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Author Topic: BitMarket.Eu has closed down  (Read 182408 times)
bitdragon
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February 10, 2013, 07:39:29 PM
 #741

I believe that I answered you regarding Bitcoinica transactions in the Blockchain - it's pointless, because there's virtually now way now for me to prove that the money went TO Bitcoinica (I can prove that the FROM address belongs to me, but I could just send it to another address of mine if I were malicious)

Blockchain analysis together with other known Bitcoinica transfers should give a good indication as to whether the transfers were indeed Bitcoinica related or not.

Since there's no reason not to publish the transactions, I find it strange that you claim it's pointless instead of simply doing it.


I kindly request that you show the pointless transaction details and that you own indeed the from address as you mention. And from my humble understanding of bitcoin, it should be very possible to prove the beneficiary was bitcoinica, not even mentionning the über talented people on this forum which will make it very clear.

Even if you were malicious, you cannot redo the past transactions to suit some kind of show now.

Considering your statement of willing to make things right, it is extremely pertinent and relevant to respond with actions and put the light on and alleviate further concerns.

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February 10, 2013, 11:20:26 PM
 #742

I believe that I answered you regarding Bitcoinica transactions in the Blockchain - it's pointless, because there's virtually now way now for me to prove that the money went TO Bitcoinica (I can prove that the FROM address belongs to me, but I could just send it to another address of mine if I were malicious)

Blockchain analysis together with other known Bitcoinica transfers should give a good indication as to whether the transfers were indeed Bitcoinica related or not.

Since there's no reason not to publish the transactions, I find it strange that you claim it's pointless instead of simply doing it.


I kindly request that you show the pointless transaction details and that you own indeed the from address as you mention. And from my humble understanding of bitcoin, it should be very possible to prove the beneficiary was bitcoinica, not even mentionning the über talented people on this forum which will make it very clear.

Even if you were malicious, you cannot redo the past transactions to suit some kind of show now.

Considering your statement of willing to make things right, it is extremely pertinent and relevant to respond with actions and put the light on and alleviate further concerns.

+1

I think as much evidence as possible that doesn't require Bitcoinica's crew cooperation should be given by M4v3R.
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February 11, 2013, 04:34:30 AM
 #743

Can someone tell me if my thoughts are correct?

Here it goes: If he says that he traded all our BTCs at Bitcoinica, then the BTC address that the outgoing 18,000 BTCs would have gone out from would be the same, right? Or at least there will be very few, right?

For example: I had 34BTC on my address at bitmarket. He would had transferred that to his BTC account, then traded it out.. even if he used few different "wallets" or whatever..

IF this is correct.. then how come he won't give us the address, so we can check on blockchain all the BTC going out..?

Further to that.. because once he lost all the money it then became a ponzi scheme, where he would have to get new BTC coming in to give to people that withdrew their coins, would still have gone through the same address or a new address that he used for the ponzi part?

(if it doesn't make sense, just read it again slowly..)

Just trying to figure it out..
mralbi
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February 11, 2013, 08:33:41 AM
 #744

i am quite sure the admin messed around with other people's bitcions for quite a while without telling anyone, even after they were already lost and I am also sure that it was not a "single" transaction from his wallet to bitcoinia or so.

But I would be quite sure in the fact that the coins are simply gone and no matter what kind of evidence and criminal investigation we will demand it will not bring any coins back, so my proposal is to "force" him to give up the site and lets start a new project from scratch where he will be "forced" to clean up the mess and implement the features we want to see. I think even after all mess he created he is willing to help cleaning up and we should use this offer

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February 11, 2013, 10:22:13 AM
 #745

I understand that all of it didn't go in one transaction.. because he has confessed that he was gambling with the coins.. my question is: each coin would have to have gone out from "a" wallet/address.. what is the address of that wallet so we can see the coins going out? It doesn't matter that it was 2 billion transactions.. blockchain should have the record of the money coming off his "pocket"..

Do you know what I mean?

A lot of people post their bitcoins addresses up there for everyone to see.. and it's also all there for everyone to see.. I'm just asking: what is the address so we could see the coins going out?

Hope that makes sense...
mentore
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February 11, 2013, 12:49:38 PM
 #746

if I choose to decide later, this choice does it involve?

-a new questionnaire is done to make a final decision ? or automatically lose all my BTC ?

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February 11, 2013, 02:52:04 PM
 #747

well mentore,
no matter what you chose your bitcoins ARE already lost, in that sense yes it it automatic ;-)

I think when you put "decide later" it is interpreted as "some" kind of cooperation, as you did NOT click that you do not want to cooperate. I think you would be contacted separately, but it is assumed that you are not against any restoration plans.

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February 11, 2013, 03:43:53 PM
 #748

What if I chose not to cooperate? Will I still get reimbursement or does it mean, I get nothing and need to go to court?
mralbi
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February 11, 2013, 04:00:48 PM
 #749

if FEW people would chose not to cooperate we could go on with the restoration plan and the non-cooperative persons would be dealt with individually. (Possible solutions: A partial payout,provoking a court case , full payout in Euro where the bitcoins are valued at the time when they were bought or frozen, or whatever, it really depends on the amount of coins frozen and other factors like how much investment capital is available).

If MANY people chose not to cooperate the investors (me and others) would not see any chance to go on with the idea of a restoration plan, as cooperation is required for that (reopening the website etc.) and the "official liquidation" would be required. With current Bitcoin prices of 24 USD it is quite tricky already with FEW people not willing to cooperate.



My opinion on this is clear, i would prefer to reopen and run a site that belongs to "everyone" with frozen coins, separated from the old admin where we have a chance to get coins back. I would not prefer the liquidation, as it is costly, takes long time, is inefficient and we would get a quite small share of the frozen coins, like few percent.


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February 12, 2013, 09:35:35 AM
 #750

I can see no financial incentive for mralbi and "others" to "invest" in this essentially insolvent, indebted company. But then again this is bitcoin and it doesn't have to make financial sense. You just need a bunch of dumb suckers to buy your scammy plan. Plenty of those types on this forum. This has stunk as a scam from the beginning.

Mrabli are you willing to post personally identifying info?  I can't think of a LEGITIMATE bitcoin business owned and operated anonymously.  
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February 12, 2013, 09:57:42 AM
 #751

I kindly request that you show the pointless transaction details and that you own indeed the from address as you mention. And from my humble understanding of bitcoin, it should be very possible to prove the beneficiary was bitcoinica, not even mentionning the über talented people on this forum which will make it very clear.

Even if you were malicious, you cannot redo the past transactions to suit some kind of show now.

Considering your statement of willing to make things right, it is extremely pertinent and relevant to respond with actions and put the light on and alleviate further concerns.

mralbi
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February 12, 2013, 09:58:44 AM
 #752

Indeed, i do NOT have any financial incentive to invest. With 618 frozen bitcoins i am a victim of the misbehaviour as anyone else. But complaining does not help, i would like to do something.

But, it VERY important for me that the debts are formally separated from the new site and this is why i do NOT want to take over the site but REOPEN it. BUT, it would require cooperation from most people with frozen coins, because i cannot take the site out of the liquidation mass on my own. This is why i would propose this plan to reopen the site where many people CAN be stakeholders. We have some interested persons that would also invest "NEW" money into the site but of course it is by far not enough to pay out high sums.

I am not selling any plan, i do not even profit myself, it just costs MORE of my money, but i HOPE that i have a chance to see part of my frozen coins back in the future. I do not even say that this is a good plan, i just say, this is a better plan than the official liquidation where no one would see anything as everything goes to the lawyers.


As to my person, i would not run the site anonymously. If you need more info about me, just google me,  there is lot of info about me in the internet:

Here is my facebook (feel free to add me to access my "full" profile):
https://www.facebook.com/mralbi

This is my own youtube channel where you can also see me in person and listen to some stupid bitcoin-talk in german:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUTlkLNbn5Y93r5X9F8SBag?feature=watch

This is my xing profile where you can see my "professional" background and where i am working:
https://www.xing.com/profile/Martin_Albert4

and here is my "private" (and indeed outdated) collection of blogs:
mralbi.blogspot.com
mralbihelsinki.blogspot.com
and many more linked from there

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February 12, 2013, 10:18:44 AM
 #753

M4v3r. Are you able to be as transparent as mrabli?
mentore
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February 12, 2013, 11:53:53 AM
 #754

I would like to get 30% now , but at the same time I want the remaining 70% is invested in the new site ... is that possible?
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February 12, 2013, 01:02:22 PM
 #755

well, i dont think this particular option would be possible, since it would be discriminating against the others.

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February 12, 2013, 01:15:02 PM
 #756

I can see no financial incentive for mralbi and "others" to "invest" in this essentially insolvent, indebted company.

Agreed. While mralbi supplies personal information all posts reads like a bitmarket.eu admin sockpuppet. Even going so far as trying to explain away why we can't see blockchain transactions.

To repeat: If the official story is true there's no reason whatsoever to not show those transactions.

I'm now quite convinced that the official story isn't true, mralbi knows this, and I still believe the best action for bitmarket.eu users as well as for Bitcoin as a whole is to press legal charges.

(It's a clear cut case, the admin has confessed and Dutch jurisdiction will convict)
mralbi
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February 12, 2013, 01:47:00 PM
 #757

lol, I myself don't know anything about if the "official story" is true or not, fullstop. Prove would be nice, if thats possible, but it is at least not MY priority to fiddle around when and how which individual bitcoin was lost.

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February 12, 2013, 04:56:48 PM
 #758

I find it fascinating that M4v3r is refusing to release the transaction(s) related to the Bitcoinica debacle.  This is indicative of guilt.  I would not be surprised to learn that he took those coins for himself at this point, never gambling with them at Bitcoinica but simply using that as an excuse.  Hopefully he can prove me wrong on that...
mentore
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February 12, 2013, 06:39:44 PM
 #759

my idea is this, I will choose the last option and that means I will choose later ...

regarding my idea is to ask the 30% immediately, and the remaining 70% is returned to me slowly ...

I know that this idea may not be possible, but what happens if I choose the last option, entering my idea?

-immediately lose all my BTC?

-I am given the chance to do it again in the questionnaire?

-choose the last option I can not go back?

-What exactly happens if I choose the last option?



p.s.  You must excuse my English, but I have great difficulties to understand, because I use a simple translator, I hope you help me to understand, please be patient with me Sad
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February 12, 2013, 07:43:58 PM
 #760

I find it fascinating that M4v3r is refusing to release the transaction(s) related to the Bitcoinica debacle.  This is indicative of guilt.  I would not be surprised to learn that he took those coins for himself at this point, never gambling with them at Bitcoinica but simply using that as an excuse.  Hopefully he can prove me wrong on that...

Wouldn't surprise me ( no offence intended to M4v3r nothing personal) he was either extremely stupid and naive which is a possibility but what you stated above is more probable since he has not provided proof to the contrary.

I do like bitmarket and prefer it to mt.gox but I am not confident enough to use the site with any large sums of coins while he has  any significant involvement.

I also don't mind waiting to get my on hold balance back - which is the option I chose because this is the best exchange for me personally and I don't want to see it disappear.

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