Bitmark

[Androidicus]

It is fine to forget the Bitmark logo and color, getMarked must stand alone.
A 'Mark' is a different unit, it is giving reputation, later paying.

Androidicus, I think you have identified that we should use a checkmark, well done.
Can we design a Checkmark to look subtly like a currency symbol?

... and put the work 'mark' beside it? consider this button to sit in a row with others [ 'like' 'tweet' 'mark' 'pin' ]

Stick to monochromatic, add a color later if we need one.

Added:



Also:



All are roughs...

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[coinsolidation]

how many bitmark total coin?

All information can be found on the wiki

Main Topic. Today we are discussing the proposal at http://getmarked.org/

^{getMarked Funding Goal: 0.7/8 BTC, with 1 BTC pledged.}

[holylacross]

Great community, great coin. Really glad to see an very active dev with a very active and resourceful community. I'll definitely be sticking around and helping where I can.

[82ndabnmedic]

Great community, great coin. Really glad to see an very active dev with a very active and resourceful community. I'll definitely be sticking around and helping where I can.

Respectfully, the terms accepted by this community are Bitmark & Marks as a unit of Bitmark. 
1 Bitmark
1 Mark = 0.001 Bitmark


I do hope you continue to follow our discussion, and encourage others do do the same.

[82ndabnmedic]

Bitmark has quickly gained momentum on this front. The progress made on getmarked.org is remarkable (pun intended). I am looking forward to the experience of being marked, by getmarked, for the first time.  

edited to add - Androidicus: You are definitely on the right track. I enjoy the font used on the second proposed button. Even though it is monochromatic, It looks great.

[coinsolidation]

Bitmark has quickly gained momentum on this front. The progress made on getmarked.org is remarkable (pun intended). I am looking forward to the experience of being marked, by getmarked, for the first time.  

You already can by playing a game. Last night I read the proposal to my wife, and she understood most of it, for sure the parts a user needs to. We grabbed some loose change and began playing 'getMarked', the part which is like reddit with more flows of reputation (marks).

You put something down and mark it with a coin, you have said 'this is good, here is a mark'.

The marker is then publicly listed on getMarked, under your public feed of marked things, and the main stream of marked things.

Others can see what you have marked, and also mark it too.

You get all of the marks given to the thing you marked.. you 'get marked'.

Claimed rule.
If the thing is claimed as being created by another user of getMarked then you get half the marks generated through your marker and the creator gets half the marks.

If you create something good and claim it by having the getMarked button on it, and many people mark it in different ways, each of them get a portion of the marks, and you get half of the sum of all marks given.

Spam
If somebody tries to spam, they have to spend a mark to post the spam, nobody marks it and they have wasted a mark.

Downmarking is not included
If down marking is included, then any downmark costs a mark. The first markers mark is refunded by this mark and uncounted from the total.
At this point the marker has his mark back, the content creator still has the mark, and the downmarker has one mark less.
This starts a war, as the marker can mark the thing again giving another mark to the content creator, and costing the downmarker another mark to remove!
This prevents actions of bad actors, when a competitor tries do remove content and similar scenarios.
The problem comes with spam, if a spammer with two accounts marks his own content, he gets all the marks from every downmarker repeatedly.
So it is not included.
We tried different setups but could not find a way to make 'downmarking' work.

If anybody could find a way to make 'downmarking' work, it would be very fun.

^{getMarked Funding Goal: 0.7/8 BTC, with 1 BTC pledged.}

[coinsolidation]

from #bitmark on freenode, about the getMarked social system, very interesting

[20:43] <@MarkPfennig> down votes allow exploit.. consider if getMarked was full of markers, and somebody posted of an alternative currency, the same thing would happen as with downvotes, new things would get buried by those with self interest, which is a huge problem for large communities and commercial ventures
[20:43] <@MarkPfennig> the dynamics can be complex to get in to, for something as simple as a '+1'
[20:45] <@MarkPfennig> another social question was about bad actors cashing in on good things. Example: bad actors marks a video of a charity which is unclaimed. The marker gets all the marks, the charity none... however ...
[20:46] <@MarkPfennig> the act of sharing it to a good community means the getMarked community would bring the charity under their wing, and say put the getMarked button on your site so we can pay you by marking it!
[20:46] <@MarkPfennig> bringing them in to the fold
[20:46] <@MarkPfennig> so the bad actor gets some reward, but the charity more overall, turns bad in to good
[20:46] <PabloAngello> everywhere are people that will want to cheat others
[20:46] <PabloAngello> claiming good intentions
[20:47] <PabloAngello> people have to decide whether they send them some or not
[20:48] <@MarkPfennig> it is interesting that if we incentivise the bad actor, it is beneficial to the community
[20:49] <@MarkPfennig> they know that the getMarked community is good, so they share good things in order to get marks with bad intentions..
[20:49] <PabloAngello> where are money there are thievs, so community grows by amount of thieves too :p
[20:49] <@MarkPfennig> but it rewards the good action instead of the bad
[20:50] <@MarkPfennig> yes, thieves can be seen as good in this system, some 'theft' is tolerated for the greater good..
[20:50] <@MarkPfennig> we had a great example, think about this
[20:50] <@MarkPfennig> a hard working musician has his work ripped and shared by a bad actor..
[20:51] <@MarkPfennig> if the musician is good, the getMarked community become his followers and bring him in to the fold, showing how he can earn marks for his hard work just by doing what he loves and sharing it
[20:51] <@MarkPfennig> the bad action, or 'theft' is beneficial for all involved
[20:52] <@MarkPfennig> it was hard to find a scenario where a bad action did not work out for the best
[20:53] <@MarkPfennig> as the music ripper was rewarded he does it again, bringing in more musicians..
[20:54] <@MarkPfennig> next time it is a getMarked user who shares the musicians new track, then another does it too... both of those users get 50% of the marks they generate for the musician, and the musician gets as much as both of them combined.. if there are 100 sharers the network effect is huge
[20:55] <@MarkPfennig> the magic for all, is that every marking begins a process of distribution where amounts of mark are split in half and distributed further... as the network grows this keeps repeating, halving each time, bringing in more people and distributing smaller fractions further
[20:56] <@MarkPfennig> every mark may reasonably be halved many times per day

[coinsolidation]

Small Project for the Future
Create a small client that allows users to automate payments using simple rules.

If the date is the last friday of the month and the balance of account "current" is greater than 10 then send 3.26 to this-address.
When balance is greater than 0.5 send 0.245 to some-address.

By creating this we will allow users to automate their payments, and to save time.
The first example pays a monthly bill, the second allows a user to specify that when a payment is received something due will be paid.

Rules like this reduce the overhead of managing a daily use currency, it may also be useful to businesses.

It could be built on the json rpc api, so that users of Bitmark, Bitcoin and any recent currency would benefit.

The project will be quick and useful, when we have time we should build it. If anybody reading wants to do it first that would be better.

[loveyouforever]

When will BTM hit exchange? man

[coinsolidation]

When will BTM hit exchange? man

When this is demanded it will naturally happen.

If you are looking to acquire some BTM there are many ways to get it at a fair cost.

If you wish to sell some BTM there are people who frequent this forum that are willing to buy any BTM that becomes available and have asked to do so a number of times.

^{getMarked Funding Goal: 0.8/8 BTC, with 1.25 BTC pledged. Thank you to every one that has invested or donated so far.}

[gagalady]

What algo is this?

[Este Nuno]

What algo is this?

Scrypt. https://github.com/project-bitmark/bitmark/wiki

[coinsolidation]

The areas I need help with are as follows

1. Funding and balance, you who are reading have already done much in this regard, thank you.
2. Effective communication, I need people to help me condense what I write in to short summaries of benefits and why, or to write their own. getMarked is a prime example, having no context of Bitmark's goals, no bullet points, just a lot of text which can easily lose its reader without conveying what needs conveyed.
3. Coherent management of outwards appearance. In line with effective communication, I feel the project lacks any coherent and up to date outwards face, something which entices people in from whichever part they see first, and which gives a clear overview of what we are about.
4. Outreach. I am worried about becoming just another fractional community on bitcointalk, we need to engage every day people and businesses, and also the people who want to see every one using digital money for every day transactions, with a faction of those ethical people who focus on anarchy/justice/legalities/governance to balance the project long term.
5. Becoming more organized, where people involved have more well defined roles. I do not care who does what, so long as they enjoy what they do and feel empowered to do it more by the project and those around them.
6. To increase the coherence and visibility of the interesting discussions people have, so much is said and so much is lost, the main thread often misses all of the interesting bits. Perhaps that is because it is an ineffective medium of communication, or maybe people feel they must discuss with me rather than each other.

Over the course of the many previous pages of discussion, people have emerged who already do part of each role mentioned, I encourage any one of you to step forward, claim the role, and own it. I will do all I can to ensure that you are fairly rewarded. We also have a foundation which will be well funded, most of that is set aside for the people who claim their own roles over the next few months. It is your foundation not mine.

First time readers
Here is something from another thread, it outlines the philosophy behind the project and is shared by the existing and growing Bitmark community.

I cannot see how focussing on allowing a small community to swap funds with each other indefinitely can do much to progress the outwards appearance or long term goals of the effort to bring digital money to everyday people.

It is precisely because focus of the majority is on trying to profit from each other that things have deteriorated so badly, people get hacked and scammed because ultimately they are all trying to get a larger portion of the sum of money they together share.

Almost every coin on every exchange has no need to be on an exchange, they have no users and no real value. The time to worry about being on an exchange, and to address the security concerns involved, is when you have every day people shouting at your door to provide a way for them to acquire more. Every day people, acquiring more to use in every day transactions. Not miners, investors, speculators, bad actors, and traders, all trying to take profit from the same thing, something which is obviously impossible, which leads to negative sentiment, and encourages more bad actions.

Cryptographic currency is completely purposeless without every day people and businesses using it. Their needs should be paramount, while doing what is reasonable to balance the needs of those who enable it, the people around here.

If you share this philosophy we welcome you here

[Androidicus]

The areas I need help with are as follows

1. Funding and balance, you who are reading have already done much in this regard, thank you.
2. Effective communication, I need people to help me condense what I write in to short summaries of benefits and why, or to write their own. getMarked is a prime example, having no context of Bitmark's goals, no bullet points, just a lot of text which can easily lose its reader without conveying what needs conveyed.
3. Coherent management of outwards appearance. In line with effective communication, I feel the project lacks any coherent and up to date outwards face, something which entices people in from whichever part they see first, and which gives a clear overview of what we are about.
4. Outreach. I am worried about becoming just another fractional community on bitcointalk, we need to engage every day people and businesses, and also the people who want to see every one using digital money for every day transactions, with a faction of those ethical people who focus on anarchy/justice/legalities/governance to balance the project long term.
5. Becoming more organized, where people involved have more well defined roles. I do not care who does what, so long as they enjoy what they do and feel empowered to do it more by the project and those around them.
6. To increase the coherence and visibility of the interesting discussions people have, so much is said and so much is lost, the main thread often misses all of the interesting bits. Perhaps that is because it is an ineffective medium of communication, or maybe people feel they must discuss with me rather than each other.

This is good and crystallises yours and the Foundation/Project's needs.

Specifically for now, iro

4. - After some personal brainstorming, I realised that I have access to quite a wide group of potential adopters - I have not mentioned this previously because actions a better than words and I felt that however good I feel about that Foundation and its Projects, some further evolution was required prior to me extolling its virtues to a much wider, more sceptical audience - that time has all but arrived. getMarked is probably the tipping point in this.  

6. - I believe it has been mentioned in this thread; a Bitmark Forum. Would this be a good way forward, clearly linked from this thread? bitmark.co/forum ? It could be much better organised into Topics, Subject Areas, Groups et al?

EDIT: This could perhaps address point 5. to a certain extent?

 

[coinsolidation]

4. - After some personal brainstorming, I realised that I have access to quite a wide group of potential adopters - I have not mentioned this previously because actions a better than words and I felt that however good I feel about that Foundation and its Projects, some further evolution was required prior to me extolling its virtues to a much wider, more sceptical audience - that time has all but arrived. getMarked is probably the tipping point in this.  

6. - I believe it has been mentioned in this thread; a Bitmark Forum. Would this be a good way forward, clearly linked from this thread? bitmark.co/forum ? It could be much better organised into Topics, Subject Areas, Groups et al?

EDIT: This could perhaps address point 5. to a certain extent?

4. That is what we need, not adopters but potential adopters, so that we can find out what they need and how they foresee themselves using what we create. If the first round of adoption is to be something like "as a way to move money between online services, with the option to move it to an account under solely my control" then we can focus there. The answer may also be "to easily send money abroad and pay people in other countries". We can provide all this and more, to have some focussed adoption paths provided by potential adopters will help us a great deal. Do you think that is a subject you could raise with one or two of them?

6. I agree. A traditional forum I do not feel to be effective, a new forum looks often empty and can doom it to stay that way.

Maybe we need something more like StackExchange, with specific topics and questions tagged and arranged, a clear view of unanswered topics, and the most active or currently being discussed displayed at the top.

[Este Nuno]

6. - I believe it has been mentioned in this thread; a Bitmark Forum. Would this be a good way forward, clearly linked from this thread? bitmark.co/forum ? It could be much better organised into Topics, Subject Areas, Groups et al?

I think this has come up before and one issue that was mentioned was the risk of isolating ourselves from the outside community. I definitely agree that it would be nice to have a forum though and that it would be much more organized.

I'm not sure there is an easy answer to the question of how we maximise our public outreach while still striving for the best intra-community communication we can.

Forum is definitely inevitable at some point either way. No question about that.

[Androidicus]

6. - I believe it has been mentioned in this thread; a Bitmark Forum. Would this be a good way forward, clearly linked from this thread? bitmark.co/forum ? It could be much better organised into Topics, Subject Areas, Groups et al?

I think this has come up before and one issue that was mentioned was the risk of isolating ourselves from the outside community. I definitely agree that it would be nice to have a forum though and that it would be much more organized.

I'm not sure there is an easy answer to the question of how we maximise our public outreach while still striving for the best intra-community communication we can.

Forum is definitely inevitable at some point either way. No question about that.

Yes, there could be some isolation - but is that a little inevitable, initially? Perhaps it's how we manage that to ensure inclusion.

I can only speak for myself, but there is such good project documentation @consolidation has produced via external links; that is where the 'meat n veg' is - this thread is, imho, at risk of becoming somewhere to receive the 'When is this coin going to be on an exchange' questions [flame suit on!] in spite of the extremely high quality of discussion.

I'm starting to feel that points 2 - 6 would all benefit from a Bitmark Discussion Platform where the existing community would come and to where newcomers would be directed?

[Androidicus]

4. - After some personal brainstorming, I realised that I have access to quite a wide group of potential adopters - I have not mentioned this previously because actions a better than words and I felt that however good I feel about that Foundation and its Projects, some further evolution was required prior to me extolling its virtues to a much wider, more sceptical audience - that time has all but arrived. getMarked is probably the tipping point in this.  

6. - I believe it has been mentioned in this thread; a Bitmark Forum. Would this be a good way forward, clearly linked from this thread? bitmark.co/forum ? It could be much better organised into Topics, Subject Areas, Groups et al?

EDIT: This could perhaps address point 5. to a certain extent?

4. That is what we need, not adopters but potential adopters, so that we can find out what they need and how they foresee themselves using what we create. If the first round of adoption is to be something like "as a way to move money between online services, with the option to move it to an account under solely my control" then we can focus there. The answer may also be "to easily send money abroad and pay people in other countries". We can provide all this and more, to have some focussed adoption paths provided by potential adopters will help us a great deal. Do you think that is a subject you could raise with one or two of them?

6. I agree. A traditional forum I do not feel to be effective, a new forum looks often empty and can doom it to stay that way.

Maybe we need something more like StackExchange, with specific topics and questions tagged and arranged, a clear view of unanswered topics, and the most active or currently being discussed displayed at the top.

4. I agree and, yes - those 2 examples will relate - and what these people will understand and appreciate is value add - in addition to potentially expanding the ways that blogs / articles / content engage the audience with interaction - FB, Twtr, Pin all do this but getMarked would be another very different arrow in the quiver, imo.

6. Yes, but I do not think a standalone Bitmark Foundation Forum would look empty for long! I set up a little PHP BB3 for just a peer and myself to discuss a proposed project a while back and it didn't look empty for more than a couple of days...

EDIT: In fact, with threads, subjects, announcements, stickies - i.e. thread headed 'Why Scrypt' with a sticky permapost with your succinct rationale would answer a thousand askers...

And of course - every post would have a getMarked button 

 

[Este Nuno]

Maybe we need something more like StackExchange, with specific topics and questions tagged and arranged, a clear view of unanswered topics, and the most active or currently being discussed displayed at the top.

You mean the ones that are marked the most at the top?

[coinsolidation]

Maybe we need something more like StackExchange, with specific topics and questions tagged and arranged, a clear view of unanswered topics, and the most active or currently being discussed displayed at the top.

You mean the ones that are marked the most at the top?

That would be nice for something else and I admire your thought that getMarked may be useful here, but our needs just now are quite different, and adding those needs to getMarked may skew it's course.

I have reached out to http://www.quandora.com/ as a public version of their solution looks to be exactly what we need, with any luck they will respond to say that they are willing to support us by offering a free instance for a few months in return for being associated with Bitmark, a one off donation of our own currency to thank them, and a well funded foundation to pay all related costs in the future.

Do you think their offering looks to be what we need, and that this was a reasonable request to make?

We will need to raise a BTM donation for them in the future, if they accept, I hope that is not an issue

Context
We are discussing

The areas I need help with are as follows:

1. Funding and balance, you who are reading have already done much in this regard, thank you.
2. Effective communication, I need people to help me condense what I write in to short summaries of benefits and why, or to write their own. getMarked is a prime example, having no context of Bitmark's goals, no bullet points, just a lot of text which can easily lose its reader without conveying what needs conveyed.
3. Coherent management of outwards appearance. In line with effective communication, I feel the project lacks any coherent and up to date outwards face, something which entices people in from whichever part they see first, and which gives a clear overview of what we are about.
4. Outreach. I am worried about becoming just another fractional community on bitcointalk, we need to engage every day people and businesses, and also the people who want to see every one using digital money for every day transactions, with a faction of those ethical people who focus on anarchy/justice/legalities/governance to balance the project long term.
5. Becoming more organized, where people involved have more well defined roles. I do not care who does what, so long as they enjoy what they do and feel empowered to do it more by the project and those around them.
6. To increase the coherence and visibility of the interesting discussions people have, so much is said and so much is lost, the main thread often misses all of the interesting bits. Perhaps that is because it is an ineffective medium of communication, or maybe people feel they must discuss with me rather than each other.

Over the course of the many previous pages of discussion, people have emerged who already do part of each role mentioned, I encourage any one of you to step forward, claim the role, and own it. I will do all I can to ensure that you are fairly rewarded. We also have a foundation which will be well funded, most of that is set aside for the people who claim their own roles over the next few months. It is your foundation not mine.

^{getMarked Funding Goal: 0.9/8 BTC, with 1.15 BTC pledged. Thank you to all who have donated and invested.}