Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[be.open]

Meanwhile, the second phase of the Ukrainian counter-offensive, announced yesterday, began with a crushing defeat on the Zaporizhia front near Rabotino. Ukraine threw its strategic reserves into organizing a breakthrough, and dozens of armored vehicles remained on fire on the battlefield.

[1714755746]

1714755746

[1714755746]

1714755746

[1714755746]

1714755746

[DaRude]

...
You are wrong in all your statements. See, you do not have to look for anything.

My own statement does not justify attacking non-critical infrastructure nor acts of terrorism (which would be veeeery easy to carry out by Ukraine if they wanted). While it might even be a false flag, the fact is that the Ruzzian Mod is 300 meters from there. My statement signifies that an attack on a legitimate target in Moscow may open the eyes of many to the sad reality: their government cannot even defend itself and this war is not something happening at 1000 clicks away.

If you deflect a drone it will land in another place. If you are in Moscow that "other place" is likely to be inhabited by humans. If the Ruzzians use a system that protects the Ministry by making drones fall in the vicinity means that they would rather protect the Ministry than other inhabited buildings in the surroundings.

And now that you understand why you are wrong and I am right, shall we talk about throwing missiles to grain silos as terror?

As an alternative I suggest talking about inflation in Ruzzia. Another interesting topic.

with such low effort arguments you've done a great job at discrediting yourself, at which point this just feels like a great waste of time on my part, so i guess you got me, good job on that front.

Your statements do not merit anything else.

...
Grain silos:
Objective facts - excess grain for export, China was to be the main consumer. Part of the larger end of the grain deal
Results - Financial and political pressure on the "west". Event removes revenue stream from UA, opens up markets for RF grain, excess UA grain would flood Poland & Romania undercutting local farmers and further raising social tensions there. Poland and Hungary threaten to cut Ukraine’s export route to the West
UA coverage - RF is starting new holodomor for...whole world? and only UA grain can save the children. Try to get as much coverage to stay in news headlines, bring attention to yearly child deaths in Cuba as a consequence of blockade starving children elsewhere in the world.
RF coverage - target was used as military infrastructure to create and launch sea drones that attacked bridge in Crimea

Facts - You argue that a drone hitting a commercial building near the Ministry is terror, but the attack on food storages is ok. Why would I need to make an effort to rebate that, you are doing great on your own.

The complaints of eastern European farmers were already there even during the grain deal, so is not a result of breaking it. The solution is simple: Ukrainian grain would only be for export, not for local markets. It is a mere regulatory issue.

Ruzzia is already a grain exporter. But let me ask you: If the grain from Ukraine to China is replaced with grain from Ruzzia... what happens to the price of grain inside Ruzzia? If you ask me, the RF citizens are going to pay extra and is not a luxury product, it is the most basic food. I hope they feel glorious about it.

A deal has two sides. It is not that Ruzzia is creating hunger, is that by not reaching an agreement grain prices will be higher. Everywhere, including those places in which the price will not be affordable. Casually, many of those countries are friendly to the Ruzzian cause... for now.

As for the economic effect in US, it will be positive, they produce grain like crazy and now they can sell it more expensive.

Regarding Europe, the cost of food is not really a concern. Production and demand are quite controlled.

RF inflation:
Objective facts - USD=90RUB Russia notched a victory in the fight for influence over global oil markets in recent days when the price of the country’s most coveted crude traded above a Western price cap imposed to starve Moscow of funds for the war in Ukraine.
Result - Financial pressure on RF.
UA coverage - RF will financially collapse any second now, keep raising support for war effort. Cost of RF imports will skyrocket
RF coverage - RF oil/gas exports are priced in USD but expenses state budget and military salaries are paid in RUB. So high exchange rate actually helps budget surplus. Food is local grown and denominated in RUB so no inflation, but iPhone imports will cost more.

Now what's more worrying to me is all the recent ruckus going on around Poland. Seems the "west" has exhausted current list of available escalations, so a potential next step appears to be Poland making a bilateral defense pact with Ukraine and sending in their troops to UA (entering the conflict on their own "outside" of NATO framework). This would compensate all of the lost manpower in UA, yet supposedly keep NATO out of direct confrontation. Seems like RF is prepping Belarus, nukes, and general mobilization as a hedge against such development.

Inflation:
Are you clueless about what inflation is? You just throw there some economic non-facts and then say I am not doing enough effort to rebate? Gee dude... you need to try to have some self-criticism.

This is not about coverage, this is about the interest rates (currently 8.5%, previously at 20%) that the RF has to keep so that they do not spiral into hyperinflation. The only person with a brain in the whole Ruzzian government is Nabiullina, but she can only do what she can. You know what is paying a mortgage nowadays at nearly 10%, that is more than double than 2 just two years ago?

That is inflation.


Escalations:

Oh my friend, the "available escalations" are endless... ATACMS, F-35s, more F-16s, more Abrahms, ... The only reason this is not happening is because the US is absolutely fine with Ruzzia fighting this war and self-demilitarising the Soviet arsenals without any US soldier killed. The game of proxies is so old.

I have said it over and over, there is a winner to this, but is not Ruzzia, is not Germany, is not Poland and is not Ukraine (may be in the future, not as of now).

 And China too -  cheap oil right when they are in a crisis.

I see, so it appears that reading comprehension is at issue here. Show me where i claim that "hitting a commercial building near the Ministry is terror, but the attack on food storages is ok"   (hint: you won't find it!)

"The solution is simple: Ukrainian grain would only be for export, not for local markets. It is a mere regulatory issue"
Well, technically that's for EU to decide. With 5 weeks left till September, limits on heating and temperature inside the house, with pictures of elderly and lower class going to McDonald's to warm up, and food inflation at 16,41% do you trust bureaucrats not to touch all this almost free grain and just let it rot? The degree can be argued but it's clear to raise political tension, and easy points for any opposition.

 
"If the grain from Ukraine to China is replaced with grain from Ruzzia... what happens to the price of grain inside Ruzzia? If you ask me, the RF citizens are going to pay extra and is not a luxury product, it is the most basic food. I hope they feel glorious about it."
Russia is having a good harvest year so much that they're giving tens of thousands of tons of free grain away, sure there's nothing free and they're using soft power to get political influence but that's besides the point. There are price limits on basic foodstuff in Russia, so prices on vegemite will go up, but locally produced products will stay the same for population. There's only an opportunity cost, loss of potential additional income.


As for the economic effect in US, it will be positive, they produce grain like crazy and now they can sell it more expensive.
Can you at least put a bit more effort in your arguments outside of typical BS targeted at the uneducated masses?
Both sides need to feed their spheres of influence. Look at the scale/population of US and RF spheres and populations they need to at least feed so they don't flip sides. This is obviously not about US generating income from LatAm/Africa/Asia, US can always print more money, but they cant print food, and without cheap UA exports things will get more difficult. Straight from USDA Russian wheat exports are forecast to hit a record 45.0 million tons in 2022/23, up 36 percent from the prior year and 3.5 million tons above its previous record in 2017/18.
Check out jump in RF exports just in one year and compare it with total UA export

Are you clueless about what inflation is?
You, funny  . Interest rates are not inflation. US average mortgage rates are at 7,34% even if RF is at 10% have they ever been at par with US and is the spread really that dramatic you make it out to be? You seem to be confusing inflation with currency devaluation/manipulation. Or rather, something tells me that you're well aware of this and just trying to mislead the masses, so instead let's try to educate them shall we?
Currency manipulation - by China or any other other country - is seen to flout global trading rules by conferring unfair competitive advantages. A country does so by artificially inflating or deflating its exchange rate. It may be designed to make exports more competitive, to avoid inflation or reduce capital inflows. as far as inflation yeah it's high Russian inflation above 4% target for first time since March, economy ministry says


Oh my friend, the "available escalations" are endless... ATACMS, F-35s, more F-16s, more Abrahms
ATACMS are mostly useless, UA is already using HIMARS with pods of 6 GMLRS missiles at a cost of $168k/each and range of 84km. That already puts Mariupol and almost everything to the sea of Azov as well as around 90% of all areas under RF control (outside Crimea) in rage. How much more will a single ~$1,5MM ATACMS missile in a pod get you? Only to harass Crimea, striking fear in RF population that completely forgot about the war and bathing with their kids on the beaches of Crimea during summer season, oh and perhaps a moral booster for UA propaganda looks we can ruin their summer vacations. Not even close to anything ground breaking.
Anyone who has followed this conflict at all, knows that the front lines are so over-saturated with mines, ATGMs and drones, that tanks are not real force multipliers anymore. Or have you already forgot about the "free the leopard" campaign? Diversion and reconnaissance groups having problems sneaking through, Abrahms with their jet engines could probably be spotted from space in IR.
Airspace is also saturated with SAMs from both sides, so much so that rockets get intercepted. Thinking that anyone will be able to dominate airspace and needs the extra functionality of F35s for some areal dogfights is delusional. F16s could be used to lob misses just like RF does now and that's about it. All previous major force multiplies have been neutralized from both sides, and that's not going to change, that why we see all of the trench warfare going on. Only thing that has a remote possibility of becoming a game changer are drones in huge capacities, scaled to a point of 1 drone per soldier. Such as Iran helping Russia build drone stockpile that is expected to be ‘orders of magnitude larger’ than previous arsenal, US says...US intelligence officials have warned that Russia is building a drone-manufacturing facility in country with Iran’s help that could have a significant impact on the war in Ukraine once it is completed. perhaps west is also working on this at such capacities undercover, or a jammer for each soldier? After all, we humans always find improved ways of killing each other.

Bottom line, winter is coming and we're in war of attrition. From the social, economical, political, and military fronts the weakest link on RF side looks to be economy which (with China) still appears resilient. From the west it's military, not the equipment but simpe manpower, which surprises absolutely no one. All other events are black swans/long shots.

[paxmao]

<wall of text...>

Inflation is linked to interest rates. Ruzzia keeps inflation low by having nearly double interest rates. Now, stuff more graphs there, but try to understand the basics of economy first.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act? A simple yes or no will suffice. I offer you a similar direct answer to any (non personal) similar question in exchange.

RE scalations, most of your assertions are false. ATACAMS have more range, more payload and are more difficult to intercept. The stormshadows are very obviously hitting high value targets, and I mean nearly every day,... You should try to read something that is not the official propaganda. The F-35 with some of the longer range rockets do not even need to get near to the front...

RE grain production in the US... well, your graph basically proves my point. US is a grain exporter and will benefit from higher prices. It is irrelevant if Ruzzia exports more or less, the price is the price. Look, seriously, just read ANY book on economy. You need them all.

Now, it seems that you are trying to deny any and all the capabilities built during decades by US and other... it just does not fly (note the pun), those weapons are effective like hell. The US has the potential to support Ukraine up by a factor of 10. They just do not want to - for now. Putin is nearly out of escalations other than nuclear, which he would loose (not that anyone wins in that case).

Latest thing, he is now promoting conflicts in Niger and Congo. But worry not, those will be dealt with in due time, first things first.

Anyway, while you theorise, reality is making a check on all that. Ukraine is moving at a faster pace and liberating some interesting bits of territory in the Zapo front. A trust towards Tohmak has become veeeeery posible. There are also some unconfirmed data on the lack of effectiveness of the "Surovikin line" of defence - there are not enough troops to actually defend it.

Oh, BTW, you are still thinking that somehow Europe has heating problems? Have you not read anything in the last year? Europe simply buys the gas from US an Norway, the countries affected are those that cannot pay the price.

[DaRude]

<wall of text...>

Inflation is linked to interest rates. Ruzzia keeps inflation low by having nearly double interest rates. Now, stuff more graphs there, but try to understand the basics of economy first.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act? A simple yes or no will suffice. I offer you a similar direct answer to any (non personal) similar question in exchange.

RE scalations, most of your assertions are false. ATACAMS have more range, more payload and are more difficult to intercept. The stormshadows are very obviously hitting high value targets, and I mean nearly every day,... You should try to read something that is not the official propaganda. The F-35 with some of the longer range rockets do not even need to get near to the front...

RE grain production in the US... well, your graph basically proves my point. US is a grain exporter and will benefit from higher prices. It is irrelevant if Ruzzia exports more or less, the price is the price. Look, seriously, just read ANY book on economy. You need them all.

Now, it seems that you are trying to deny any and all the capabilities built during decades by US and other... it just does not fly (note the pun), those weapons are effective like hell. The US has the potential to support Ukraine up by a factor of 10. They just do not want to - for now. Putin is nearly out of escalations other than nuclear, which he would loose (not that anyone wins in that case).

Latest thing, he is now promoting conflicts in Niger and Congo. But worry not, those will be dealt with in due time, first things first.

Anyway, while you theorise, reality is making a check on all that. Ukraine is moving at a faster pace and liberating some interesting bits of territory in the Zapo front. A trust towards Tohmak has become veeeeery posible. There are also some unconfirmed data on the lack of effectiveness of the "Surovikin line" of defence - there are not enough troops to actually defend it.

Oh, BTW, you are still thinking that somehow Europe has heating problems? Have you not read anything in the last year? Europe simply buys the gas from US an Norway, the countries affected are those that cannot pay the price.

I lost your point, so interest rate in US is now 5,5% and in Russia 3% higher at 8,5% (RUB) (was 20% at one point). What's your point, that Russian economy will collapse any second now?  China has become an "even more critical" economic partner for Russia, providing it with military equipment and helping the regime evade sanctions tied to the invasion of Ukraine, U.S. intelligence officials said in a report published Thursday. Totally unexpected, right? And look at Turkey, they're at 17,5% (TRY) going on few years at these high rates and they're not even at war.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act?
This feels like a friend/foe, are you with/against us groupthink litmus test i.e. completely useless and devoid of reasoning. But nevertheless since you've asked nicely i'll comply. For whom Ukraine? NO.
Long answer: to objectify this, i'd frame this as country A attacking commodity for export in country B with no loss of life. Technically, strictly by definition, I guess that should be considered terrorism, but an attack on power/heating/water infrastructure is not (because that is always claimed to have military use). That's counterproductive and takes away from the real acts of terrorism. To me, terrorism is intentional, direct, or directly linked, loss or serious injury to civilian population without military justification. e.g. bomb in a subway, airliner targeted into a building, destroying food to cause hunger... But admittedly it's a spectrum, if anything I'd argue that inverse should be true, taking out a power grid in a city is more damaging to civilians than attacking some export storage.

Exactly, UA already uses British storm shadow and France's SCALP that are already doing the exact same thing ATACMS would for anything that GMLRS might not be able to reach. But foreseeing that for PR purposes we will continue seeing this trend for every type of F16 missiles. And what longer range rockets are used on F-35 that cannot be used on F-16?

I don't understand how you can continue cheer for this stupid advance and keep raising expectations when they haven't even breached the first line of defense. Soldiers are literally being pushing onto mines, and are being forced to attack without any air defense, don't you think this is borderline suicidal? Do you really believe with all of the intel from US/NATO the "oh first we didn't expect them to have so many mines and now we forgot that RF has air force" is a valid justification? Time is already reporting straight up that Ukraine has too few soldiers left.

Ukraine's Counteroffensive Needs a Plan B
America’s “Plan A” in Ukraine is on life support.
...
They posited that even if Ukraine ultimately proved incapable of driving Russian forces off all of Ukraine’s territory, the counteroffensive would give Kyiv significant leverage at the diplomatic table.
...
Some six weeks into the Ukrainian counteroffensive, things are not going as planned. Although damage estimates vary, Ukraine has lost significant numbers of men and weapons, while making negligible progress against formidable Russian defenses.  

Despite vigorous recruiting and conscription efforts, Ukraine has too few soldiers to muster the three-to-one manpower advantage generally considered necessary for a successful offensive. Its supplies of artillery shells and anti-aircraft missiles, vital to battlefield success, are dwindling. As a result, Russia’s air force—which was sparingly used last year in the face of effective Ukrainian air defenses—is now operating more actively near the front lines, devastating Ukraine’s attacking forces.  

Finger-pointing for this failure is already underway. Increasingly, Ukrainian officials openly blame the West for not providing enough armor, aircraft, artillery, missiles, and ammunition. Anonymous American officials blame the Ukrainians for not conducting Western-style combined arms operations to outmaneuver and outpace their plodding Russian opponents.
...
But even such an extensive transformation would still not resolve Ukraine’s critical gap in this war: air power. According to the Congressional Research Service, Ukraine’s air force has 132 aircrafts, compared to 1,391 in Russia’s.  Providing Ukraine with a couple of dozen F-16 fighters, whose complex maintenance requirements make the aircraft ill-suited for conditions in Ukraine, will hardly bridge that gap.  As Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Mark Milley, told Politico in May, “There are no magic weapons in war, F-16s are not, and neither is anything else.”
...
if coupled with a diplomatic approach that incentivizes Russia to end the fighting rather than prolong it to keep Ukraine out of NATO, it could well prompt Russia to aim to secure its still quite limited gains through a negotiated end to the war. It is time to try.

So my question for you is at what point soldiers' lives should be considered and this carnage should stop being encouraged? Or are you in the "till the last Ukrainian until Crimea" camp?

[paxmao]

<wall of text...>

Inflation is linked to interest rates. Ruzzia keeps inflation low by having nearly double interest rates. Now, stuff more graphs there, but try to understand the basics of economy first.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act? A simple yes or no will suffice. I offer you a similar direct answer to any (non personal) similar question in exchange.

RE scalations, most of your assertions are false. ATACAMS have more range, more payload and are more difficult to intercept. The stormshadows are very obviously hitting high value targets, and I mean nearly every day,... You should try to read something that is not the official propaganda. The F-35 with some of the longer range rockets do not even need to get near to the front...

RE grain production in the US... well, your graph basically proves my point. US is a grain exporter and will benefit from higher prices. It is irrelevant if Ruzzia exports more or less, the price is the price. Look, seriously, just read ANY book on economy. You need them all.

Now, it seems that you are trying to deny any and all the capabilities built during decades by US and other... it just does not fly (note the pun), those weapons are effective like hell. The US has the potential to support Ukraine up by a factor of 10. They just do not want to - for now. Putin is nearly out of escalations other than nuclear, which he would loose (not that anyone wins in that case).

Latest thing, he is now promoting conflicts in Niger and Congo. But worry not, those will be dealt with in due time, first things first.

Anyway, while you theorise, reality is making a check on all that. Ukraine is moving at a faster pace and liberating some interesting bits of territory in the Zapo front. A trust towards Tohmak has become veeeeery posible. There are also some unconfirmed data on the lack of effectiveness of the "Surovikin line" of defence - there are not enough troops to actually defend it.

Oh, BTW, you are still thinking that somehow Europe has heating problems? Have you not read anything in the last year? Europe simply buys the gas from US an Norway, the countries affected are those that cannot pay the price.

I lost your point, so interest rate in US is now 5,5% and in Russia 3% higher at 8,5% (RUB) (was 20% at one point). What's your point, that Russian economy will collapse any second now?  China has become an "even more critical" economic partner for Russia, providing it with military equipment and helping the regime evade sanctions tied to the invasion of Ukraine, U.S. intelligence officials said in a report published Thursday. Totally unexpected, right? And look at Turkey, they're at 17,5% (TRY) going on few years at these high rates and they're not even at war.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act?
This feels like a friend/foe, are you with/against us groupthink litmus test i.e. completely useless and devoid of reasoning. But nevertheless since you've asked nicely i'll comply. For whom Ukraine? NO.
Long answer: to objectify this, i'd frame this as country A attacking commodity for export in country B with no loss of life. Technically, strictly by definition, I guess that should be considered terrorism, but an attack on power/heating/water infrastructure is not (because that is always claimed to have military use). That's counterproductive and takes away from the real acts of terrorism. To me, terrorism is intentional, direct, or directly linked, loss or serious injury to civilian population without military justification. e.g. bomb in a subway, airliner targeted into a building, destroying food to cause hunger... But admittedly it's a spectrum, if anything I'd argue that inverse should be true, taking out a power grid in a city is more damaging to civilians than attacking some export storage.
...

So my question for you is at what point soldiers' lives should be considered and this carnage should stop being encouraged? Or are you in the "till the last Ukrainian until Crimea" camp?

Obviously the question is not if is terrorism from Ukraine, but from the RF. It is obvious that you are judging with a double scale (and assuming that there is no loss of life when attacking a silo... a long shot).  It seem that the attack on the Ministry of defence is not terrorism at all by your (veeery peculiar definition).

Anyway, the Ruzzians are well past the border of terrorism since the beginning of the war, but you are going to deny and throw dirt on any proof, so I will just let the official institutions do their research  and then let you deny.

You have change your view on the effectiveness of weapons... not useless after all... good, good, ... now you just to get familiarised with the differences between and we then can talk again. A million possible escalations are possible from the Ukrainian side, simply because the aid is very limited in all aspects. Just read the Ukrainian requests to US and see how they are fine with using more and better weapons that do exist.

To your question, which I have answered in many posts - the fight has to continue until a result that guarantees a future stable peace is reached. It is no use to surrender "to save lives" if the conditions for the next invasion are setup. As of now, if Putin gets his way to a significant degree, there will be another war soon and then another...

But hey, I also have a peace plan, just like you! Until when should the RF army hold the occupied territories? Just leave and save all those lives you care so much about.

[cabron]

The Russia-Ukraine war may end very soon since Russia already hit their facilities, ammo storage, and ports. Russia and China just did a joint naval exercise near Japan, I think they are seeing the war happen in the Pacific soon.

This is where it gets really dangerous because there are already US military bases nearby. Japan doesn't have much firepower, they were demilitarized as well by the US a long time ago.

[BADecker]

<wall of text...>

Inflation is linked to interest rates. Ruzzia keeps inflation low by having nearly double interest rates. Now, stuff more graphs there, but try to understand the basics of economy first.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act? A simple yes or no will suffice. I offer you a similar direct answer to any (non personal) similar question in exchange.

RE scalations, most of your assertions are false. ATACAMS have more range, more payload and are more difficult to intercept. The stormshadows are very obviously hitting high value targets, and I mean nearly every day,... You should try to read something that is not the official propaganda. The F-35 with some of the longer range rockets do not even need to get near to the front...

RE grain production in the US... well, your graph basically proves my point. US is a grain exporter and will benefit from higher prices. It is irrelevant if Ruzzia exports more or less, the price is the price. Look, seriously, just read ANY book on economy. You need them all.

Now, it seems that you are trying to deny any and all the capabilities built during decades by US and other... it just does not fly (note the pun), those weapons are effective like hell. The US has the potential to support Ukraine up by a factor of 10. They just do not want to - for now. Putin is nearly out of escalations other than nuclear, which he would loose (not that anyone wins in that case).

Latest thing, he is now promoting conflicts in Niger and Congo. But worry not, those will be dealt with in due time, first things first.

Anyway, while you theorise, reality is making a check on all that. Ukraine is moving at a faster pace and liberating some interesting bits of territory in the Zapo front. A trust towards Tohmak has become veeeeery posible. There are also some unconfirmed data on the lack of effectiveness of the "Surovikin line" of defence - there are not enough troops to actually defend it.

Oh, BTW, you are still thinking that somehow Europe has heating problems? Have you not read anything in the last year? Europe simply buys the gas from US an Norway, the countries affected are those that cannot pay the price.

I lost your point, so interest rate in US is now 5,5% and in Russia 3% higher at 8,5% (RUB) (was 20% at one point). What's your point, that Russian economy will collapse any second now?  China has become an "even more critical" economic partner for Russia, providing it with military equipment and helping the regime evade sanctions tied to the invasion of Ukraine, U.S. intelligence officials said in a report published Thursday. Totally unexpected, right? And look at Turkey, they're at 17,5% (TRY) going on few years at these high rates and they're not even at war.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act?
This feels like a friend/foe, are you with/against us groupthink litmus test i.e. completely useless and devoid of reasoning. But nevertheless since you've asked nicely i'll comply. For whom Ukraine? NO.
Long answer: to objectify this, i'd frame this as country A attacking commodity for export in country B with no loss of life. Technically, strictly by definition, I guess that should be considered terrorism, but an attack on power/heating/water infrastructure is not (because that is always claimed to have military use). That's counterproductive and takes away from the real acts of terrorism. To me, terrorism is intentional, direct, or directly linked, loss or serious injury to civilian population without military justification. e.g. bomb in a subway, airliner targeted into a building, destroying food to cause hunger... But admittedly it's a spectrum, if anything I'd argue that inverse should be true, taking out a power grid in a city is more damaging to civilians than attacking some export storage.
...

So my question for you is at what point soldiers' lives should be considered and this carnage should stop being encouraged? Or are you in the "till the last Ukrainian until Crimea" camp?

Obviously the question is not if is terrorism from Ukraine, but from the RF. It is obvious that you are judging with a double scale (and assuming that there is no loss of life when attacking a silo... a long shot).  It seem that the attack on the Ministry of defence is not terrorism at all by your (veeery peculiar definition).

Anyway, the Ruzzians are well past the border of terrorism since the beginning of the war, but you are going to deny and throw dirt on any proof, so I will just let the official institutions do their research  and then let you deny.

You have change your view on the effectiveness of weapons... not useless after all... good, good, ... now you just to get familiarised with the differences between and we then can talk again. A million possible escalations are possible from the Ukrainian side, simply because the aid is very limited in all aspects. Just read the Ukrainian requests to US and see how they are fine with using more and better weapons that do exist.

To your question, which I have answered in many posts - the fight has to continue until a result that guarantees a future stable peace is reached. It is no use to surrender "to save lives" if the conditions for the next invasion are setup. As of now, if Putin gets his way to a significant degree, there will be another war soon and then another...

But hey, I also have a peace plan, just like you! Until when should the RF army hold the occupied territories? Just leave and save all those lives you care so much about.

But who can tell if you are telling the truth, or if Russia is?


Western special services created almost all major terrorist groups — Russian official


https://tass.com/politics/1651911
Almost all current major terrorist groups have been created, supplied and financed by special services that implement the decisions of Western countries, Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolay Patrushev said at a BRICS meeting in South Africa.

"Almost all major contemporary terrorist groups have been created, supplied and financed by special services implementing the political decisions of the leadership of Western countries," he said at a meeting of high representatives in charge of security issues from Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa in Johannesburg, according to the Rossiyskaya Gazeta newspaper.

He said terrorism "as it now exists, is a direct tool to promote the influence of the US and its satellites."

According to Patrushev, Moscow regards joint counterterrorism efforts as one of the priority areas of cooperation within BRICS.

"We oppose the politicization of international anti-terrorist cooperation and the application of double standards in this area. We are convinced that the fight against terrorism must be based on universal norms and principles of international law," the official said.
...

[be.open]

FT: Ukraine fires North Korean rockets to blast Russian positions

LOL

[paid2]

FT: Ukraine fires North Korean rockets to blast Russian positions

LOL

Isn't it the pig Cepгeй Шoйгy which is licking North Korean's asses actually ?

[be.open]

FT: Ukraine fires North Korean rockets to blast Russian positions

LOL

Isn't it the pig Cepгeй Шoйгy which is licking North Korean's asses actually ?

I have repeatedly come across unfounded accusations that North Korea is helping Russia with weapons, and then it suddenly turns out that Ukraine is firing North Korean missiles for Grad.

Meanwhile, on the Zaporizhia front, Ukraine is once again stepping up the pressure in an attempt to break through the Russian defenses. An amusing video of objective control appeared on the network, as one Russian tank enters the battle with two Ukrainian tanks and five MRAP M1224 MaxxPro armored vehicles. As a result of the clash, all Ukrainian armored vehicles and tanks were burned, and the Russian tank remained on the move.
Well done, crazy Russian.

And in the Svatovsky direction, Russia managed to capture the Swedish CV-90 infantry fighting vehicle. Now she will go to the rear for study, according to some experts, this is the best BMP in the Ukrainian theater of operations.

[BADecker]

FT: Ukraine fires North Korean rockets to blast Russian positions

LOL

Isn't it the pig Cepгeй Шoйгy which is licking North Korean's asses actually ?

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/07/29/Q4EOP.png

Come on!

North Korea is way more advanced than having to uses asses any longer...


 

[paxmao]

FT: Ukraine fires North Korean rockets to blast Russian positions

LOL

Isn't it the pig Cepгeй Шoйгy which is licking North Korean's asses actually ?

I have repeatedly come across unfounded accusations that North Korea is helping Russia with weapons, and then it suddenly turns out that Ukraine is firing North Korean missiles for Grad.

Meanwhile, on the Zaporizhia front, Ukraine is once again stepping up the pressure in an attempt to break through the Russian defenses. An amusing video of objective control appeared on the network, as one Russian tank enters the battle with two Ukrainian tanks and five MRAP M1224 MaxxPro armored vehicles. As a result of the clash, all Ukrainian armored vehicles and tanks were burned, and the Russian tank remained on the move.
Well done, crazy Russian.

And in the Svatovsky direction, Russia managed to capture the Swedish CV-90 infantry fighting vehicle. Now she will go to the rear for study, according to some experts, this is the best BMP in the Ukrainian theater of operations.

Ukraine has captured Ruzzian material in many occasions, do not assume that if - if - they are shooting with North Korean shit is because they got it from the sad little asshole that North Koreans have to endure as their supreme slave master.

Sure, you can have a look at the CV-90 (export version, devoid of the best state of the art), but it is unlikely that the RF can reproduce the electronics, optics,... at most they will be able to learn about the capabilities and calibrate with more detail, again of an "export" version.

FT: Ukraine fires North Korean rockets to blast Russian positions

LOL

It is good that you find it funny. Maybe someone you know was on the receiving end of that. Still funny?

[be.open]

FT: Ukraine fires North Korean rockets to blast Russian positions

LOL

It is good that you find it funny. Maybe someone you know was on the receiving end of that. Still funny?

I find it funny because the allegations are against Russia, and the evidence points directly to Ukraine. However, everything is as usual.

Meanwhile, Ukraine's Counteroffensive Needs a Plan B

America’s “Plan A” in Ukraine is on life support.

They say that Ukraine needs to finish with a counteroffensive, go on the defensive and pray that Russia will not have the strength to attack on its own. A good plan, as reliable as a Swiss watch.

[Branko]

<wall of text...>

Inflation is linked to interest rates. Ruzzia keeps inflation low by having nearly double interest rates. Now, stuff more graphs there, but try to understand the basics of economy first.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act? A simple yes or no will suffice. I offer you a similar direct answer to any (non personal) similar question in exchange.

RE scalations, most of your assertions are false. ATACAMS have more range, more payload and are more difficult to intercept. The stormshadows are very obviously hitting high value targets, and I mean nearly every day,... You should try to read something that is not the official propaganda. The F-35 with some of the longer range rockets do not even need to get near to the front...

RE grain production in the US... well, your graph basically proves my point. US is a grain exporter and will benefit from higher prices. It is irrelevant if Ruzzia exports more or less, the price is the price. Look, seriously, just read ANY book on economy. You need them all.

Now, it seems that you are trying to deny any and all the capabilities built during decades by US and other... it just does not fly (note the pun), those weapons are effective like hell. The US has the potential to support Ukraine up by a factor of 10. They just do not want to - for now. Putin is nearly out of escalations other than nuclear, which he would loose (not that anyone wins in that case).

Latest thing, he is now promoting conflicts in Niger and Congo. But worry not, those will be dealt with in due time, first things first.

Anyway, while you theorise, reality is making a check on all that. Ukraine is moving at a faster pace and liberating some interesting bits of territory in the Zapo front. A trust towards Tohmak has become veeeeery posible. There are also some unconfirmed data on the lack of effectiveness of the "Surovikin line" of defence - there are not enough troops to actually defend it.

Oh, BTW, you are still thinking that somehow Europe has heating problems? Have you not read anything in the last year? Europe simply buys the gas from US an Norway, the countries affected are those that cannot pay the price.

You can try all you want, Darude posts are 10X more eloquent

Meanwhile:

https://stratpol.com/une-fois-la-guerre-terminee-lukraine-dans-ses-frontieres-actuelles-cessera-dexister/

[DaRude]

<wall of text...>

Inflation is linked to interest rates. Ruzzia keeps inflation low by having nearly double interest rates. Now, stuff more graphs there, but try to understand the basics of economy first.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act? A simple yes or no will suffice. I offer you a similar direct answer to any (non personal) similar question in exchange.

RE scalations, most of your assertions are false. ATACAMS have more range, more payload and are more difficult to intercept. The stormshadows are very obviously hitting high value targets, and I mean nearly every day,... You should try to read something that is not the official propaganda. The F-35 with some of the longer range rockets do not even need to get near to the front...

RE grain production in the US... well, your graph basically proves my point. US is a grain exporter and will benefit from higher prices. It is irrelevant if Ruzzia exports more or less, the price is the price. Look, seriously, just read ANY book on economy. You need them all.

Now, it seems that you are trying to deny any and all the capabilities built during decades by US and other... it just does not fly (note the pun), those weapons are effective like hell. The US has the potential to support Ukraine up by a factor of 10. They just do not want to - for now. Putin is nearly out of escalations other than nuclear, which he would loose (not that anyone wins in that case).

Latest thing, he is now promoting conflicts in Niger and Congo. But worry not, those will be dealt with in due time, first things first.

Anyway, while you theorise, reality is making a check on all that. Ukraine is moving at a faster pace and liberating some interesting bits of territory in the Zapo front. A trust towards Tohmak has become veeeeery posible. There are also some unconfirmed data on the lack of effectiveness of the "Surovikin line" of defence - there are not enough troops to actually defend it.

Oh, BTW, you are still thinking that somehow Europe has heating problems? Have you not read anything in the last year? Europe simply buys the gas from US an Norway, the countries affected are those that cannot pay the price.

I lost your point, so interest rate in US is now 5,5% and in Russia 3% higher at 8,5% (RUB) (was 20% at one point). What's your point, that Russian economy will collapse any second now?  China has become an "even more critical" economic partner for Russia, providing it with military equipment and helping the regime evade sanctions tied to the invasion of Ukraine, U.S. intelligence officials said in a report published Thursday. Totally unexpected, right? And look at Turkey, they're at 17,5% (TRY) going on few years at these high rates and they're not even at war.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act?
This feels like a friend/foe, are you with/against us groupthink litmus test i.e. completely useless and devoid of reasoning. But nevertheless since you've asked nicely i'll comply. For whom Ukraine? NO.
Long answer: to objectify this, i'd frame this as country A attacking commodity for export in country B with no loss of life. Technically, strictly by definition, I guess that should be considered terrorism, but an attack on power/heating/water infrastructure is not (because that is always claimed to have military use). That's counterproductive and takes away from the real acts of terrorism. To me, terrorism is intentional, direct, or directly linked, loss or serious injury to civilian population without military justification. e.g. bomb in a subway, airliner targeted into a building, destroying food to cause hunger... But admittedly it's a spectrum, if anything I'd argue that inverse should be true, taking out a power grid in a city is more damaging to civilians than attacking some export storage.
...

So my question for you is at what point soldiers' lives should be considered and this carnage should stop being encouraged? Or are you in the "till the last Ukrainian until Crimea" camp?

Obviously the question is not if is terrorism from Ukraine, but from the RF. It is obvious that you are judging with a double scale (and assuming that there is no loss of life when attacking a silo... a long shot).  It seem that the attack on the Ministry of defence is not terrorism at all by your (veeery peculiar definition).

Anyway, the Ruzzians are well past the border of terrorism since the beginning of the war, but you are going to deny and throw dirt on any proof, so I will just let the official institutions do their research  and then let you deny.

You have change your view on the effectiveness of weapons... not useless after all... good, good, ... now you just to get familiarised with the differences between and we then can talk again. A million possible escalations are possible from the Ukrainian side, simply because the aid is very limited in all aspects. Just read the Ukrainian requests to US and see how they are fine with using more and better weapons that do exist.

To your question, which I have answered in many posts - the fight has to continue until a result that guarantees a future stable peace is reached. It is no use to surrender "to save lives" if the conditions for the next invasion are setup. As of now, if Putin gets his way to a significant degree, there will be another war soon and then another...

But hey, I also have a peace plan, just like you! Until when should the RF army hold the occupied territories? Just leave and save all those lives you care so much about.

Ministry of Defense of opposing country is not a military target in your book?


US DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE LAW OF WAR MANUAL https://dod.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/DoD%20Law%20of%20War%20Manual%20-%20June%202015%20Updated%20Dec%202016.pdf
Read all of Chapter "V – The Conduct of Hostilities" has enough loopholes and exceptions to fly a fleet of aircraft through

About attacking merchant ships and prohibiting neutral vessels from entering the area

13.5.1.1 Captured Enemy Merchant Vessels – Notes on Terminology. A captured neutral or enemy merchant vessel is called a prize.
...
13.5.1.3 Destruction of Captured Enemy Merchant Vessels. When military circumstances preclude sending or taking in such vessel or aircraft for adjudication as an enemy prize, it may be destroyed after all possible measures are taken to provide for the safety of passengers and crew. 86 Documents and papers relating to the prize should be safeguarded and, if practicable, the personal effects of passengers should be saved. Every case of destruction of a captured enemy prize should be reported promptly to higher command. The destruction of neutral prizes involves similar procedures, but a more serious responsibility.
13.5.2 Attack of Enemy Merchant Vessels. Enemy merchant vessels may be made the object of attack, outside neutral territory, if they constitute a military objective. In particular, enemy merchant vessels may be attacked and destroyed by warships, either with or without prior warning, in any of the following circumstances:
• persistently refusing to stop upon being duly summoned to do so;
...
13.8.1 Belligerent Right to Establish Special Restrictions in the Immediate Area of Naval Operations. Within the immediate area or vicinity of naval operations, to ensure proper battle space management and self-defense objectives, a belligerent State may establish special restrictions upon the activities of neutral vessels and aircraft, and may prohibit altogether such vessels and aircraft from entering the area.

On attacking dams

5.13 ATTACKS ON FACILITIES , WORKS , OR INSTALLATIONS CONTAINING DANGEROUS FORCES
Certain facilities containing dangerous forces, such as dams, nuclear power plants, or facilities producing weapons of mass destruction, may constitute military objectives. There may be a number of reasons for their attack, such as denial of electric power to military sources, use of a dangerous facility (e.g., by causing release from a dam) to damage or destroy other military objectives, or to pre-empt enemy release of the dangerous forces to hamper the movement or advance of U.S. or allied forces. Attack of facilities, works, or installations containing dangerous forces, such as dams, nuclear power plants, or facilities producing weapons of mass destruction, is permissible so long as it is conducted in accordance with other applicable rules, including the rules of discrimination and proportionality.

According to US pretty much everything is a fair target. That's the problem with setting a precedent, pretty much all that RF is doing has already been done in some form by US. Although i don't believe RF has attacked a marked and protected medical facility for half an hour killing 42 and then 11 days later rolled in that hospital with tanks, yet.

You seem to have concluded that 522 days into the conflict US/NATO are intentionally holding back the delivery of weapons preventing UA from achieving their victory, can you expand on why you believe that is done? But you still seem to hold hope that this will change at some future point in time, so much so that UA will be able to take over Crimea. Following that logic, can you opine what conclusion could be formed if those changes never materialize and the conflict is frozen roughly along the current lines?

But hey, I also have a peace plan, just like you! Until when should the RF army hold the occupied territories? Just leave and save all those lives you care so much about.
If 522 days into the conflict, after RF has declared general mobilization, and the opponent did not, who also happens to outnumber RF population by 100MM, and i have doubts about intentions/sincerity of the main allies that keep RF afloat, i'd say it'd be time to fold and save the troops.

Also could you opine what probability you allocate to Biden winning US presidential elections in 2024? And how should EU leaders hedge the risk of that not happening? Regardless of the outcome in a year, the election show is about to kick off. Could this be the reason for timing restrictions on UA? And historically speaking how much US prioritized outside conflicts over internal?

Trump calls for halt in military support for Ukraine

Former president Donald Trump wants Congress to withhold military aid for Ukraine until the Biden administration cooperates with congressional investigations into the business dealings of Biden's son, Hunter. Trump, speaking at a rally Saturday in Erie, Pennsylvania, said no additional weapon shipments should be authorized until the FBI, Justice Department and Internal Revenue Service provide "every scrap of evidence" they have of possible misbehavior by Biden family members. Trump threatened Republican lawmakers who didn’t join the effort with primary challenges...
“Congress should refuse to authorize a single additional shipment of our depleted weapons stockpiles … to Ukraine until the FBI, DOJ and IRS hand over every scrap of evidence they have on the Biden crime family’s corrupt business dealings,” Trump said at the rally.

[paxmao]

<wall of text...>

Inflation is linked to interest rates. Ruzzia keeps inflation low by having nearly double interest rates. Now, stuff more graphs there, but try to understand the basics of economy first.

Let's get this clear: do you consider the attack on grain storages in Ukraine a terrorist act? A simple yes or no will suffice. I offer you a similar direct answer to any (non personal) similar question in exchange.

RE scalations, most of your assertions are false. ATACAMS have more range, more payload and are more difficult to intercept. The stormshadows are very obviously hitting high value targets, and I mean nearly every day,... You should try to read something that is not the official propaganda. The F-35 with some of the longer range rockets do not even need to get near to the front...

RE grain production in the US... well, your graph basically proves my point. US is a grain exporter and will benefit from higher prices. It is irrelevant if Ruzzia exports more or less, the price is the price. Look, seriously, just read ANY book on economy. You need them all.

Now, it seems that you are trying to deny any and all the capabilities built during decades by US and other... it just does not fly (note the pun), those weapons are effective like hell. The US has the potential to support Ukraine up by a factor of 10. They just do not want to - for now. Putin is nearly out of escalations other than nuclear, which he would loose (not that anyone wins in that case).

Latest thing, he is now promoting conflicts in Niger and Congo. But worry not, those will be dealt with in due time, first things first.

Anyway, while you theorise, reality is making a check on all that. Ukraine is moving at a faster pace and liberating some interesting bits of territory in the Zapo front. A trust towards Tohmak has become veeeeery posible. There are also some unconfirmed data on the lack of effectiveness of the "Surovikin line" of defence - there are not enough troops to actually defend it.

Oh, BTW, you are still thinking that somehow Europe has heating problems? Have you not read anything in the last year? Europe simply buys the gas from US an Norway, the countries affected are those that cannot pay the price.

You can try all you want, Darude posts are 10X more eloquent

Meanwhile:

https://stratpol.com/une-fois-la-guerre-terminee-lukraine-dans-ses-frontieres-actuelles-cessera-dexister/

Get a room. You just love your eco-chambers.

Interesting Branko... you are using a far right, kind of Neo-Nazi guy opinion... that's lovely.

This French you mention is just expression opinions, not providing any particular evidence. Europe is not ready, Ruzzia superpowerful... is not even original. He is most likely looking for the applause of the extreme right of Jean-Mari Le Pen. They might eventually preside France and this guys is probably out of other career options (an ex-general without any particular distinction , particularly if he keeps on throwing xenophobic comments here and there.

[Branko]

Interesting Branko... you are using a far right, kind of Neo-Nazi guy opinion... that's lovely.

Yes indeed, even former supporter of Azov sees things as they are...but not you. Is this your job maybe?

[BADecker]

More and more people are showing us what is really going on in the world regarding Ukraine. The truth is getting out into the open.


Ex-CIA: US Pentagon PANICS Over NEW Ukraine Leak - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryA60R6aYDY

[swogerino]

Meanwhile, the second phase of the Ukrainian counter-offensive, announced yesterday, began with a crushing defeat on the Zaporizhia front near Rabotino. Ukraine threw its strategic reserves into organizing a breakthrough, and dozens of armored vehicles remained on fire on the battlefield.

How it is going with North Korea and Africa poor countries,the only nations which are still doing business with Russia,I hope well as even some delegations from Africa did not attend the Russia-Africa summit,from 43 just 17 delegations and they even call on Putin to revive the grain deal as soon as possible.

No matter how long it takes it has started and it will continue for as long as the zones are liberated meanwhile how are my fellow Moscow people enjoying the drones,yet there has not been casualties but very soon there will be and at a huge scale,just wait,that is what will make Russia people think that this war has also got to do with us and will remove their opinion so far that this war does not belong to us.

[Branko]

Meanwhile, the second phase of the Ukrainian counter-offensive, announced yesterday, began with a crushing defeat on the Zaporizhia front near Rabotino. Ukraine threw its strategic reserves into organizing a breakthrough, and dozens of armored vehicles remained on fire on the battlefield.

How it is going with North Korea and Africa poor countries,the only nations which are still doing business with Russia,I hope well as even some delegations from Africa did not attend the Russia-Africa summit,from 43 just 17 delegations and they even call on Putin to revive the grain deal as soon as possible.

No matter how long it takes it has started and it will continue for as long as the zones are liberated meanwhile how are my fellow Moscow people enjoying the drones,yet there has not been casualties but very soon there will be and at a huge scale,just wait,that is what will make Russia people think that this war has also got to do with us and will remove their opinion so far that this war does not belong to us.

Thank you, almost forgot this gem from the past

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg