Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[Branko]

Some sources point to the Pope encouraging peace talks. In my view, the Pope has to seek peace, that is his endowment. Note that he urged "parties" to negotiate, not Ukraine to surrender. Unfortunately the Ruzzian proposal is simply to get all they have as of today plus all Kherson, Zaporizilla,... As anyone may understand, that is not really a plan.

It was done deal, until UK sent Boris Johnson

I don't think he said a white flag means losing or something like that. He means Ukraine should try negotiating again with Russia to find a peaceful resolution. 

Yes, but I would rather say Ruzzia negotiating with Ukraine for the first time, seriously, with demands that are actually achievable rather than an unconditional surrender. But anyway, that is not happening anytime soon. Putin is all right to burn through the Soviet reserves of vehicles, try to repairs the A-50 while getting dronned and launching "meatwaves" for a few hundred meters.

I am mentioning the A-50 because yesterday Ukraine managed to drone attack the factory where one was being repaired. Is like if they knew it was there ... you know.

"First time" was long ago

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[xandriel]

  Now the game is about who has more UAVs than the enemy. The war tactics have changed. I agree, there is no way Russia and Ukraine can make peace right now. The war will continue, and one side will lose many things.

[paxmao]

Now the game is about who has more UAVs than the enemy. The war tactics have changed. I agree, there is no way Russia and Ukraine can make peace right now. The war will continue, and one side will lose many things.

Both sides will loose many things. The winners of this war are not Ruzzia nor Ukraine, even if they achieve any degree of military success.

The UAVs are an important weapon, but as of now it is much more about having artillery and in the case of Ruzzia, larger bombs. If Ukraine succeeds in flipping the air battle by either destroying enough Ruzzian planes or by changing the balance with air defences or F-16s from US and Europe, then Ruzzia could end in the receiving end of 100 daily 1500 kg bombs. If Europe succeeds in finding or producing enough shells to math or get near the Ruzzia's average it can also be a determinant factor. 

[LTU_btc]

Seems that Ukrainian drones found new target in Russia - several oil refineries were hit in multiple locations yesterday and today. Facikities in Nizhny Novgorod, Ryazan and Rostov were hit and seems that damage was significant
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-launches-drone-attacks-russia-second-night-row-officials-say-2024-03-13/
https://youtu.be/Z6Bq0rzvihY?si=DNBm1bSXagCHsmZk
According to Bloomberg, in these facikities there is about 12% of Russian oil is made. If such attacks will continue, consequences can be very painful for Russia.

[paxmao]

Seems that Ukrainian drones found new target in Russia - several oil refineries were hit in multiple locations yesterday and today. Facikities in Nizhny Novgorod, Ryazan and Rostov were hit and seems that damage was significant
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-launches-drone-attacks-russia-second-night-row-officials-say-2024-03-13/
https://youtu.be/Z6Bq0rzvihY?si=DNBm1bSXagCHsmZk
According to Bloomberg, in these facikities there is about 12% of Russian oil is made. If such attacks will continue, consequences can be very painful for Russia.

This is becoming a far too expensive war for Ruzzia. Putin probably does not care much about using the money for this and the Ruzzians are not going to revolt in the short term for this but...if the trend of refineries being struck continues it may eventually have an effect on the front - not just because the Ruzzian economy really feels the irect pain if this continues, also because it may simply be impossible to defend the vastness of Ruzzia.

Speaking of which, it seems that there are combats in Belgorod. Ruzzian patriots (revolutionaries) have been fighting actively in what is Ruzzian territory. Ruzzia will waste resources too trying to cover such  a large front.

[Branko]

Seems that Ukrainian drones found new target in Russia - several oil refineries were hit in multiple locations yesterday and today. Facikities in Nizhny Novgorod, Ryazan and Rostov were hit and seems that damage was significant
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-launches-drone-attacks-russia-second-night-row-officials-say-2024-03-13/
https://youtu.be/Z6Bq0rzvihY?si=DNBm1bSXagCHsmZk
According to Bloomberg, in these facikities there is about 12% of Russian oil is made. If such attacks will continue, consequences can be very painful for Russia.

This is becoming a far too expensive war for Ruzzia. Putin probably does not care much about using the money for this and the Ruzzians are not going to revolt in the short term for this but...if the trend of refineries being struck continues it may eventually have an effect on the front - not just because the Ruzzian economy really feels the irect pain if this continues, also because it may simply be impossible to defend the vastness of Ruzzia.

Speaking of which, it seems that there are combats in Belgorod. Ruzzian patriots (revolutionaries) have been fighting actively in what is Ruzzian territory. Ruzzia will waste resources too trying to cover such  a large front.

Its just a show organized by rooineks to hide bad Ukrainian situation

[xminer]

This is becoming a far too expensive war for Ruzzia.

Yes, the stakes are constantly going up - Ukraine has failed to prevent war (it had at least 4 months to do something - starting with direct negotiations or outmaneuvering Putin by providing unconditional amnesty to separatists - just like it happened with Chechnya), has failed to solve it at the start - when the costs were low. So now, when the costs went over the top and Ukraine stays bold on its desire to ruin Russia - Russia has to justify the resources spent for this conflict, and the "justified" mark is constantly moving upwards towards total elimination of Ukraine as a state.

"Peace talks" now for Ukraine equals death (at least "political death") for everyone at the top - their actions have caused lots of losses, they've spent enormous amount of resources and credit costs without any real achievements. For Russia - it'll not look like a victory either as the initial political goals were not achieved and are as far as never before. Though I believe the real goals were by far not the ones declared - give a "magic kick" to industry by forcing outsiders run out and prepare for the next "modern" war. Yes - this conflict is simply a costly preparation to the next.

[paxmao]

This is becoming a far too expensive war for Ruzzia.

Yes, the stakes are constantly going up - Ukraine has failed to prevent war (it had at least 4 months to do something - starting with direct negotiations or outmaneuvering Putin by providing unconditional amnesty to separatists - just like it happened with Chechnya), has failed to solve it at the start - when the costs were low. So now, when the costs went over the top and Ukraine stays bold on its desire to ruin Russia - Russia has to justify the resources spent for this conflict, and the "justified" mark is constantly moving upwards towards total elimination of Ukraine as a state.

"Peace talks" now for Ukraine equals death (at least "political death") for everyone at the top - their actions have caused lots of losses, they've spent enormous amount of resources and credit costs without any real achievements. For Russia - it'll not look like a victory either as the initial political goals were not achieved and are as far as never before. Though I believe the real goals were by far not the ones declared - give a "magic kick" to industry by forcing outsiders run out and prepare for the next "modern" war. Yes - this conflict is simply a costly preparation to the next.

You are thinking  a mixture "martingale" style and sunken costs fallacy -  Since Ruzzia's cost is going up, they have to double down on the cost to try to achieve a bigger victory. Now, why don't you try playing Roulette with that mentality? Or anything else for that matter (options, shares, ...)? The fact is that is that Ruzzia may simply not be able to reach the great objective of suppressing Ukraine as state and should probably be thinking at this point of leaving the table.

But you are right in one thing - that is the Kremlin mentality, double on the bet no matter the cost, no matter the effort,... if a tyrant gets it wrong, people may be getting strange ideas about who should be in charge uh?

Ukraine failed to prevent the war? You know that Putin's "proposal" for peace included basically getting Ukraine to have no army nor any sensible means of defence? Who in his right mind would accept to be pre-defeated so that Putin had an easier time invading. I think someone in the Kremlin had lost it to even propose that.

Some sources point to the Pope encouraging peace talks. In my view, the Pope has to seek peace, that is his endowment. Note that he urged "parties" to negotiate, not Ukraine to surrender. Unfortunately the Ruzzian proposal is simply to get all they have as of today plus all Kherson, Zaporizilla,... As anyone may understand, that is not really a plan.

It was done deal, until UK sent Boris Johnson

Well, I guess Boris got at least this one thing right then.

[Branko]

Well, I guess Boris got at least this one thing right then.

Tell that to hundreds of thousands dead Ukrainians and their relatives

[BADecker]

Well, I guess Boris got at least this one thing right then.

Tell that to hundreds of thousands dead Ukrainians and their relatives

Right! I would guess that maybe millions of Ukrainians who migrated to other countries are thanking God or their lucky stars that they migrated when they did. And many of them are cursing Zelensky and the US because of their relatives killed, and their destroyed homeland.

[paxmao]

While we are discussing, another oil facility in Ruzzia is burning.

Well, I guess Boris got at least this one thing right then.

Tell that to hundreds of thousands dead Ukrainians and their relatives

How do we know they would not have been starved to death by the millions like Stalin did for the "greater benefit of Ruzzians"? They way to have kept Ukrainians alive would have been simply not to invade Ukraine.

It is again the same old narrative in which you kill someone, but somehow they are the ones to blame because they did not want to do what you told them to do. Mafia mentality at its best.

Well, I guess Boris got at least this one thing right then.

Tell that to hundreds of thousands dead Ukrainians and their relatives

Right! I would guess that maybe millions of Ukrainians who migrated to other countries are thanking God or their lucky stars that they migrated when they did. And many of them are cursing Zelensky and the US because of their relatives killed, and their destroyed homeland.

If they blame Zelensky all they have to do is go to Ruzzia, but my guess is not precisely Zelensky who they blame when a Ruzzian missile hits their home.

[Branko]

How do we know they would not have been starved to death by the millions like Stalin did for the "greater benefit of Ruzzians"? They way to have kept Ukrainians alive would have been simply not to invade Ukraine.

How many Georgians Russia starved/killed/exiled after Georgia lost war with Russia?

Only rooinek puppet Saakashvili?

[paxmao]

How do we know they would not have been starved to death by the millions like Stalin did for the "greater benefit of Ruzzians"? They way to have kept Ukrainians alive would have been simply not to invade Ukraine.

How many Georgians Russia starved/killed/exiled after Georgia lost war with Russia?

Only rooinek puppet Saakashvili?

How many Georgians can actually say if that happened? I mean, without getting a free flight out of the window? What information is available of what Ruzzia does or does not?

The modus operandi is always the same, Ruzzia governs a region taking but not giving, thus people are mostly impoverish, thus they join the Ruzzian army to make their livign (or die trying) so Ruzzia wages war in another region. I am not surprised Ukraine would rather choose something different, even if it takes blood and sweat to gain their freedom from Putin and the Ruzzians.

The option for Ukraine to "surrender so that you are not killed" does not really exist. It is more an option to be killed later at the service of the Ruzzian empire. The option of "negotiating peace" in Putin's terms does not exist, it is just waiting for the next war when the oil is up and Putin get the army back in shape. All those alternatives are just mirages and false solutions.

[BADecker]

How do we know they would not have been starved to death by the millions like Stalin did for the "greater benefit of Ruzzians"? They way to have kept Ukrainians alive would have been simply not to invade Ukraine.

How many Georgians Russia starved/killed/exiled after Georgia lost war with Russia?

Only rooinek puppet Saakashvili?

How many Georgians can actually say if that happened? I mean, without getting a free flight out of the window? What information is available of what Ruzzia does or does not?

The modus operandi is always the same, Ruzzia governs a region taking but not giving, thus people are mostly impoverish, thus they join the Ruzzian army to make their livign (or die trying) so Ruzzia wages war in another region. I am not surprised Ukraine would rather choose something different, even if it takes blood and sweat to gain their freedom from Putin and the Ruzzians.

The option for Ukraine to "surrender so that you are not killed" does not really exist. It is more an option to be killed later at the service of the Ruzzian empire. The option of "negotiating peace" in Putin's terms does not exist, it is just waiting for the next war when the oil is up and Putin get the army back in shape. All those alternatives are just mirages and false solutions.

But the new Russia has been playing the game since 1991. Countries join Russia because they make sense. The coup and the war started by Ukraine against Russia in 2014, by the US, shows just exactly how the US doesn't make sense for people. BRICS shows how Russia and the world are trying to get back to solidity (gold) rather than buying and selling paper like the US.

True, Russia has not changed their goals regarding worldwide conquest. They have simply changed their methods. But it is the US that is doing worldwide conquest, not Russia. Ukraine would be far better off if they surrendered to Russia. But all you have to do is ask her people. It was only a vicious handful of Ukrainians that wanted the war... and it still is.

[Branko]

How do we know they would not have been starved to death by the millions like Stalin did for the "greater benefit of Ruzzians"? They way to have kept Ukrainians alive would have been simply not to invade Ukraine.

How many Georgians Russia starved/killed/exiled after Georgia lost war with Russia?

Only rooinek puppet Saakashvili?

How many Georgians can actually say if that happened? I mean, without getting a free flight out of the window? What information is available of what Ruzzia does or does not?

The modus operandi is always the same, Ruzzia governs a region taking but not giving, thus people are mostly impoverish, thus they join the Ruzzian army to make their livign (or die trying) so Ruzzia wages war in another region. I am not surprised Ukraine would rather choose something different, even if it takes blood and sweat to gain their freedom from Putin and the Ruzzians.

The option for Ukraine to "surrender so that you are not killed" does not really exist. It is more an option to be killed later at the service of the Ruzzian empire. The option of "negotiating peace" in Putin's terms does not exist, it is just waiting for the next war when the oil is up and Putin get the army back in shape. All those alternatives are just mirages and false solutions.

Umm, you're aware Georgia is sovereign state, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)

[paxmao]

How do we know they would not have been starved to death by the millions like Stalin did for the "greater benefit of Ruzzians"? They way to have kept Ukrainians alive would have been simply not to invade Ukraine.

How many Georgians Russia starved/killed/exiled after Georgia lost war with Russia?

Only rooinek puppet Saakashvili?

How many Georgians can actually say if that happened? I mean, without getting a free flight out of the window? What information is available of what Ruzzia does or does not?

The modus operandi is always the same, Ruzzia governs a region taking but not giving, thus people are mostly impoverish, thus they join the Ruzzian army to make their livign (or die trying) so Ruzzia wages war in another region. I am not surprised Ukraine would rather choose something different, even if it takes blood and sweat to gain their freedom from Putin and the Ruzzians.

The option for Ukraine to "surrender so that you are not killed" does not really exist. It is more an option to be killed later at the service of the Ruzzian empire. The option of "negotiating peace" in Putin's terms does not exist, it is just waiting for the next war when the oil is up and Putin get the army back in shape. All those alternatives are just mirages and false solutions.

Umm, you're aware Georgia is sovereign state, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)

Sure, if you say so it is so. But you are missing a bit of information there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

The 2008 Russo-Georgian War[note 3] was a war between Russia, alongside the Russian-backed self-proclaimed republics of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and Georgia.

What happened there Branko? They did not listen to the "peace plan" consisting on doing what they were told from Moscow?

On 1 August 2008, the Russian-backed South Ossetian forces started shelling Georgian villages, with a sporadic response from Georgian peacekeepers in the area.[32][33][34][35][36] Intensifying artillery attacks by the South Ossetian separatists broke a 1992 ceasefire agreement.[37][38][39][40] To put an end to these attacks, Georgian army units were sent into the South Ossetian conflict zone on 7 August and took control of most of Tskhinvali, a separatist stronghold, within hours.[41][42][43] Some Russian troops had illicitly crossed the Georgia–Russia border through the Roki Tunnel and advanced into the South Ossetian conflict zone by 7 August before the Georgian military response.[39][44][45][46][47][48][49][50] Russia falsely accused Georgia of committing "genocide"[51][52] and "aggression against South Ossetia"[41]—and launched a full-scale land, air and sea invasion of Georgia, including its undisputed territory, on 8 August, referring to it as a "peace enforcement" operation.[53]

does this sound familar Branko? Self-proclaimed republics? The Kremlin "protecting them"? Separatist forces starting a war backed by Ruzzia? What a coincidence Branko! If you change the names (Georgia - Ukraine, South Osetia - Luhansk) it is exactly what happened in Ukraine. One wonders if this was due to "denazification" or because the "NATO was expanding in Georgia".... or maybe it is simply that Putin wants the USSR back (like you I assume).

[Branko]

Sure, if you say so it is so. But you are missing a bit of information there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

The 2008 Russo-Georgian War[note 3] was a war between Russia, alongside the Russian-backed self-proclaimed republics of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and Georgia.

What happened there Branko? They did not listen to the "peace plan" consisting on doing what they were told from Moscow?

What happened? Yankee/rooinek puppet was sent to Georgia to incite problems with Russia.
Same guy went to UKRAINE and surprise, surprise, as if troubles followed him there too.

But what happened to Georgians...are they all sent to Gulag, executed...?
Or  were they lucky that Boris Johnson didn't come to "help" with negotiations?

BTW, nice that they changed artcle on wikipedia meantime, so Russian owned
Reuters got corrected:

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE58T4MO/

[paxmao]

Sure, if you say so it is so. But you are missing a bit of information there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

The 2008 Russo-Georgian War[note 3] was a war between Russia, alongside the Russian-backed self-proclaimed republics of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and Georgia.

What happened there Branko? They did not listen to the "peace plan" consisting on doing what they were told from Moscow?

What happened? Yankee/rooinek puppet was sent to Georgia to incite problems with Russia.
Same guy went to UKRAINE and surprise, surprise, as if troubles followed him there too.

But what happened to Georgians...are they all sent to Gulag, executed...?
Or  were they lucky that Boris Johnson didn't come to "help" with negotiations?

BTW, nice that they changed artcle on wikipedia meantime, so Russian owned
Reuters got corrected:

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE58T4MO/

Ah... so whenever Putin invades another country or promotes separatist to generate a proxi-war is the fault of the US - they even send the same mysterious guy and voila!. Putin has no imperialist goals, only cares about what is best for all? Or for the Slave "race" maybe? ... I see, interesting theory.

Let me ask you the same question then, how many Ukrainians would be dying if Putin had not sent the army? Would it be so bad for Ukrainians to join the European Union and start getting a chance at prosperity? What is so wrong with it?

Putin is not there to "free" anyone, it is there to kill whoever gets in the way of his empire. I am not sure what happened to all Georgians, I am certain of the ones that were killed by Putin's vision of the world and what is the place of Ruzzians. Not even of Ruzzians really, more of the Moscovian and Petesbourgian elites.

I am not sure if you believe that Ruzzia still represents somehow any ideals other than Tzarism. They are no longer commies Branko, they are just as capitalist and corrupted as it gets and if you feel they are protecting some idea of pan-Slavism or a type of culture I do not think is the case either. This is just the elites of Ruzzia versus the elites of other countries and, in the middle, the Ukrainians trying to get a decent future for their children.

[Branko]

Ah... so whenever Putin invades another country or promotes separatist to generate a proxi-war is the fault of the US - they even send the same mysterious guy and voila!. Putin has no imperialist goals, only cares about what is best for all? Or for the Slave "race" maybe? ... I see, interesting theory.

Let me ask you the same question then, how many Ukrainians would be dying if Putin had not sent the army? Would it be so bad for Ukrainians to join the European Union and start getting a chance at prosperity? What is so wrong with it?

Putin is not there to "free" anyone, it is there to kill whoever gets in the way of his empire. I am not sure what happened to all Georgians, I am certain of the ones that were killed by Putin's vision of the world and what is the place of Ruzzians. Not even of Ruzzians really, more of the Moscovian and Petesbourgian elites.

I am not sure if you believe that Ruzzia still represents somehow any ideals other than Tzarism. They are no longer commies Branko, they are just as capitalist and corrupted as it gets and if you feel they are protecting some idea of pan-Slavism or a type of culture I do not think is the case either. This is just the elites of Ruzzia versus the elites of other countries and, in the middle, the Ukrainians trying to get a decent future for their children.

I have surprise for you...its ALWAYS elites, on all sides. But for some reason Rooineks, Yankees, Russians...all want it to be THEIR elites
At this time, its Rooinek and Yankee elites at Russian doorstep, not the other way around
Keep your "Rooineks and Yankees are here to bring freedom and democracy" childish comments for some more naive people

[paxmao]

Ah... so whenever Putin invades another country or promotes separatist to generate a proxi-war is the fault of the US - they even send the same mysterious guy and voila!. Putin has no imperialist goals, only cares about what is best for all? Or for the Slave "race" maybe? ... I see, interesting theory.

Let me ask you the same question then, how many Ukrainians would be dying if Putin had not sent the army? Would it be so bad for Ukrainians to join the European Union and start getting a chance at prosperity? What is so wrong with it?

Putin is not there to "free" anyone, it is there to kill whoever gets in the way of his empire. I am not sure what happened to all Georgians, I am certain of the ones that were killed by Putin's vision of the world and what is the place of Ruzzians. Not even of Ruzzians really, more of the Moscovian and Petesbourgian elites.

I am not sure if you believe that Ruzzia still represents somehow any ideals other than Tzarism. They are no longer commies Branko, they are just as capitalist and corrupted as it gets and if you feel they are protecting some idea of pan-Slavism or a type of culture I do not think is the case either. This is just the elites of Ruzzia versus the elites of other countries and, in the middle, the Ukrainians trying to get a decent future for their children.

I have surprise for you...its ALWAYS elites, on all sides. But for some reason Rooineks, Yankees, Russians...all want it to be THEIR elites
At this time, its Rooinek and Yankee elites at Russian doorstep, not the other way around
Keep your "Rooineks and Yankees are here to bring freedom and democracy" childish comments for some more naive people

Well, it seems that I have a surprise for you: it is not always the elites. The most notable examples of revolutions in history (France, USSR, China's cultural revolution, Romania,...) did not come from the wealthy elites, but rather from people who were tired of being taken advantage of. Yes, nobody is going to bring democracy or a participative regime to a country just like that and there will always be external influences, but in the end, it is the people who decide if they are willing to fight to change the way things are and if they can get away with it.

RE freedom, not everything is the same. Iran is not Norway, China is not France and Putin's Ruzzia is not the European Union. All of them have pressures and allies or presence of whatever bases, but what a citizen can do and the economic constrains are completely different. You could probably understand this better if you were a woman in Saudi Arabia, an homosexual in Iran or anyone in North Korea.  Liberty does exist to many degrees.

 I think most Ukrainians do want that change because they know that whatever comes from Moscow is going to be good... for Moscow. They simply want to have the freedom to decide their destiny by themselves and I do not see how this cannot be fair.