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Author Topic: BitMarket.Eu has closed down  (Read 182483 times)
mralbi
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December 21, 2012, 09:50:04 AM
 #521

Ok, thanks for this honest reply. It is really a sad story, but nevertheless, i currently have over 600 BTC at bitmarket.eu which i want to withdraw right now! (They were also meant as christmas present) When you already say right now that it is not possible i do not see any chance to avoid a court case to make my claims "official".

-Martin

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mralbi
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December 21, 2012, 10:26:09 AM
 #522

when 1800 coins are currently pending (and 620 or so are mine anyway), thats roughly around 20000 euro....  This is not such a huge sum (in comparison to what is with bitconia etc. lost) and i might be willing to invest under certain conditions.

I will send you a PM



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December 21, 2012, 10:47:15 AM
 #523

Hello all. I'm terrible sorry for not responding to this earlier. A mix of personal issues with searching for a solution prevented me from it.

Unfortunately, I have very bad news. I cannot currently proccess your withdrawals. The situation is very complicated and it's all my fault, that's why I feel terrible about it. I tried to make this up, to keep the site afloat and somehow recover the funds, but it's not possible anymore. Right now there are 1786 BTC pending withdrawal, which I can't honor...

Earlier this year, I had this "genius" idea which led me to making a fatal mistake. I thought I could provide a hedge fund service for Bitmarket users. There were other sites providing this service so I guesses that it could be successful. I had experience in trading before, all I needed is a platform. And there was one - Bitcoinica. I was so convinced with this idea (and sooo wrong in hindsight) that for a while I kept majority of "offline" Bitmarket funds there. What I didn't expect was that one day it could just dissapear - taking all the money with it. What's worse, the funds were shorted when it happened (converted to USD and sold) - and after Bitcoinica dissapeared BTC price rose by about 250% until now. So while there is still chance to recover the funds (there is an appointed liquidator assigned to this case and I've already sent in claims) it will be not enough to cover all people's funds. For the record - there are 20161 19980 BTC missing (edit: I subtracted my funds that also were deposited on Bitmarket), and Bitcoinica claims total for around 50K USD (the exact amount is uncertain because the liquidators haven't yet stated at what rate they will liquidate positions).

Sadly, I alone, I'm out of options. I don't have own money to pay for this loss (Bitmarket never made any real profit and I make up for a living by part-time web/mobile programming). The options for making this up for everyone as I see are:

- find an investor (or investors) that is willing to cover at least part of is debt. I would transfer all rights to the website software, servers and database to him and also work as a technician, possibly also implementing features he'd wanted. If you reading this have the funds necessary to make this work, PLEASE contact me on this.
- freeze all current funds and "start over" trading with explicit fees, implementing much-needed features like rating system and others. All profits from the fees would go directly to a fund for repaying the debt. I'm afraid that this option alone is not enough though - many people won't (and have full right to do so) trust the site again...
- something else?

Again, I would like to deeply apologize to everyone involved with this. I'm really sorry Sad. I made a fatal mistake and I have to deal with it now. If you thinking about sueing me about this - you have full right to do so, but I don't think it's a good idea - I don't have any money so winning a case will get nothing for you and possibly ruin my life Sad. It also would prevent me from doing anything to alleviate this situation, and I really want to make this up for everyone and I'm willing to do anything in my power to do this. I had many sleepless nights thinking about how I can make this tight. I just need some help with this.

Last, but not least...
If you have any bitcoin you can donate to help users that have locked funds, please send them here: 1Km5GFMat1DXcbvMTeH9ZvLGKvFCLBA9dM
All received Bitcoins will go directly to process withdrawals. I will update how much is left in this thread.

Derp.

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December 21, 2012, 11:27:41 AM
 #524

I sold BTC and just unlocked the coins. Will my counterparty be able to withdraw the coins?
Who takes the risk of a potential loss -  seller or buyer?

I openly boycott the Bitcoinica Consultancy team or Intersango: Donald Norman, Patrick Strateman and Amir Taaki
morda
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December 21, 2012, 12:51:52 PM
 #525

so im gona be 30 coins short, great christmas aint it

mralbi - if u start anything, hola at me ill testify against this

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December 21, 2012, 01:43:22 PM
 #526

Fucking Bitcoinica and Interscamgo is still fucking up our year. And now they're about to take Bitmarket with them, too? You did the right step admitting to it. These self-proclaimed Bitcoin promoters organizing conferences have no idea just how much they have sustainably hurt the entire Bitcoin project. Thank goodness you're not Patrick Strateman covering lies with more lies. I really hope you can set this right. Everyone will be horribly disappointed now and call you a scammer but I wish you have a chance to get out of this mess.  

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December 21, 2012, 02:03:43 PM
 #527

Thanks for your reply.

Even though I am angry about my lost Bitcoins I have to admit that partly it's also my (our) fault. I used your site and took it for granted, not donating anything. If you had made some sort of profit (through fees or donations) you wouldn't have had to try to gain money through speculation.

Personally, I would use your site if you introduced a fee and rating system.

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December 21, 2012, 02:04:38 PM
 #528

...and as we conclude another episode of "The Wild West of Bitcoin"...

(think it's time to head over to Fort Gox to prepare for the impending sell-off)
sarpar
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December 21, 2012, 02:28:49 PM
 #529

Is he actually saying: "I used YOUR funds to speculate" and "sorry - couldnt know there is risk involved. I am an experienced trader."
 Huh
Do I actually misunderstand the business model of an escrow-service? Where the heck did you see a potential benefit for the user with the Bitcoinica adventure?

Bitcoinica went down quite a while ago - how could you cover up this mess such a long time?

I openly boycott the Bitcoinica Consultancy team or Intersango: Donald Norman, Patrick Strateman and Amir Taaki
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December 21, 2012, 02:39:36 PM
 #530

Excellent choice of date for a coming out. On an upside, it's only bitmarket going under, not the world.

mralbi
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December 21, 2012, 02:58:20 PM
 #531

Just from my previous experience from the site...and after reading his answer here in the forum, I am (still) quite sure he is an honest guy and i believe him when he says that he really tried his best to prevent damage from the users. Of course i am totally pissed off that he obviously left us behind in the dark for quite some time. He could have simply closed the site without coming back via the forum and not keep the trading ongoing.

Anyway, I agreed to have a skype call with him this evening, going to court is always an annoying thing, i would rather be happy to invest the missing 20.000 euro or 1800 bitcoin into that site so everybody can get his money back and implement some good ideas instead of going through a long court proceeding where i would see the money back in 2 or 3 years.

I think it is not enough to simply continue as before and charge 0.5% on every trade, there should be something more innovative like a real forex service where you can for example change bitcoin to foreign currencies at low costs (but i have no idea on how this could work in practice) or ehm yeah, i dont know yet.

If you have any good ideas for the site that could convince me for investing into that site, please let me know your thoughts.




exxe
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December 21, 2012, 03:00:38 PM
 #532

Speculating with user funds on a Bitcoin related platform (everyone knows that most of them get hacked/shut down/scam) shows that you are not an experienced trader. Shorting them makes it even worse! It's like betting all funds on red at a roulette wheel ...   Cry
Nevertheless, it's good that you are honest with your customers and I hope you can enjoy Christmas a little bit.

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December 21, 2012, 03:31:48 PM
 #533

can someone explain exactly where the coins went? Were the stolen via a hack or were they speculated and lost? It is not clear what exactly happened thus it is hard to say if anyone deserves the scammer tag,.

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December 21, 2012, 03:58:51 PM
 #534

Hello all. I'm terrible sorry for not responding to this earlier. A mix of personal issues with searching for a solution prevented me from it.

Unfortunately, I have very bad news. I cannot currently proccess your withdrawals. The situation is very complicated and it's all my fault, that's why I feel terrible about it. I tried to make this up, to keep the site afloat and somehow recover the funds, but it's not possible anymore. Right now there are 1786 BTC pending withdrawal, which I can't honor...

Earlier this year, I had this "genius" idea which led me to making a fatal mistake. I thought I could provide a hedge fund service for Bitmarket users. There were other sites providing this service so I guesses that it could be successful. I had experience in trading before, all I needed is a platform. And there was one - Bitcoinica. I was so convinced with this idea (and sooo wrong in hindsight) that for a while I kept majority of "offline" Bitmarket funds there. What I didn't expect was that one day it could just dissapear - taking all the money with it. What's worse, the funds were shorted when it happened (converted to USD and sold) - and after Bitcoinica dissapeared BTC price rose by about 250% until now. So while there is still chance to recover the funds (there is an appointed liquidator assigned to this case and I've already sent in claims) it will be not enough to cover all people's funds. For the record - there are 20161 19980 BTC missing (edit: I subtracted my funds that also were deposited on Bitmarket), and Bitcoinica claims total for around 50K USD (the exact amount is uncertain because the liquidators haven't yet stated at what rate they will liquidate positions).

Sadly, I alone, I'm out of options. I don't have own money to pay for this loss (Bitmarket never made any real profit and I make up for a living by part-time web/mobile programming). The options for making this up for everyone as I see are:

- find an investor (or investors) that is willing to cover at least part of is debt. I would transfer all rights to the website software, servers and database to him and also work as a technician, possibly also implementing features he'd wanted. If you reading this have the funds necessary to make this work, PLEASE contact me on this.
- freeze all current funds and "start over" trading with explicit fees, implementing much-needed features like rating system and others. All profits from the fees would go directly to a fund for repaying the debt. I'm afraid that this option alone is not enough though - many people won't (and have full right to do so) trust the site again...
- something else?

Again, I would like to deeply apologize to everyone involved with this. I'm really sorry Sad. I made a fatal mistake and I have to deal with it now. If you thinking about sueing me about this - you have full right to do so, but I don't think it's a good idea - I don't have any money so winning a case will get nothing for you and possibly ruin my life Sad. It also would prevent me from doing anything to alleviate this situation, and I really want to make this up for everyone and I'm willing to do anything in my power to do this. I had many sleepless nights thinking about how I can make this tight. I just need some help with this.

Last, but not least...
If you have any bitcoin you can donate to help users that have locked funds, please send them here: 1Km5GFMat1DXcbvMTeH9ZvLGKvFCLBA9dM
All received Bitcoins will go directly to process withdrawals. I will update how much is left in this thread.

Derp.

Double derp  Undecided

They labeled me "snitch" for warning people about bitcoinica http://bitcoin-shitlist.com/2012/02/16/paraipan/

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December 21, 2012, 03:59:07 PM
 #535

You used your customers funds to invest in high speculative leverage products on the bit coin/dollar price? You call this a hedge fund? Next time buy lottery tickets! I would sue you if I had any bitcoins to get from you. Who in their right mind would trust a child like you with another nickel?

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December 21, 2012, 03:59:46 PM
 #536

Oh please, give the scammer tag to Zhou Tong and Team Intersango first. Thank you.

Otoh
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December 21, 2012, 04:04:03 PM
 #537

Yet another one gambling with user's funds, losing them & then carrying on trading & accepting new deposits for months when knowingly insolvent, I really wish that one of these idiots was made bankrupt & prosecuted for blatant fraud.

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levino
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December 21, 2012, 04:10:07 PM
 #538

Quote
Dear Bitmarket user,
I have been running bitmarket.eu for the past two years. I, and my partner at the time, created bitmarket.eu as a place to freely and easily exchange bitcoins in as many currencies as possible. We hoped we could fund the site using only optional donations from our users and without any adverts clogging up the site.

We have to be honest with you and tell you that this has become difficult. We have received far fewer donations than we had hoped for and with the increasing cost of security (due to hackers) we are barely covering the cost of servers, security and Web hosting fees. We love bitmarket.eu and, of course, bitcoin and hope to keep it free for all of our users but for we need your help right now. If you could donate us just one or two bitcoins this would be a massive help to keep bit Bitmarket.eu ontrack. If we receive enough bitcoins we could invest more time and money into the website which would be a huge bonus to all of you.

We ask you if you could donate just 1 or 2 bitcoins to the following address:

1Km5GFMat1DXcbvMTeH9ZvLGKvFCLBA9dM

Of course, if you would like to donate more than this then we would be over the moon and if you can only donate less then we fully understand.

Thank you for your time reading this

Excuse me? You ask people for money on your website without telling them, that your "money problems" are the consequence of you defalcating your customers funds? This is what you call putting the cards on the table?

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SgtSpike
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December 21, 2012, 04:38:37 PM
 #539

when 1800 coins are currently pending (and 620 or so are mine anyway), thats roughly around 20000 euro....  This is not such a huge sum (in comparison to what is with bitconia etc. lost) and i might be willing to invest under certain conditions.

I will send you a PM



It's not just 1800 coins, it's 19,980.  Only 1800 have been requested for withdrawal at this point.  If you invest that much, what happens when people withdraw the other 18,000?

What I'd like to know is, was any user aware of this "hedge fund service"?  If M4v3R was serious about providing a hedge fund service for his customers, what would have been the expected benefit?  Was he going to pay funds to the users if the BTC price dropped or something?

My suspicion is that it was never on behalf of the users at all - that M4v3R got greedy, got tired of running a service for free, and wanted to use the massive amount of BTC he was holding on behalf of other users to make a profit for himself.
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December 21, 2012, 05:03:41 PM
 #540

Fucking Bitcoinica and Interscamgo is still fucking up our year. And now they're about to take Bitmarket with them, too? You did the right step admitting to it. These self-proclaimed Bitcoin promoters organizing conferences have no idea just how much they have sustainably hurt the entire Bitcoin project. Thank goodness you're not Patrick Strateman covering lies with more lies. I really hope you can set this right. Everyone will be horribly disappointed now and call you a scammer but I wish you have a chance to get out of this mess.  

Dood went 1:100 with other people's money without asking for those other people's permission (in fact, fraudulently misrepresenting it) and then went a further 10:1 or w/e Bitcoinica was offering, for a staggering 1000:1 leverage. This was going to fail no matter what, it makes no difference that it failed this way or that way.

"He had experience" no less.

My Credentials  | THE BTC Stock Exchange | I have my very own anthology! | Use bitcointa.lk, it's like this one but better.
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