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[Malibusparky]

Thinking for the long long term and big picture for Crypti, how can it be if regular pc can not be reliable uptime.
Isn't it too centralized to depend on cloud computing to run delegates with high uptime?

How can Crypti be big as or bigger than Bitcoin one day if that is so?
Are devs working on this specific problem or not yet?

[Malibusparky]

Curious to know if any Crypti dev team members follow skycoin?
They are so smart and over my head but if they are right or do half the things they say they can does Crypti compete?

[Litoshi]

Thinking for the long long term and big picture for Crypti, how can it be if regular pc can not be reliable uptime.
Isn't it too centralized to depend on cloud computing to run delegates with high uptime?

How can Crypti be big as or bigger than Bitcoin one day if that is so?
Are devs working on this specific problem or not yet?

We, in fact, I tried , to use my home PC to forge as a delegate.  So did another dev.  We found that the forging was hitting about 40% instead of 100%.  The reason was because of the 10 second block times.  It just takes too long for a DSL connected computer to receive, hash, and return a block before the 10 seconds times out.  We found that the delegates that were closest to the internet backbone forged the best percentage.

If we wanted to make it possible for home PCs to forge, we would have to increase the block times to 15 or 20 seconds.  That is unacceptable.  With the 10 second blocks, we can confirm a transaction in 60 to 100 seconds.  BitCoin has 10 minute blocks, and you need 1.5 hours to confirm a transaction.  That is why we are better than BTC. 

To run a delegate, it is recommended that you use Vultr or other cloud services, that charge $5 a month.  My delegate is there, and is forging around 99% now.

[Litoshi]

Curious to know if any Crypti dev team members follow skycoin?
They are so smart and over my head but if they are right or do half the things they say they can does Crypti compete?

Compete?  Yes and no.

If you mean "compete" as in "OMG, they have something we dont, Hurry up, lets copy it"....... no we dont do that.

If you mean "compete" as in "We are developing an exceptional product; everyone will be trying to copy us soon".... then Yes, we are that.

[Passion_ltc]

Thinking for the long long term and big picture for Crypti, how can it be if regular pc can not be reliable uptime.
Isn't it too centralized to depend on cloud computing to run delegates with high uptime?

How can Crypti be big as or bigger than Bitcoin one day if that is so?
Are devs working on this specific problem or not yet?

It's not centralized. We have nodes in over 20 different locations in the world. China, Japan, Philippines, Australia, many Europe countries, several different states in the USA, and so on. This is decentralized enough already.

[Malibusparky]

Thinking for the long long term and big picture for Crypti, how can it be if regular pc can not be reliable uptime.
Isn't it too centralized to depend on cloud computing to run delegates with high uptime?

How can Crypti be big as or bigger than Bitcoin one day if that is so?
Are devs working on this specific problem or not yet?

It's not centralized. We have nodes in over 20 different locations in the world. China, Japan, Philippines, Australia, many Europe countries, several different states in the USA, and so on. This is decentralized enough already.

I understand that but what I mean by centralized is all the delegates are relying on a cloud computing service. For now sounds fine.
But we want crypti be hundred billion in daily worldwide volume in future. If all delegates rely on private company service to host their node
then its centralized. Govt can shut down. Or Amazon can blacklist aws accounts running crypti because it hurt their business. Get what I'm trying to say?

Beauty of a crypto was bitcoin anyone can mine their pc. Pos coin anyone can forge they need some coin and cheap pc no electricity waste.
Crypti has delegates which I like. But the delegate themselves need freedom to run it in non third party relying ways. Don't you think?

[MalReynolds]

Thinking for the long long term and big picture for Crypti, how can it be if regular pc can not be reliable uptime.
Isn't it too centralized to depend on cloud computing to run delegates with high uptime?

How can Crypti be big as or bigger than Bitcoin one day if that is so?
Are devs working on this specific problem or not yet?

It's not centralized. We have nodes in over 20 different locations in the world. China, Japan, Philippines, Australia, many Europe countries, several different states in the USA, and so on. This is decentralized enough already.

I understand that but what I mean by centralized is all the delegates are relying on a cloud computing service. For now sounds fine.
But we want crypti be hundred billion in daily worldwide volume in future. If all delegates rely on private company service to host their node
then its centralized. Govt can shut down. Or Amazon can blacklist aws accounts running crypti because it hurt their business. Get what I'm trying to say?

Beauty of a crypto was bitcoin anyone can mine their pc. Pos coin anyone can forge they need some coin and cheap pc no electricity waste.
Crypti has delegates which I like. But the delegate themselves need freedom to run it in non third party relying ways. Don't you think?

Actually, there is a related problem I think is more serious that won't be fixed by going from cloud servers to local PCs, and that is susceptibility to DDoS attack.  NXT got hit with this when they were first setting up their network and it nearly sunk them.  Limiting the active forgers to the 101 Club with a ten-second response time means there's a relatively limited infrastructure with little time to waste on spoof packets.  It would be interesting to see some of the devs comment specifically on how vulnerable Crypti is to DDoS and how they plan to deal with the DDoS attack that IS COMING once Crypti starts gaining wider acceptance...

http://www.prolexic.com/knowledge-center-about-ddos-attacks-faq.html

"...it is possible to rent 80,000 -120,000 hosts capable of launching distributed denial of service (DDoS) attacks of 10 to 100Gbps – more than enough to take out practically any popular site on the Internet for just US$200 per 24 hours."

I would suggest that we start coming up with mods to the code to create a network of "back channel" IP address for members of the 101 Club that ONLY THEY KNOW AMONG THEMSELVES and that they use to communicate as a first line of defense.  DDoS is most effective against publically known IP addresses and Crypti has the luxury of being able to create a darknet for the 101 Club...

[starik69]

It's not centralized. We have nodes in over 20 different locations in the world. China, Japan, Philippines, Australia, many Europe countries, several different states in the USA, and so on. This is decentralized enough already.

No, it is surely centralized if controlled by one person or one group of persons. 
Geographic locations does not equal decentralization

[Litoshi]

Mal, interesting post about DDOS attacks.  Let me comment.

The Delegates in our system, once voted into the 101 Club, remain there even if they fail to forge blocks sent to them.  There is not a system presently to demote a non-performing delegate to standby status.  Vultr shut off a dozen of our delegates yesterday due to a billing change (they dont bill PayPal accounts anymore).  We still had a viable network with only 90 delegates running.  I was unable to access my delegate on Vutr.  I simply opened the node on my laptop, and forged for 3 hours at home until Eric could straighten it out.  His delegates were offline for that period.

In every 101 block cycle, there are one or more blocks that dont get forged by the randomly chosen delegate.  The unforged block is sent to another delegate, and another until it is forged.  An attacker would have to DDOS  all 101 delegates at the same time to stop the network.  

The delegates are presently on cloud servers because they performed poorly on laptop and home PCs.  It is possible to run the network from home computers, its just slower and only has a 75% forging rate (for my computer anyway).  

[Litoshi]

It's not centralized. We have nodes in over 20 different locations in the world. China, Japan, Philippines, Australia, many Europe countries, several different states in the USA, and so on. This is decentralized enough already.

No, it is surely centralized if controlled by one person or one group of persons. 
Geographic locations does not equal decentralization

The foundation only controls 11% of the coins/votes.  It was 15% at the IPO.  4% has been used for bounties, and the faucet.

The devs own individually another 20%.  Most of this has been purchased since the IPO.  After the IPO, the devs only had 5% of the XCR.

SO there is 69% of the XCR owned outside of the devs.  23% is at Bter, 8% Crypty, and I believe 12% at Polo. 

Does not sound central to me. 

You are just upset becuz you cant get enough votes to forge.      

[Malibusparky]

The delegates are presently on cloud servers because they performed poorly on laptop and home PCs.  It is possible to run the network from home computers, its just slower and only has a 75% forging rate (for my computer anyway).  

So its still possible that pc can have very good uptime its just most present delegate use cloud. We just need some more delegate or standby delegate to try.
I can not have a reliable pc run 24 hours now or I would test it.

But lets assume most pc can not uptime better than 75% isn't this something Boris should try and fix? If it is fixable?
For crypti to scale in the future is not important for pc to reliably forge with high uptime for delegate?

Again maybe it is just Litoshi pc and internet that is not perform well. We should see if others can forge well with pc.
Otherwise fix it if it can.

[Litoshi]

The delegates are presently on cloud servers because they performed poorly on laptop and home PCs.  It is possible to run the network from home computers, its just slower and only has a 75% forging rate (for my computer anyway).  

So its still possible that pc can have very good uptime its just most present delegate use cloud. We just need some more delegate or standby delegate to try.
I can not have a reliable pc run 24 hours now or I would test it.

But lets assume most pc can not uptime better than 75% isn't this something Boris should try and fix? If it is fixable?
For crypti to scale in the future is not important for pc to reliably forge with high uptime for delegate?

Again maybe it is just Litoshi pc and internet that is not perform well. We should see if others can forge well with pc.
Otherwise fix it if it can.

My PC is recent state of the art, with a 4 core CPU.  The problem with home computers for forging as a delegate is the 10 second block times.  I am on a DSL line.  The time it takes for the information to be transmitted both ways thru the DSL, to the fibre, to the internet backbone is just too close to the 10 seconds to forge more than 75% of the time successfully. 

The fix is to lengthen the block times to 15 or 20 seconds, but this will greatly expand the confirm times for transactions.  We are trying to be the fastest confirmation crypto.   Hmm, might be interesting to try 5 second blocks?

[Passion_ltc]

The delegates are presently on cloud servers because they performed poorly on laptop and home PCs.  It is possible to run the network from home computers, its just slower and only has a 75% forging rate (for my computer anyway).  

So its still possible that pc can have very good uptime its just most present delegate use cloud. We just need some more delegate or standby delegate to try.
I can not have a reliable pc run 24 hours now or I would test it.

But lets assume most pc can not uptime better than 75% isn't this something Boris should try and fix? If it is fixable?
For crypti to scale in the future is not important for pc to reliably forge with high uptime for delegate?

Again maybe it is just Litoshi pc and internet that is not perform well. We should see if others can forge well with pc.
Otherwise fix it if it can.

I think for now we should look only a year into the future. If we have a dozens of times more volume than Bitcoin, I think we will have the capacities to re-structure the system.

For now we don't have the capacities and will use the system we have now, which is very good for the size we have and will have in the next few years. It's already very scaleable. If we will grow to such a big size some day, that the decentralization is a very important role, bc governments wants to shut us down, we will think of something different.

Also, if Crypti really would be used to move "hundred billion" a day, then we have to make entirely new decisions. Like block size and blockchain size.

[Malibusparky]

I remember Litoshi said he lives in remote area. Maybe forging delegate in the city can keep uptime better?
Again we have to test this with others.

Right now crypti is not valuable. But later if crypti has value and is responsible for billions daily such a valuable network
can not be dependent on third party cloud services to run the node. That is the kind of centralized aspect.
A delegate running his reliable node from his home or dedicated setup that he controls fully is more trustworthy
than rely on amazon who can close your account.

[Malibusparky]

The delegates are presently on cloud servers because they performed poorly on laptop and home PCs.  It is possible to run the network from home computers, its just slower and only has a 75% forging rate (for my computer anyway).  

So its still possible that pc can have very good uptime its just most present delegate use cloud. We just need some more delegate or standby delegate to try.
I can not have a reliable pc run 24 hours now or I would test it.

But lets assume most pc can not uptime better than 75% isn't this something Boris should try and fix? If it is fixable?
For crypti to scale in the future is not important for pc to reliably forge with high uptime for delegate?

Again maybe it is just Litoshi pc and internet that is not perform well. We should see if others can forge well with pc.
Otherwise fix it if it can.

I think for now we should look only a year into the future. If we have a dozens of times more volume than Bitcoin, I think we will have the capacities to re-structure the system.

For now we don't have the capacities and will use the system we have now, which is very good for the size we have and will have in the next few years. It's already very scaleable. If we will grow to such a big size some day, that the decentralization is a very important role, bc governments wants to shut us down, we will think of something different.

Also, if Crypti really would be used to move "hundred billion" a day, then we have to make entirely new decisions. Like block size and blockchain size.

Fair answer. But would still like "ability" for regular pc or raspberry to be reliable node if wanted.

[Passion_ltc]

The delegates are presently on cloud servers because they performed poorly on laptop and home PCs.  It is possible to run the network from home computers, its just slower and only has a 75% forging rate (for my computer anyway). 

So its still possible that pc can have very good uptime its just most present delegate use cloud. We just need some more delegate or standby delegate to try.
I can not have a reliable pc run 24 hours now or I would test it.

But lets assume most pc can not uptime better than 75% isn't this something Boris should try and fix? If it is fixable?
For crypti to scale in the future is not important for pc to reliably forge with high uptime for delegate?

Again maybe it is just Litoshi pc and internet that is not perform well. We should see if others can forge well with pc.
Otherwise fix it if it can.

I think for now we should look only a year into the future. If we have a dozens of times more volume than Bitcoin, I think we will have the capacities to re-structure the system.

For now we don't have the capacities and will use the system we have now, which is very good for the size we have and will have in the next few years. It's already very scaleable. If we will grow to such a big size some day, that the decentralization is a very important role, bc governments wants to shut us down, we will think of something different.

Also, if Crypti really would be used to move "hundred billion" a day, then we have to make entirely new decisions. Like block size and blockchain size.

Fair answer. But would still like "ability" for regular pc or raspberry to be reliable node if wanted.

Yes, me too. We have very close connections to guys, doing a full-node device for Bitcoin. Similar to a Raspberry Pi. If you want, I can try it out on a RasPi. Will take some time through.

[Malibusparky]

Yes, me too. We have very close connections to guys, doing a full-node device for Bitcoin. Similar to a Raspberry Pi. If you want, I can try it out on a RasPi. Will take some time through.

I just want to make sure we think of all potential hurdle that prevent us from real success. In crypto lots of projects failing.
Crypti has probably the best team and such a good potential.

[Passion_ltc]

Yes, me too. We have very close connections to guys, doing a full-node device for Bitcoin. Similar to a Raspberry Pi. If you want, I can try it out on a RasPi. Will take some time through.

I just want to make sure we think of all potential hurdle that prevent us from real success. In crypto lots of projects failing.
Crypti has probably the best team and such a good potential.

Sure.

Personally(!), I think we need to step a bit back from the Bitcoin method (decentralization over everything) and a step closer to the conventional methods. In my opinion(!) we have more success with this.

I.e. everything is built on top of an (enough) decentralized platform, to ensure it stays online and the tokens are indeed limited. But with kind of centralized efforts, like a fixxed team or building dapps for conventional gadgets (phones, tablets).

[starik69]

Does not sound central to me. 

When 69% are silent 31% become 100%.
So it is again centralized.

[GreXX]

It's not centralized. We have nodes in over 20 different locations in the world. China, Japan, Philippines, Australia, many Europe countries, several different states in the USA, and so on. This is decentralized enough already.

No, it is surely centralized if controlled by one person or one group of persons. 
Geographic locations does not equal decentralization

With any Crypto Currency based on Proof of Stake or Proof of any kind of holdings, like NXT, there is always the potential for it to become centralized at any point. If Bill Gates or the like decided tomorrow to come buy every coin in existence, and they controlled 100% or even 75% of the currency, they should potentially be able to take down the network, correct?

Even in Bitcoin, if Bill gates wanted to buy $1 Billion worth of equipment and start mining, he could seriously disrupt the industry and network. This is a problem for any currency. If someone wealthy got it in their head, they could manipulate, monopolize, or even shut down the market at any point.

To make Crypto less in the hands of the original investors, we need to find a convincing feature set to get public adoption, and we need to find a convincing price point to get initial whales to sell large stakes of their holdings and "spread the wealth" so to speak.

We are still in our infancy with only 1/3rd of the intended features even live. Give it time.