UKR is now getting proper siege artillery, the modern ones that are accurate, fast firing and come with a range of ammo for various situations. We have already seen footage and my guess is we are going to see much more.

You are great for not losing heart. Meanwhile, 700 people left Azovstal during the day, and the total number of those who surrendered exceeded 900 people. I think the next tactical boiler will be near Avdeevka or near Lisichansk-Severodonetsk. Here and there, under the threat of encirclement of the APU grouping of about 15,000 soldiers, with Zelensky's order to stand to the death.

Loosing heart? The morale and conviction of Ukraine is 100x the Russ. It has taken your glorious Psychos in Chief months to defeat a regiment even under continuous shelling and siege. Is that how you intent to play this war?

Threat of encirclement.. blah blah... The Psychos in Chief of Putin's army have steadily been loosing ground. Interesting... a SU-34 has been downed near Kupiansk. In theory that is occupied territory. I think you got your prediction way out of reality.

Meanwhile, for those that have a VPN, please see here why you should not die for Putin not let your loved ones go to this war. Do not die for Putin.

Do not die for Putin.

...
Yep. Maybe we can send something better, for example, combat lasers to fight drones. Russia has a lot of tricks up its sleeve, some of which you don't even know about.

...

Sure, it is just that Putin is not subscribed to Amazon Prime and he does not get next day delivery to the front. That is why Russia has fielded an army from the 80's. All those tricks are secret... shhhh don't tell.

combat lasers to fight drones

You watch too much Star Wars.

Russia will begin to dictate its will to the West

Yeah about that... the time has passed. While Putin had the West by its gaseous balls, and hadn't started any recent wars, he could have extorted a lot of things for himself and maybe even for Russia if he was so inclined. He pissed away all of his influence. The only "West" he can "dictate" is Lukashenko.

I am starting to believe that he may not have 100% grip on Lukash either. Self-preservation is strong in despots.

The first soldier judged, many more to come  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61496428

Do not kill for Putin. Do not die for Putin.