Bitcoin Forum
December 08, 2016, 06:15:19 AM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Gavin will visit the CIA  (Read 136306 times)
wb3
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112


^Check Out^ Isle 3


View Profile
April 30, 2011, 05:18:22 AM
 #241

My .02 BTC,

  The CIA never wants to shut stuff down. They want to "exploit" it, to their benefit. If it becomes a U.S. problem, they will pass it on to the FBI (ICE, these days) and let them shut it down.

They love the "What If's", so if you choose to take advice. Prepare for the "What If" questions to impress. The technicals can be given in a white-paper for later review.

Considering the current world environment, you have 2 big what ifs. One for and one against.

What If, Foreign Organization A sends BTC to party B in the U.S. ?  How can you detect it? Methods of withdrawal, services available, etc...

What If, Government Organization C sends BTC to Foreign Party D ?  How can you avoid being detected?


Think TinFoil Paranoia type of answers. If they smile, come home scared. If they smirk, start a service they need and charge them a bundle  Grin

Only accept payment in Euro's or BTC cause the USD isn't what it used to be  Grin

Net Worth = 0.10    Hah, "Net" worth Smiley
1481177719
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481177719

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481177719
Reply with quote  #2

1481177719
Report to moderator
1481177719
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481177719

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481177719
Reply with quote  #2

1481177719
Report to moderator
1481177719
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481177719

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481177719
Reply with quote  #2

1481177719
Report to moderator
Visit and contribute to reddit.com/r/Bitcoin
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1481177719
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481177719

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481177719
Reply with quote  #2

1481177719
Report to moderator
1481177719
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481177719

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481177719
Reply with quote  #2

1481177719
Report to moderator
1481177719
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481177719

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481177719
Reply with quote  #2

1481177719
Report to moderator
TiagoTiago
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616


Firstbits.com/1fg4i                :Ƀ


View Profile
April 30, 2011, 08:56:46 AM
 #242

Be safe, aight G ?

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

Wanna gimme some BTC for any or no reason? 1FmvtS66LFh6ycrXDwKRQTexGJw4UWiqDX Smiley

The more you believe in Bitcoin, and the more you show you do to other people, the faster the real value will soar!

Do you like mmmBananas?!
AtlasONo
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 551



View Profile
April 30, 2011, 04:17:16 PM
 #243


I feel like I'm dealing with children.  Maybe I'm just not used to open message boards; usually my projects have a somewhat more polite, mailing-list-oriented membership, and people treat each other like adults.  They also know how to read and understand nuance, a skill sorely lacking here.  This is certainly not a community that at present is welcoming to outsiders, at least if they're not libertarian or anarchic extremists or, for example, display any doubts about the protocol or the "leadership."  And you don't have to believe me, but it's your loss.

You are absolutely 100% right.
ShadowOfHarbringer
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1470


Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952


View Profile
April 30, 2011, 11:50:58 PM
 #244

Be safe, aight G ?

He is safe.
If something would happen to Gavin at that meeting, this would be interpreted by everyone here as government attacking Bitcoin.
If they are planning an attack on Bitcoin (but i doubt that is their intention at the moment), they would not want to alert the enemy first.

The CIA/FBI/Gov guys are not stupid. Surely they will want to explore other possibilities than attack first. For example:

a) Exploiting bitcoin for power, using it against other nations, increasing national advantage (perhaps using it to destabilize/manipulate/influence other countries).
b) Actually making a profit on Bitcoin, which can be possibly used to fund Military/Intelligence.

If none of the above options works, they may try an attack.
Just remember that not everything that comes from military/intelligence is always bad. it was military & intelligence that produced the Internet & started the TOR project.

uniman
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 15


View Profile
May 01, 2011, 12:39:29 AM
 #245

Why would a government agency create a currency that undermines the government's ability to collect taxes?

For the same reason that a government agency would create a routing protocol that undermines the government's ability to censor and collect information.

The CIA would definitely be interested in a distributed, pseudonymous digital currency, in order to transfer money to assets. In order for such a system to be useful, it would have to be used by many other people (to provide cover) as well as be valuable (in order to be accepted by an asset for payment).

This isn't to say that the government as a whole won't be hostile to Bitcoin, but I think most government employees have a sort of tunnel vision.

Does anybody really think the CIA has any problem with fund transfers?  Don't you think they already have plenty of methods of doing that and that it's extremely unlikely that Bitcoin (with all due respect) has come up with something novel that surprises them and gives them some new capability that they simply don't have already?  Sounds farfetched to me.

To the extent that government agencies had anything to do with developing the software for the Internet, I suggest that 1) we can see how primitive and chronically insecure much of it is relative to the results of a blank-sheet effort today and 2) the government at the time had far less understanding of the consequences of the Internet.

My thinking is that the June invite is the opening act of their dance to get engaged with the people of this project in order to ultimately "persuade" them to provide some "backdoor" method of weakening the system so that it becomes ineffective as a defense against government.  Surely they have the source code and the ability to understand this 100% on their own.  Why even talk to Bitcoin people?

Here's a bargaining chip...

"If you want the power to find _real_ criminals who are using Bitcoin, then show us the _guarantee_ that merely _political_ crime such as tax evasion is exempt from any action by government."



 

JohnDoe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392



View Profile
May 01, 2011, 02:13:19 AM
 #246

(Sigh.)  I'm just offering a reasoned argument about project management, informed by my experience.

You still haven't given a single concrete suggestion aside from "You should make me part of the leadership because of my awesome C++ and project management skills that I have yet to display. You are missing out if you don't". And your supposed experience means nothing, even if you were Linus Torvalds nobody would give a shit until you actually do something.

This is certainly not a community that at present is welcoming to outsiders

New people are very welcomed here, except the ones with a hugely inflated sense of self-worth and self-entitlement.
TiagoTiago
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616


Firstbits.com/1fg4i                :Ƀ


View Profile
May 01, 2011, 02:22:34 AM
 #247

Be safe, aight G ?

He is safe.
If something would happen to Gavin at that meeting, this would be interpreted by everyone here as government attacking Bitcoin.
If they are planning an attack on Bitcoin (but i doubt that is their intention at the moment), they would not want to alert the enemy first.

The CIA/FBI/Gov guys are not stupid. Surely they will want to explore other possibilities than attack first. For example:

a) Exploiting bitcoin for power, using it against other nations, increasing national advantage (perhaps using it to destabilize/manipulate/influence other countries).
b) Actually making a profit on Bitcoin, which can be possibly used to fund Military/Intelligence.

If none of the above options works, they may try an attack.
Just remember that not everything that comes from military/intelligence is always bad. it was military & intelligence that produced the Internet & started the TOR project.


Don't the feds hang at DefCon and such and threaten and even straight out arrest invited speakers there?

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

Wanna gimme some BTC for any or no reason? 1FmvtS66LFh6ycrXDwKRQTexGJw4UWiqDX Smiley

The more you believe in Bitcoin, and the more you show you do to other people, the faster the real value will soar!

Do you like mmmBananas?!
ShadowOfHarbringer
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1470


Bringing Legendary Har® to you since 1952


View Profile
May 02, 2011, 12:04:32 PM
 #248

Be safe, aight G ?

He is safe.
If something would happen to Gavin at that meeting, this would be interpreted by everyone here as government attacking Bitcoin.
If they are planning an attack on Bitcoin (but i doubt that is their intention at the moment), they would not want to alert the enemy first.

The CIA/FBI/Gov guys are not stupid. Surely they will want to explore other possibilities than attack first. For example:

a) Exploiting bitcoin for power, using it against other nations, increasing national advantage (perhaps using it to destabilize/manipulate/influence other countries).
b) Actually making a profit on Bitcoin, which can be possibly used to fund Military/Intelligence.

If none of the above options works, they may try an attack.
Just remember that not everything that comes from military/intelligence is always bad. it was military & intelligence that produced the Internet & started the TOR project.


Don't the feds hang at DefCon and such and threaten and even straight out arrest invited speakers there?

Do they really ?

Well, even if it is so, threatening is far from actually hurting people.

Meni Rosenfeld
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1890



View Profile WWW
May 02, 2011, 04:01:39 PM
 #249

I'm not sure why I'm taking the bait and continuing to respond, but in my world it's hard to let wrong comments slide by, particularly when they're so hostile.
http://xkcd.com/386/

1EofoZNBhWQ3kxfKnvWkhtMns4AivZArhr   |   Who am I?   |   bitcoin-otc WoT
Bitcoil - Exchange bitcoins for ILS (thread)   |   Israel Bitcoin community homepage (thread)
Analysis of Bitcoin Pooled Mining Reward Systems (thread, summary)  |   PureMining - Infinite-term, deterministic mining bond
bitdragon
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 610


peace


View Profile WWW
May 02, 2011, 06:16:43 PM
 #250

I'm not sure why I'm taking the bait and continuing to respond, but in my world it's hard to let wrong comments slide by, particularly when they're so hostile.
http://xkcd.com/386/
Cheesy


marcus_of_augustus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2100



View Profile
May 03, 2011, 12:47:37 AM
 #251


If it all goes pear-shaped I wonder if Gavin will be given a "burial at sea"?

LightRider
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1488


I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.


View Profile WWW
May 03, 2011, 01:07:14 AM
 #252

No, he'll have to develop kidney failure and hide in Silicon Valley for 10 years evading detection.

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
bitcool
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1441

Live and enjoy experiments


View Profile
May 03, 2011, 02:41:15 AM
 #253

I dunno... at best I see a neutral outcome with this cia meeting. I do not foresee a net positive for bitcoin in the long term with this meeting. ...
I think there can be positive outcome, however remote it is.
Let's say dollar's collapse is unavoidable at this point, and it turns out Fort Knox's gold had been "leased" out and long gone... all the sudden supporting bitcoin is of national's interest, just think about how many bitcoins are in the hands of US citizens and how much computational power US has.
gusti
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1102


View Profile
May 03, 2011, 03:23:25 AM
 #254

I dunno... at best I see a neutral outcome with this cia meeting. I do not foresee a net positive for bitcoin in the long term with this meeting. ...
I think there can be positive outcome, however remote it is.
Let's say dollar's collapse is unavoidable at this point, and it turns out Fort Knox's gold had been "leased" out and long gone... all the sudden supporting bitcoin is of national's interest, just think about how many bitcoins are in the hands of US citizens and how much computational power US has.

So, is Gavin the next Bernanke ?   Grin

If you don't own the private keys, you don't own the coins.
LH66
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 42



View Profile
May 03, 2011, 03:30:35 AM
 #255

I dunno... at best I see a neutral outcome with this cia meeting. I do not foresee a net positive for bitcoin in the long term with this meeting. ...
I think there can be positive outcome, however remote it is.
Let's say dollar's collapse is unavoidable at this point, and it turns out Fort Knox's gold had been "leased" out and long gone... all the sudden supporting bitcoin is of national's interest, just think about how many bitcoins are in the hands of US citizens and how much computational power US has.

Point taken.  Smiley

QuickBooks consulting and bookkeeping services. In business since 1992. Bitcoin now accepted.
Shortline
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 123


View Profile
May 03, 2011, 04:14:38 AM
 #256

Does anybody really think the CIA has any problem with fund transfers?  Don't you think they already have plenty of methods of doing that and that it's extremely unlikely that Bitcoin (with all due respect) has come up with something novel that surprises them and gives them some new capability that they simply don't have already?  Sounds farfetched to me.

They're experts at moving money around, no doubt. And the only thing they can't easily do is duplicate the robustness of p2p networks. It seems highly likely to me that they need failsafe backups just like the rest of the world - something that always works if the internet is still switched on. See Tor for a good example of that strategy.

Quote
My thinking is that the June invite is the opening act of their dance to get engaged with the people of this project in order to ultimately "persuade" them to provide some "backdoor" method of weakening the system so that it becomes ineffective as a defense against government.  Surely they have the source code and the ability to understand this 100% on their own.  Why even talk to Bitcoin people?

I'd guess that many people in the organization completely and thoroughly understand bitcoin better than the majority of people that actually use it. But they're a big bureaucracy with a bunch of different departments and conflicting internal goals, just like any major branch of the government. If the guys in the analysis department want the guys that make decisions to take notice, they do it like any other office worker does it - however they can. And in this case they bought a bit of time from a guy to make a presentation.

Quote
Here's a bargaining chip...

"If you want the power to find _real_ criminals who are using Bitcoin, then show us the _guarantee_ that merely _political_ crime such as tax evasion is exempt from any action by government."

I fail to see how this would work. What guarantee can the US gov't give that they couldn't immediately revoke as soon as it's convenient for them?


 


sortedmush
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 126


The geek shall inherit the earth.


View Profile
May 03, 2011, 01:43:10 PM
 #257

The CIA torture people.

I'm not saying that Gavin is in danger of being tortured. I'm just saying that I would have totally ignored any communication from an organisation that tortures people.
Ian Maxwell
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140



View Profile WWW
May 03, 2011, 02:59:04 PM
 #258

Hm.

Advantages to the CIA of a backdoored bitcoin: it would be easy to gather intelligence by, say, identifying the bitcoin addresses of interesting people and tracking their cash flow.

Advantages to the CIA of a secure bitcoin: they don't have to worry about "bad guys" finding the backdoor and identifying all their spies, which probably would happen eventually with an open source program.

We have plenty of suspicious people vetting the source code already, and if I catch wind that the CIA is contributing code, I'll be one of them. So I'm not too worried about that scenario.

Ian Maxwell
PGP key | WoT rating
TiagoTiago
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616


Firstbits.com/1fg4i                :Ƀ


View Profile
May 03, 2011, 11:01:58 PM
 #259

If all USD was backed with BTC, how much 1 BTC would be worth right now?

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

Wanna gimme some BTC for any or no reason? 1FmvtS66LFh6ycrXDwKRQTexGJw4UWiqDX Smiley

The more you believe in Bitcoin, and the more you show you do to other people, the faster the real value will soar!

Do you like mmmBananas?!
MoonShadow
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1666



View Profile
May 03, 2011, 11:05:51 PM
 #260

Prove the mixnet isn't a honeypot.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!