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Author Topic: BitMarket.Eu has closed down  (Read 182715 times)
mralbi
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February 05, 2013, 09:35:02 AM
 #701

I think your willingness to "clean up" and help to do the best to get out of the situation contributed a lot and is highly appreciated and honored. When the remaining results stay like this the bitcoin community might get a big chance to start a new platform "owned" by many stakeholders that are highly interested in the success of the new project.

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mralbi
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February 05, 2013, 10:24:19 AM
 #702

HOW it is possible to repay debts is indeed the most tricky question. (Newly) invested money is one part to repay frozen coins, the rest needs to come of course from future profits, for which i proposed the 50/50 model to share between the investors to get their investment back (new money and introduced frozen coins as shares) and the other half goes to the non-invested frozen coins in addition to the initial payout until 100% of the debts are paid back.

Bitmarket.eu service would in principle stay as it is, but extended by new P2P services where user can trade also other things as bitcoins. Plus there will (hopefully) some sponsor links (external shops) that pay part of their turnover to bitmarket when using the bitmarket referral link and there would also be user specific advertismenet space to be sold.

I mean no one would promise any quick profits over night and there would also be a lot of development work to be done at first, but i think it is the best way out of the current situation and i really hope it will work, since i also have "some" frozen coins which i would like to see back one day

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February 05, 2013, 02:06:26 PM
 #703

I thought the bitmarket model was the safest there was out there and I used it happily.
18K Bitcoins debt is Huge and warrants a miracle.
We learn and learn and learn.
All my compassion for you young man and those who lost again with bitcoins.
And may bitcoins flow again in our lives, and we keep these coins moving.

Time for a miracle and to read and apply A Course In Miracles.



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February 05, 2013, 03:55:16 PM
 #704

hello guys, I have lost a lot of btc, and I do not know how to respond to the questionnaire, what is the best way to recover btc ?
mralbi
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February 05, 2013, 07:29:27 PM
 #705

well, you have read the alternatives i assume ;-) You can chose between pest and cholera that means:

A) Either you do not get your coins back or
B) you do not get your coins back, but you have a chance to get something back


actually i would say the "cooperate" is the best option, where you can expect an initial payout plus payback of the rest over time eventually at least. Investor is actually a bit more risky, since you do not get any initial payout, but in the long term it might be better, lets say in 25 years when debts are paid back and you would get a share of net profits ;-)

In case you need quick cash, i think the 30% option is better than nothing and in case you have enough money for a lawyer you can try the "do not cooperate" option.

In case you want to get some coins, do NOT chose "donate" ;-)

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February 05, 2013, 09:35:29 PM
 #706

well, you have read the alternatives i assume ;-) You can chose between pest and cholera that means:

A) Either you do not get your coins back or
B) you do not get your coins back, but you have a chance to get something back


actually i would say the "cooperate" is the best option, where you can expect an initial payout plus payback of the rest over time eventually at least. Investor is actually a bit more risky, since you do not get any initial payout, but in the long term it might be better, lets say in 25 years when debts are paid back and you would get a share of net profits ;-)

In case you need quick cash, i think the 30% option is better than nothing and in case you have enough money for a lawyer you can try the "do not cooperate" option.

In case you want to get some coins, do NOT chose "donate" ;-)

hi mate, choosing cooperate, how much it is the initial payment? 50%?
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February 05, 2013, 11:41:32 PM
 #707

You haters out there are so pessimistic. Here are all those guys trying to get together and make something work, and all you have to say is this verbal diarrhoea..

Have someone f***ed up with your money? YES! Will you ever see ALL of your BTCs again? Probably not. BUT (BUT!!!!!!!!!) they are trying to fix the problem, get something back to you-if not all in the long term, brainstorming best ways, finding investors, developing the site, and so on..

But I know what you'll say: THOSE guys robbed all of us!!!!!!

You know what? They (or he) did.. he screwed up, and he should go to jail for that. Will this help you in any way possible? NO!. But he has balls to come here, admit it, and is working his ass off to fix his mistake. He could have simply disappeared like the guys from previous websites I've been reading on this blog.. but he didn't. He (and now, they) are trying to get things moving and return all the funds they can.

THEY HAVE GIVEN YOU OPTIONS! key word: OPTIONS!!!!! If you take this guy to court, do you think you, or anyone else would get even a PENNY back? This guy is not Kim Dot Com with millions stashed away! And please, he's in Eastern Europe! nouf said!

How about we all start acting like adults, help this man (not by giving him money, of course, but by supporting him and his business) so this new business venture can make some money and pay whatever they can back? When they start getting marketing revenue I'm sure their bottom line will start increasing, and more payments would be done.

I know the amount owed is astronomical, specially with BTCs at current prices, but these guys are trying. So how about we jump on board, and promote his business, instead of killing it and loosing all the BTCs we could have gotten back. Probably not a lot of people that read this regularly would go back (although some did, as I've read), but there are MILLIONS of people getting introduced to bitcoins every day, just as I was a few months back.

Think it this way: the corner shop screwed up by (i don't know) selling bad stuff. The guy came clean and he owes you money. Wouldn't you want his business to do well so you could get your money back? As they said on ESPN: COM'ON MAN!!!!!!

I'm tired of reading this non-sense. WE (me included, as I have BTC34.1 frozen) should support this, by whatever option works best for you, so this business can hopefully grow and we can all get over this mess. FOR THE SAKE OF BITCOIN!

Now go and eat a taco! you must be hungry!


first edit: I chose to get the 30%, and they can keep the rest. Help them out. My option is to get a little back.. I'm happy with that.
mralbi
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February 06, 2013, 12:55:23 AM
 #708

tacoexperience, good post, all is true....

and hey, 50% initial payout? What are you dreaming of ;-) why should anyone take the 30% option then ;-) Estimate something like 6%


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February 06, 2013, 03:26:41 AM
 #709

Hey mralbi yeah I got a little carried away.. but I've been reading this for months now.. and I'm tired of the negativity, and the constant trashing of it. All the negative sh*t that the webmaster should have taken, I'm sure he did, and it's enough. People that have all these negative feelings towards him, and they have reason to be, because they were robbed, just like me, had almost 2 months to air it out. Continuing to trash him and what the new guys are trying to do has absolutely NO gain whatsoever. All they are doing is making sure that his business will fail, and we won't get anything at all..

So that's where I am now.. I'm pissed off at all those that keep trashing and trashing and trashing them. Someone wants to keep at it, them keep it private.. we probably have already heard your opinion before.

The ONLY way anything good can come out of this is with support. Quite frankly I just can't believe that he hasn't told all the critics/haters to flick one and then disappear..

Hopefully something positive comes out of this.
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February 06, 2013, 07:35:53 AM
 #710

If you take this guy to court, do you think you, or anyone else would get even a PENNY back?
Of course. There is a well established bankruptcy procedure that has to be followed. Bitmarket.eu must be put on for an auction and proceeds shared among creditors. If this service has any value then creditors will get something back.

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mralbi
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February 06, 2013, 08:01:11 AM
 #711

Yeah, the so called "well established bankrupcy procedure" is always possible. For that everyone is free to click the option "i do not want to cooperate". It is well established in the sense that lawyers are the only winners in the end...I have seen this in practice several times, maybe in poland its different than in Germany, but i assume its about the same.

At least i would not prefer this option, it would take quite some time to liquidate, a good bunch will go to lawyers and the liquidator. I was also considering this option for my frozen coins, since it is the "official standard procedure", but out of my frozen 620 coins I would get back maybe 50 after one year, the current estimate is maybe 6% and the admin would not be able to do any work on that site and unless he wins the lottery it is not likely that in the next years there would be any payout.

I (personally) am also not willing to bid for an auction for the website in case of liqudation, so at least my planned investment of 10000 euros into the site would be gone, one would need the admins support to learn how the site works and so on and by just buying the site in an auction this would not be possible. Otherwise you can start from scratch anyway. But maybe i am wrong, there are plenty of investors just waiting to take over the site and pay a lot of money for it....


In any case, tacoexperience said everything about "negativity", in this case here you can basically chose between

A) I dont get my money back
B) I dont get my money back, but i have a chance.

So, at least for me, i take the B option



crazy573
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February 06, 2013, 10:40:29 AM
 #712

So far we only have a plan which is to reopen the site under new ownership, share 50%/50% profits between all new investors according to their share to recover somehow the investment sum and the other half goes to the "frozen coins".

Investor is actually a bit more risky, since you do not get any initial payout, but in the long term it might be better, lets say in 25 years when debts are paid back and you would get a share of net profits ;-)

Now I'm confused  Huh
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February 06, 2013, 10:45:58 AM
 #713

Yeah, the so called "well established bankrupcy procedure" is always possible.
There is a reason why bankruptcy procedures are well established and proven practice.

I was also considering this option for my frozen coins, since it is the "official standard procedure", but out of my frozen 620 coins I would get back maybe 50 after one year
You don't have "frozen" coins for there are no coins at all. In this case "frozen" is just an oxymoron for missing! You can get some coins only if bitmarket.eu makes profit in the future.

one would need the admins support to learn how the site works
So, you are ready to live with the constant extortion of shutting up this website and losing your "frozen" coins?

I (personally) am also not willing to bid for an auction for the website in case of liqudation
The liquidation in a bankruptcy procedure doesn't mean that this website will be liquidated. Liquidation means that creditors will get best possible price for the service and that current owner will be held responsible including criminal charges! Only then you can be confident that current owner made their best efforts to compensate creditors!

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mralbi
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February 06, 2013, 11:33:07 AM
 #714

Yeah, the so called "well established bankrupcy procedure" is always possible.

There is a reason why bankruptcy procedures are well established and proven practice.

I have a different opinion on this. If it is a case where the reason for bankruptcy is illiquidity while there are a lot of (valuable)assests behind that could be monetarized it might make sense. In this case you have basically the website plus some minimal private savings which would be eaten up by the costs of the liquidation procedure. I also dont think that selling the website would bring so much. It is just another buerocratic process where in the end no one would get anything except the lawyers.

I was also considering this option for my frozen coins, since it is the "official standard procedure", but out of my frozen 620 coins I would get back maybe 50 after one year

You don't have "frozen" coins for there are no coins at all. In this case "frozen" is just an oxymoron for missing! You can get some coins only if bitmarket.eu makes profit in the future.

I agree, the term does not matter, the coins are simply not there anymore.

one would need the admins support to learn how the site works

So, you are ready to live with the constant extortion of shutting up this website and losing your "frozen" coins?
 

No, there should be a clear way out with a restoration plan (reopening the website, sharing profits between users etc etc.) which cannot be changed anymore once everyone participating "formally" agreed on it.

I (personally) am also not willing to bid for an auction for the website in case of liqudation

The liquidation in a bankruptcy procedure doesn't mean that this website will be liquidated. Liquidation means that creditors will get best possible price for the service and that current owner will be held responsible including criminal charges! Only then you can be confident that current owner made their best efforts to compensate creditors!

The liquidation in fact would mean that the website closes entirely and legally it is part of the liquidation mass as it might have some value. And in this case the current owner would do a shit in doing any extra effort to pay back additional user funds beyond what is left over after liquidation.

becoin
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February 06, 2013, 12:06:05 PM
 #715

The liquidation in fact would mean that the website closes entirely and legally it is part of the liquidation mass as it might have some value.
No! Definitely not!

Liquidation means that the Liquidator will decided if this site will continue to do business as usual or will stop. If this site is making money then it will continue to operate as usual. If this site is losing money while conducting their business, then it will be stopped.

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mentore
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February 06, 2013, 12:06:27 PM
 #716

I am willing to accept the current restoration plan


hi guys, please, explain what this option means ?

if I choose this option, exactly what happens?


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February 06, 2013, 12:42:42 PM
 #717

Liquidation means that the Liquidator will decided if this site will continue to do business as usual or will stop. If this site is making money then it will continue to operate as usual. If this site is losing money while conducting their business, then it will be stopped.

I don't think so. Liquidator can decide whatever he wants, but he cannot force the current owner to keep the site running. Most likely in case of liquidation the owner is going to stop operating it and business will stop.
mralbi
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February 06, 2013, 12:55:35 PM
 #718

This option means the following:

The site is reopened under new ownership, independent from the old site. The invested (additional) money would go directly into the initial payout of frozen coins. Furhter payouts would be done on a monthly basis from 50% of the profits of the new site. The problem is of course, that the question "what happens exactly" cannot be answered fully right now, as we still need to see (with the questionnaire) who is willing to invest and also it needs to be clarified how much is the investment sum. Also from development point of view it needs to be discussed what can actually be done in which timeframe.

Starting from there new functions for example a peer2peer market is planned to be developed beyond the standard bitcoin buying/selling to make the site actually profitable (so far it hardly makes any profit). More details would only follow after this pre-screening questionnaire when we know exactly how much is the investment sum plus how big is the amount of cooperation.

In case the cooperation rate is too low the new site project would not be started and the "official" liquidation is inevitable which in fact means the closure of the site.

becoin, it is not (only) the decision of the liquidator if the site continues, but also up to the admin ;-) I agree that liquidation is the "official" way, but i am quite sure it will hardly bring you back frozen coins, maybe 6% according to the figures i have seen.

So in that sense deeplink is right, no liquidator can force the admin to develop new stuff or keep the site running on his own time while at the same time he liquidates all his plenty private assets like 70 inch Plamsa TV, his ferrari, rolexes and all his real estate ;-) *irony off

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February 06, 2013, 03:49:45 PM
 #719

becoin: If we went "official" and follow the bankrupcy/liquidation procedure, users would hardly get a bitcent right now. This is because BitMarket has virtually no "own" assets at the moment. Everything that is stored on site belongs to users who can withdraw them at any moment. And because it would scare the investors off, there would not be any other additional funds for the repayment. On the top of that, I personally don't have much assets as well - I rent the place I live and selling my car would probably get you less than 100 BTC.

The only thing that would be achieved this way is me prosecuted, probably, with no means of developing Bitmarket to earn back the missing funds. Which doesn't do any good for anyone involved - it's a lose-lose situation.
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February 06, 2013, 04:13:39 PM
 #720

the point is... the 100 BTC or let it be 1000  would simply go to the liquidator
also, please do not forget M4v3Rs will to clean up the situation should be considered really more valuable than you would get from going through any formal liquidation processes...


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