NEM Official Non-Moderated Thread [Updates & Discussion]

[EFFV]

Posted this on Trello.
This is now the official thread of NEM.

Added this to the official forum incase anybody checks. http://forum.nemcoin.com/index.php?topic=2202.new#new
Im working on Reddit now.
Edit Completed
http://www.reddit.com/r/nem/comments/280w0n/new_updates_discussion_thread_on_btt/

[1715635350]

1715635350

[mladen00]

Devs, you have all my support.
Nem is the best project in cryptocoin's world

UF did a mistake (and paid a price)...but we all are just humans

Respect

[rockethead]

As far as I know, UP only had one sockpuppet that he intended to use, which is legal under the rules (you can have 1 other stake). The other ones he created just to promote the thread and he was planning to donate those to the devs for development and marketing.

To be honest, I don't think it is a big deal, but maybe I am too jaded from all the scams on BTT  

But NEM is really up to YOU, the community. I really hope you will stand behind us devs, because we have been working hard without breaks for months on this.

Let me tell you a little about myself. I am a PhD computer science student and I came up with the idea for POI based on research I have been doing since 2006. I was supposed to graduate at the end of this school year, but delayed my graduation by 1 year to work on NEM. The other devs are at least as committed as I am and I hope that the community will continue to be with us.

Together, let's build a NEW ECONOMY based on the principles of: 1) financial freedom, 2) decentralization, and 3) equality of opportunity.

In solidarity.

Thanks for letting us know a bit about yourself. You will be an inspiration one day. And I hope you finish your PhD and make a name for yourself one day.

This is a sacrifice few would dare think about.

[EFFV]

As far as I know, UP only had one sockpuppet that he intended to use, which is legal under the rules (you can have 1 other stake). The other ones he created just to promote the thread and he was planning to donate those to the devs for development and marketing.

To be honest, I don't think it is a big deal, but maybe I am too jaded from all the scams on BTT  

But NEM is really up to YOU, the community. I really hope you will stand behind us devs, because we have been working hard without breaks for months on this.

Let me tell you a little about myself. I am a PhD computer science student and I came up with the idea for POI based on research I have been doing since 2006. I was supposed to graduate at the end of this school year, but delayed my graduation by 1 year to work on NEM. The other devs are at least as committed as I am and I hope that the community will continue to be with us.

Together, let's build a NEW ECONOMY based on the principles of: 1) financial freedom, 2) decentralization, and 3) equality of opportunity.

In solidarity.

Thanks for letting us know a bit about yourself. You will be an inspiration one day. And I hope you finish your PhD and make a name for yourself one day.

This is a sacrifice few would dare think about.

hats off for Makoto. Thank you for your sacrifice.

[makoto1337]

[EFFV]

haha +1

[Pentamon]

I am convinced that NEM will continue.

It might be a good time to rethink future distributions, though.

I think to truly bridge generations, we will have to consider a mechanism whereby stakes are issued all the time, one for each human, even years from now. Is such an approach possible with NEM?

See the concept of 'Proof of Person - Equal Stake' here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=650482.0

Pentamon

[xtester]

As far as I know, UP only had one sockpuppet that he intended to use, which is legal under the rules (you can have 1 other stake). The other ones he created just to promote the thread and he was planning to donate those to the devs for development and marketing.

To be honest, I don't think it is a big deal, but maybe I am too jaded from all the scams on BTT 

But NEM is really up to YOU, the community. I really hope you will stand behind us devs, because we have been working hard without breaks for months on this.

Let me tell you a little about myself. I am a PhD computer science student and I came up with the idea for POI based on research I have been doing since 2006. I was supposed to graduate at the end of this school year, but delayed my graduation by 1 year to work on NEM. The other devs are at least as committed as I am and I hope that the community will continue to be with us.

Together, let's build a NEW ECONOMY based on the principles of: 1) financial freedom, 2) decentralization, and 3) equality of opportunity.

In solidarity.

Thanks for letting us know a bit about yourself. You will be an inspiration one day. And I hope you finish your PhD and make a name for yourself one day.

This is a sacrifice few would dare think about.

Agree with you, albeit with e a minor correction:

Thanks for letting us know a bit about yourself. You will be an inspiration one day. And I hope we make NEM bigger than bitcoin, you make a name for yourself and continue the PhD only out of pleasure if you want.

[rockethead]

UtopianFuture did not scam anyone.  What he did was equivalent to buying fake likes on Facebook and Twitter.  All he did was create sockpuppet accounts, to pad popularity in the initial weeks of NEM, and he later took them off the stakeholder list.  This is a tactic done by practically every coin out there.  Satoshi likely had a dozen aliases in 2009 to promote Bitcoin.

Think hard about it - UtopianFuture had nothing to do with the taint analysis (others were in charge and it was open to anyone willing to volunteer).  If UtopianFuture still had his sock puppets then he would had been busted hard, no way (under any fantasy scenario) could he had kept 100s of sockpuppets (let alone a dozen or five of them).

UtopianFuture at best probably only had 2 to 5 sockpuppets total (later removed) but now he has zero and persumably no developer stake anymore.  

You don't know any of this. All of your words are 100% conjecture.

No, they are not.  Anyone who is familiar with NEM would know that we had an open, transparent, taint analysis which last for several months.  Anyone was able to review the list of stakeholders and weed out sockpuppets, hundreds were removed that way.  UF's sockpuppet accounts were gone from the list before taint analysis began and the registrations ended.

You keep trolling and insisting that UtopianFuture had 100s of sockpuppets but it's a rhetorical fallacy as taint analysis would had weeded him out months ago, and that hypothetical scandal which would way worse than UtopianFuture padding fake popularity in NEM back in January.

The reality is this - NEM has over 1000 veteran stakeholders and it has the fairest distribution in crypto history.  That's compared to your NxT / Qora / Sim which had distributions to less than 100 accounts (of which, due to lack of taint analysis, was arguably only a dozen or so real people).
.

UF has already admitted to having more sockpuppet accounts than you are willing to admit he had, ergo, your opinion is meaningless.

Even if UF had 5, 10, hell, 50 sockpuppets the distribution would still be leaps and bounds better than any other IPO. This is honestly retarded how much attention this is getting.

If there wasn't any attention and fanfare given to all these, it would certainly have led to more greed and dishonesty. I guess all this is relative in comparison. The question we should really ask ourselves is, do we want to come clean in all these or compare ourselves with the myriad of intentional or greed driven intentions of dishonesty out there with many of these coins?

Like computer logic, honesty and fairness are binary. You either come out clean or you come out dirty. Doesn't matter who is more tainted and therefore one should not then say, "There are many more crooks out there that are even worse than us". The point is there was a dishonest person, no matter how big or small it was. In reality, the person would be taken to court and most probably tried and  incriminated. That's the severity of the matter. It is no small matter and is tantamount to criminal breach of trust. What more the charter of NEM was meant to be altruistic by all measure created by the very person himself. Enough said.

So, I would recommend anyone to please refrain from defending how clean so and so is in the name of NEM. It makes one suspect that this "defender" is another sockpuppet of UP. What we really need to do is to be more vigilant and comb through the stakeholders' list and get it all tidied up.

The problem with human nature is that one can do a million good but if there is one mistake made, the person is remembered for life of his/her wrongdoing.

I would also refrain from making baseless nonsensical superfluous and emotional statements. Let bygone be bygone.

And to all the dev team, there is still room for you to correct the right from wrong as you guys have the final control and release. The Nem Stakes are nominal in value and not finally dished out as NEMs. If I were to do it, I would look at the original stakeholders list seriously and decide if there were any errors or cheating there before the release of NEM as an official coin. Of course for the 430 NemStakes that are already being traded have to be recognised as true stakeholders as they have already gone out. Of the remaining, 2.57K units, please do some due diligence on them.


 

[makoto1337]

I am convinced that NEM will continue.

It might be a good time to rethink future distributions, though.

I think to truly bridge generations, we will have to consider a mechanism whereby stakes are issued all the time, one for each human, even years from now. Is such an approach possible with NEM?

See the concept of 'Proof of Person - Equal Stake' here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=650482.0

Pentamon

We are kind of thinking about redistributing unused accounts with transaction fees if the account is inactive for, say, 20 years.

[rockethead]

As far as I know, UP only had one sockpuppet that he intended to use, which is legal under the rules (you can have 1 other stake). The other ones he created just to promote the thread and he was planning to donate those to the devs for development and marketing.

To be honest, I don't think it is a big deal, but maybe I am too jaded from all the scams on BTT 

But NEM is really up to YOU, the community. I really hope you will stand behind us devs, because we have been working hard without breaks for months on this.

Let me tell you a little about myself. I am a PhD computer science student and I came up with the idea for POI based on research I have been doing since 2006. I was supposed to graduate at the end of this school year, but delayed my graduation by 1 year to work on NEM. The other devs are at least as committed as I am and I hope that the community will continue to be with us.

Together, let's build a NEW ECONOMY based on the principles of: 1) financial freedom, 2) decentralization, and 3) equality of opportunity.

In solidarity.

Thanks for letting us know a bit about yourself. You will be an inspiration one day. And I hope you finish your PhD and make a name for yourself one day.

This is a sacrifice few would dare think about.

Agree with you, albeit with e a minor correction:

Thanks for letting us know a bit about yourself. You will be an inspiration one day. And I hope we make NEM bigger than bitcoin, you make a name for yourself and continue the PhD only out of pleasure if you want.

Well, if NEM is bigger than bitcoin, Makoto will get his PhD for sure without completing the motion. Why? Because NEM will then be the king of cryptos and whoever makes it that way deserve a standing ovation and the honor, not just Makoto, but the whole core dev team that provided the means to do so!

Having said that, we still need a reputable driver today to unveil the power of this "new engine" of Tesla proportions!

[Eadeqa]

I'll be happy to answer any questions anyone else has relating to NEM. I think Jaguar or Gimre will come and start a new official thread and we will regroup in a day or two.

Is UP still getting same amount of dev stakes?

[makoto1337]

UtopianFuture did not scam anyone.  What he did was equivalent to buying fake likes on Facebook and Twitter.  All he did was create sockpuppet accounts, to pad popularity in the initial weeks of NEM, and he later took them off the stakeholder list.  This is a tactic done by practically every coin out there.  Satoshi likely had a dozen aliases in 2009 to promote Bitcoin.

Think hard about it - UtopianFuture had nothing to do with the taint analysis (others were in charge and it was open to anyone willing to volunteer).  If UtopianFuture still had his sock puppets then he would had been busted hard, no way (under any fantasy scenario) could he had kept 100s of sockpuppets (let alone a dozen or five of them).

UtopianFuture at best probably only had 2 to 5 sockpuppets total (later removed) but now he has zero and persumably no developer stake anymore.  

You don't know any of this. All of your words are 100% conjecture.

No, they are not.  Anyone who is familiar with NEM would know that we had an open, transparent, taint analysis which last for several months.  Anyone was able to review the list of stakeholders and weed out sockpuppets, hundreds were removed that way.  UF's sockpuppet accounts were gone from the list before taint analysis began and the registrations ended.

You keep trolling and insisting that UtopianFuture had 100s of sockpuppets but it's a rhetorical fallacy as taint analysis would had weeded him out months ago, and that hypothetical scandal which would way worse than UtopianFuture padding fake popularity in NEM back in January.

The reality is this - NEM has over 1000 veteran stakeholders and it has the fairest distribution in crypto history.  That's compared to your NxT / Qora / Sim which had distributions to less than 100 accounts (of which, due to lack of taint analysis, was arguably only a dozen or so real people).
.

UF has already admitted to having more sockpuppet accounts than you are willing to admit he had, ergo, your opinion is meaningless.

Even if UF had 5, 10, hell, 50 sockpuppets the distribution would still be leaps and bounds better than any other IPO. This is honestly retarded how much attention this is getting.

If there wasn't any attention and fanfare given to all these, it would certainly have led to more greed and dishonesty. I guess all this is relative in comparison. The question we should really ask ourselves is, do we want to come clean in all these or compare ourselves with the myriad of intentional or greed driven intentions of dishonesty out there with many of these coins?

Like computer logic, honesty and fairness are binary. You either come out clean or you come out dirty. Doesn't matter who is more tainted and therefore one should not then say, "There are many more crooks out there that are even worse than us". The point is there was a dishonest person, no matter how big or small it was. In reality, the person would be taken to court and most probably tried and  incriminated. That's the severity of the matter. It is no small matter and is tantamount to criminal breach of trust. What more the charter of NEM was meant to be altruistic by all measure created by the very person himself. Enough said.

So, I would recommend anyone to please refrain from defending how clean so and so is in the name of NEM. It makes one suspect that this "defender" is another sockpuppet of UP. What we really need to do is to be more vigilant and comb through the stakeholders' list and get it all tidied up.

The problem with human nature is that one can do a million good but if there is one mistake made, the person is remembered for life of his/her wrongdoing.

I would also refrain from making baseless nonsensical superfluous and emotional statements. Let bygone be bygone.

And to all the dev team, there is still room for you to correct the right from wrong as you guys have the final control and release. The Nem Stakes are nominal in value and not finally dished out as NEMs. If I were to do it, I would look at the original stakeholders list seriously and decide if there were any errors or cheating there before the release of NEM as an official coin. Of course for the 430 NemStakes that are already being traded have to be recognised as true stakeholders as they have already gone out. Of the remaining, 2.57K units, please do some due diligence on them.

How about the story of Angulimala 央掘魔羅 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angulimala)? It is said that he killed 999 people, but then reached enlightenment and was thus redeemed. In Judaism/Christianity, was not the first sin "knowing good and evil"? I don't think it is good to judge as either good or bad. Just let it be, but move forward and do the right thing.

[sparta_cuss]

As for UF...
"A man's reach ought to exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?"

[Eadeqa]

As far as I know, UP only had one sockpuppet that he intended to use, which is legal under the rules (you can have 1 other stake). The other ones he created just to promote the thread and he was planning to donate those to the devs for development and marketing.

He got caught with one but admitted he has others but "forgot" the passwords (a claim that I believe tells me he is still dishonest and isn't telling the truth -- there is no way in hell I am forgetting passwords of accounts I used to send money).

[makoto1337]

I'll be happy to answer any questions anyone else has relating to NEM. I think Jaguar or Gimre will come and start a new official thread and we will regroup in a day or two.

Is UP still getting same amount of dev stakes?

No idea, but that will have to be decided in the days to come. UP has spent a lot of his personal time and money working for NEM (more than 99% of stakeholders), so I feel he should at least get something.

[EFFV]

Announcing Official Thread for Updates & Discussion

Since the recent breakdown the community has worked hard to update the locked threads. Special Thanks to Tau Muon, Makoto, Jaguar, Will Caldwell, and all other dedicated devs and community members. Welcome to the new thread. This is a huge turning point in NEM, and this quick recovery should instill faith in our progress.

I will post the original update post here instead of in the main body now.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A Statement on the Most Recent NEM Development

   
While the loss of Utopian Future is regrettable and unfortunate NEM must plod forward. We have brilliant devs that have written a client that seems to be unmatched in style, and innovative in technology. Utopian Future is one human. He did wrong. However, the largest and most innovative coins have all had their developers disappear early on. This is not a facet of NEM that should be overlooked. NEM is a movement; it is not defined by the hypocritical decision of one member.  Every stakeholder is a member of this community.  In distributed environments centralization, however small, poses a threat. Hence Utopian made the honorable and just decision to step down. The community consisting of the echelons of developers, marketers, and users must not lose faith in the product at hand.  This is paramount to the success of NEM.
   
Similarly to how distributed and decentralized systems are not determined based on the flaws of one node, NEM is not based on the flaws of one member. Open source and free software is based on the totality of the community, of which NEM is blessed. For this reason the future of NEM is in your hands, not the hands of any conglomerate, bank, or individual. If you are a new member do not fall for Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.  The brilliance of NEM brings on many enemies.  
   
History proves that the best opportunities are in time of great uncertainty. Such is the same for NEM.

-EFFV


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Official post from Utopian Future   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg7279112#msg7279112

Thanks to all & goodnight.

[CoinManiac]

Look at NXT, after all the bashing about distribution, look where NXT is ri8 now.

NEM was developed so that everyone can be a part of it, to remove what NXT cannot achieve.

So be happy what UtopianFuture did for us, instead of calling him a scammer

[Eadeqa]

I'll be happy to answer any questions anyone else has relating to NEM. I think Jaguar or Gimre will come and start a new official thread and we will regroup in a day or two.

Is UP still getting same amount of dev stakes?

No idea, but that will have to be decided in the days to come. UP has spent a lot of his personal time and money working for NEM (more than 99% of stakeholders), so I feel he should at least get something.

I agree. He deserves some credit but not as much as Jaguar for example, but I always thought 25% reserved development stakes was way to high since not everyone on the list will claim their stakes. These unclaimed stakes could be used in future for development.

For example Nxt had 100 stakeholders and in the end only 73 came back to claim their stakes. These unclaimed coins went into different development and marketing committees. This ratio will be even higher for Nem due to 6 or 7 month delay.

I think you should rethink this strategy.

[Thingamajig]

It's good to see this result.

Ultimately, as one of a thousand "veteran" stakeholders, despite what may have happend with UP, the distribution of NEM is still by far one of the best i've seen.

I'm glad to see things delt with accordingly, and a desire to press forward to what otherwise is, and will be, an extremely worthwhile project.

Although I do feel UP made a mistake, and shouldn't have done what he did, handling it in the manner which it was was the best course of action and not only am i thankful for that, i'm also thankful for his initial contribution into the project. Hopefully this is a lesson learned for alot of people and I'm eager to see how this project progresses further.