[ANN] Whirlwind.money | ⚡No Fee⚡ | Ultimate Privacy | Anonymity Mining 12% APR🔥

[stormbounty]

IF support doesn't reply after 5 days, can I now call it a scam?
Or is 5 day not enough too??

You did not get a reply because we simply ignore support requests where users forget or don't save their private keys, this was the general consensus when we had the same issue a few weeks ago.

If somehow the community thinks this situation is different and it warrants a refund, then as always we have no problem doing it as long as it doesn't open the door to other types of abuse later on.

Of course, someone can say that you need to be patient, but I used to like this mixer for its efficiency and speed, but now it is turning into something extremely slow and sluggish. I hope all these problems will be solved soon.

Was your issue resolved? If not please DM or send an e-mail to support. We use lots of servers and Tor circuits sometimes break creating delays, if these issues are more common lately we will make some improvements so it doesn't happen anymore, or at least not this often. Also our clearnet version has been DDoSd continuously for more than 10 days now so that's why it throws errors sometimes.

I guess this is just an unlucky situation that @whirlwindmoney is absent currently.

We are not absent, our e-mail response time is usually under 6 hours, and at most 24 hours in exceptional cases. We simply thought that this situation was discussed already and clear for everyone and that's why we did not reply to this specific user.

So basically the question is, again: should we refund if the user only has the guarantee letter but not the private key, or should we stick to the rule that if you lose the private key you lose access to your funds?

What if we refund this user based on the guarantee letter and then we receive another support request from 'someone else' with the same guarantee letter while also having the private key telling us that he doesn't see his balance on Whirlwind anymore and accuses us of scamming? Do we refund that user as well?

We understand it may be frustrating when unfortunate things like this happen, but like we said the last time we really need to draw a clear line and agree on some 'procedures', otherwise we'll solve this issue today and have another one pop out immediately.

I will give you the deposit wallet private key, how about that, what more can I do to prove I sent this, I quickly posted here and sent a support email the same hour after the deposit was made. I still have the tab open and can prove anything you want. Jesus

No it would not be sufficient for anything and to go through all that hassle just because someone using their service has made a series of errors is not productive nor a good signal to send out to others who use the service incorrectly.

Having said that, the letter of guarantee is sufficient and the address within it should be the address the rightful owner is capable of signing a message. If the owner cannot sign a message from the address because it was going to a coinjoin address, the owner should not have his mistakes paid for by Whirlwind. What would happen if Whirlwind paid him for his mistake and then a few days later another member presented the same letter of guarantee along with a signed address claiming he is the rightful owner?

If the circumstances surrounding stormbounty losing his private key are correct, he will have to both take and accept the loss and then move forward. If he wants to use Whirlwind again he will have to keep in mind how it works otherwise he should use the services of an alternative he finds more convenient.

oh come on, i'm still on the page, no other mixer does this, none, if i left the page and returned it would have been different, i watched the deposit come in, yet i cant withdraw.

So do you still have the page open currently?

Wouldn't that be a sufficient way to prove that @stormbounty is for sure the rightful owner of this note if you say screenshare/livestream to whirlwind support and they can actually confirm?

Because signing is not possible with the wallet i used I will produce the private key, so how about that. Still not sufficient?

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[LoyceV]

You did not get a reply because we simply ignore support requests where users forget or don't save their private keys, this was the general consensus when we had the same issue a few weeks ago.

My opinion is that you should still reply to received support emails, and write him at least one simple explanation, this can even be general reply email.

Agreed. It's unlikely for all users to read everything on Bitcointalk.

What if we refund this user based on the guarantee letter and then we receive another support request from 'someone else' with the same guarantee letter while also having the private key telling us that he doesn't see his balance on Whirlwind anymore and accuses us of scamming? Do we refund that user as well?

How can there be two (or more) exact same letters of guarantee?
(Not counting that someone hacks in user computer and steals the original document).

It could have been a hack as you say, but it could also be the person with the LoG pretends to be someone else. It could also be the website itself claiming to have received the LoG by someone else already, and there's no way for the user to confirm this. Either way, it's opening up a can of worms.

As an extreme solution to prove how important this money is to me right now I can fully DOX..  What more do you need @whirlwind.money

There's no need to DOX yourself, and it doesn't help your case either.

I've just sent the private key to support email.

That was dumb. In Bitcoin, ownership is proven by signing a message, not by sharing a private key. Now you're no longer the only owner of that address.

[stormbounty]

Dude, I cant sign a message, what more can I do, wdf

You did not get a reply because we simply ignore support requests where users forget or don't save their private keys, this was the general consensus when we had the same issue a few weeks ago.

My opinion is that you should still reply to received support emails, and write him at least one simple explanation, this can even be general reply email.

Agreed. It's unlikely for all users to read everything on Bitcointalk.

What if we refund this user based on the guarantee letter and then we receive another support request from 'someone else' with the same guarantee letter while also having the private key telling us that he doesn't see his balance on Whirlwind anymore and accuses us of scamming? Do we refund that user as well?

How can there be two (or more) exact same letters of guarantee?
(Not counting that someone hacks in user computer and steals the original document).

It could have been a hack as you say, but it could also be the person with the LoG pretends to be someone else. It could also be the website itself claiming to have received the LoG by someone else already, and there's no way for the user to confirm this. Either way, it's opening up a can of worms.

As an extreme solution to prove how important this money is to me right now I can fully DOX..  What more do you need @whirlwind.money

There's no need to DOX yourself, and it doesn't help your case either.

I've just sent the private key to support email.

That was dumb. In Bitcoin, ownership is proven by signing a message, not by sharing a private key. Now you're no longer the only owner of that address.

[LoyceV]

Dude, I cant sign a message, what more can I do, wdf

What you should have done, is import the private key into a wallet that supports transaction signing. Ideally, Electrum running on LIVE Linux offline, but since the address is empty, a hot wallet would have worked too.

[stormbounty]

I dont have use for the wallet anymore, I have withdrawn my remaining money to a new address, so yea, the admins can scrutinise the wallet themselves since letter of guarantee is not sufficient, I'm exhausted and very tired.

Admin has refused to reply support email and i'm getting support from the forum. I'm just trying to resolve this so i can move on with my life, but now the admin is also using me to farm engagement too it seems.....

[sam00]

but now the admin is also using me to farm engagement too it seems.....

I doubt that the discussion being held here is what they are looking for when it comes to advertisement/engagement.
They have an active signature campaign and would probably prefer you had not made that mistake...

Your mistake is essentially costing time and resources that could be spent on developement.

To assume they are trying to gain at advantage out of this situation seems uncalled for in my opinion.

None the less I hope you get your coins back and understand your frustration.

[mikeywith]

I don't think that the conclusion "Most people who use mixers probably know how to safely generate a private key" should be taken lightly, It's evident that many still don't understand the importance of keeping PKs really private. One user has just applied for a signature campaign, publicly publishing the private key.
Although everything is clearly indicated in the whirlwind.money page, it is evident that it still needs to be emphasized even more.

Bitcointalk Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1226849
Current amount of posts:    3329
EARNED merit in the last 120 days: 37
whirlwind.money Public Note address for Payouts: ww-Ky5Zgxs54x2pNdnZk5KqJG251h9gyqKfi1BsMbDGELiE71L4rozE

Apparently, he replaced it with a new deposit address after the suggestion of another member.

The example you posted above isn't related to people who use mixers, that user was 'applying for a signature campaign' that happens to be for a mixing service, it's very likely that he doesn't use mixers, which is fine, but my statement was for those who actually use mixers, I doubt that the % of people who actually mix their coins don't understand what private key or how to generate one using a wallet.

Also, that conclusion should be read in context, when you use Whirlwind you have to deal with a private key one way or the other, you either generate it using the front end of Whirlwind's website, or using another wallet like Electrum or even a mobile wallet, the end result is the same (you get a private key), but the possibility of losing it is a lot higher when you rely on your memory to help you save the private key before you close the browser or hit "next".

Furthermore, when the user copies the private key from Whirlwind website, they are most likely going to save it as plain text on their computer, while if they generate a private key using a proper wallet, that private key will be encrypted, you don't have to save, and even if you lose your computer you still have access to the private key assuming you have backed up your wallet.

So now even if we were to assume that the majority of people who use mixers DON'T know how to safely generate a private key, they are still better of take that risk than risk 1- not saving their private key generated on browser 2- losing that private key 3- the key is exposed in plain text.

Dude, I cant sign a message, what more can I do, wdf

But you said you have the private key, if you do, you can sign a message, just because the wallet you use doesn't allow you to use that, it means nothing, check this https://reinproject.org/bitcoin-signature-tool/#sign , repo > https://github.com/weex/bitcoin-signature-tool

I have not checked the code but you can easily find some trusted tools which you could use offline to sign a message, you could also import that private key to a proper wallet and then sign the message.

[stormbounty]

but now the admin is also using me to farm engagement too it seems.....

I doubt that the discussion being held here is what they are looking for when it comes to advertisement/engagement.
They have an active signature campaign and would probably prefer you had not made that mistake...

Your mistake is essentially costing time and resources that could be spent on developement.

To assume they are trying to gain at advantage out of this situation seems uncalled for in my opinion.

None the less I hope you get your coins back and understand your frustration.

I got zero replies in private, zero, not even an auto responder

But immediately it got eyes here days later he replies, now he will drag this out for a long time because I will never stop till I get the money back which is exactly what he wants. I have no other way to solve my needs except those coins, I won’t get another salary till 4 weeks , so this is my second job now.

[sam00]

now he will drag this out for a long time because I will never stop till I get the money back which is exactly what he wants.

As it has been said before, they won't be making any decisions while the service is still centralized that would damage their integrity in such a way, which is completely understandable.

I will quote this for you:

Thank you everyone for your responses, it's an unfortunate situation but there is nothing we can do without setting dangerous precedents or jeopardizing our integrity and we simply cannot afford to risk any of the 2 outcomes happening. This business is all about trust and the moment it's gone, it's gone for good.

As long as Whirlwind is centralized we will not make any decisions that could be considered questionable in any way, and if we will ever encounter another situation where we're not sure what the best course of action is we will use the same approach and let the community decide what needs to happen and we will respect that consensus regardless of our personal beliefs. We are working towards decentralizing the service so this is how things should work anyways.

They are actively reaching out to the community and I don't think that throwing around accusations will help with your case.

I will never stop till I get the money back which is exactly what he wants. I have no other way to solve my needs except those coins, I won’t get another salary till 4 weeks , so this is my second job now.

Good luck. You could try getting a loan if you urgently need that money.

[stormbounty]

now he will drag this out for a long time because I will never stop till I get the money back which is exactly what he wants.

As it has been said before, they won't be making any decisions while the service is still centralized that would damage their integrity in such a way, which is completely understandable.

I will quote this for you:

Thank you everyone for your responses, it's an unfortunate situation but there is nothing we can do without setting dangerous precedents or jeopardizing our integrity and we simply cannot afford to risk any of the 2 outcomes happening. This business is all about trust and the moment it's gone, it's gone for good.

As long as Whirlwind is centralized we will not make any decisions that could be considered questionable in any way, and if we will ever encounter another situation where we're not sure what the best course of action is we will use the same approach and let the community decide what needs to happen and we will respect that consensus regardless of our personal beliefs. We are working towards decentralizing the service so this is how things should work anyways.

They are actively reaching out to the community and I don't think that throwing around accusations will help with your case.

I will never stop till I get the money back which is exactly what he wants. I have no other way to solve my needs except those coins, I won’t get another salary till 4 weeks , so this is my second job now.

Good luck. You could try getting a loan if you urgently need that money.

I already got a loan to replace the funds, now I have to pay that loan and medical bills.


Alright I have watched a YouTube video on how to sign using electrum, what message do I sign? To which address?

Support didn’t even attempt to make me sign a message, they just totally ignored my support request, up till NOW!! Not a good look , not a good look at ALLLL, I am surprised a lot of their signature campaign members are defending this behavior, this is not a goood look.

Out of over 5 emails to customer support I got replies for ZERO, in 2 days it will be 1 week since the first message

[dkbit98]

I will give you the deposit wallet private key, how about that, what more can I do to prove I sent this, I quickly posted here and sent a support email the same hour after the deposit was made. I still have the tab open and can prove anything you want. Jesus

If they didn't reply to any of your emails (I don't think this is a good behavior like I said), than I don't see what's the point in sending them your private keys 
I hope you learned an important lesson from your own mistake, and next time be extra careful when you use any mixing service.
There are some grey areas with whirlwind, but most is related with user mistakes that can be intentional sometimes.
And btw most of the neutral people from bitcointalk voted to for WhirlWind not to refund funds in cases like this.

Out of over 5 emails to customer support I got replies for ZERO, in 2 days it will be 1 week since the first message

Put yourself in their position, if they start to reply and refund everyone who makes mistakes, they could compromise their security model and potentially get attacked by someone.

[Hhampuz]

@stormbounty, I too wish the world would revolve around me. I have nothing to do with this other than sharing my opinion on it.

And for what it's worth my opinion stands, if you lose the private key, you lose the funds. At this point I'm not even entirely sure what to make of you, or your situation. You said you just sent them a private key to your personal wallet over email - very bad..

[stormbounty]

I will give you the deposit wallet private key, how about that, what more can I do to prove I sent this, I quickly posted here and sent a support email the same hour after the deposit was made. I still have the tab open and can prove anything you want. Jesus

If they didn't reply to any of your emails (I don't think this is a good behavior like I said), than I don't see what's the point in sending them your private keys  
I hope you learned an important lesson from your own mistake, and next time be extra careful when you use any mixing service.
There are some grey areas with whirlwind, but most is related with user mistakes that can be intentional sometimes.
And btw most of the neutral people from bitcointalk voted to for WhirlWind not to refund funds in cases like this.

Out of over 5 emails to customer support I got replies for ZERO, in 2 days it will be 1 week since the first message

Put yourself in their position, if they start to reply and refund everyone who makes mistakes, they could compromise their security model and potentially get attacked by someone.

They left me in the dark, I wasnt even human enough to deserve a reply.

I have had issues with other services, I got instant replies on sparrow (over 1 million users) samourai replied within 10 minutes , Chipmixer max took 24 hours in my experience

But this service is hell bent on changing the UX flow we are used to , in order to steal money with plausible deniability. 5 DAYS AND ZERO REPLY

I deposited money with the service and you all are telling me I am wasting the devs time by requesting i am treated like a human enough to at least get a reply. SHAME ON ALL OF YOU THIEVES

@stormbounty, I too wish the world would revolve around me. I have nothing to do with this other than sharing my opinion on it.

And for what it's worth my opinion stands, if you lose the private key, you lose the funds. At this point I'm not even entirely sure what to make of you, or your situation. You said you just sent them a private key to your personal wallet over email - very bad..

How else could I prove i sent the money if the previous wallet wasnt letting me sign, You all should come down on your high horses, sometimes remember this space isnt newbie friendly and it shouldnt be an excuse to scam the newbies, and that the service had hosting issues around the time this happened which caused the private note mix up IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!

You all are giving me zero grace, its shameful

[LoyceV]

Who I should I sign to?  to which bitcoin address? What is the message body?

Write what's relevant:

"Today is June 29, 2023.
I, user stormbounty on Bitcointalk, sent xx Bitcoin from the signing address to WWM's address yy."

Then add the LoG to make complete.

[stormbounty]

5 WHOLE DAYS AND YOU ARE ALL EXCUSING THIS SHIT... DISGRACEFULL

[sam00]

5 WHOLE DAYS AND YOU ARE ALL EXCUSING THIS SHIT... DISGRACEFULL

At this point and with the attitude you have shown towards us, I would be surprised if you get this resolved. I feel bad for the people having to deal with this.
You made a mistake. Don't you understand what it means to refund you in this situation?
This is so delicate and yet you behave like this.

Maybe you are trolling after all

[stormbounty]

Signature: IFLCjMrIJCAbORRE2rbhd3eQ16J2LUCJT3NpDfhFFeogAHpQvQd+2beiXQbqF+0hfnelQJZI+0WwQ7Znbqxt8Q4=

Message: Today is June 29, 2023.  I, user stormbounty on Bitcointalk,  send 0.008 Bitcoin from the signing address to WWM's address bc1qkf6knnzvnu2h47g8wa7h4hx7k3vm8tcqyc27xy Please help.

Address: bc1q7vr2ge5392zp3rwn6q60skp98dlce7au8qaztv

5 WHOLE DAYS AND YOU ARE ALL EXCUSING THIS SHIT... DISGRACEFULL

At this point and with the attitude you have shown towards us, I would be surprised if you get this resolved. I feel bad for the people having to deal with this.
You made a mistake. Don't you understand what it means to refund you in this situation?
This is so delicate and yet you behave like this.

Maybe you are trolling after all

I still have NOT gotten a reply from support 5 days after. and this is what you think?Huh

 sad , this is sad on so many levels, is it because you have money ?? or because you can never make this kind of mistake so it is funny to you?  you now treat people like shit??

Humanity is doomed, you should be ashamed. My suffering is trolling to you?

Who I should I sign to?  to which bitcoin address? What is the message body?

Write what's relevant:

"Today is June 29, 2023.
I, user stormbounty on Bitcointalk, send xx Bitcoin from the signing address to WWM's address yy."

Then add the LoG to make complete.

Please check sir, I have signed the message, what else do I need to do? I thought signing will require money, so I had to add some money (took some minutes to confirm) but in the end it turns out signing is free

 

hhampuz whirlwindmoney

I am ready to sign the message, I have exported my private key to electrum and have learnt how to sign a bitcoin message, so lets do this once and for all

Who I should I sign to?  to which bitcoin address? What is the message body?



Thank you

LoyceV JollyGood examplens mikeywith dkbit98 sam00 Odusko stompix stormbounty  

Lets see if the customer support is real or just a placeholder, All my support emails remain unacknowledged.

[hosseinimr93]

Signature: IFLCjMrIJCAbORRE2rbhd3eQ16J2LUCJT3NpDfhFFeogAHpQvQd+2beiXQbqF+0hfnelQJZI+0WwQ7Znbqxt8Q4=

Message: Today is June 29, 2023.  I, user stormbounty on Bitcointalk,  send 0.008 Bitcoin from the signing address to WWM's address bc1qkf6knnzvnu2h47g8wa7h4hx7k3vm8tcqyc27xy Please help.

Address: bc1q7vr2ge5392zp3rwn6q60skp98dlce7au8qaztv

The signature is verified and the message proves that you own bc1q7vr2ge5392zp3rwn6q60skp98dlce7au8qaztv, but no transaction has been made from that address to bc1qkf6knnzvnu2h47g8wa7h4hx7k3vm8tcqyc27xy.
The bc1qkf6knnzvnu2h47g8wa7h4hx7k3vm8tcqyc27xy has received 0.007 BTC in a transaction including 7 inputs and none of those 7 addresses is the address you signed message from.

[stormbounty]

Signature: IFLCjMrIJCAbORRE2rbhd3eQ16J2LUCJT3NpDfhFFeogAHpQvQd+2beiXQbqF+0hfnelQJZI+0WwQ7Znbqxt8Q4=

Message: Today is June 29, 2023.  I, user stormbounty on Bitcointalk,  send 0.008 Bitcoin from the signing address to WWM's address bc1qkf6knnzvnu2h47g8wa7h4hx7k3vm8tcqyc27xy Please help.

Address: bc1q7vr2ge5392zp3rwn6q60skp98dlce7au8qaztv

The signature is verified and the message proves that you own bc1q7vr2ge5392zp3rwn6q60skp98dlce7au8qaztv, but no transaction has been made from that address to bc1qkf6knnzvnu2h47g8wa7h4hx7k3vm8tcqyc27xy.
The bc1qkf6knnzvnu2h47g8wa7h4hx7k3vm8tcqyc27xy has received 0.007 BTC in a transaction including 7 inputs and none of addresses is the address you signed message from.

Go back one more layer, you will see my address, Like i said in a previous post I used a privacy wallet.

start here please - here it was split to 7-8 wallets
https://mempool.space/tx/1d686510d1cf9d0f2445fac24b15d8e679f17b0a3291d87c7fc41dc95e4f168b

Please check Image for clarity

then example of one of the 8 or so wallets
https://mempool.space/tx/cda4514ee5262e2903b35d2d9030fba0c6bc1897237bb689dda913a447678d49

[LoyceV]

Go back one more layer, you will see my address, Like i said in a previous post I used a privacy wallet.

You really made it difficult to prove anything you did!