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Author Topic: BitMarket.Eu has closed down  (Read 182435 times)
tacoexperience
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February 19, 2013, 09:36:08 PM
 #821

Can someone explain this in somewhat plain eng"r"ish? lol thanks guys Smiley
Sorry, some typos as I see. But I do not really understand your question. I simply asked M4v3r to give me control over my accounts bitcoin address - the one coins are sent to for showing up on the corresponding bitmarket.eu account .  For this I need the private key corresponding to the public key (aka bitcoin-address) - this gives control over the address, the coins in account are not still stored at this address necessarily (as you could see in the blockchain regarding your own addresses) and can be moved beforehand by him.  The wrap is just a PGP signature. If you need to know about bitcoins cryptography or pgp you can use the enormous information on the web. If you have further questions, you can ask me directly via PM for not polluting this thread. thx.


Now it makes perfect sense. Thanks DoubleV Smiley
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Apollo21
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February 20, 2013, 07:55:50 PM
 #822

Indeed stop the wichhunt, i also got bitcoins frozen but i'm starting to feel sorry for this guy...
Posting pictures of his cats and his? car Undecided
Most of you guys aren't going to do shit because most of the btc's that go around is for doing illegal stuff like buying drugs on SR... Shocked
But that's just like, my opinion
xyz
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February 20, 2013, 08:22:25 PM
 #823

Indeed stop the wichhunt, i also got bitcoins frozen but i'm starting to feel sorry for this guy...
Posting pictures of his cats and his? car Undecided
Most of you guys aren't going to do shit because most of the btc's that go around is for doing illegal stuff like buying drugs on SR... Shocked
But that's just like, my opinion


I agree we should not do witch hunting... But I don't agree that we all have bitcoins because of drugs and so on!!!
I am interested in the big chance to have money what is not in the hands of staats and banks!!!
Bitmarket was a big chance forr everybody to buy the first bitcoins and I hope very much that this will be in some time again so!

I thought very often what is the use for the owner from this site to do this all without any fee! In German we have a word: "Was nichts kostet, kann nichts wert sein" - translated something like: "for what you have nothing to pay it cannot have any worth!"

Now I understand that the owner made his profit to "work" with the bitcoins! It is not acceptable - but understandable!!!!

The site should work again!!! But I am missing statements from the owner! He should tell us every day what's going on! We all here are in doubts....
tacoexperience
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February 20, 2013, 10:11:33 PM
 #824

Indeed stop the wichhunt, i also got bitcoins frozen but i'm starting to feel sorry for this guy...
Posting pictures of his cats and his? car Undecided
Most of you guys aren't going to do shit because most of the btc's that go around is for doing illegal stuff like buying drugs on SR... Shocked
But that's just like, my opinion


I agree we should not do witch hunting... But I don't agree that we all have bitcoins because of drugs and so on!!!
I am interested in the big chance to have money what is not in the hands of staats and banks!!!
Bitmarket was a big chance forr everybody to buy the first bitcoins and I hope very much that this will be in some time again so!

I thought very often what is the use for the owner from this site to do this all without any fee! In German we have a word: "Was nichts kostet, kann nichts wert sein" - translated something like: "for what you have nothing to pay it cannot have any worth!"

Now I understand that the owner made his profit to "work" with the bitcoins! It is not acceptable - but understandable!!!!

The site should work again!!! But I am missing statements from the owner! He should tell us every day what's going on! We all here are in doubts....


I agree.. Bitcoin is something very interesting, specially if you're interested in Finance and Economics. Yes, you can use it for illegal purposes, but so can any other currency. What one does with it's money it's their own problem, not the courts or anyone else's..

And I'm sorry, but it was pretty stupid for him to run the site at a "donate" here type of funding. Perhaps one should do that if the site is new and trying to break into the market. He was already stablished, so fee should be compulsory. What is 0.5% of your transaction to you? Hardly nothing, right? But for his business.. it his bottom line.
GsR
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February 20, 2013, 10:52:11 PM
 #825

Indeed stop the wichhunt, i also got bitcoins frozen but i'm starting to feel sorry for this guy...
Posting pictures of his cats and his? car Undecided
Most of you guys aren't going to do shit because most of the btc's that go around is for doing illegal stuff like buying drugs on SR... Shocked
But that's just like, my opinion


I agree we should not do witch hunting... But I don't agree that we all have bitcoins because of drugs and so on!!!
I am interested in the big chance to have money what is not in the hands of staats and banks!!!
Bitmarket was a big chance forr everybody to buy the first bitcoins and I hope very much that this will be in some time again so!

I thought very often what is the use for the owner from this site to do this all without any fee! In German we have a word: "Was nichts kostet, kann nichts wert sein" - translated something like: "for what you have nothing to pay it cannot have any worth!"

Now I understand that the owner made his profit to "work" with the bitcoins! It is not acceptable - but understandable!!!!

The site should work again!!! But I am missing statements from the owner! He should tell us every day what's going on! We all here are in doubts....


I agree.. Bitcoin is something very interesting, specially if you're interested in Finance and Economics. Yes, you can use it for illegal purposes, but so can any other currency. What one does with it's money it's their own problem, not the courts or anyone else's..

And I'm sorry, but it was pretty stupid for him to run the site at a "donate" here type of funding. Perhaps one should do that if the site is new and trying to break into the market. He was already stablished, so fee should be compulsory. What is 0.5% of your transaction to you? Hardly nothing, right? But for his business.. it his bottom line.


I think that a transaction fee of 0.5% from both side (the seller and the buyer) is accettable for a service like bitmarket.eu

Bitmarket.eu-victim0815
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February 21, 2013, 10:19:41 AM
 #826

Indeed stop the wichhunt, i also got bitcoins frozen but i'm starting to feel sorry for this guy...
This has nothing to do with "witch hunting". I feel sorry for him too but I also want him to repay the coins that he stole. I do not share your optimism: IMO bitmarket.eu lost all its credibility and trust and will never return to where it was before. So I do not believe in restoration plans or 7-year plans Roll Eyes Especially after the latest events. The only reasonable thing to do is press legal charges.

Posting pictures of his cats and his? car Undecided
I agree.

Most of you guys aren't going to do shit because most of the btc's that go around is for doing illegal stuff like buying drugs on SR... Shocked
Nonsense.

I thought very often what is the use for the owner from this site to do this all without any fee! In German we have a word: "Was nichts kostet, kann nichts wert sein" - translated something like: "for what you have nothing to pay it cannot have any worth!"
Hindsight is easier than foresight.
If you're not paying for something, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold.

Unfortunately proverbs do not get M4v3r to pay back our stolen money.

Now I understand that the owner made his profit to "work" with the bitcoins! It is not acceptable - but understandable!!!!
Not at all. He probably would have gambled on bitcoinica even if the 0.5% fee had already been in place.
mralbi
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February 21, 2013, 01:45:45 PM
 #827

Well, since the results from the questionnaire seem quite promising, i think we should go on with some rescue plan and reopen the site with highest security standards and new concepts.

We would/should come back with some "official" information about how to proceed quite soon.


M4v3R
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February 21, 2013, 02:25:15 PM
 #828

Exactly as mralbi said, the priority right now is to make sure the server on which the site's hosted is secure. For this I also need to make sure my computer is secure, as this was the previous attack vector. The work on the server itself is mostly done now, and now I'm double checking that no one can steal my credentials or even if he does, that he can't access the server from a untrusted location.

Not at all. He probably would have gambled on bitcoinica even if the 0.5% fee had already been in place.

Saying "what would happen if..." always leads to nothing. But if Bitmarket were earning money, then it would end up being worked on full time not only by me, but also by Mahkul (the co-founder). That would eliminate the risk of moving the offline coins where they not should be, because they would be monitored by more than one person.

I'm not trying to excuse myself here, just making a point.
Chris Weber
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February 21, 2013, 03:12:40 PM
 #829

 @mralbi: let us know when there are concrete concepts regarding the system for discussion - blockchain.info, casascius and others have already done massive work in that direction for theory and the frontend

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February 21, 2013, 09:56:09 PM
 #830

0.5 % on both sides is unacceptable. The way it has been going lately, I will most likely never use the site again. Good bye.

mralbi
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February 22, 2013, 12:02:58 AM
 #831

i will sit down and draft the follow up emails this weekend so that they can be sent out next week.
Also, we have now an "Investors meeting" face 2 face, so discuss further details.


My personal opinion is, that we should not try to earn back the money with fees. If the fees are too high people would simply use MtGox or other sites. We only have a chance when we can develop something new and unique and for that we will have a face 2 face meeting quite soon

malevolent
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February 22, 2013, 12:29:33 AM
 #832

I have a good piece of advice for you, it has only occurred to me very recently (this is 100% serious).

In EU we have funds and aids (basically free money) from EU organisations such as the European Regional Development Fund that help in setting up and financing investments of companies, many of them online ones. It takes some time to prepare all the documents, draft business plans, hire people who can help making a convincing offer but many people and companies were successfull in imploring and defrauding hundreds of thousands of Euros (sometimes millions).

Example: http://swiatkotow.pl/ - these guys got over 150 000 €

more examples
http://www.web.gov.pl/bazy-wiedzy/4_32_baza-e-uslug.html
mralbi
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February 22, 2013, 07:19:58 AM
 #833

Well thanks for the hint.

"Accidentially" I work for an EU institution and you can totally forget about it, it just a massive buerocracy and you need to waste one year for preparing paperwork.

After that the confirmation process is very intransparent and slow and usually they are part of the fake-money system, that means they are only giving out loans (not stipends).

The main problem is also, that you cannot request funds for "exiting" projects or projects that already started.

I also checked the german KfW (Kreditanstalt fuer Wiederaufbau) and their programs are only loans that need to be paid out via a private bank. This is all crap.


Maybe you have a better link where you can actually get "Stipends" for new projects (but no loans)

manfred
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February 22, 2013, 09:47:22 AM
 #834

Quote
My personal opinion is, that we should not try to earn back the money with fees. If the fees are too high people would simply use MtGox or other sites.
Fully agree, it must stay competitive

Quote
We only have a chance when we can develop something new and unique
yes move the bitcoin environment out of shonky backyard operators and create the only exchange u can trust. maybe three level security, like hot wallet, cold storage, and  "deep" cold storage where it would need, say 5 people to cross-sign to access  (if technical possible).

New features must be the core of a revived side as well as ongoing development, unlike before, a stagnant side hoping someone signs up.
malevolent
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February 22, 2013, 11:24:55 AM
 #835

Well thanks for the hint.
"Accidentially" I work for an EU institution and you can totally forget about it, it just a massive buerocracy and you need to waste one year for preparing paperwork.

It is a lot of bureacracy but it should take a lot less than that if you hire someone experienced.

Poland is less developed than Germany and receives a lot of money from the EU for funds and aids but most of it will end in 2013 IIRC (because it's been almost 10 years since joining the EU).

Yes, it is true that often money is only given for new projects.
But it is not a problem to start a new website (with an existing customer base Smiley )

As M4v3r lives in Poland you should be directing questions to him, you can email him about it or maybe he can see for himself.
There are at least 5 different EU funds that Poles can use that I am aware of.

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February 22, 2013, 11:31:11 AM
 #836

In EU we have funds and aids (basically free money) from EU organisations such as the European Regional Development Fund that help in setting up and financing investments of companies

Free as in other people (like me) are forced to pay for it.
malevolent
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February 22, 2013, 11:38:27 AM
 #837

In EU we have funds and aids (basically free money) from EU organisations such as the European Regional Development Fund that help in setting up and financing investments of companies

Free as in other people (like me) are forced to pay for it.


Yes. I never even recommend anyone to go along this route and wouldn't do so myself (it's against my principles of taking stolen (by taxation) money) but this is a last resort for M4v3R.
mralbi
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February 22, 2013, 12:14:54 PM
 #838

Do you have any links to specific funding programs? Or at least the name of the program(s) you have in mind? I am a full time EU buerocrat myself, as i've been working as EU official about three years now, so filling out the stuff might be annoying, but possible. That shouldn't be a bottleneck if it helps bitmarket... *g Unfortunately the funding programs I know of would not fund projects like that. But I work in the chemicals agency, for sure i do not know all the programs they offer. And my colleagues could not give me any useful hints either ;-)


The programs I know are either bound to "special innovation projects" or to "hi-tech product ideas" or specific to agriculture etc.. Usually most of the stuff are simply loans that need to go via a "normal" bank. I do not know any program that would give away "free" money just for sending some business plan for a website.


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February 22, 2013, 12:25:15 PM
 #839

In EU we have funds and aids (basically free money) from EU organisations such as the European Regional Development Fund that help in setting up and financing investments of companies

Free as in other people (like me) are forced to pay for it.


Yes. I never even recommend anyone to go along this route and wouldn't do so myself (it's against my principles of taking stolen (by taxation) money) but this is a last resort for M4v3R.

I agree. As an entrepreneur I stay away from so called "free" government money because I understand where it comes from. Apart from the moral objections I wouldn't be prepared to waste the time and effort, which would be better spend on the project itself. I can't stop anyone taking the free money but I am sure not going to support anyone who does. I.e. if bitmarket.eu follows that route, I would never use it again.
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February 22, 2013, 12:48:57 PM
 #840

Well, the money for these programs does not (like most people think) comes from the taxes they collect. It originally comes from debts... Only these debts create the money everybody uses... And only in the second step taxation comes in so they collect part of the money created from the debts back in, so they can at least pay for the interest and other government spendings. (There is no intention and no possible way to ever pay back the debts that create our money). The year after new debts will be made to create more money to pay back the old debts....

But ok, thats not the point of this thread.... My point is... While it is strongly recommended to critisize the "system" of exausive government spendings from debts, there is no point in refusing to take the money on INDIVIDUAL level, as the fake-money system needs these programs to "create" money. I prefer to put these resources into whatever bitcoin related project for a system change in the right direction. ;-) And a bitmarket peer2peer market would be a great step forward.

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