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Author Topic: BitMarket.Eu has closed down  (Read 193143 times)
becoin
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March 19, 2013, 10:07:36 PM
 #921

5) Maciej, who represents bitmarket.eu, will sell the code of the old site to the new company
What will happen with the proceeds of this sale?

What if current creditors (all bitmarket customers) do not agree with the price?
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Chris Weber
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March 19, 2013, 10:13:30 PM
 #922

What if current creditors (all bitmarket customers) do not agree with the price?
I do not see users in any position of decision legal wise. The code is property of M4v3r until it is sold or he is sued and sentenced to give up his property.
becoin
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March 19, 2013, 10:25:23 PM
 #923

The code is property of M4v3r until it is sold or he is sue and sentenced to give up his property.
The code is not property of M4v3r but property of his creditors/customers as he has publicly admitted he owes them money he can't currently repay!
Chris Weber
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March 19, 2013, 10:34:29 PM
 #924

Nice position, proof it with some law Wink . Maybe you are right and I never heard of this law.
mralbi
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March 19, 2013, 11:29:17 PM
 #925

unless you win a court case against him to put him officially into bankruptcy you can try to veto for yourself as much as you want. We have identified only 11 non-cooperative users so far, the vast majority actively supports in principle our bail out plan and we would try to give our best to make this happen and create a good website.

In case someone would pay more for the technology please feel free to join us investors, PM me and make this bail out project happen. It took us a big effort with many hours of discussion to acquire the current 50.000 Euros and this is just a limited capital for a lot of things to do..... We all have frozen coins and would like to be reimbursed for our losses

becoin
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March 20, 2013, 06:53:14 AM
 #926

Nice position, proof it with some law Wink . Maybe you are right and I never heard of this law.
Are you really asking me to prove M4v3r owes money to his customers?!
M4v3R
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March 20, 2013, 06:59:18 AM
 #927

Becoin: I don't know if you have frozen coins on Bitmarket or not, but the whole point of me getting payment for the website and consulting is to get funds so I can repay the debts. I don't take any profits from the sale to myself - it will all go to the users, which could be easily proven (prices will be announced and all creditors will receive detailed reports about actions taken).
You could argue that the users should decide, but in case I don't do it, no one gets any money back - I can't really pay back the users with source code. So really the discussion is pointless.
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March 20, 2013, 07:01:19 AM
 #928

btw

can someone of the admins, release my 2btc in the bitmarket.eu now ?
simply return them to my payout address, please
thank you in advance

best regards
pazor

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Ted
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March 20, 2013, 07:27:02 AM
 #929

Dear Bitmarket.eu "stakeholders",

Last week-end from 15-17.3.2013 we had an investors' "kick-off" meeting in Helsinki about the situation of bitmarket.eu, and we just wanted to inform everyone quickly about the main decision points:

1) Bitmarket.eu operations will be closed down. The site will only be left open to handle the old frozen coin issues for which Maciej as the owner of bitmarket.eu is responsible.

2) The group of investors will create a new legal entity in form of a newly founded Aktiengesellschaft with seat in Germany. The company name will be "BiTalo AG" with a website at www.bitalo.com (also bitalo.org and bitalo.net have been registered).

3) So far we have acquired a starting capital of minimum 50.000 euros from a small group of investors. It is still possible to contact us for additional investment of NEW money.

4) It will not be possible to bring in "frozen coins" as shares to the new company, as this is not feasible from a legal point of view. We are still investigating possible solutions for treating "frozen coins" as a long-term investment.

5) Maciej, who represents bitmarket.eu, will sell the code of the old site to the new company, while the user database and debts will remain as his responsibility. Maciej will not be a shareholder nor participate in the administration of the new co-operation.

6) The goal of the new company is to create a new platform with new trading and market functions and efficient security measures so no admin can access a user's bitcoins without consent of the user. Old bitmarket.eu users may create an account on the new site if they wish, but the new company has no obligations towards them.

7) The plan is to start with 6 persons: 3 persons in the management board and 3 in the supervisory board in official roles. They will be paid no salary until the site is profitable.

Cool The new company will invest the starting capital into the development of a new site and therefore employ Maciej as a consultant. Additional developers will be hired, and one of Maciej's main duties will be to transfer his knowledge of how the code works to new developers and administrators.

9) As long as the new company employs Maciej, he will use part of his income to reimburse frozen coins. A more detailed payback plan might be announced on the old bitmarket.eu website by Maciej. The new company will only be responsible to verify that Maciej fulfills this duty.

10) In case additional people are interested in participation and/or investments, just contact mralbi by PM.

Will the accounts from the old site be transferred to the new site, and will we be able to login through our old credentials?
mralbi
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March 20, 2013, 07:28:33 AM
 #930

even if the balance is very small like 2 BTC, I assume there would not be any preferred payouts, as there are simply no bitcoins.

You can
a) wait till the new operation starts and Maciej is able to pay back some amount(s) over time
b) Make an official claim and go via the legal route, probably not worth it for 2 BTC
c) Join the investors and add additional new money/time to make the project work

becoin
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March 20, 2013, 07:30:29 AM
 #931

unless you win a court case against him to put him officially into bankruptcy you can try to veto for yourself as much as you want. We have identified only 11 non-cooperative users so far, the vast majority actively supports in principle our bail out plan and we would try to give our best to make this happen and create a good website.

In case someone would pay more for the technology please feel free to join us investors, PM me and make this bail out project happen. It took us a big effort with many hours of discussion to acquire the current 50.000 Euros and this is just a limited capital for a lot of things to do..... We all have frozen coins and would like to be reimbursed for our losses
1. There are no "frozen coins" for there are no coins at all. All the coins were lost by M4v3r when he gambled with his customers' money.
2. There is no bail-out plan because bitmarket.eu ceases to exists. Actually, you're bailing-out M4v3r not bitmarket.eu! The only asset bitmarket.eu has (the source code) is effectively intercepted by another entity.
3. In addition to customers' bitcoins now M4v3r gets a bonus - the proceeds from the source code sale! That's really sweet.

How much will you be paying M4v3r for the source, mralbi? I hope that money will be enough to settle his debt to the 11 non-cooperative customers and have some left for the celebration party?
M4v3R
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March 20, 2013, 07:38:46 AM
 #932

Will the accounts from the old site be transferred to the new site, and will we be able to login through our old credentials?

The new site will be independent of old one, so you will have to register again. There will be a way, per user request, to transfer your reputation to the new site though, so if you made several successful transactions on Bitmarket they will show up on Bitalo, so you will have a trust credit right on the start. Bitalo.com will have a rating system, so this will be very helpful to buyers and sellers.
manfred
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March 20, 2013, 09:22:46 AM
 #933

Since there is a entirely new corporation with limited shares being formed the whole issue of cooperative, partly cooperative, non-cooperative becomes irrelevant. bitmarket.eu is bankrupt and us such all on hold coins are the same.

Yeh i will invest 1oz gold coin in the new side.
mralbi
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March 20, 2013, 09:27:50 AM
 #934

well, actually not, the "passive investors" and "cooperative" become the same, as for technical reasons we need to put 50.000 Euro of NEW money into the cooparation. it is not possible to bring in frozen coins or whatever non-existing thing. This has also to with the latest hacker attack, which losses would propably be reimbursed first.

Passive investors can still become active investors by investing additional money so in that sense they would be preferred.

Also the other options would stay, it is simply Maciej who would stay responsible to pay back coins, also for obvious reasons that there is no way in taking over old debts.

manfred
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March 20, 2013, 10:11:42 AM
 #935

if the on hold coins are not all the same in which basket are the 1009 (7105 btc) to date non-responders end up?
I am awaiting some unrelated news before converting a Maple Leaf into bitalo. what does the alo stand for?
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March 20, 2013, 10:30:50 AM
 #936

Will the accounts from the old site be transferred to the new site, and will we be able to login through our old credentials?

The new site will be independent of old one, so you will have to register again. There will be a way, per user request, to transfer your reputation to the new site though, so if you made several successful transactions on Bitmarket they will show up on Bitalo, so you will have a trust credit right on the start. Bitalo.com will have a rating system, so this will be very helpful to buyers and sellers.

How will my frozen coins be handled?
M4v3R
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March 20, 2013, 11:19:23 AM
 #937

Frozen coins are still my responsibility, they have nothing to do with the new Bitalo project.

For handling frozen coins and repaying the debts, Bitmarket.eu website will be used. This week the site will be reopened with trading functions removed and its sole purpose will be letting me communicate with all debt holders and giving them access to their records (transaction history, total "on hold" balance and repayment records).
crazy573
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March 20, 2013, 12:27:06 PM
 #938

So to sum things up:

-The new site has nothing to do with Bitmarket.eu.
-Frozen bitcoins will partly payed back by M4v3R by selling the the code of Bitmarket and some consulting and that's it.

Which means investing new money in the new site doesn't bring us any closer to our frozen bitcoins, so you better start a new topic for that.
We only get a very small percentage of our frozen BTC back and after the consulting, M4v3R's part of the job is done and no more frozen BTC will be payed back anymore?
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March 20, 2013, 12:46:51 PM
 #939

I am a little bit confused too...
I had in mind that all customers with holed-on or frozen coins from bitmarket.eu will be ( in a certain way) partner of the new site. That seem not to be true any more?!
If I understand right the cheated costumer from bitmarket will have NOTHING from opening a new site, they will only get a little bit money back from what the old owner "earns" by selling the site code?
I hoped that at least all old customer would get any kind of  "free" selling or dealing their bitcoins for "lifetime" at the new site and earning a little bit if there is a profit! Seems that my intention was very wrong?!
becoin
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March 20, 2013, 12:48:48 PM
 #940

Frozen coins are still my responsibility, they have nothing to do with the new Bitalo project.
Except that now, after you have sold the source to a competitor, your chance to repay any debt beyond proceeds from source sale is zero!

As far as I understand you intend to continue to operate bitmarket.eu and in the same time be an advisor to a direct competitor bitalo.com! Isn't that a conflict of interest?

I want to buy the source as well. What is your price?
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