Pre-order Bitcoin Magazine - Quality control, final revisions on proofs

[acoindr]

Since money is an idea,

It is not.

you can create as much as you want from nothing,

You can if you do it by fiat.

so it makes sense for interest to exist there.

I don't think so.

[Kluge]

Let me be the first to say: Even if you do ship the mazine out today, you still fucked up and owe us all an apology and interest on all the money you held for all this time.

Hasn't he been telling you people to ask for refunds since forever ago? And since when does bitcoin earn interest? That's a fiat concoction.

Actually, there is no problem with bitcoins (or sound money) earning interest. Personally, I don't like interest, especially anything over say 1%, but from a purely monetary perspective a non-inflationary currency can support interest and still induce a sound economy.

People might ask: well, where does new money come from to pay the interest? The money to support the interest comes from within the existing system. This means as more interest bearing loans are created the economy does become deflationary as interest payments are made. In a true free market economy this slows the creation/availability of jobs. At this point new interest bearing loans should be lessened as well, since default risk rises. In other words, the job market should act as a cut off valve for such loans at the point which the economy can no longer sustain them, or banks risk default. The economic problem (and additional moral hazard) with interest arises when banks don't accurately fear default, due to either creative financial mechanisms (like CDOs, or shaky credit default swaps), or assurance of being rescued (by bailouts). A true free market allows lenders to go bankrupt when they run afoul of the true tolerance of the free market.

No such thing.

Since money is an idea, you can create as much as you want from nothing, so it makes sense for interest to exist there. Bitcoin isn't just an idea, but a digital implementation of a finite resource, barring fundamental changes to the system, there won't be more than originally designed, so the idea of interest in such a system is incompatible.

I think you're misunderstanding interest as requiring inflation, which isn't required to justify charging interest on a "lease" of coins. Bill needs $50k (or BTC -- it doesn't matter) to purchase a particular machine to produce his product. He gets a loan @ 2% MPR. This covers the lender's time to write up and maintain the loan, the opportunity cost of what that finite resource is worth to other people "leasing" it, and the risk of default. Let's say it takes Bill 12 months to pay off, so he'd be paying $61k in total. He's able to do this because he's able to produce and sell his product to consumers at a profit. Bill wins because he's able to produce his product and create a new business, consumers win because they obviously want the product Bill was only able to produce and distribute with what he purchased using the loan, and the lender wins because he now has $61k to loan/spend/whatever instead of $50k. The $11k doesn't need to "appear out of nowhere" to be given to the lender, just as profits Bill earns from consumers don't need to "appear out of nowhere" to exist.

ETA after looking @ BW's post: Oh, we're in the BTCMag thread.   

[BurtW]

Since money is an idea, you can create as much as you want from nothing, so it makes sense for interest to exist there. Bitcoin isn't just an idea, but a digital implementation of a finite resource, barring fundamental changes to the system, there won't be more than originally designed, so the idea of interest in such a system is incompatible.

I do not want to hijack this thread anymore except to say that your theories ignore the FACT that people charge and pay interest on BTC every single day - here on Earth in reality.

You should take your argument over to the lending forum and try to convince everyone there that they can't charge or pay interest.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Can we no longer order Bitcoin Magazine via Memory Dealers? http://memorydealers.com/hardware/bitcoin-equipment.html

[Matthew N. Wright]

Can we no longer order Bitcoin Magazine via Memory Dealers? http://memorydealers.com/hardware/bitcoin-equipment.html

Since we accept Paypal directly now, there is no point to.

[cbeast]

Matthew should have a "Making of Bitcoin Magazine" video. It has been quite a drama and would make an interesting video. Perhaps a Christmas stocking stuffer? 

[Kluge]

Matthew should have a "Making of Bitcoin Magazine" video. It has been quite a drama and would make an interesting video. Perhaps a Christmas stocking stuffer? 

Include a lenticular card in the first issue (or perhaps just the "bonus" issue). "Making of Bitcoin Magazine." Matt stares at computer, eyes roll as you change angle card is held.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Matthew should have a "Making of Bitcoin Magazine" video. It has been quite a drama and would make an interesting video. Perhaps a Christmas stocking stuffer? 

Why did you ruin the surprise?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Matthew should have a "Making of Bitcoin Magazine" video. It has been quite a drama and would make an interesting video. Perhaps a Christmas stocking stuffer?  

Why did you ruin the surprise?

Don't toy with us! We all know it's not a "Making of Bitcoin Magazine" video, but one entitled "Behind the Scenes of Bitcoin Magazine."


Eat now, BM later.

[DeathAndTaxes]

And since when does bitcoin earn interest? That's a fiat concoction.

What made you think that?  

Anything can be repaid with interest.  I could give you a hamburger loan with expectation you will repay me two hamburgers next Tuesday.

Since money is an idea, you can create as much as you want from nothing, so it makes sense for interest to exist there. Bitcoin isn't just an idea, but a digital implementation of a finite resource, barring fundamental changes to the system, there won't be more than originally designed, so the idea of interest in such a system is incompatible.

What the hell are you rambling on about?

Interest is simply the transfer of wealth from debtor to the creditor.  Nothing more.  It doesn't require more currency to be created.
Interest existed long before fiat money and borrowing 100 oz gold and repaying it with interest didn't magically cause more gold to appear from nowhere.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=65.0

[acoindr]

And since when does bitcoin earn interest? That's a fiat concoction.

What made you think that?  

Anything can be repaid with interest.  I could give you a hamburger loan with expectation you will repay me two hamburgers next Tuesday.

In LightRider's defense, fiat money does encourage unwise financial models which in a true free market would be met with tough market regulation and fairly swift penalty (see CDOs, and CDSs). Since interest is morally debatable, it's easy to confuse it as being a non-sound practice.

[bitfoo]

In LightRider's defense, fiat money does encourage unwise financial models which in a true free market would be met with tough market regulation and fairly swift penalty (see CDOs, and CDSs). Since interest is morally debatable, it's easy to confuse it as being a non-sound practice.

Ahem.

Bitcoin CDO: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76515.0
Bitcoin CDS: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74552.0, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74586.0

[kiba]

Let me be the first to say: Even if you do ship the mazine out today, you still fucked up and owe us all an apology and interest on all the money you held for all this time.

Real business ships.

[acoindr]

In LightRider's defense, fiat money does encourage unwise financial models which in a true free market would be met with tough market regulation and fairly swift penalty (see CDOs, and CDSs). Since interest is morally debatable, it's easy to confuse it as being a non-sound practice.

Ahem.

Bitcoin CDO: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76515.0
Bitcoin CDS: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74552.0, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74586.0

I'm quite aware of the foray into Bitcoin CDSs (I hadn't seen the CDO thread). These are fine as they will be toughly regulated by the market, as I said. Call me when they have trillions of currency units (or even millions in the case of BTC) behind them.

[Matthew N. Wright]

Even though I'd love to give the exact print date here, the management at Bitcoin Magazine won't allow me and instead direct you to a press release on Tuesday, May 1st, 2012 at 10:00AM. It's news I am sure everyone (except trolls/detractors) will be very happy to hear.

It's been a fun ride getting to this point, but now it's time to say goodbye to all the trolls and start representing the Bitcoin community in a professional way that will actually bring people into it instead of scaring them away.

Keep a close eye on http://www.bitcoinmagazine.net starting Tuesday, May 1st, 2012 at 10AM as I will no longer be giving announcements on this thread.

Thanks for the wait everyone!


Press release: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/5/prweb9463303.htm

[Matthew N. Wright]

UPDATE: The first issue of the magazine is starting to trickle in to all of our subscribers! Such a glorious day!  I hope all the negative detractors can swallow their pride and be constructive enough to help us move on and make each month's issue better and better by providing us with valuable feedback.

Thanks for the support everyone!

(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83530)