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Author Topic: [BBR] Boolberry: Privacy and Security - Guaranteed Since 2014  (Read 1175126 times)
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crypto_zoidberg
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April 21, 2014, 11:37:54 PM
 #21

Could we have a comparison of the differerence between this money and bitmonero, the first derivation of bytecoin (an thus, based on cryptonote technology too)?
Disclaimer: I mine bitmonero.
We have rush time at the moment, so later i'll make a feature comparing list with Bitmonero, but as i know, it does not have any major changes, only different emission curve and target block time, correct me if i wrong. On the other hand - fewer changes make the less chance to break something! Anyway, wish a luck to Bitmonero, it is good that someone else believe in CryptoNote.

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April 21, 2014, 11:42:58 PM
 #22

I agree the first of these to make a wallet we are used to working with not all this command line stuff will be the first one to get to a decent size in terms of cap.


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April 21, 2014, 11:54:44 PM
 #23

Will I be able to keep my HoneyPennies in my HoneyPot?

Sorry, had to get that out of the way. Seriously though why HoneyPennies? It's just awkward is all.

Also.. why are you asking for arbitrary taxes? 10% to yourselves is a bit much . . but that's not my main issue because you said it was changeable and can be turned off.
About 10%, will try to make it clear: You should know, that quality development is always requires a lot of effort and work part-time is unacceptable for any serious project.
And you've all seen how much forks was launched and abandoned later, for various reasons, but mainly because the developing became economically unfeasible.

We have developed this approach (and we believe it is honest and democratic) to declare  that we are going to work on this project for a long time.
This is our proof that the project will not be abandoned.
Unlike Bitcoin, this technology doesn't even have GUI, so there are A LOT OF work ahead.
We just want to do things we like to do, and we want to earn some money with it. And we not not ashamed of this.

Quote
My main focus is the % you've set aside for CryptoNote. Have you contacted them about that? Do they want a royalty fee? I don't see you've posted on their forum, so I'm just wondering if you're in contact with them at all.
Yes, we communicate with them. As long as our project is in active development now, they have not approve it yet, but they are familiar with our concept and address for royalty was generated by them. But, of course, it doesn't mean anything yet. It is up to CryptoNote.

Quote
Another concern here is that you will be seemingly making significant changes to the source. Have you passed any of the proposed changes through them? It's stated very clearly on their forum that they're both looking for and willing to help new implementations of CN. It would be weird to offer them royalties for something they don't agree with.

Wouldn't reducing the scratchpad and required iterations open this hash wide for easy GPU and ASIC mining? That seems counter-intuitive to what CN wants from what I was reading. I'm a little unclear of how you plan on implementing the hash apart from the short description here, so I'm at a large disadvantage.
We know what we do with the code. If you take a look, you'll se.

About PoW hash i've wrote in another answer:
Quote
We've decided to use blockchain as scratchpad (with salt of course) coupled with fast version of cryptonote hash(or not) (reduced scratchpad to 130kb, and with reduced scratchpad we able to reduce iterations count). It is two-phase hashing - in first we make extra-fast hash to discover pseudo-random data addresses (indexes), and in second: we do actually hash with the salt based on first extra-fast hash. Since blockchain is always grows up we belive that it will be almost imposible to make effective ASIC. On the other hand, it will make mining process effective with complete node, so we killing two birds with one stone - make ASIC-resistant hash and gets more full nodes in network (even with pools).

Hope this is clear. If not - fill free to ask.




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April 22, 2014, 12:01:32 AM
 #24


About 10%, will try to make it clear: You should know, that quality development is always requires a lot of effort and work part-time is unacceptable for any serious project.
And you've all seen how much forks was launched and abandoned later, for various reasons, but mainly because the developing became economically unfeasible.

We have developed this approach (and we believe it is honest and democratic) to declare  that we are going to work on this project for a long time.
This is our proof that the project will not be abandoned.
We just want to do things we like to do, and we want to earn some money with it. And we not not ashamed of this.


I think it's an interesting way to implement a way to keep you involved, and you should absolutely not be ashamed. I just hope that you will be willing and ready, when it comes time, to suggest a recommended percentage. It's no small responsibility, asking for taxes. It requires you to be honest with yourself and everyone . . or at least convince them you are.

What I'm saying is that by making the % changeable based on the miner's choice (this is the approach I'm assuming you're taking -- correct me if i'm wrong), you will need to provide them with definitions of what every percentage that isn't 0 or 10% according to what it means to you. I could only see this working if you're capable of asking for 3.56% tax, or 7.692% tax based on definitions we all come to agree on. No taxation without representation is what's coming to mind -- are you capable of defending your right to demand that which we have every right to refuse?

I've seen a similar approach in MemoryCoin 2. Are you familiar with that? The fact that freetrade manipulated votes and pretty much dropped the coin, in addition to it losing a lot of momentum, when he got voted out is what I'm worried about. What types of parallels/differences do you expect with your coin? I'm just curious is all.

Quote
Yes, we communicate with them. As long as our project is in active development now, they have not approve it yet, but they are familiar with our concept and address for royalty was generated by them. But, of course, it doesn't mean anything yet. It is up to CryptoNote.

Awesome! I hope they like and are capable of furthering your ideas!

Quote
We know what we do with the code. If you take a look, you'll see.

It's tough to track down differences in the original code with the way you brought into your github. As far as I can tell immediately all that was removed was one character, a "-". I see there's more, but it will take time to find the changes.

Quote
We've decided to use blockchain as scratchpad (with salt of course) coupled with fast version of cryptonote hash(or not) (reduced scratchpad to 130kb, and with reduced scratchpad we able to reduce iterations count). It is two-phase hashing - in first we make extra-fast hash to discover pseudo-random data addresses (indexes), and in second: we do actually hash with the salt based on first extra-fast hash. Since blockchain is always grows up we belive that it will be almost imposible to make effective ASIC. On the other hand, it will make mining process effective with complete node, so we killing two birds with one stone - make ASIC-resistant hash and gets more full nodes in network (even with pools).

Hope this is clear. If not - fill free to ask.

Sorry, I must have read that wrong the first time. I did not understand before, but it seems to make more sense now. It's still a little unclear, but I can understand better the source when you're ready.

Thanks for the responses, it's nice to see a pre-ann discussion full of more than "looks nice" or "can't wait for this one".



[/quote]
crypto_zoidberg
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April 22, 2014, 01:11:26 AM
Last edit: April 22, 2014, 10:10:02 AM by crypto_zoidberg
 #25

This defeats the very purpose of CryptoNight. 2 MB is suitable for CPU L3 cache but too much for ASICs, making distribution more even because of accessibility. 400 ms is not a big deal since transaction speed is limited by the block time.
True, we goes with different approach, but to the same goal.
The goal is not to make hash which is perfect for CPU.
The goal is to make "egalitarian proof of work", in other words: to provide almost equal voting rights to all participants.
Now traditionally approach is to have heavy hash-function, which is hard to implement in custom hardware. Cryptonote (CryptoNight) PoW hash(so called "slow_hash") goes on this way. It use some modern instructions sets coupled with memory consuming algorithm. Nowdays 2MB for ASIC seems to be almost impossible, but the world changing so fast now. And this finally could come to the same situation as Litecoin have now.
Our approach is to keep using modern instructions sets, but instead of making big scratchpad and then process whole pad for each hash call, we gonna use blockchain as one big source of random data, and will use pseudo-random parts of it for each hash.Two-phase hashing will protect from pre-calculation of all possible hashes(second phase hash randomly accessed data with salt). Blockchain after year of network's life will be consisited of about 1.5GB random data. In mining process all this data should be randomly accessible - and back to talking about ASICs - even if ASIC calculator for this hash will apear it will be almost impossible to grant paralel  access of huge count of hardware calculators to to big scratchpad- due to DRAM specific.

 
  • Donation-based crowdfunding: the project will not have premine, instamine or other unfair launch. The project has open and transparent model of project financing: part of the emission (10%) is reserved for the development of the project, BUT the rate of emission of these coins will be controled by network participants (miners). Namely, miners will indicate the amount of coins to be given to developers in each block that they found. Maximum donation size for each block is determined by nominal donations formula, based on entire emission formula. This policy allows better communication between community and project development team. Finally if a miner is not happy  - he can reduce donation to zero.
    As a tribute to technology, we have fixed royalty percentage of donation, charged to the founders of Cryptonote.

I don't understand. You've given a number (10%) but also said it can be changed by miners. Is 10% the default that miners must deliberately change?

Good luck with this fork and thanks for supporting merge-mining. I hope to see more CN coins.

10% is maximum donation size in each block. Each miner decide how much to donate himself. It can be 5%, or 9%, or even 0%.

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April 22, 2014, 01:20:44 AM
 #26

I don't get the distribution. How do we acquire this coin? is it by mining?Or through an IPO ?

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crypto_zoidberg
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April 22, 2014, 09:43:24 AM
Last edit: April 22, 2014, 10:08:13 AM by crypto_zoidberg
 #27

Will you release code that compiles on OSX? I am still waiting for both Bytecoin and Bitmonero to do so....

To be honest, you won't be taken seriously until you release binaries, osx source code, and a GUI.
Yes, we will.
If we make osxbuild will you join us?Wink

It is very important to implement all core features before the network will start, to avoid so painful hard-forks, which has become a norm in most irresponsible forks. So now we really focused on this core features.

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April 22, 2014, 12:56:00 PM
Last edit: April 22, 2014, 01:27:01 PM by crypto_zoidberg
 #28

It seems that we are the first who submitted project to Cryptonote:
https://forum.cryptonote.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=68

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April 22, 2014, 01:38:54 PM
 #29

It seems that we are the first who submitted project to Cryptonote:
https://forum.cryptonote.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=68


A more than reassuring example of your willingness to take a proactive stance in this fork. Thank you!
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April 22, 2014, 01:40:43 PM
 #30

hmmmm .... darkcoin?

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cocoakrispies
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April 22, 2014, 02:10:36 PM
 #31

hmmmm .... darkcoin?

No, this is the HoneyPenny thread. Were you looking for DarkCoin? It's forum is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.0

You can trade for DarkCoin here: https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/155

And their site forum is here: https://www.darkcointalk.org/

They have a very active and dedicated community that can help you with whatever questions you may have.
crypto_zoidberg
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April 23, 2014, 12:26:15 AM
 #32

Good news:
1. Updated and fixed coretests with new blockciain-based hash
2. Added mix attribute to tx out and network rules to grant requried level of mixin in ring signature.
3. Added graph with tx check by daemon (ring signature check):

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April 23, 2014, 12:28:02 AM
 #33

I don't get the distribution. How do we acquire this coin? is it by mining?

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April 23, 2014, 02:25:22 AM
 #34

I don't get the distribution. How do we acquire this coin? is it by mining?

Yeah, CPU mining like Bytecoin (BCN not BTE)/ BitMonero.

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April 23, 2014, 08:05:11 PM
 #35

I don't get the distribution. How do we acquire this coin? is it by mining?
Added emission graph to announce.

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April 23, 2014, 09:59:17 PM
 #36

Good news:
1. Implemented transaction outs with guaranteed anonymity.
2. Changed emission curve similar to bitcoin

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April 24, 2014, 04:19:28 AM
 #37

Ummm…. don't mind me. I'm just wondering if this is mineable with an ATI graphics card. You guys can go back to drawing balloons and troops strategy after that Tongue
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April 24, 2014, 07:33:39 AM
 #38

Ummm…. don't mind me. I'm just wondering if this is mineable with an ATI graphics card. You guys can go back to drawing balloons and troops strategy after that Tongue
Hope not Wink it is CPU mineable.

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April 24, 2014, 06:21:14 PM
 #39

Ummm…. don't mind me. I'm just wondering if this is mineable with an ATI graphics card. You guys can go back to drawing balloons and troops strategy after that Tongue
Hope not Wink it is CPU mineable.
+1
Hope it stays CPU only for a long time.  Will there be gui wallat at start? If so , that would be great, and your coin could get huge advantage over bitmonero and bytecoin. Also pools after few days of launch would be awesome. Wish you the best luck, and also I like the name. Hope that some day I will see:"HoneyPenny accepted here"  Grin
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April 25, 2014, 05:52:45 PM
 #40

Sorry for long waiting for answer.

Correct me if i'm wrong but on summary these are the biggest changes
1. The use of another hashing algorythm based on the blockchain, it should fix the slow bc syncing we experience in BCN & BMR.
True. And we believe it more protected from ASIC
2. 10% of total coins going through emission to the developers so they can do their job when drinking cocktails on the Bahama's. (in other words, 10% of each block goes into the devs pockets)
NO. 10% is maximum possible donation size with each block. But for each block, each miner decide by himself how much to donate in his mined block. Thats why we called it donations. We set default value to 5%. It is fairly, and it is clear. And yes, we will drink cocktails on the Bahama's if we will success.
3. Mixing level of coins will always be greater then 0
No really. Maybe we should more detailed explanation of this feature: When you've done ring signature in classic cryptonote code, you never know if any of other mixin outs will be spent with mixins or not. And if the will spent without mixins you will loose unlinkability of yours transaction. We add specific field, to mark how this out could be spent:
1. It can have mark "relaxed" - the same as CryptoNote usual out.
2. It can be marked as forced to be spent without mixins - to make possible track some public address balance if owner desire it.
3. It can be marked as forced to be spent with minimum n-mixins - and this GRANTS that you will not loose unlinkability of your transaction, if you used this kind of forced outs in mixins.
If it is not clear feel free to ask.
4. Smaller blockchain because of dust removal
Not a big deal. A little nice feature.
5. p2p broadcasting like used in Litecoin for sending messages through the blockchain
6. Mapping of addresses to short names for easy access
True.
True.
For the dev. Are you changing the way the blockchain is stored? Like write it directly to a db and not a full mem load?
Yes, we will change of course. But as i said - it is not big problem for next few mounces, and we planing to make nice simple GUI at first.
Thank you for your interest.

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