[ANN] Whirlwind.money | ⚡No Fee⚡ | Ultimate Privacy | Anonymity Mining 12% APR🔥

[dkbit98]

I don't understand why people are so obsessed with the 12% APR. If they had the money to run the most profitable signature campaign, leave $40k as collateral, charged absolutely zero for mixing, and carried a shitload amount of money to begin with as we saw, then it doesn't preclude the possibility that they wanted to attract users via APR.

They certainly attracted several people in forum to leave coins received from signature campaign so they could earn a bit more.
It was suspicious to me when they first released 12% APR and I wrote about that publicly, but this is not huge percentages like we saw in regular scams.

Let me enter Speculation Station now,
I don't want to vindicate whirlwind or to justify what happened with them, but I noticed several people mentioned about similarities with Tornado cash service, and we know that escrow funds was deposited in DAI tokens on ethereum blockchain.
Now I saw one interesting news posted few days ago about recently arrested Tornado Cash co-founder Roman Storm, while fellow co-founder Roman Semenov remains at large, and he is added to the list of US sanctioned individuals.
It's not impossible to think there was some connection with whirlwind, and this could be one of the reasons for their/his absence and for service not working anymore.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/tornado-cash-founders-charged-money-laundering-and-sanctions-violations

We may never know if there was any connection or nor, but I would like to know the truth, one way or another.

[1714280402]

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[1714280402]

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[NotATether]

I don't understand why people are so obsessed with the 12% APR. If they had the money to run the most profitable signature campaign, leave $40k as collateral, charged absolutely zero for mixing, and carried a shitload amount of money to begin with as we saw, then it doesn't preclude the possibility that they wanted to attract users via APR.

Maybe because it was eerily similar to Celsius' APR rates: https://bitcompare.net/platforms/celsius-network .

10+% APR is very unstable and that means you are doing some high-risk, liquidity-wise, financial activity to sustain that rate. It obviously must be paid from profit because if you just take that money off of reserves, eventually there will be no more money to do this.

That set off alarm bells inside me that gave me the suspicion that this program would not be profitable (and I did tell them that), but I never thought they would pull an exit scam on the whole mixer like this, especially after they were discussing on the forum about how to best implement privacy for their service, avatar design contest etc.

[FatFork]

Let me enter Speculation Station now,
I don't want to vindicate whirlwind or to justify what happened with them, but I noticed several people mentioned about similarities with Tornado cash service, and we know that escrow funds was deposited in DAI tokens on ethereum blockchain.
Now I saw one interesting news posted few days ago about recently arrested Tornado Cash co-founder Roman Storm, while fellow co-founder Roman Semenov remains at large, and he is added to the list of US sanctioned individuals.
It's not impossible to think there was some connection with whirlwind, and this could be one of the reasons for their/his absence and for service not working anymore.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/tornado-cash-founders-charged-money-laundering-and-sanctions-violations

We may never know if there was any connection or nor, but I would like to know the truth, one way or another.

Interesting theory. There was also a third person, Alexey Pertsev, who isn't mentioned in the indictment. If I'm not mistaken, he was arrested last year in the Netherlands where he spent some time in prison, got released early this year, and now he's waiting for his trial.

[Rikafip]

Now I saw one interesting news posted few days ago about recently arrested Tornado Cash co-founder Roman Storm, while fellow co-founder Roman Semenov remains at large, and he is added to the list of US sanctioned individuals.
It's not impossible to think there was some connection with whirlwind, and this could be one of the reasons for their/his absence and for service not working anymore.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/tornado-cash-founders-charged-money-laundering-and-sanctions-violations

The same thought crossed my mind when I saw that news since I also read about similarities between ww and Tornado, but would those who are on the run or are connected to those who are on the run start another mixer service instead of laying low for some time until things cool off?

That seems like a common sense to me, then again common sense is not so common.

[dkbit98]

Interesting theory. There was also a third person, Alexey Pertsev, who isn't mentioned in the indictment. If I'm not mistaken, he was arrested last year in the Netherlands where he spent some time in prison, got released early this year, and now he's waiting for his trial.

Yeah I heard about that, I think he was one of developers who worked on code.
Governments don't like when someone is doing things they don't like, only they can hire hackers to work for them and wash money all the time  

The same thought crossed my mind when I saw that news since I also read about similarities between ww and Tornado, but would those who are on the run or are connected to those who are on the run start another mixer service instead of laying low for some time until things cool off?

They obviously knew that end days of Tornado is coming soon, so maybe they tried to transition to something new.
It's not only similarities in design, some of you may remember that one of the last messages from man behind WW was plans for introducing of ETH and XMR, and working more on decentralization.
I could be totally wrong about this, and I don't have any insider information

[BenCodie]

I don't understand why people are so obsessed with the 12% APR. If they had the money to run the most profitable signature campaign, leave $40k as collateral, charged absolutely zero for mixing, and carried a shitload amount of money to begin with as we saw, then it doesn't preclude the possibility that they wanted to attract users via APR.

Because it's a scam tactic?

Everything else you mentioned is bait to get people into the service and probably stems from previous scams.

They didn't have the money to run the most profitable campaign in the long run - this just built instant trust and lured people in to advertise the scam.
$40k collateral? If it yields even 10℅ in net profits (net scam profits) then that's no problem for a previous scammer/group.
Charging zero for mixing? Red flag. lol.
8BTC to begin with ... Great, but that would have just come from the last scam.

That's a bit extreme. More like you'd just get paid less to advertise more legitimate campaigns.

I'm yet to understand how is this legitimacy measured. Presenting yourself as the superior custodial mixer, about to introduce blinded bearer certificates, backed by significant collateral, and employing one of the most reliable campaign managers, had successfully and convincingly passed my test of legitimacy.

"Legitimacy score/level" starts with the nature of the business, then it's operations.
- Services which do not take custody of peoples coins for extended periods of time (as centralized exchanges, mixers, casinos commonly do) and that are more transactional = higher legitimacy score
- Services which do not pray on the demise of the end user (casinos) = more ethical, and thus likely to be more legitimate toward users
- Services/businesses which provide an instant good/service = more legitimate (more transactional, you buy, you receive, end of transaction)

Obviously you've been so lost in the mixer & casino sauce that you've lost touch of the aspects of a truly legitimate business lol

As for you being apparently tricked - if they're your checks - your checks are SHIT.
- Code is not open source
- Protocol is not decentralized
- Custody is kept (who gives a shit about a newbie's promises?)
- Creator was a newbie who could talk somewhat technically (is that really a legitimacy indicator?)
- On-chain traces showed the mixing was not anymore advanced than any other solution (I pointed this out early on, BTW)

These are 5 red flags I could spit out about WW without even mentioning the "anonymity mining" scam campaign.

[BlackHatCoiner]

My checks are shit. Lmao. 

Bitcointalk Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=404695
Current amount of Posts (Including this one): 1110
EARNED merit in the last 120 days: 218
Bech32 BTC address for payouts: bc1qwq5cv5yuvaffxpe45mcv2kwrjs3c843daxkck2

Re-applying as instructed Hope to work with you Hhampuz & whirlwind!

[nioctib_100]

Well... where do we go from here? I'm seeing a lot of signatures of the OGs who I kind of look up to change to EXCH.ch... and I say this respectfully, but really? I see they've been around for 10 years but didn't we just talk about how there's some responsibility on us to vet what we promote? I know we're all looking for the reputable place to go right now, I mean that's how a lot of us got here after Chipmixer, and isn't it dangerous to be promoting EXCH.ch when they are just so underutilized? I'm open to being convinced otherwise — anyone who knows me knows I'm openminded and all, I guess I'm just at a loss right now on where we go from here. I was super excited about Whirlwind.

[LoyceV]

Well... where do we go from here?

This isn't the right topic to discuss that.

[BenCodie]

My checks are shit. Lmao. 

Bitcointalk Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=404695
Current amount of Posts (Including this one): 1110
EARNED merit in the last 120 days: 218
Bech32 BTC address for payouts: bc1qwq5cv5yuvaffxpe45mcv2kwrjs3c843daxkck2

Re-applying as instructed Hope to work with you Hhampuz & whirlwind!

It's not my responsibility to keep this forum safe. Just like it's not yours, or anyone's. It's clearly optional. if whirlwind are going to pay good money for me to post, then I will. If they pay me to post a review, I will. Innocent until proven guilty...I wouldn't advertise them now.

As for the checks I need to do - the only checks I need to do are for me if I am using the service. Is that selfish? Yes. But how constructive would it have really been if I raised red flags in WW thread or anywhere else? I think it would have caused more drama, or would have taken a lot of effort. Under what basis am I saying this? I called out Boxxob for promoting a multi million dollar casino scam and yet he's still here getting paid to advertise l0tt0, another casino.

Conclusion, and point?

It's not my responsibility to take care of people here...and I definitely won't act as if I am surprised when they run away.

Hence, I'll apply to the campaign - and any other campaign. If people more powerful than me want to make a change, I'll definitely follow. I'm trying to help with the security & privacy board. Otherwise, why should I forego an opportunity that allows me to be rewarded for being a part of a great forum, ultimately supporting an even greater cause?

If you really care or if you're going to be shocked when something happens, or if yo got scammed, then you need to do better checks.

[TryNinja]

So you knew it was a scam but still was willing to advertise it and didn’t even care enough to warn us? Jesus, that’s even worse.

Handsight 20/20, huh? Turns out everybody is suddenly a genius.

[BenCodie]

So you knew it was a scam but still was willing to advertise it and didn’t even care enough to warn us? Jesus, that’s even worse.

Handsight 20/20, huh? Turns out everybody is suddenly a genius.

I had reasons to believe that it was a scam however I, nor anyone who is not an "elite" would have been paid attention to if we were to talk about the red flags, due to how many people (like BlackHatCoiner) would have irrationally defended it and irrationally discussed it due to how much was being paid to members and, maybe even their involvement... That's another consequence of not vetting campaigns, people who get paid will defend it and shadow the ones behind it. Even if I was getting paid, I'd have not defended it. I'd have just enjoyed the opportunity while it lasted while having my reservations.

I made my opinion on the mixing protocol itself because that was factual and provable, it got half-assed rebutted by whirlwin and no one else continued the conversation or paid attention to my post, or I would have contributed more if other users wanted to talk about it - no one did.

I'm not a genius for seeing red flags. I'm sure many others did but, for similar reasons to mine, kept their mouths shut....and, for the sake of not doing what I have to do right now - are continuing to keep their mouth shut.

I didn't wear the signature at any stage...yet I'm a villain for knowing and not pointing out red flags for you all? Despite most probably being ignored because the red flags aren't provable til after the fact? Shame on you for that preposterous jab.

Whether or not I said something, BlackHatCoiner would still be saying the same shit he said in his original post, and everyone who currently has their dick in their hand would still have their dick in their hand, most likely.

Tldr: You should GTFO for calling me worse than the guy who wore the signature, didn't do his due diligence, and endorsed the service as well as getting paid to advertise is. You should rethink your comment tryhardninja and you should also get off BlackHatCoiner's dick.

As for you BlackHatCoiner, you not having anything valid to say except quoting a signature campaign application says enough.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Alright, since this has gone personal, listen up, and listen good.

I'm very much aware of the shit coming from the cryptocurrency space. Nonetheless, there exist legit services which require you to forfeit custody, and you'll have to grasp that part.

Now as for my checks and moral standards, what the actual fuck? Yes, I want to advertise privacy enhancing services, I believe it's a fundamental right, which we fall short in a protocol level. Yes, whirlwind seemed fine to me, they were new to the community, but how the actual fuck do you think the rest of the mixers began their journey? Take a walk into the Services board for me real quick. ChipMixer, CryptoMixer, Sinbad, Yomix. Anonymous newbies setup these, not DT1. Then, they hire a manager to spread the word and build trust. Their ANN threads are like a few weeks older than their sig. campaigns.

Now, let's debunk some real shit.

"Legitimacy score/level" starts with the nature of the business, then it's operations.
- Services which do not take custody of peoples coins for extended periods of time (as centralized exchanges, mixers, casinos commonly do) and that are more transactional = higher legitimacy score
- Services which do not pray on the demise of the end user (casinos) = more ethical, and thus likely to be more legitimate toward users
- Services/businesses which provide an instant good/service = more legitimate (more transactional, you buy, you receive, end of transaction)

Okay, two things.

• Mixers (or at least, mixers I have advertised) don't take custody for an extended period of time. It's all down to you. Do you want to withdraw at the same time you deposit? Good. At this point, they fall into the third category of your moral pyramid.
• Why the fuck are casinos less legit? I didn't get that part. They're obviously in favor of your loss, just as users are in favor of casinos' loss. If the user is somehow having the impression he can take money out of their business, then so does he pray for their loss. The ethical balance is equal.

As for you being apparently tricked - if they're your checks - your checks are SHIT.
- Code is not open source

And neither is the front-end of any mixer we've advertised in this place so far, open-source. (And it needn't to be). Nonetheless, whirlwind had told they would if blinded certificates were implemented.

- Protocol is not decentralized

Lol. Just lol. They're a service.

- Custody is kept (who gives a shit about a newbie's promises?)

Until the newbie deposits an escrow that can cover the damages, in case they disappear. (As it happened)

- Creator was a newbie who could talk somewhat technically (is that really a legitimacy indicator?)

No, money is. The guy may have scammed, but they didn't just appeared out nowhere without a buck, attempting to convince us they've designed the best mixer there is. Escrow talks itself, I won't repeat it.

- On-chain traces showed the mixing was not anymore advanced than any other solution (I pointed this out early on, BTW)

Which, as said by themselves, was done on purpose because there wasn't enough demand. (they had also clarified they weren't on rush)


P.S. Watch your manners. 

[EustormBit]

You my friend is the cheapest person I have ever come accross on the internet. You can sell your conscience and your soul for a pot of porridge

Not sure to whom exactly you are referring from the list you quoted, as there are 3 users in that quote. Besides, perhaps you could try to improve your English a little? Your grammar is the grammar of an underclassman.

The person I referred to wasn’t you.. but if the shoe fits …

[JollyGood]

BenCodie, please review your last few posts (including the ones where you have insulted respected members of the forum) and ask yourself if you have achieved anything constructive by using profanities and insults. I doubt it will help you when you put forward any argument to debate any matter in any walk of life therefore it should not help you here.

Also, would you like to re-think your post about you saying in your opinion you knew Whirlwind was a scam but you did two very interesting things. First, you did not post warnings about it (because you said you were not obliged to) and second, even though in your opinion it was a scam from the very beginning you did not hesitate to apply to join their signature campaign and you would have no problem with participating if you were selected.

That sort of conduct is shocking to say the least if you are stating you believed it was a scam but had no problem wanting to be part of their signature campaign.

[examplens]

I would just add to this theory the possibility that the same people are behind Tornado Cash and whirlwind mixers.
One of the co-founders, Roman Storm was arrested in Washington on 23. August 2023

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/tornado-cash-founders-charged-money-laundering-and-sanctions-violations

The only valid excuse would be that this whole service is run by a single person, and that person is dead, in jail, hospital, or anything that stops him from physically operating the mixer, and that won't be any better than the whole service being a straight-out scam.

There is another hypothesis, which is that the developer of the service has a relationship in one way or another with Tornado Cash. Both services are very similar in terms of name, design, logo and a lot of things. On 10 August 2022, Tornado Cash developer Alexey Pertsev^[1] was arrested.

tornado.cash >> Whirlwind.money >> The same logo >> same UI design

If this is true, then the US Treasury Department has blacklisted the service^[2], and therefore either he was arrested or tried to hide himself, especially since the service did not seem profitable and he did not withdraw $40,000.

If this is the case, it is best to forget about this service (or trying to receive escrow payments) and consider you lost your money.

[1] https://www.fiod.nl/arrest-of-suspected-developer-of-tornado-cash/
[2] https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/recent-actions/20220808

Jollygood, how strange your negative campaign against the Sinbad.io mixer looks now https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5454407

[mikeywith]

Handsight 20/20, huh? Turns out everybody is suddenly a genius.

Yeah, it turned out that many crystal ballers knew for sure WW was going to exit scam except for us the "fools" who advertised it, Ironically, none of them had the balls to warn us, and when it's all said and done, they put on their big boy pants and come here to lecture us.

I didn't wear the signature at any stage

It's because your application was not accepted by the campaign manager (probably for good reasons), had your application been accepted -- you wouldn't be writing these walls of text.

[unibitcoinist]

Jollygood, how strange your negative campaign against the Sinbad.io mixer looks now https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5454407

Now this stupid won't respond to you as he had ignored you in that thread. If you pose a legit question, he won't respond to that question. He was so much confident that Whirlwind will stay here for long. But if the campaign manager was someone other than Hhampuz, this cry baby would say the same for whirlwind as well.

If Sinbad is operated by the Blender team but Coinomize, YoMix and Whirlwind (and others) are not, then the chances are the others will last longer than Sinbad.

Yeah, it turned out that many crystal ballers knew for sure WW was going to exit scam except for us the "fools" who advertised it, Ironically, none of them had the balls to warn us, and when it's all said and done, they put on their big boy pants and come here to lecture us.

While this is true that BenCodie knew nothing, none of you would have heard. The mastermind behind Whirlwind had a deep understanding of the forum and the appropriate starting points. Had the campaign manager not been Hhampuz, some of you would tag the service and probably the campaign manager as well.

[JollyGood]

Jollygood, how strange your negative campaign against the Sinbad.io mixer looks now https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5454407

How strange.

I didn't wear the signature at any stage

It's because your application was not accepted by the campaign manager (probably for good reasons), had your application been accepted -- you wouldn't be writing these walls of text.

I am disappointed at the way BenCodie has stated he was convinced Whirlwind was a scam (and posted flags) yet he tried to join the campaign on the basis he was not obliged to raise concerns. I wrote a post but decided to replace it with a watered down one asking him to reflect on his actions, he has not posted back since.

[Stalker22]

While this is true that BenCodie knew nothing, none of you would have heard. The mastermind behind Whirlwind had a deep understanding of the forum and the appropriate starting points.

Oh, what a genius! Just leave 40k in escrow, which apparently covered all claims, including those from the signature campaign participants. Truly a "mastermind" move, I must say!

Had the campaign manager not been Hhampuz, some of you would tag the service and probably the campaign manager as well.

Nice theory! It would be an absolute masterpiece if you could sprinkle in a little something called evidence to make it truly shine.