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[Rikafip]

Speaking of this, I think the probability of "something bad has happened to the person who runs WW rather than this being a scam" has now increased, I mean if this was a straight-out scam, why wouldn't they fix the clear net, and made a small transfer from the multisig address to make things look 'normal' so they can scam more people?, I don't think a scammer will have enough and decide they don't want to scam anymore -- after all, they could have taken down the main server too if they want to stop scamming!.

There is something strange about this mixer, as I said, it doesn't really matter much to the users who lost funds, because whether the person behind the mixer was a scammer or a dead man -- the results are the same, but knowing for sure what actually happened would be good.

While  I do agree that this is a weird case and that something is off, if indeed something happened to the person behind ww and that's what caused all this, wouldn't they communicate it with Hhampuz rather than letting people think they exit scammed?

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[LoyceV]

Someone is still using whirlwind website and making deposits!
Two deposits made yesterday, but there is no change in their BTC address, still showing 12.85436836 BTC, last transactions made 3 weeks ago.
I don't know what would be the best way to warn people not to send them coins anymore...

You can't warn everyone.

So it could be someone who isn't aware of the latest events, or the owner himself giving the illusion that his mixer still works.

I was thinking the same: pretend the site is still actively being used, so potential users don't find it suspicious.

I think the probability of "something bad has happened to the person who runs WW rather than this being a scam" has now increased, I mean if this was a straight-out scam, why wouldn't they fix the clear net, and made a small transfer from the multisig address to make things look 'normal' so they can scam more people?

That doesn't fit the message sent to HHampuz after a long time of inactivity:

I got an email back from whirlwind just now and it was as I suspected - something happened.

Basically, main people lost access due to travels while people still with access didn't have the right credentials to solve basic issues that caused withdraws to get stuck on the back-end. I've been assured that nothing has been lost and that all will be taken care of tomorrow meaning all currently pending withdraws will be processed and things return back to normal. It was an unfortunate situation is all!

I've asked my contact at whirlwind to reply in this thread whenever they can with further details, so from now until then/tomorrow night there is no need to panic even if I wouldn't recommend you to deposit until the backlog is cleared. Campaign participants will also be paid out as per usual tomorrow, regardless of if you've removed your signature or not.

[stompix]

I really wanted to stay away from this clusterfuck but well, I fee like saying it

First, I really don't believe there was a "team", and more like a leader that employed a few guys who helped him with minor stuff like customer support or with programming, this didn't look like some organized thing with schedules and so on. The delay between withdrawals that was happening quite often made me in the last weeks go instantly for cash out my notes and I stopped using it for other purposes, I really felt like there was one guy behind that was sleeping for 6 hours doing a bit of work take a nap and then keep processing things.

As for their activity here, the guy knows Bitcointalk, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a user here for a long time, and if he isn't active even right now, let's be real, he did almost perfectly to gain trust, both the mixer itself and the campaign trying to mimic Chipmixer, a manager with good reputation, depositing a few thousands in an escrow, making it look like they are here to stay for years, he knew how to do it, no outsider would. And despite the other red flags he earned more of our trust than he should have, let's just deal with it.

For the scam, I really don't know:
a) They were planning on a long scam to get enough money in their mixing, then delayed the processing and resolving only cases that surfaced, keeping unclaimed money till it went boom,  so selective scamming then full scam.
b) They got enough now and say to themselves they are spending more than they will ever gain
c) The unexpected accident as the guy who is behind this, again, I don't believe it's a team, that multi-sig doesn't matter, he either got in a stupid accident, or got arrested or something else, and the extra guys employed d for support at first responded then saw no news from him and decided it's better to abandon ship out of fear.
d) very low probability, the business was not productive at all, they were losing money, they tried but failed and decided to just drop it and go MIA!

Nobody likes how this turned out, that is obvious, it also means that new services will get a real cold shoulder treatment, but that is what we should have done before acting like my notes my coins.

You got stupid lagecy media like Yahoo that still lists whirlwind at the top of the mixers lists referring to it as

a leading Bitcoin mixer that adheres to a strict no-logs policy, ensuring that once the mixing process is completed, all transaction information is permanently erased.

That's a press release article, unfortunately yahoo doesn't take them down even after being deleted by the original issuers.
https://www.accesswire.com/755660/Bitcoin-Mixer-Offers-Services-Enhancing-Privacy-and-Anonymity-in-Cryptocurrency-Transactions

Btw it was paid by bitcoinmixing(dot)org. which is a scam.

Fortunately, they only link to clearnet, with that down it might deter newbies for searching for the tor link!

[NotATether]

I don't believe that anyone from this forum. I think that all mixer users here are already familiar with the withdrawal problem on WW.

You got stupid lagecy media like Yahoo that still lists whirlwind at the top of the mixers lists referring to it as

a leading Bitcoin mixer that adheres to a strict no-logs policy, ensuring that once the mixing process is completed, all transaction information is permanently erased.

So more victims are likely to fall for the scam, however, since the clear net server is down, people coming from the likes of Yahoo will probably end up seeing this topic, although many of them will be careless, just copy the onion link and go.

The worst part about Yahoo is that they don't even have a page or email address to report errors or fraudulent content. It'll probably take a lawsuit to force them to place a report button on their pages.

Speaking of this, I think the probability of "something bad has happened to the person who runs WW rather than this being a scam" has now increased, I mean if this was a straight-out scam, why wouldn't they fix the clear net, and made a small transfer from the multisig address to make things look 'normal' so they can scam more people?, I don't think a scammer will have enough and decide they don't want to scam anymore -- after all, they could have taken down the main server too if they want to stop scamming!.

There is something strange about this mixer, as I said, it doesn't really matter much to the users who lost funds, because whether the person behind the mixer was a scammer or a dead man -- the results are the same, but knowing for sure what actually happened would be good.

It is probable, but if you're going to be away from keyboard for long periods of time, then you should not run a service which handles people's money (unless it's something like an online store with a no-refund policy).

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

I really wanted to stay away from this clusterfuck but well, I fee like saying it

First, I really don't believe there was a "team", and more like a leader that employed a few guys who helped him with minor stuff like customer support or with programming, this didn't look like some organized thing with schedules and so on. The delay between withdrawals that was happening quite often made me in the last weeks go instantly for cash out my notes and I stopped using it for other purposes, I really felt like there was one guy behind that was sleeping for 6 hours doing a bit of work take a nap and then keep processing things.

As for their activity here, the guy knows Bitcointalk, I wouldn't be surprised if he was a user here for a long time, and if he isn't active even right now, let's be real, he did almost perfectly to gain trust, both the mixer itself and the campaign trying to mimic Chipmixer, a manager with good reputation, depositing a few thousands in an escrow, making it look like they are here to stay for years, he knew how to do it, no outsider would. And despite the other red flags he earned more of our trust than he should have, let's just deal with it.

For the scam, I really don't know:
a) They were planning on a long scam to get enough money in their mixing, then delayed the processing and resolving only cases that surfaced, keeping unclaimed money till it went boom,  so selective scamming then full scam.
b) They got enough now and say to themselves they are spending more than they will ever gain
c) The unexpected accident as the guy who is behind this, again, I don't believe it's a team, that multi-sig doesn't matter, he either got in a stupid accident, or got arrested or something else, and the extra guys employed d for support at first responded then saw no news from him and decided it's better to abandon ship out of fear.
d) very low probability, the business was not productive at all, they were losing money, they tried but failed and decided to just drop it and go MIA!

Nobody likes how this turned out, that is obvious, it also means that new services will get a real cold shoulder treatment, but that is what we should have done before acting like my notes my coins.

I think we both share some similar thoughts. Few days ago I also had some thought about WW. We can only speculate but will never be able to know the truth. Even if they come and explain the truth, I don't think anyone will care to believe it.

They messed up, either they knew what they are doing or their genuine interest dropped when they found the business needs more investment but still higher risk to be in profit.

[Synchronice]

You got stupid lagecy media like Yahoo that still lists whirlwind at the top of the mixers lists referring to it as

Couldn't imagine if I could find an article about bitcoin mixers on yahoo. Is it possible to submit guest posts to yahoo news? By the way, I always think about this video when I read or hear yahoo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdzilA215uE
- Trump: 'Are you gonna apologize yahoo? That's why you are yahoo and nobody knows who the hell you are'. This was brutally funny.

For the scam, I really don't know:
a) They were planning on a long scam to get enough money in their mixing, then delayed the processing and resolving only cases that surfaced, keeping unclaimed money till it went boom,  so selective scamming then full scam.
b) They got enough now and say to themselves they are spending more than they will ever gain
c) The unexpected accident as the guy who is behind this, again, I don't believe it's a team, that multi-sig doesn't matter, he either got in a stupid accident, or got arrested or something else, and the extra guys employed d for support at first responded then saw no news from him and decided it's better to abandon ship out of fear.
d) very low probability, the business was not productive at all, they were losing money, they tried but failed and decided to just drop it and go MIA!

a) Their marketing strategy and timeframe wasn't really enough for such a scam. Nobody would spend tens or hundreds of bitcoin to the address of such a fresh mixer. This strategy may work for a company that's at least 1 year old with still ongoing intense marketing on many places. They also had 40K DAI in escrow. I don't think this service was intended for scam from the beginning.

b) Mixing business is probably one of the most profitable business out there. You get tons of volume and charge 1-5% from each transaction, don't have big expenses and don't pay taxes. This is ideal business for long-term profit. Probably they really got enough because they financially failed.

c) Team is a buzzword used by a single individual. It was probably run by an individual who had hired some people for FE/BE staff.

d) I think that version is the most possible reason. The ration of spend/outcome was probably very bad, they were spending more but were getting less. The outcome from marketing and project probably didn't meet their expectation and they gave up on it or weren't able to keep it. Does anyone know what were their reserves? How much coins were they holding and/or what was the max amount one could try to mix?

[JollyGood]

There is definitely something strange about Whirlwind. The way they arrived in the forum with an innovative mixing idea and then abandoned it, something seems strange especially with the manner they left behind the $40,000 deposit.

There is something strange about this mixer, as I said, it doesn't really matter much to the users who lost funds, because whether the person behind the mixer was a scammer or a dead man -- the results are the same, but knowing for sure what actually happened would be good.

[mikeywith]

That doesn't fit the message sent to HHampuz after a long time of inactivity:

I don't question the integrity of that message given that it was reported by Hampuz, but I do question the intention of whoever sent him that message, what did they gain? they said they would fix things in a few hours / the next day, what does that earn them if we were to assume they are nothing but scammers? if that message holds any truth in it, it's could be the other way around, something bad happened to the person with access, and whoever wrote that message has no access to anything but an email of some sort.

There is definitely something strange about Whirlwind. The way they arrived in the forum with an innovative mixing idea and then abandoned it, something seems strange especially with the manner they left behind the $40,000 deposit.

As mentioned in my previous post, going with the assumption that this has been a scam attempt from the get-go -- leaving the 40k in escrow increases users' trust, asking to get the 40k back while pretending to be sitting on a lot of BTC was going to make them a little less trustworthy, but what doesn't make sense is their complete absence.

Let's think as a scammer, your main goal is to scam the most money, so now regular users of the forum are aware of your scam and they will no longer use your service, but everyone else who isn't active here and isn't lucky enough to read all the updates doesn't know, so in order to scam even more people you would want to

1-Fix the clearnet
2-Make some withdrawals from the multisig (to addresses you own) to make things seem normal
3-Change the color of the main banner on your website

Basically, anything that would make anyone attempting to use your service more comfortable so you can scam more and more money, if you don't do that, then it's one of four.

1- Stupid (obviously not the case here we know WW person here was pretty smart)
2- You feel bad and don't want to scam more people (would bet my first born that no scammer would do that) p.s you would just shut down the whole service if this was the case.
3-You are not a scammer and something bad actually happened to you.
4-You are indeed a scammer BUT something bad actually happened to you.

Anyway, it's fun to hear all the different thoughts on this, we all are just speculating (for fun and curiosity I suppose), we may know the truth at one point, or maybe not.

[LeGaulois]

I'm going to add a conspiracy theory for fun

The press release is full of phishing links... except Whirlwind's link.

When you buy a PR to advertise all scams you run, what's the use to advertise a legit business?

[shasan]

The clearnet domain of the website has been down for around 2-3 weeks now. The .onion version is still functional from my end. Which version did you try to access?

Then I think I am on the right way I could not access their site as I have not used the .onion version I have used clearnet domain. I have not used tor browsers too. Anyway, thank you for the answer which is the perfect answer. Actually, I left a topic long ago and not followed and I though the problem happened for me only and it will be solved.

[stormbounty]

For weeks i called this guy out and was consistently attacked. I lost $200 but im so sorry for people that lost more.

But the forum has to punish everyone that defended this scam during my callout ..

Yes it is possible to submit posts to Yahoo Finance, Business insider and even almighty Bloomberg (no links allowed here though),  I did that for a living and recently restarted the business after whirlwind took my money and forced me to go back to my side hustles.

You got stupid lagecy media like Yahoo that still lists whirlwind at the top of the mixers lists referring to it as

Couldn't imagine if I could find an article about bitcoin mixers on yahoo. Is it possible to submit guest posts to yahoo news? By the way, I always think about this video when I read or hear yahoo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdzilA215uE
- Trump: 'Are you gonna apologize yahoo? That's why you are yahoo and nobody knows who the hell you are'. This was brutally funny.

For the scam, I really don't know:
a) They were planning on a long scam to get enough money in their mixing, then delayed the processing and resolving only cases that surfaced, keeping unclaimed money till it went boom,  so selective scamming then full scam.
b) They got enough now and say to themselves they are spending more than they will ever gain
c) The unexpected accident as the guy who is behind this, again, I don't believe it's a team, that multi-sig doesn't matter, he either got in a stupid accident, or got arrested or something else, and the extra guys employed d for support at first responded then saw no news from him and decided it's better to abandon ship out of fear.
d) very low probability, the business was not productive at all, they were losing money, they tried but failed and decided to just drop it and go MIA!

a) Their marketing strategy and timeframe wasn't really enough for such a scam. Nobody would spend tens or hundreds of bitcoin to the address of such a fresh mixer. This strategy may work for a company that's at least 1 year old with still ongoing intense marketing on many places. They also had 40K DAI in escrow. I don't think this service was intended for scam from the beginning.

b) Mixing business is probably one of the most profitable business out there. You get tons of volume and charge 1-5% from each transaction, don't have big expenses and don't pay taxes. This is ideal business for long-term profit. Probably they really got enough because they financially failed.

c) Team is a buzzword used by a single individual. It was probably run by an individual who had hired some people for FE/BE staff.

d) I think that version is the most possible reason. The ration of spend/outcome was probably very bad, they were spending more but were getting less. The outcome from marketing and project probably didn't meet their expectation and they gave up on it or weren't able to keep it. Does anyone know what were their reserves? How much coins were they holding and/or what was the max amount one could try to mix?

[nioctib_100]

I'm going to add a conspiracy theory for fun

The press release is full of phishing links... except Whirlwind's link.

When you buy a PR to advertise all scams you run, what's the use to advertise a legit business?

Most of them are fake links, but not all of them. Most of them end in the .top domain, although the Whirlwind and Mixero links seem to be legit. I don't get the vibe that Whirlwind paid for that press release though. It really seems more like a press release promoting the mixer blog site that sponsored the post.

This whole thing really doesn't smell like a scam. If Whirlwind was making 1 - 3% profit on each transaction, did they profit more than what they gave up in the DAI escrow?

[NotATether]

For weeks i called this guy out and was consistently attacked. I lost $200 but im so sorry for people that lost more.

But the forum has to punish everyone that defended this scam during my callout ..

Did you try asking for a refund from the whirlwind collateral per this message?

Alright so I'll try and make this as simple as possible. If you have funds on whirlwind or if you made a withdraw after the 9th of August and haven't received it yet, please fill out the below form and send it as a PM to either myself or to @minerjones and we'll compile it in a list and then refund users from the escrowed amount. Repayments will be made in DAI on the ERC-20 network.

Code:

Bitcointalk Profile Link: 
whirlwind note Private key | LoG of withdraw: 
Amount owed in BTC: 
DAI (ERC-20) Address for repayment: 

Please allow some time to handle all of this, but the sooner you'd send yours in the better. I already received some PM's regarding this and if you could follow the above formula that'd be appreciated as my inbox will explode and I might not reply to all of you in a timely manner but I will record all information sent.

Not sure what LoG of withdraw means but since you don't have a note, maybe if you can prove by block explorer that you sent money to a whirlwind address, then you might be eligible for a repayment.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

I wanted attention? or maybe i just wanted my fucking money .. retard

Sorry, I meant if you were able to receive the positive attention then you would get justice. May be you have a chance now. As far as I read it was $200 or something. Like other member suggested, prove that you sent the coin to Whirlwind. Blockexplorer have transaction history.

Although it will be hard to verity if you were able to withdraw it or not. But since you were seeking for it even before the scam was unfolded, I would like to give you the benefit of doubt.

[LoyceV]

Did you try asking for a refund from the whirlwind collateral per this message?

Stormbounty was told to ask for the escrow's ruling months ago.

Not sure what LoG of withdraw means but since you don't have a note, maybe if you can prove by block explorer that you sent money to a whirlwind address, then you might be eligible for a repayment.

He couldn't prove it.

[FatFork]

Not sure what LoG of withdraw means but since you don't have a note, maybe if you can prove by block explorer that you sent money to a whirlwind address, then you might be eligible for a repayment.

He couldn't prove it.

From what I remember about his case, he lost access to his note because he allegedly kept the wrong private key (from a new browser session). As a result, he can't prove that he didn't receive the funds back because he doesn't have either the private key of the note or the withdrawal LoG. All he has is a deposit LoG. But, given the current situation, even if he is lying, and actually has the private key of his note, he is no longer able to withdraw his funds.

Now, I'm not exactly sure who should make the call here, but I'd suggest giving the guy his money back, if anything's left in escrow, regardless of his mistakes. After all, his money ended up with whirlwind, and it's not like the casino situation where folks knowingly gamble away their money.

[LoyceV]

he can't prove that he didn't receive the funds back because he doesn't have either the private key of the note or the withdrawal LoG. All he has is a deposit LoG. But, given the current situation, even if he is lying, and actually has the private key of his note, he is no longer able to withdraw his funds.

Now, I'm not exactly sure who should make the call here, but I'd suggest giving the guy his money back, if anything's left in escrow, regardless of his mistakes. After all, his money ended up with whirlwind, and it's not like the casino situation where folks knowingly gamble away their money.

You may be on to something. One of the reasons he couldn't get a refund, was because if he's lying and still has the private key, he could claim it twice. Or someone else could show up with the private key.
Since the site is gone now, the only possibility would be if he withdrew already while complaining here. But if that would be the case, wouldn't WWM have noticed that and called him out on that?

[FatFork]

he can't prove that he didn't receive the funds back because he doesn't have either the private key of the note or the withdrawal LoG. All he has is a deposit LoG. But, given the current situation, even if he is lying, and actually has the private key of his note, he is no longer able to withdraw his funds.

Now, I'm not exactly sure who should make the call here, but I'd suggest giving the guy his money back, if anything's left in escrow, regardless of his mistakes. After all, his money ended up with whirlwind, and it's not like the casino situation where folks knowingly gamble away their money.

You may be on to something. One of the reasons he couldn't get a refund, was because if he's lying and still has the private key, he could claim it twice. Or someone else could show up with the private key.
Since the site is gone now, the only possibility would be if he withdrew already while complaining here. But if that would be the case, wouldn't WWM have noticed that and called him out on that?

I'm not 100% sure, but I think whirlwind once confirmed that his note is still funded. I will try and find that quote.

[edit] Here it is:

We explained that from our point of view this situation is no different than any other where the user doesn't have access to his private key - you lose it, you lose access to your funds. If you contact us with the same kind of situation you will get a reply saying we cannot help. The balance will remain on the Note and will be available to withdraw if you ever find the private key.

Even though this reply was meant for another member, the conversation still revolved around stormbounty's case. So, I believe this suggests that his note still held funds back then. July 4th also marked the final appearance of whirlwind on the forum.

[LoyceV]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think whirlwind once confirmed that his note is still funded.

Either way, stormbounty will have to talk to the escrow instead of complaining here.

[JollyGood]

If something bad happened to the person/team behind Whirlwind rendering them unable to work or post it did not stop them from communicating with Hhampuz telling him they would be fixing the issue upon their return. The fact the Whirlwind forum representative was very articulate in presenting and debating makes this one of those projects that will always leave us wondering what really took place behind the scenes.

Their Whirlwind website should have given them several times more than the $40,000 they deposited in the escrow to make an exit-scam worthwhile because any profit would have to take that loss in to account. We do not know how much they made from abandoning the project. In the near future I hope we do have some clarity regarding the facts rather than speculation. One thing is clear, if they returned to the forum they will probably be caught out if any similarities are spotted.

There is definitely something strange about Whirlwind. The way they arrived in the forum with an innovative mixing idea and then abandoned it, something seems strange especially with the manner they left behind the $40,000 deposit.

Let's think as a scammer, your main goal is to scam the most money, so now regular users of the forum are aware of your scam and they will no longer use your service, but everyone else who isn't active here and isn't lucky enough to read all the updates doesn't know, so in order to scam even more people you would want to

1-Fix the clearnet
2-Make some withdrawals from the multisig (to addresses you own) to make things seem normal
3-Change the color of the main banner on your website

Basically, anything that would make anyone attempting to use your service more comfortable so you can scam more and more money, if you don't do that, then it's one of four.

1- Stupid (obviously not the case here we know WW person here was pretty smart)
2- You feel bad and don't want to scam more people (would bet my first born that no scammer would do that) p.s you would just shut down the whole service if this was the case.
3-You are not a scammer and something bad actually happened to you.
4-You are indeed a scammer BUT something bad actually happened to you.

Anyway, it's fun to hear all the different thoughts on this, we all are just speculating (for fun and curiosity I suppose), we may know the truth at one point, or maybe not.