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Author Topic: Pre-order Bitcoin Magazine - Quality control, final revisions on proofs  (Read 87865 times)
Matthew N. Wright
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January 25, 2012, 11:39:29 PM
 #141

Yes it will be pirated with and without DRM, but that will not prevent the Magazine for being successful.

That to me smells of speculation. If it were even remotely true, people wouldn't be using DRM in the first place.

DRM prevents people who don't know what they're doing from copying a "protected" work. It doesn't stop people who know what they're doing, or people who don't know what they're doing form getting it from those that do.

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management#Impossible_task

(read from Impossible Task on into Shortcomings)

I'm not aware of a single type of DRM that has not been broken. That of Blu-ray discs took a very long time, but it was supposed to be unbreakable.

All good points, but I digress-- by that mentality everything in the world should just be free.

We'll discuss this in depth more as the magazine actually grows. No one in our organization feels even remotely that having a $3 android app, newsstand edition, etc is going to be met with massive amounts of piracy. They also don't feel that we will even need to sell it in the first place-- if we can get the print issues circulated in a high enough volume.

All in good time my friend.

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January 25, 2012, 11:40:50 PM
 #142


The whole plan is not crystal clear yet to me either as I am rather new to this. I will tell you that we are planning for:

  • iTunes newsstand
  • Android
  • Kindle
  • BitcoinMagazine.net direct view


So sending me the digital copy isn't something you have in mind? Are you worried I'll show my magazine to people? Is it okay if I show the paper copy to people?

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January 25, 2012, 11:43:40 PM
 #143

by that mentality everything in the world should just be free.


That's not implied at all. Simply everything that is free (copying digit information) is going to be free.

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January 25, 2012, 11:44:15 PM
 #144

watching... keep up the good work guys especially you Matthew, seems like the trolling skills have paid up  Cheesy

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Matthew N. Wright
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January 25, 2012, 11:44:26 PM
 #145


The whole plan is not crystal clear yet to me either as I am rather new to this. I will tell you that we are planning for:

  • iTunes newsstand
  • Android
  • Kindle
  • BitcoinMagazine.net direct view


So sending me the digital copy isn't something you have in mind? Are you worried I'll show my magazine to people? Is it okay if I show the paper copy to people?

I haven't seen viewing as being an issue. People can go to Barnes and Noble and read the entire magazine without buying it for example. It's ownership that should cost money imo.

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January 25, 2012, 11:46:51 PM
 #146


The whole plan is not crystal clear yet to me either as I am rather new to this. I will tell you that we are planning for:

  • iTunes newsstand
  • Android
  • Kindle
  • BitcoinMagazine.net direct view


So sending me the digital copy isn't something you have in mind? Are you worried I'll show my magazine to people? Is it okay if I show the paper copy to people?

I haven't seen viewing as being an issue. People can go to Barnes and Noble and read the entire magazine without buying it for example. It's ownership that should cost money imo.


Yeah, I paid. What do I get to own?

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January 25, 2012, 11:50:27 PM
 #147

I would recommend that you do away with DRM, and put a bitcoin address (first bits or a link to open up bitcoin app) in the magazine for people to pay for their copy if they got it for free. I believe people who would normally pay for your magazine would send you bitcoins. And those that don't are likely people that wouldn't buy it in the first place, so it's no money lost. Then you can even do the raffles idea and pick a winner each month that gets a free subscription. That would incentivize people to pay for it.

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January 25, 2012, 11:52:19 PM
 #148

Yeah, I paid. What do I get to own?

You get to own code that represents the magazine on your phone. I won't bother to stop you from copying it and sending it out-- that's not my job. My job is to find the best way to distribute it to the largest audience without bankrupting the initiative.


I would recommend that you do away with DRM, and put a bitcoin address (first bits or a link to open up bitcoin app) in the magazine for people to pay for their copy if they got it for free. I believe people who would normally pay for your magazine would send you bitcoins. And those that don't are likely people that wouldn't buy it in the first place, so it's no money lost. Then you can even do the raffles idea and pick a winner each month that gets a free subscription. That would incentivize people to pay for it.

Thank you for your suggestion, I will discuss it with the group but I think this method is a fast track to bankruptcy.

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January 26, 2012, 12:02:58 AM
 #149

Why don't you just distribute it for free, or just to cover the cost of online hosting (<$0.10) and support yourselves from advertisements.
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January 26, 2012, 12:06:53 AM
 #150

My job is to find the best way to distribute it to the largest audience without bankrupting the initiative.

PDF if a widely supported standard. You can even lock down a PDF with DRM, though it can be broken like any other. Not by Joe Bloe, though, he'll just have to suffer the negative consequences of DRM. Polly Pirate will break the DRM, and Techie Timmy will download it off of Polly's site.

Thank you for your suggestion, I will discuss it with the group but I think this method is a fast track to bankruptcy.

You can separate all of humanity into four categories:

1. People who aren't interested at all
2. People who are interested but won't pay
3. People who are interested and might pay
4. People who are interested and will pay

Groups 1 and 2 are off the table. You'll never get any money from them. Group 4 is a sure thing. Group 3 is the one you want to convince to pay. Do you think there are more people in the Bitcoin community who...

Will be upset that you use technological measures to prevent copying & sharing, making them not want to support you financially?

or

Will be happy to donate Bitcoin to you after downloading your magazine for free (say from The Pirate Bay) and enjoying your content?
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January 26, 2012, 12:09:23 AM
 #151

I personally think that if we have a magazine that is easily stealable, then it deserves to be stolen. We're not going to be giving out a pdf file for example.

Somebody else already pointed out that DRM doesn't work and only harms paying customers. Copyright infringement is not the same as "stealing." It also appears you don't support copyright law at all, by suggesting that "unprotected" works do not deserve copyright protection. By that logic, it is Okay for me to buy a copy, scan it at high resolution, and post it on the Internet.

There is a dangerous line between print and digital though, and I want to make sure that the actions of digital release never complicate the print release. I have no problem with giving the digital away for absolutely free-- it's the fact that we'd have no revenue to print the physical issues that would be the problem.

Whatever we decide, everyone will find out at the same time as we're planning on Android, iPhone and general Web releases as well. I am also very open to suggestions for how to handle it (please, nothing like "Pay with a Tweet") and still keep the magazine alive.

You sound like you may be willing to release back-issues under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-commercial license. Getting the magazine in a timely manner may be enough incentive to encourage purchases of the print edition.

You also seem to be falling into the same trap as my local newspaper's parent company (On a "digital first" strategy). The text is digital information already. Only the graphics are analog. By partnering with e-distributers, you are no longer the publisher. For example, Apple takes a 30% cut and exercises editorial discretion. In the future, they may even inject their own advertisements over your magazine.


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January 26, 2012, 12:15:22 AM
 #152

Why don't you just distribute it for free, or just to cover the cost of online hosting (<$0.10) and support yourselves from advertisements.
Because writers and editors (and other staff) still have to be paid, and physical publishing of the magazine has to be covered as well.

I hate to say it Matthew, because I am one of the most anti-piracy people you'll ever meet, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one, namely because the crowd you are dealing with is composed mostly of people who are outspokenly pro-piracy (libertarians and all that).  The fact is, it will be pirated no matter how much you try to protect it, and people here will be less apt to support your operation if you try to fight it.  You can already see the animosity rising in this very thread.

I would recommend that your team seriously considers coblee's suggestion.  Release it as a downloadable PDF (or in-page PDF) to paid subscribers, frown on anyone who file shares it or torrents it (make them at least feel guilty about it), and have a note inside the cover suggesting that anyone who downloaded the magazine without paying for it should send 0.5 BTC to an address you specify.  That way, you'll still have the support of EVERYONE from the community.  As it is, you've already received tremendous support from people both verbally and monetarily, and it'd be a shame to see that flushed away trying to control the materials with DRM.

You'll have my support regardless of what you decide to do, but I think a lot of the community support will drop away if you continue with the pro-DRM stance.  It's exactly the wrong crowd to market anything with DRM to.
Matthew N. Wright
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January 26, 2012, 12:15:53 AM
 #153

Do you think there are more people in the Bitcoin community who...

Will be upset that you use technological measures to prevent copying & sharing, making them not want to support you financially?

or

Will be happy to donate Bitcoin to you after downloading your magazine for free (say from The Pirate Bay) and enjoying your content?

I'll present an additional option that you omitted:

People who appreciate the fact that there actually is a Bitcoin magazine now, will fight for it regardless, and are happy to pay for a high quality issue, but as human beings would also just take it for free and not donate otherwise.

I appreciate the philosophical debate any day of the week, but we're talking business, the life of the magazine, etc. and it seems like although you are presenting very good points, that you're only thinking about what benefits you without thinking about the horrible consequences to the magazine's future.

I see requests to 'make it free', but I don't see anyone tracking down advertisers to make it possible. I see requests to sell it cheaper, but I don't see anyone offering a cheaper printing solution. Trust me when I say that balance is not my specialty, opportunity however is. I don't think I'll ever trade the opportunity to bring this magazine to the masses just to please a few people who want to feel good about stealing it.

We haven't made up our minds yet though so I'll give more information as decisions are made.

UPDATE: Looks like we're going to bagging the issues in plastic as well. It's not cheap, but I think it's a necessary investment on our part to keep our magazine in good condition and keep that quality level high for our readers.

Thanks again everyone for the tremendous support. We still have a long way to go.



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January 26, 2012, 12:16:14 AM
 #154

My girlfriends reaction.
A man with a mask, thats like digging your own grave.

I hope she is not right but I fear she is, in that for most people it will make Bitcoins look like a negative thing.
Unfortunatly connecting Bitcoin with software piracy (Rick falkwinge) and anonymous will appeal to young males and Protest the wallstreet but make any normal business afraid of being associated with it.

Pope's favourite book: The Bible
Pope's Second favourite book: The God Delusion

Of course I can't back that with stats and I made it up, but I noticed a lot of christians buying that book just to take a dump on it.

Everyone wants to be cool, even if they're wearing a suit, and suits just want guaranteed return on top, but both the suit and the pope know to know their enemy, and this is about information.
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January 26, 2012, 12:17:23 AM
 #155

UPDATE: Looks like we're going to bagging the issues in plastic as well. It's not cheap, but I think it's a necessary investment on our part to keep our magazine in good condition and keep that quality level high for our readers.
Woohoo!
Matthew N. Wright
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January 26, 2012, 12:18:05 AM
 #156

I personally think that if we have a magazine that is easily stealable, then it deserves to be stolen. We're not going to be giving out a pdf file for example.

Somebody else already pointed out that DRM doesn't work and only harms paying customers. Copyright infringement is not the same as "stealing." It also appears you don't support copyright law at all, by suggesting that "unprotected" works do not deserve copyright protection. By that logic, it is Okay for me to buy a copy, scan it at high resolution, and post it on the Internet.

There is a dangerous line between print and digital though, and I want to make sure that the actions of digital release never complicate the print release. I have no problem with giving the digital away for absolutely free-- it's the fact that we'd have no revenue to print the physical issues that would be the problem.

Whatever we decide, everyone will find out at the same time as we're planning on Android, iPhone and general Web releases as well. I am also very open to suggestions for how to handle it (please, nothing like "Pay with a Tweet") and still keep the magazine alive.

You sound like you may be willing to release back-issues under a Creative Commons Attribution Non-commercial license. Getting the magazine in a timely manner may be enough incentive to encourage purchases of the print edition.

You also seem to be falling into the same trap as my local newspaper's parent company (On a "digital first" strategy). The text is digital information already. Only the graphics are analog. By partnering with e-distributers, you are no longer the publisher. For example, Apple takes a 30% cut and exercises editorial discretion. In the future, they may even inject their own advertisements over your magazine.



All good points. I want to remind everyone here that I am communicating from my own opinion and that no one at BitTalk Media or the magazine's team is supporting my personal opinion on this thread. I just want to share honestly and openly, and am always game to being taught a lesson.

Keep it coming!

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January 26, 2012, 12:21:40 AM
 #157

Why don't you just distribute it for free, or just to cover the cost of online hosting (<$0.10) and support yourselves from advertisements.
Because writers and editors (and other staff) still have to be paid, and physical publishing of the magazine has to be covered as well.

I hate to say it Matthew, because I am one of the most anti-piracy people you'll ever meet, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one, namely because the crowd you are dealing with is composed mostly of people who are outspokenly pro-piracy (libertarians and all that).  The fact is, it will be pirated no matter how much you try to protect it, and people here will be less apt to support your operation if you try to fight it.  You can already see the animosity rising in this very thread.

I would recommend that your team seriously considers coblee's suggestion.  Release it as a downloadable PDF (or in-page PDF) to paid subscribers, frown on anyone who file shares it or torrents it (make them at least feel guilty about it), and have a note inside the cover suggesting that anyone who downloaded the magazine without paying for it should send 0.5 BTC to an address you specify.  That way, you'll still have the support of EVERYONE from the community.  As it is, you've already received tremendous support from people both verbally and monetarily, and it'd be a shame to see that flushed away trying to control the materials with DRM.

You'll have my support regardless of what you decide to do, but I think a lot of the community support will drop away if you continue with the pro-DRM stance.  It's exactly the wrong crowd to market anything with DRM to.

+1 I solely promise that whoever I pass the magazine will pay me at least 1 bitcoin (current price), digital or print, or he will see only the cover of it. Stick a qr on the back to make it easier  Smiley You will get every penny of it just to keep up the good work.

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Matthew N. Wright
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January 26, 2012, 12:21:56 AM
 #158

Why don't you just distribute it for free, or just to cover the cost of online hosting (<$0.10) and support yourselves from advertisements.
Because writers and editors (and other staff) still have to be paid, and physical publishing of the magazine has to be covered as well.

I hate to say it Matthew, because I am one of the most anti-piracy people you'll ever meet, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one, namely because the crowd you are dealing with is composed mostly of people who are outspokenly pro-piracy (libertarians and all that).  The fact is, it will be pirated no matter how much you try to protect it, and people here will be less apt to support your operation if you try to fight it.  You can already see the animosity rising in this very thread.

I would recommend that your team seriously considers coblee's suggestion.  Release it as a downloadable PDF (or in-page PDF) to paid subscribers, frown on anyone who file shares it or torrents it (make them at least feel guilty about it), and have a note inside the cover suggesting that anyone who downloaded the magazine without paying for it should send 0.5 BTC to an address you specify.  That way, you'll still have the support of EVERYONE from the community.  As it is, you've already received tremendous support from people both verbally and monetarily, and it'd be a shame to see that flushed away trying to control the materials with DRM.

You'll have my support regardless of what you decide to do, but I think a lot of the community support will drop away if you continue with the pro-DRM stance.  It's exactly the wrong crowd to market anything with DRM to.

The fact is, I don't understand enough what "DRM" actually is. If you consider releasing the magazine as a downloadable app "DRM" just because Apple and Android could potentially control it, then I don't really know what to say, and I'll gladly stop commenting on it and let our Marketing manager Mihai Alisie give his thoughts.

If however we are talking about an issue where someone wants to download the PDF and only the PDF, and no other form will suffice, I think I'd have to give them a warm "No thank you" to their business at this particular moment. We're barely 2 weeks old as a business and I'd hate to crush us before we even start.

Everyone already knows my viewpoints, but more important than viewpoints, they know that I am willing to meet needs, adapt and adopt new strategies. I just need in put into a way that makes sense to me. As someone who just bought an Android app and an iPhone app, as well as some stock images the other day, I don't really the arguments and I am clearly in a different school of thought.

Anyone want to help me on this wild and wacky transition?

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January 26, 2012, 12:22:14 AM
 #159

you're only thinking about what benefits you without thinking about the horrible consequences to the magazine's future.

I already purchased a 12 month subscription...

Plus, I know enough so that I can strip any DRM off of a digital copy, and will do so in order to use it on the device of my choosing (thinking my new Nook Simple Touch).

Everyone already knows my viewpoints, but more important than viewpoints, they know that I am willing to meet needs, adapt and adopt new strategies. I just need in put into a way that makes sense to me.

How about this? Do you really want to read a magazine on your phone!?
Matthew N. Wright
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January 26, 2012, 12:27:00 AM
 #160

you're only thinking about what benefits you without thinking about the horrible consequences to the magazine's future.

I already purchased a 12 month subscription...

I don't really care either way. I know enough so that I can strip any DRM off of a digital copy, and will do so in order to use it on the device of my choosing (thinking my new Nook Simple Touch).

I guess I can see your side of things, that it will either be a game of cat and mouse or an all-out massive surrender. Either way is fine by me-- I'm just the founder and editor. All I care about is:

If a magazine gives up DRM or simply doesn't offer the digital copy for free-- how does it provide income to cover the costs of printing the physical copies?


Everyone here understands that we're losing money the first month, right? Does everyone here know how much it actually costs to print even 200 issues of a magazine by our specifications and at 64 pages? I literally would need to be charging $40 per issue at this point to break even. Releasing a free issue is not really on the top of my mind right now. Volume is. If that volume is in the form of more free issues, that's the wrong kind of volume. lol

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