[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[papa_lazzarou]

Ok can someone explain to me or point me to a link that explains ring signatures.  What do they do?  Why is it important.   I understand the API, the View Keys, and the Transaction ID's  just need some clarification on the ring signatures.

https://lab.getmonero.org/pubs/MRL-0003.pdf

[equipoise]

Ok can someone explain to me or point me to a link that explains ring signatures.  What do they do?  Why is it important.   I understand the API, the View Keys, and the Transaction ID's  just need some clarification on the ring signatures.

https://lab.getmonero.org/pubs/MRL-0003.pdf

Or if you prefer the minimalistic version currently in moneropedia:

A group of cryptographic signatures with at least one real participant, but no way to tell which in the group is the real one as they all appear valid.

[David Latapie]

Regarding https://merkle.io: "our artificial intelligence will detect these terms" => /dev/null

Regarding DRK:
- I quoted two interesting posts
- I also agree with "[DRK's] failure is harmful to all of us."
- Also, fluffy's "domination post" and othe's "domination post" on DRK nicely complements my domination post on DRK. Basically: a government can easily take control of the DRK network without even making it visible (note that it can also control Bitcoin network or any other network - including Monero - if it really wants to, but it would be more expensive).

Regarding privacy and anonymity: we use "privacy" exclusively in our speeches. Anonymity =  drug dealers: Privacy = family values. Marketing recommendation: "privacy" and "anonymity", PR-wise.

[iourzzz]

Regarding https://merkle.io: "our artificial intelligence will detect these terms" => /dev/null

Regarding DRK:
- I quoted two interesting posts
- I also agree with "[DRK's] failure is harmful to all of us."
- Also, fluffy's "domination post" and othe's "domination post" on DRK nicely complements my domination post on DRK. Basically: a government can easily take control of the DRK network without even making it visible (note that it can also control Bitcoin network or any other network - including Monero - if he really wants to, but it would be more expensive).

Regarding privacy and anonymity: we use "privacy" exclusively in our speeches. Anonymity =  drug dealers: Privacy = family values. [Marketing recommendation: "privacy" and "anonymity", PR-wise.

Thank you, David! Vitamins for my mind.

[iCEBREAKER]

let's understand the role of the core team. This is not our own pet coin. We didn't create it and don't misrepresent is as such. We are the essentially the board of directors of the project, supervising the ongoing development and maintenance as a community-focused open source project. Our primary role is to set the direction for the project, decide on priorities, etc.

We do some of the coding work ourselves, but much of that is done by community contributors (you are welcome to contribute for example) and occasionally paid freelancers under our direction. We also all provide direct financial support to the project to pay for cryptographers/academics professional fees, hosting, said freelancers, etc.

Personally, in addition to the my role on the core team as described above, I do a lot of testing and debugging (not only core code but I've also helped debug some pool issues and close some exploits), design and analysis, and a huge amount of community support (answering questions, such as yours, etc.).

IOW, Monero is a distributed leaderless bottom-up effort with no absolute 'central command.'

This is hard for the DARSHers to understand, because their coin brand's parade of coin-like offerings is a top-down effort created by an incorporated foundation consisting of the requisite Money Guy, Tech Dude, and Shady Lawyer.

[Drhiggins]

So what would be the point of multiple people signing the ring signed onto the ring signature?  Is it to hide who the real shooter is?  I'll look over the GetHub link and read more.  Mainly looking for a real world scenario that this feature might be used for.  

I want to start talking to people locally that have interest in alt coins (mainly Monero). I want to be able to explain the basics and the features this coin has. This is one of the last features of XMR at the moment I don't fully understand.

I think I'm all ass backwards on this.  sorry if i'm annoying  just trying to get it right in my pea brain

[Shrikez]

For me it all boils down to trust. In my opinion, trust is the most important asset. It's hard to earn and easy to lose.

The Monero team has earned my trust. They earned it by being methodical in their development. They earned it by sticking to the social contract and not giving in to the fears of (big and important) holders that coin supply might be too high, including mine. They earned it by working on a solid foundation rather than measures to gain short term popularity.

And although sometimes I cringe at the conflict and arguably negative exposure these discussion may cause, I now trust them even more for sticking up for their beliefs, temporarily putting their reputation on the line. They understand that the effects of bad crypto will fall back on the whole ecosystem when the numbers and public exposure are high enough.

I feel good being invested in this coin. I feel motivated in this community, motivated to learn, to participate, to contribute.

It feels right.

+1
Well put and it is exactly the way I feel about DRK, but I am happy to read this, as it seems to be a serious competitor then, which is good for crypto as such. Might rebuy some XMR then ;-) Good luck to your community, let the market decide on the winner (or maybe both will find their market share)!

Thanks but here we will have to agree to disagree. It is impossible for me to understand how anyone can trust DRK. The why of this has been discussed ad nauseam by people more competent than me so I won't reiterate.

It's the exact opposite of what a cryptocurrency should be. Economically, technically, philosophically.

But again, let's agree to disagree.

[GingerAle]

So what would be the point of multiple people signing the ring signed onto the ring signature?  Is it to hide who the real shooter is?  I'll look over the GetHub link and read more.  Mainly looking for a real world scenario that this feature might be used for.  

I want to start talking to people locally that have interest in alt coins (mainly Monero). I want to be able to explain the basics and the features this coin has. This is one of the last features of XMR at the moment I don't fully understand.

Yes, essentially, to "hide who the real shooter is" - so that way the payment is untraceable. Three people signed it, but there's no way to know whose money it actually is. THere's some analogy / example out their with leaking secrets. The real world scenario is transactional privacy!

I imagine it as thus: you have a lockbox with your money in it. Your key can open it, but anyone watching would know "hey, ginger's taking money out of his lockbox". So, in order to prevent someone from seeing who's money it is, you set up the lockbox so that there are a lot of keyholes - say, 12. Now 12 keys have to be used to open the lockbox - but still only your key opens it. So anyone watching could only know that its one of the 12 keys that opens the lockbox.

"Well" you say "what if the observer sees me going back to the same lockbox?" But that is why stealth addresses are used, so each time you go to your lockbox, its like the lockbox is being painted a different color. So all it looks like to an observer is "well a bunch of keys are opening a lockbox".

And to further the privacy, each lockbox is for a different amount. So if you're sending 12.43 xmr, you could have a lockbox for the 10, the 2, the 0.4 and the 0.03.

I could be way off, but that works for me.

(edited to replace people with keys, because its not active - its passive)

[Drhiggins]

So what would be the point of multiple people signing the ring signed onto the ring signature?  Is it to hide who the real shooter is?  I'll look over the GetHub link and read more.  Mainly looking for a real world scenario that this feature might be used for.  

I want to start talking to people locally that have interest in alt coins (mainly Monero). I want to be able to explain the basics and the features this coin has. This is one of the last features of XMR at the moment I don't fully understand.

Yes, essentially, to "hide who the real shooter is" - so that way the payment is untraceable. Three people signed it, but there's no way to know whose money it actually is. THere's some analogy / example out their with leaking secrets. The real world scenario is transactional privacy!

I imagine it as thus: you have a lockbox with your money in it. Your key can open it, but anyone watching would know "hey, ginger's taking money out of his lockbox". So, in order to prevent someone from seeing who's money it is, you set up the lockbox so that there are a lot of keyholes - say, 12. Now 12 people have to put their keys in to open the lockbox. So anyone watching could only know that its one of the 12 peoples lockbox.

"Well" you say "what if the observer sees me going back to the same lockbox?" But that is why stealth addresses are used, so each time you go to your lockbox, its like the lockbox is being painted a different color. So all it looks like to an observer is "well a bunch of people are opening a lockbox".

And to further the privacy, each lockbox is for a different amount. So if you're sending 12.43 xmr, you could have a lockbox for the 10, the 2, the 0.4 and the 0.03.

I could be way off, but that works for me.

GingerAle

Thank you. Got it now. 

[dEBRUYNE]

Another poll!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1000833.0

[aminorex]

I`d actually be interested in some of the DRK related posts in here being discussed over there and the other way around, but the parties involved do not seem to be able to discuss in a civilized way...the crypto world sometimes seems really silly and childish

This.  An XMR-DRK technical/economic/political comparison thread, moderated by a pair of competent and reasonable people, one from each of the advocacy communities, would probably be a very helpful way to clear the air, get the cards on the table, and serve the interests of those new to XMR and DRK, so that they can evaluate in an informed and reasoned manner how they would like to participate in or abstain from participation in one or both projects.

I particularly like the idea because I think it would have the effect of redirecting many naive persons from DRK to XMR, and thus save a lot of misery, but of course a genuous partisan of DRK would think precisely the opposite (erroneously).

[wpalczynski]

I`d actually be interested in some of the DRK related posts in here being discussed over there and the other way around, but the parties involved do not seem to be able to discuss in a civilized way...the crypto world sometimes seems really silly and childish

This.  An XMR-DRK technical/economic/political comparison thread, moderated by a pair of competent and reasonable people, one from each of the advocacy communities, would probably be a very helpful way to clear the air, get the cards on the table, and serve the interests of those new to XMR and DRK, so that they can evaluate in an informed and reasoned manner how they would like to participate in or abstain from participation in one or both projects.

I particularly like the idea because I think it would have the effect of redirecting many naive persons from DRK to XMR, and thus save a lot of misery, but of course a genuous partisan of DRK would think precisely the opposite (erroneously).

Its not in their interest to engage in any such honest dialogue.

[Anon136]

I`d actually be interested in some of the DRK related posts in here being discussed over there and the other way around, but the parties involved do not seem to be able to discuss in a civilized way...the crypto world sometimes seems really silly and childish

This.  An XMR-DRK technical/economic/political comparison thread, moderated by a pair of competent and reasonable people, one from each of the advocacy communities, would probably be a very helpful way to clear the air, get the cards on the table, and serve the interests of those new to XMR and DRK, so that they can evaluate in an informed and reasoned manner how they would like to participate in or abstain from participation in one or both projects.

I particularly like the idea because I think it would have the effect of redirecting many naive persons from DRK to XMR, and thus save a lot of misery, but of course a genuous partisan of DRK would think precisely the opposite (erroneously).

+1

I would very much like to see a well moderated dark vs monero thread, where all of the nay sayers from each thread could go instead of in the dark and monero threads. Can you set up a thread to have multiple moderators?

[oblox]

I`d actually be interested in some of the DRK related posts in here being discussed over there and the other way around, but the parties involved do not seem to be able to discuss in a civilized way...the crypto world sometimes seems really silly and childish

This.  An XMR-DRK technical/economic/political comparison thread, moderated by a pair of competent and reasonable people, one from each of the advocacy communities, would probably be a very helpful way to clear the air, get the cards on the table, and serve the interests of those new to XMR and DRK, so that they can evaluate in an informed and reasoned manner how they would like to participate in or abstain from participation in one or both projects.

I particularly like the idea because I think it would have the effect of redirecting many naive persons from DRK to XMR, and thus save a lot of misery, but of course a genuous partisan of DRK would think precisely the opposite (erroneously).

Nice job on frontloading bias. lol

[aminorex]

I would very much like to see a well moderated dark vs monero thread, where all of the nay sayers from each thread could go instead of in the dark and monero threads. Can you set up a thread to have multiple moderators?

Dunno, but one could always create an account to moderate and share that account.

[Anon136]

I would very much like to see a well moderated dark vs monero thread, where all of the nay sayers from each thread could go instead of in the dark and monero threads. Can you set up a thread to have multiple moderators?

Dunno, but one could always create an account to moderate and share that account.

Perhaps the best option is to have it un moderated and people can just add trolls to their ignore list.

[papa_lazzarou]

So what would be the point of multiple people signing the ring signed onto the ring signature?  Is it to hide who the real shooter is?  I'll look over the GetHub link and read more.  Mainly looking for a real world scenario that this feature might be used for.  

I want to start talking to people locally that have interest in alt coins (mainly Monero). I want to be able to explain the basics and the features this coin has. This is one of the last features of XMR at the moment I don't fully understand.

Yes, essentially, to "hide who the real shooter is" - so that way the payment is untraceable. Three people signed it, but there's no way to know whose money it actually is. THere's some analogy / example out their with leaking secrets. The real world scenario is transactional privacy!

I imagine it as thus: you have a lockbox with your money in it. Your key can open it, but anyone watching would know "hey, ginger's taking money out of his lockbox". So, in order to prevent someone from seeing who's money it is, you set up the lockbox so that there are a lot of keyholes - say, 12. Now 12 keys have to be used to open the lockbox - but still only your key opens it. So anyone watching could only know that its one of the 12 keys that opens the lockbox.

"Well" you say "what if the observer sees me going back to the same lockbox?" But that is why stealth addresses are used, so each time you go to your lockbox, its like the lockbox is being painted a different color. So all it looks like to an observer is "well a bunch of keys are opening a lockbox".

And to further the privacy, each lockbox is for a different amount. So if you're sending 12.43 xmr, you could have a lockbox for the 10, the 2, the 0.4 and the 0.03.

I could be way off, but that works for me.

(edited to replace people with keys, because its not active - its passive)

And don't forget that that ambiguity compounds. Ideally, each of those inputs were outputs of a transaction with its own set of signatures each coming from a tx with its own, etc.

Thus the importance of always using high mixins.

[Anon136]

If dark had a mascot:



Please let me know if you understand the joke.

[XMRvsDRK]

I set this up just for the debate between XMR and DRK; if you want to move the discussion / debate from here.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1001642

I will only moderate and have no dogs in this fight.

Just a place to have respectful debate and/or Q & A.

[dewdeded]

To have a curated directory with the most important, must-have and must-know Monero links on one page is beneficial. Being able to quickly & easily find the Monero links & pages he searches for and by discovering other major ressources, a user didn't know before, is or can turn out to be very useful, during daily Monero-related work.

Because I often forget the Monero links I looked for myself, I build a small directory of the most important Monero links. I would like to share now:

http://xmr.biz/links.html

I know this is boring to long-time XMR community members. But this pages goal is to help everyone (esp. people new to the community) to save some time researching, looking up needed information or discovering central Monero ressources they didn't knew before.

---> You may like to share this link, with all the people you introduce to Monero, for example: colleague at work or new friends you meet on Tinder.






http://xmr.biz/links.html <- Please provide feedback. Thank you.