[ANN] Syscoin - Business on the Blockchain - LAUNCHED!

[Soul_eater_123]

Guys - any progress on the press release, podcasts etc. ?  Should really help to build up the momentum.

[cryptomommy]

Hi Guys,
Leaving this here for updated comments. Can't wait for launch!

[zhangdu]

Transparency: I have deleted additional posts from user 'zhangdu'. I will continue deleting this user's posts until the content comes back into the realm of productive discussion. I am doing this for the benefit of everyone here who is looking for real information and not banter/name calling. This thread is not the place for name calling or other childish comments.

edit: i am doing this for the benefit of every here who want buy sys coins, presale are in progress, first come first sever.

[coderboo]

So - aside from all the details relative to the launch itself, coin valuation etc, anyone out there have some interesting technical questions for us? We can talk use cases, implementation details, etc.. just ask!

[nomoreheroes7]

So - aside from all the details relative to the launch itself, coin valuation etc, anyone out there have some interesting technical questions for us? We can talk use cases, implementation details, etc.. just ask!

How easy will it be to build a decentralized eBay out of Syscoin? Will people be able to buy and sell items through Moolah in a decentralized manner utilizing Syscoins, or will it be through some special portal or app or something? I'm not too down with the "technical" side of all this, so I'm not even sure if it's possible with Syscoin's offerings, but I imagine this with a user-friendly approach would go far in terms of initial adoption.

[danosphere]

Guys - any progress on the press release, podcasts etc. ?  Should really help to build up the momentum.

We're working on this and will have these coming out over this week and the following weeks. The focus at the moment is the updated reward schedule which we'll be publishing tomorrow. We should have an additional video tomorrow evening with more to follow.

It really does take a lot of time just managing the misinformation that some users are posting in this thread. I would like to express my appreciation to all of those BCT users who have stepped in to help correct the plethora of misinformation being posted by others. The more BCT users can help us to manage this misinformation, the more we (the Syscoin Team) can use our time on creating press releases, videos, podcasts and more.

So - aside from all the details relative to the launch itself, coin valuation etc, anyone out there have some interesting technical questions for us? We can talk use cases, implementation details, etc.. just ask!

Emphasis added just in case it got lost in the stream of text

[danosphere]

So - aside from all the details relative to the launch itself, coin valuation etc, anyone out there have some interesting technical questions for us? We can talk use cases, implementation details, etc.. just ask!

How easy will it be to build a decentralized eBay out of Syscoin? Will people be able to buy and sell items through Moolah in a decentralized manner utilizing Syscoins, or will it be through some special portal or app or something? I'm not too down with the "technical" side of all this, so I'm not even sure if it's possible with Syscoin's offerings, but I imagine this with a user-friendly approach would go far in terms of initial adoption.

This is a great question. Let me try and answer initially and then @coderboo may come through with a more technical answer.

Let's play out a hypothetical use case as i think that might be the easiest way to convey how this might play out- let's call it SysBay. Initially there will be some effort involved to create a decentralized SysBay, a developer would need to build a front end on top of the Syscoin marketplace service to display only a subset of offers (just those related to SysBay) in a user-friendly display (think something that looks like ebay). Then, regular users would use this front end to list items for sale on SysBay or buy items from other users who sell things on SysBay. This would also provide the SysBay developer with some revenue as they will have the option of adding fees for their users to leverage their frontend which makes all of this interaction with decentralized markets much more user friendly.

As it is implemented today, SysBay would have to be "fixed price" because marketplaces within Syscoin don't currently have the construct of bid/asks but we are already looking at that and may be enhancing that prior to launch. At the moment though its a fixed price mechanism for marketplace offers.

Additionally, we are working with Moolah to make this type of experience more readily available to a wider audience. They already have a complete merchant platform and are working on more things I'm not able to disclose at the moment related to marketplaces. This is one of the reasons we partnered with them and vice versa; we have a technology solution that facilitates decentralized end-user services that they want to offer to users via the Moolah platform and we're working with them to make that happen.

So even as a user that may not be very technical, Syscoin provides business opportunities to developers (any developer) that will make user-friendly marketplaces on top of Syscoin pop up very fast. Additionally the Syscoin Team is looking to release something generic/whitelabel to serve as a basis for others to build out. We definitely realize at the bare-bones level this is technical stuff and in order for mass adoption to occur there will need to be layers between "raw Syscoin services" and the "end user" that make this easy and consumable from the start.

[Kuriso]

I'm kind of late to the party here.  I have skimmed the pages but hadn't found what I wanted.  You are asking for 1500 BTC from the community and putting those coins in escrow with a third party but there's no contract, no open agreements, no clear explanation for the way the money will be handled or how it will be distributed. 

This is the only somewhat legal snip-it or disclaimer I see.

--- Quoted from OP ---
PLEASE READ: Presale purchases are final. There will be no individual refunds unless the Syscoin Team does not deliver. Delivery is defined as: Syscoin as a universally merge-mineable coin with the 4 features outlined in preann (marketplace, certificates, name aliases, and data aliases). Double check your numbers before sending BTC! In the event the Syscoin Team does not deliver Syscoin, all presale purchases will be refunded. In that event Moolah will reach out to investors to verify the refund-address before issuing the refund.
--- End Quote ---

Where is this disclaimer stated in an agreement between you, me and Moolah?  Moohlah is holding the funds but i do not see any agreement that we agree to before sending Moolah our information.

"Delivery is defined as: Syscoin as a universally merge-mineable coin with the 4 features outlined in preann (marketplace, certificates, name aliases, and data aliases)." 

• 1. So you, Syscoin, will not receive any BTC from Moolah until all 4 of these services are completed and working 100%?  Not partially working, not 80% working but working 100% and stable?
• 2. How long do you have to complete all these services?  1 week, a month, a year?
• 3. Who determines that these items are complete and in proper working order?
• 4. If these items are not completed or not in 100% working order, how long do you have to complete or fix them.
• 5. If they are never fixed or never completed, who determines a refund is going to be provided?

Where are these 4 features (marketplace, certificates, name aliases, and data aliases) outlined in preann?
I see something called: Business on the Blockchain, Brokerage on the Blockchain, Certificates on the Blockchain, Miners Matter!. 
I also see 4 block images labeled: Decentralized Markets on the Blockchain, Secure Data Storage on the Blockchain, Digital Certificates and Assets, and Miners Matter!. 

I assume these are all the same thing but there needs to be clear clarification of what these 4 items are, what they are suppose to do and how they are suppose to work.


"All Syscoin features described here have been implemented and the Syscoin wallet is currently in beta testing."  Will all these features be wrapped up in a GUI wallet or is it all command line based?


You have entered into a contract with Moolah to escrow these funds.  They have a duty to protect investors but also protect developers.  Where are the terms that you and Moolah agreed too?  Where did Moolah agree to refund investors if the project is not delivered and what were the stipulations that warranted a refund?

You are asking for more than $900,000 worth of BTC at current market value.  You are offering the potential of a refund if you do not deliver on the "4 features".  As investors we need classifications on some of these questions so we are protected and have means to seek recourse if you do not deliver.

[profitofthegods]

So - aside from all the details relative to the launch itself, coin valuation etc, anyone out there have some interesting technical questions for us? We can talk use cases, implementation details, etc.. just ask!

How easy will it be to build a decentralized eBay out of Syscoin? Will people be able to buy and sell items through Moolah in a decentralized manner utilizing Syscoins, or will it be through some special portal or app or something? I'm not too down with the "technical" side of all this, so I'm not even sure if it's possible with Syscoin's offerings, but I imagine this with a user-friendly approach would go far in terms of initial adoption.

This is a great question. Let me try and answer initially and then @coderboo may come through with a more technical answer.

Let's play out a hypothetical use case as i think that might be the easiest way to convey how this might play out- let's call it SysBay. Initially there will be some effort involved to create a decentralized SysBay, a developer would need to build a front end on top of the Syscoin marketplace service to display only a subset of offers (just those related to SysBay) in a user-friendly display (think something that looks like ebay). Then, regular users would use this front end to list items for sale on SysBay or buy items from other users who sell things on SysBay. This would also provide the SysBay developer with some revenue as they will have the option of adding fees for their users to leverage their frontend which makes all of this interaction with decentralized markets much more user friendly.

As it is implemented today, SysBay would have to be "fixed price" because marketplaces within Syscoin don't currently have the construct of bid/asks but we are already looking at that and may be enhancing that prior to launch. At the moment though its a fixed price mechanism for marketplace offers.

Additionally, we are working with Moolah to make this type of experience more readily available to a wider audience. They already have a complete merchant platform and are working on more things I'm not able to disclose at the moment related to marketplaces. This is one of the reasons we partnered with them and vice versa; we have a technology solution that facilitates decentralized end-user services that they want to offer to users via the Moolah platform and we're working with them to make that happen.

So even as a user that may not be very technical, Syscoin provides business opportunities to developers (any developer) that will make user-friendly marketplaces on top of Syscoin pop up very fast. Additionally the Syscoin Team is looking to release something generic/whitelabel to serve as a basis for others to build out. We definitely realize at the bare-bones level this is technical stuff and in order for mass adoption to occur there will need to be layers between "raw Syscoin services" and the "end user" that make this easy and consumable from the start.

Interesting stuff. Not sure if this has been covered elsewhere but anyway - one of the issues with decentralized marketplaces is going to be scammers, because there is no central authority to impose rules on refunds etc and make sure everyone is playing fair. What solutions do you see for this - will it be a reputation based system and if so how do you envision reputation being managed / assessed or are you leaving that entirely up to third parties building on top of Syscoin?

[danosphere]

[snip]
Where is this disclaimer stated in an agreement between you, me and Moolah?  Moohlah is holding the funds but i do not see any agreement that we agree to before sending Moolah our information.

"Delivery is defined as: Syscoin as a universally merge-mineable coin with the 4 features outlined in preann (marketplace, certificates, name aliases, and data aliases)."  

• 1. So you, Syscoin, will not receive any BTC from Moolah until all 4 of these services are completed and working 100%?  Not partially working, not 80% working but working 100% and stable?
• 2. How long do you have to complete all these services?  1 week, a month, a year?
• 3. Who determines that these items are complete and in proper working order?
• 4. If these items are not completed or not in 100% working order, how long do you have to complete or fix them.
• 5. If they are never fixed or never completed, who determines a refund is going to be provided?

Where are these 4 features (marketplace, certificates, name aliases, and data aliases) outlined in preann?
I see something called: Business on the Blockchain, Brokerage on the Blockchain, Certificates on the Blockchain, Miners Matter!.  
I also see 4 block images labeled: Decentralized Markets on the Blockchain, Secure Data Storage on the Blockchain, Digital Certificates and Assets, and Miners Matter!.  

I assume these are all the same thing but there needs to be clear clarification of what these 4 items are, what they are suppose to do and how they are suppose to work.

5 features technically, and here is clarification since the OP restates some of them in the context of a use-case:
- universally merge-mineable (self describing)
- distributed marketplace (the ability to buy and sell goods on the blockchain)
- distributed certificates service (the ability to issue, receive, and transfer digital certificates on the blockchain)
- data aliases / distributed data storage (the ability to store, retrieve, delete, and update data on the blockchain up to 250k per dataalias)
- name aliases / decentralized id/value storage (the ability to store, retrieve, delete, and update key/value storage on the blockchain. The ability to send funds directly to a key/value if the associated value is a valid Syscoin address)

Those are the features, and the literal descriptions of their delivery/functionality.

We do have paperwork in place that outlines we don't get any BTC until Syscoin is fully delivered. This must happen by August 16. These features must be delivered in working order. They must be 100% functional via at least the command line/daemon but we will of course be addressing any bugs that are discovered after launch, that is part of what the fund is being put towards amongst other things.

3. Who determines that these items are complete and in proper working order?

It will be our responsibility to make sure we're delivering what we say we're delivering. Moolah knows our names as does the community- they are listed on the Syscoin website (and we do have legal paperwork in place). We'll have much bigger problems than a failed coin if we try to release this in any kind of dishonest/halfcomplete manner. Both legally and personally.

"All Syscoin features described here have been implemented and the Syscoin wallet is currently in beta testing."  Will all these features be wrapped up in a GUI wallet or is it all command line based?

Command line for sure; already done. Working on the GUI part now, not guaranteed for delivery at launch but something we're pushing for- just because its not present in the GUI wallet doesn't mean its not a complete, functional service of Syscoin. I do want to be clear that we are trying to get all of this in the GUI wallet during this 4 week timespan. There are already major portions of Syscoin services in the GUI wallet, but the command line is still more robust at the moment.

You are asking for more than $900,000 worth of BTC at current market value.

No, we are making UP TO 1500btc of Syscoin available for presale at a fixed price depending on the phase you purchase in. We are not asking for 1500btc. We're launching this thing with or without 1500btc. If users feel Syscoin will be available on an exchange for a lower price, they are welcome to purchase it there. Participation in the presale 100% optional. Important note is that we are structuring the mining rewards to take into consideration the fact that possibly 15% of Syscoin will be on the market via the presale.

[giveBTCpls]

Im interested in the Moolah IPO. Has it finished forever? I remember you could send a certain BTC then get paid a % monthly, but they refused my donation for some reason and I was kept out of the "cake" so to speak.

[snipsnoop]

Im interested in the Moolah IPO. Has it finished forever? I remember you could send a certain BTC then get paid a % monthly, but they refused my donation for some reason and I was kept out of the "cake" so to speak.

Sorry no idea about the Moolah IPO. Think you have to contact them directly.

[danosphere]

Interesting stuff. Not sure if this has been covered elsewhere but anyway - one of the issues with decentralized marketplaces is going to be scammers, because there is no central authority to impose rules on refunds etc and make sure everyone is playing fair. What solutions do you see for this - will it be a reputation based system and if so how do you envision reputation being managed / assessed or are you leaving that entirely up to third parties building on top of Syscoin?

Sorry I missed this one! YES you are 100% right and ESCROW is the next big feature we're already working on figuring out. This isn't an easy problem but we've been kicking around ideas for a few weeks. This is the very first thing we're trying to implement after launch. I don't want to speak to the implementation right now since its still very much being discussed, everything from masternode like implementations to other solutions so I don't want to say we'll do it this way or that way yet since I'm not really sure at this moment. I can just say that we see escrow as the next big feature and a natural fit with the other services we're rolling out at launch. Great insight

[Soul_eater_123]

Sorry I missed this one! YES you are 100% right and ESCROW is the next big feature we're already working on figuring out....

Apologies if I missed it but couldn't this involve some kind of multi-signature approach?  I think block cypher already have this in place so it shouldn't be too difficult to implement into SYS as a first step towards ESCROW.

[danosphere]

Sorry I missed this one! YES you are 100% right and ESCROW is the next big feature we're already working on figuring out....

Apologies if I missed it but couldn't this involve some kind of multi-signature approach?  I think block cypher already have this in place so it shouldn't be too difficult to implement into SYS as a first step towards ESCROW.

Yes to my knowledge it would but again I think this would depend on the implementation. I'd think the "proper" implementation would leverage a multisig approach as you identified which will definitely be something we investigate. I'm trying to avoid making misstatements about features we are currently working on/in the R&D phase. We may have more news on this feature before launch, but I would definitely say escrow is something we're targeting for the next Syscoin release / won't be part of the initial release on Aug16 [or sooner!].

I'm glad to see people supporting the escrow feature! Internally we debated "escrow vs. anon tx" but ultimately decided to push escrow first. While anon tx is definitely valuable and something we're not against implementing/adding we feel like every other altcoin team under the sun is working on this. Rather than recreate the wheel we're shooting for new functionality (escrow) and that escrow functionality naturally fits with our core feature set and further helps facilitate business in the context of the core demographic we'd like to really adopt+use Syscoin [large financial services and systems].

[Korean]

1) Will this technology be open sourced at launch?

2) Merge Miners have the tendency to dump the coins that they are given...because they are mining Litecoin or something and any additional coin they get is a free gift to get more Litecoin in my example. What can we do to discourage this?

[profitofthegods]

2) Merge Miners have the tendency to dump the coins that they are given...because they are mining Litecoin or something and any additional coin they get is a free gift to get more Litecoin in my example. What can we do to discourage this?

Not sure this really needs to be discouraged - coins need to be generated and released onto the market and that's what miners do; I can't think of any fundamental reason why you should want or need miners to keep hold of the coins they generate. I just hope they set the difficulty right so that the coins are released onto the market at a pace which demand can keep up with. If I remember correctly we're waiting on an update about that.

[danosphere]

1) Will this technology be open sourced at launch?

The plan is to open source it for sure, might not be immediately at launch. We may delay open sourcing the code so that we keep our first-mover advantage. We're of course completely open to the code being peer-reviewed by a mutually agreed upon third party at launch so that it can be verified the rewards are as stated / no hidden blocks / etc. At the same time we read twitter- we can clearly see pump/dump groups already talking about taking our code and cloning it for their own terrible reasons and we don't support this kind of clone, pump, dump stuff.

We do fully support the open source community so this will definitely be open sourced- the question is when and I don't have an immediate answer right now.

2) Merge Miners have the tendency to dump the coins that they are given...because they are mining Litecoin or something and any additional coin they get is a free gift to get more Litecoin in my example. What can we do to discourage this?

Not sure this really needs to be discouraged - coins need to be generated and released onto the market and that's what miners do; I can't think of any fundamental reason why you should want or need miners to keep hold of the coins they generate. I just hope they set the difficulty right so that the coins are released onto the market at a pace which demand can keep up with. If I remember correctly we're waiting on an update about that.

You both raise valid points. We are taking into consideration this can be mined alongside any other Scrypt coin [merge-mined] and thus there will most likely be MORE Syscoin on the market than you would expect from a normal reward schedule because its literally being mined all the time, on top of whatever the current "hot" Scrypt coin of the moment. This is actually a good thing for the Syscoin network in that it will have an enormous hashrate and will be very stable for the types of financial services we want to decentralize. At the same time we recognize some of the pitfalls that come with merged mining and to @profitofthegods point we are changing the reward schedule to significantly reduce the amount of coins introduced to the market across the entire schedule. Also, Syscoin has regenerated service fees for miners that will accrue on top of the reward for a given block and the revised schedule accounts for this more accurately.

This update will be finalized and public tomorrow night, we were trying to get it out tonight but couldn't get everyone together in time, expect a big update in this regard tomorrow evening (team is meeting at 9pm GMT-5 for those setting their clocks, 60min mtg).

[tricass]

Not sure whether this option has been raised or discussed earlier with regard to the presale potentially not selling out have you considered destroying the the unsold coins instead of returning them to the pool of un-mined coins? Lots of other IPO/ICOs have gone down this route. It does protect the early investor somewhat as in theory the value of each coin they purchased is valued more in this scenario.

[seek4dream]

Not sure whether this option has been raised or discussed earlier with regard to the presale potentially not selling out have you considered destroying the the unsold coins instead of returning them to the pool of un-mined coins? Lots of other IPO/ICOs have gone down this route. It does protect the early investor somewhat as in theory the value of each coin they purchased is valued more in this scenario.

for Syscoin, destroying or not doesn't make any difference.