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Author Topic: Gavin will visit the CIA  (Read 136267 times)
tomcollins
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April 27, 2011, 10:11:54 PM
 #21

  I think the goals of this project are to create a better currency, create a more competitive and efficient international payment system, and give people more direct control over their finances.  And I don't think any of those goals are incompatible with the goals of government.

They are, in fact, incompatible.  Government has a choice between a allowing a monetary system that's efficient and keeping the one that saps the wealth of all citizens.  It's no mystery which one they will prefer.

This is only true for certain sectors of government.  Domestic monetary policy is not a concern for the CIA.  That's doesn't mean that the monied interests of other sectors won't interfere with whatever the CIA might have in mind, but the CIA doesn't care what cyberpunks are doing in the dark corners of the Internet in general.

CIA could care if they could take advantage of the tech to fund various people in other countries, or monitor them.
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April 27, 2011, 10:13:14 PM
 #22

Watch out for the honey-pots hanging around the water-cooler, they can be enchanting and deadly.

I'm skeptical, what does bitcoin need CIA for? It doesn't, AFAIK, bitcoin has got where it is without them (unless Satoshi is an agent).

What it could do with is for CIA to keep its hands off and play fair. They are more likely to be a hostile threat than an ally.

Will you be reporting back on feedback, comments, questions, discussions resulting from the presentation?

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April 27, 2011, 10:17:09 PM
 #23

Good news - bitcoin survives until June! Smiley

Also, please note: invite to CIA, not to NSA... suspiciously!

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- Может, ты ещё и в Невидимую Руку Рынка веруешь? - Зачем же веровать в то, что можно наблюдать непосредственно?
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April 27, 2011, 10:19:57 PM
 #24

CIA will put a bug in Gavin's house, tap his phone, and attach a GPS to his car.  They goal is to find out who Satoshi is.  Beware!!!

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April 27, 2011, 10:22:29 PM
 #25

Watch out for the honey-pots hanging around the water-cooler, they can be enchanting and deadly.

I'm skeptical, what does bitcoin need CIA for? It doesn't, AFAIK, bitcoin has got where it is without them (unless Satoshi is an agent).
I have suspected for a couple months that this forum was being watched, and that a couple of forum members were agents keeping tabs on us; but I'd be very impressed if Bitcoin were a CIA project or that Satoshi turns out to be a government agent.  I've been careful enough that most average forum users aren't likely to be able to discover my identity, but not careful enough to prevent the feds from doing so.  I would consider that futile.  And considering that I've personally mentioned that I have worked for the federal government in the past, they almost certainly know the real me.  These guys aren't surprised easily.
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What it could do with is for CIA to keep its hands off and play fair. They are more likely to be a hostile threat than an ally.
Yesterday I would have agreed with you, but as I mentioned, the CIA openly reaching out to Gavin in a friendly manner implies that they intend to "play fair", if they intend to play at all.  Hands off is almost certainly not an option now, and probably never was considering what the goals are.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
brocktice
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April 27, 2011, 10:48:10 PM
 #26

I am guessing that the CIA probably has some uses of bitcoin in mind, like paying off informants.

http://media.witcoin.com/p/1608/8----This-is-nuts

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JohnDoe
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April 27, 2011, 10:48:23 PM
 #27

(meaning they are not going to commit resources to destroy the network)

Let's not jump to conclusions now. Although I agree that Bitcoin could prove useful to the CIA, they still have to do what the White House tells them, and the WH will obviously be hostile towards Bitcoin.

I'd be very impressed if Bitcoin were a CIA project or that Satoshi turns out to be a government agent.

Why would a government agency create a currency that undermines the government's ability to collect taxes?
BitterTea
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April 27, 2011, 10:58:18 PM
 #28

Why would a government agency create a currency that undermines the government's ability to collect taxes?

For the same reason that a government agency would create a routing protocol that undermines the government's ability to censor and collect information.

The CIA would definitely be interested in a distributed, pseudonymous digital currency, in order to transfer money to assets. In order for such a system to be useful, it would have to be used by many other people (to provide cover) as well as be valuable (in order to be accepted by an asset for payment).

This isn't to say that the government as a whole won't be hostile to Bitcoin, but I think most government employees have a sort of tunnel vision.
foxmulder
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April 27, 2011, 10:59:02 PM
 #29

This is like 'mob' and asking who is the new 'boy' in town   Undecided, cryptotorture anyone?

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April 27, 2011, 11:00:24 PM
 #30

(meaning they are not going to commit resources to destroy the network)

Let's not jump to conclusions now. Although I agree that Bitcoin could prove useful to the CIA, they still have to do what the White House tells them, and the WH will obviously be hostile towards Bitcoin.

I'd be very impressed if Bitcoin were a CIA project or that Satoshi turns out to be a government agent.

Why would a government agency create a currency that undermines the government's ability to collect taxes?

Because they are sick of taking their orders from banksters ... the current system is impoverishing govt. as well. The only people prospering are the corrupt, incompetent top-dogs at insolvent mega-banks, that's a doomed society right there. Even the drones in govt. can see that.

LMGTFY
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April 27, 2011, 11:03:01 PM
 #31

Why would a government agency create a currency that undermines the government's ability to collect taxes?
I was only half-joking when I wrote this. Government agencies all have their own agendas - sometimes they conflict with each other.

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April 27, 2011, 11:05:34 PM
 #32

Gavin - please be sure to emphasize the transparency of bitcoin - every transaction being logged publicly makes it slightly less attractive to the drug-smuggling terrorist child pornographers. A careful analysis of the network would yield a lot of information about who is paying who how much, even if it doesn't tell you their name and address. One easy thing they could do is to pay money to some illegal service, and watch where the money goes.

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April 27, 2011, 11:09:29 PM
 #33

just keep in mind the new golden rule. He who owns the gold rules. The powers that be don't like competition. Yes, there are good folks in government and yes they are bad folks but it's the folks who pull the purse strings that aren't formally in government that matter most. I would exercise great caution.
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April 27, 2011, 11:14:33 PM
 #34

At what bitcoin price can we refer to them as "the powers that were"?

and confusingly refer to ourselves as "the powers that we're"?

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MoonShadow
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April 27, 2011, 11:17:42 PM
 #35

and the WH will obviously be hostile towards Bitcoin.
I don't agree that this is a given.
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Why would a government agency create a currency that undermines the government's ability to collect taxes?

The government has many other ways to generate revenue.  The income tax is not small, but has always been more about social engineering than government revenue.

That said, I was saying that I would be surprised if Bitcoin were a government project.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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April 27, 2011, 11:22:30 PM
 #36

and the WH will obviously be hostile towards Bitcoin.
I don't agree that this is a given.

You must be joking. Bitcoin is threatening them with bilions of dollars loss if not a total dissolution and you don't think it's a given?
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April 27, 2011, 11:25:04 PM
 #37

The government has many other ways to generate revenue.  The income tax is not small, but has always been more about social engineering than government revenue.

Don't forget that Bitcoin not only threatens taxation, but inflation of the money supply as a source of revenue. Additionally, national debt seems more difficult to accrue without a monopoly on money.
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April 27, 2011, 11:27:21 PM
 #38

The government is doomed without Bitcoin, anyway. The only solution in saving their ass is changing their incentive structure.

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April 27, 2011, 11:38:00 PM
 #39

and the WH will obviously be hostile towards Bitcoin.
I don't agree that this is a given.

You must be joking. Bitcoin is threatening them with bilions of dollars loss if not a total dissolution and you don't think it's a given?

No, I don't.  I think that there are plenty of people in government capable of seeing the trends, and motivated enough to act towards benefitting from those same trends.  This is true if the trend in question is the stock market, Federal Reserve dominance, or the rise of cryptocurrency.  Nor do I doubt their capacity to obscure their true motives.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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April 27, 2011, 11:39:02 PM
 #40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTbdnNgqfs8


 Smiley

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