[HYP] HyperStake | Generous Reward Staking | Advanced Staking Controls & Wallet

[MoneroMooo]

In the coin control list mode I'm getting estimates of between 50-64 days for individual matured blocks to stake,while on the syncing wheel at the front of the wallet console, I'm getting 3-5 days and 2-4 days to staking.

The second bit takes into account every block you have. As an example that may be easier to grasp, imagine you have a dice, and you roll it till you get a 1. You have 1/6 chance to get 1 at each roll. The expected number of rolls till you get 1 is.... hmmm. a few. You will likely need to roll a few times to get a 1. You might get a 1 on the first roll, and you might need to roll 10 times before getting one if you're not lucky.

Now, picture a HYP block being such a dice, rolling every second. And now imagine you've got 100 dice. And think about if you roll these 100 dice at once, what is the expected number of whole rolls to get at least a 1 ? It's pretty likely you'll get at least a 1 in that first mass roll.

That's why you get an overall expected time to stake that's a lot lower than the typical time to stake for a single block. The more blocks you have, the larger the gap.

[Crestington]

So where are you guys most active for chat? IRC? Slack?

Lots of great people hang around this coin

Thanks guys for the help with all my bootstrap questions, that guide you provided was very easy and I had no trouble creating and using a bootstrap.

[mafort1469]

So where are you guys most active for chat? IRC? Slack?

Lots of great people hang around this coin

Thanks guys for the help with all my bootstrap questions, that guide you provided was very easy and I had no trouble creating and using a bootstrap.

IRC first and foremost. We used to use Slack but there hasn't been any action on it for a long time. Most of us are still on IRC daily.

Have to use ##hyperstake for the correct IRC channel.

[foroplus]

In the coin control list mode I'm getting estimates of between 50-64 days for individual matured blocks to stake,while on the syncing wheel at the front of the wallet console, I'm getting 3-5 days and 2-4 days to staking.

The second bit takes into account every block you have. As an example that may be easier to grasp, imagine you have a dice, and you roll it till you get a 1. You have 1/6 chance to get 1 at each roll. The expected number of rolls till you get 1 is.... hmmm. a few. You will likely need to roll a few times to get a 1. You might get a 1 on the first roll, and you might need to roll 10 times before getting one if you're not lucky.

Now, picture a HYP block being such a dice, rolling every second. And now imagine you've got 100 dice. And think about if you roll these 100 dice at once, what is the expected number of whole rolls to get at least a 1 ? It's pretty likely you'll get at least a 1 in that first mass roll.

That's why you get an overall expected time to stake that's a lot lower than the typical time to stake for a single block. The more blocks you have, the larger the gap.

So, what's the role of the difficulty in all this game?
I suppose that bigger blocks have higher odds than smaller ones.
no?

[mafort1469]

In the coin control list mode I'm getting estimates of between 50-64 days for individual matured blocks to stake,while on the syncing wheel at the front of the wallet console, I'm getting 3-5 days and 2-4 days to staking.

The second bit takes into account every block you have. As an example that may be easier to grasp, imagine you have a dice, and you roll it till you get a 1. You have 1/6 chance to get 1 at each roll. The expected number of rolls till you get 1 is.... hmmm. a few. You will likely need to roll a few times to get a 1. You might get a 1 on the first roll, and you might need to roll 10 times before getting one if you're not lucky.

Now, picture a HYP block being such a dice, rolling every second. And now imagine you've got 100 dice. And think about if you roll these 100 dice at once, what is the expected number of whole rolls to get at least a 1 ? It's pretty likely you'll get at least a 1 in that first mass roll.

That's why you get an overall expected time to stake that's a lot lower than the typical time to stake for a single block. The more blocks you have, the larger the gap.

So, what's the role of the difficulty in all this game?
I suppose that bigger blocks have higher odds than smaller ones.
no?

Well in theory bigger blocks have higher odds due to coin weight. A large block size like 25K will have a coin weight around 200k around day 10 if I remember correctly. A block size smaller will have less weight. In theory the more coin weight a block has, the sooner it should stake. This is not always true and has been proven to only be a guide. For example I have had on many occasions, smaller block sizes stake before the larger and older blocks. It is a roll of the dice as in previous posts. Having a higher coin weight will increases your chances to win the stake, but you will not always win.

[MoneroMooo]

In the dice example, network difficulty is akin to the number of faces on the dice. The more faces, the less likely you are to get a 1.

Conversely, block weight is akin to the target you must reach. If instead of getting a 1, you have to get X or lower. So a small weight block would need to roll a 1, a larger block would need a 2 or lower, etc.

[Ztraven]

I think most investors are concerned more with what it means for them in BTC terms. My 18 blocks of 4000 on Day 11 are now showing estimated payouts between 38-45 days, which is a big improvement from the 70+ on Day 1.

If that continues to drop I will be happy, but even so on today's figures, 1000 paid out on a 4000 stake is a 25% payout on an 8 weeks total stake period. Quite a good return. All my blocks are still showing "high" and not "highest", so I'm really in uncharted waters at this time - normally with my other POS coins I would be well into "highest" by now. That tells me that there are a lot of large blocks out there, probably in the 30,000+ range.

Maybe there is a case for putting a weight cap on very large coin blocks e.g. over 20,000. That could be good for the network and the security of the coin.

[LiteBit]

I think most investors are concerned more with what it means for them in BTC terms. My 18 blocks of 4000 on Day 11 are now showing estimated payouts between 38-45 days, which is a big improvement from the 70+ on Day 1.

If that continues to drop I will be happy, but even so on today's figures, 1000 paid out on a 4000 stake is a 25% payout on an 8 weeks total stake period. Quite a good return. All my blocks are still showing "high" and not "highest", so I'm really in uncharted waters at this time - normally with my other POS coins I would be well into "highest" by now. That tells me that there are a lot of large blocks out there, probably in the 30,000+ range.

Maybe there is a case for putting a weight cap on very large coin blocks e.g. over 20,000. That could be good for the network and the security of the coin.

And blocks over 30 days stop earning weight. My guesstimate is that your 4k blocks will hit around 250,000 weight or less each. I don't believe I've had any over 300k weight before.

Interesting point of view on weight cap for large blocks.

[iantunc]

I think most investors are concerned more with what it means for them in BTC terms. My 18 blocks of 4000 on Day 11 are now showing estimated payouts between 38-45 days, which is a big improvement from the 70+ on Day 1.

If that continues to drop I will be happy, but even so on today's figures, 1000 paid out on a 4000 stake is a 25% payout on an 8 weeks total stake period. Quite a good return. All my blocks are still showing "high" and not "highest", so I'm really in uncharted waters at this time - normally with my other POS coins I would be well into "highest" by now. That tells me that there are a lot of large blocks out there, probably in the 30,000+ range.

Maybe there is a case for putting a weight cap on very large coin blocks e.g. over 20,000. That could be good for the network and the security of the coin.

And blocks over 30 days stop earning weight. My guesstimate is that your 4k blocks will hit around 250,000 weight or less each. I don't believe I've had any over 300k weight before.

Interesting point of view on weight cap for large blocks.

Don't pay attention on the priority tab (inherited from Peercoin). It has almost no practical meaning as the network doesn't prioritize blocks. Only random variance of hashing process is responsible for staking efficiency of the block size vs. current diff. The bigger the blocks, the less total amount of blocks fighting for the stake presents currently in the network according to current supply, so it should't make you worry. Weight cap for large blocks can't be implemented because the diff can potentially be so high that no blocks, even with the reached block size weight cap, won't be able to stake and that will stop the whole network.

4k block will reach ~120 000 weight in 30 days (which is the max age of maturity, so this weight is the cap). The weight can be easily calculated with this formula:

 block size x age

I think most investors are concerned more with what it means for them in BTC terms.
My 18 blocks of 4000 on Day 11 are now showing estimated payouts between 38-45 days, which is a big improvement from the 70+ on Day 1.

Staking time estimate takes into account the diff which can vary through the day, so probably you will see another figures later, even bigger than now. The average staking time of your blocks (therefore the return) can be found only by experiments, you can only make rough estimates.

If that continues to drop I will be happy, but even so on today's figures, 1000 paid out on a 4000 stake is a 25% payout on an 8 weeks total stake period. Quite a good return.

Currently it's the approximate return for 4k blocks, even slightly bigger.

[Ztraven]

I think most investors are concerned more with what it means for them in BTC terms. My 18 blocks of 4000 on Day 11 are now showing estimated payouts between 38-45 days, which is a big improvement from the 70+ on Day 1.

If that continues to drop I will be happy, but even so on today's figures, 1000 paid out on a 4000 stake is a 25% payout on an 8 weeks total stake period. Quite a good return. All my blocks are still showing "high" and not "highest", so I'm really in uncharted waters at this time - normally with my other POS coins I would be well into "highest" by now. That tells me that there are a lot of large blocks out there, probably in the 30,000+ range.

Maybe there is a case for putting a weight cap on very large coin blocks e.g. over 20,000. That could be good for the network and the security of the coin.

And blocks over 30 days stop earning weight. My guesstimate is that your 4k blocks will hit around 250,000 weight or less each. I don't believe I've had any over 300k weight before.

Interesting point of view on weight cap for large blocks.

Don't pay attention on the priority tab (inherited from Peercoin). It has almost no practical meaning as the network doesn't prioritize blocks. Only random variance of hashing process is responsible for staking efficiency of the block size vs. current diff. The bigger the blocks, the less total amount of blocks fighting for the stake presents currently in the network according to current supply, so it should't make you worry. Weight cap for large blocks can't be implemented because the diff can potentially be so high that no blocks, even with the reached block size weight cap, won't be able to stake and that will stop the whole network.

4k block will reach ~120 000 weight in 30 days (which is the max age of maturity, so this weight is the cap). The weight can be easily calculated with this formula:

 block size x age

I think most investors are concerned more with what it means for them in BTC terms.
My 18 blocks of 4000 on Day 11 are now showing estimated payouts between 38-45 days, which is a big improvement from the 70+ on Day 1.

Staking time estimate takes into account the diff which can vary through the day, so probably you will see another figures later, even bigger than now. The average staking time of your blocks (therefore the return) can be found only by experiments, you can only make rough estimates.

Thanks! Your post is helpful. I have a couple of raised eyebrows though:

1.  If only blocks of over 20,000 were weight-capped, all others below that threshold should continue to gain weight as normal and get an increased smell-in, in relation to the larger blocks as far as staking is concerned. If the super-large blocks were split up into smaller sizes, they would too increase in weight as time goes on until the difficulty is overcome. This may, or may not increase future difficulty.

2.  If splitting the super-large blocks up makes the difficulty much harder, then that, to my mind, would imply that there are an abnormally large number of super-large blocks out there and that in itself could have staking, distribution, security and other implications - especially if everyone were to now embark on an escalating block-size race ... or ... (the thought perished!).

My experiment continues ...  

[iantunc]

Thanks! Your post is helpful. I have a couple of raised eyebrows though:

1.  If only blocks of over 20,000 were weight-capped, all others below that threshold should continue to gain weight as normal and get an increased smell-in, in relation to the larger blocks as far as staking is concerned. If the super_large blocks were split up into smaller sizes, they would too increase in weight as time goes on until the difficulty is overcome. This may, or may not increase future difficulty.

If blocks above 20k were weight capped, then the max possible weight would be 20 000 X 30 = 600 000. For todays difficulty it's quite a lot, but in few years it can be normal staking weight, and those who want to stake faster, won't be able to do it. And in, for example, 10 years, it can be hard to stake with this weight at all. People should be free to choose their personal staking strategy.    

2.  If splitting the super-large blocks up makes the difficulty much harder, then that, to my mind, would imply that there are an abnormally large number of super-large blocks out there and that in itself could have staking, distribution, security and other implications - especially if everyone were to now embark on an escalating block-size race.

My experiment continues ...  

At any time there will be people who will respond to the dropping difficulty (due to the huge number of big blocks) by making their blocks smaller (and thus increasing the diff as it is calculated according to the time space between two last stakes, and small blocks in these conditions will produce plenty of stakes). Moreover, there is an implicit factor which limits the block arm race, it's the return. I don't think there is a lot of people now staking something like 100-200k in one block  

[iantunc]

Thanks! Your post is helpful. I have a couple of raised eyebrows though:

1.  If only blocks of over 20,000 were weight-capped, all others below that threshold should continue to gain weight as normal and get an increased smell-in, in relation to the larger blocks as far as staking is concerned. If the super_large blocks were split up into smaller sizes, they would too increase in weight as time goes on until the difficulty is overcome. This may, or may not increase future difficulty.

If blocks above 20k where weight capped, then the max possible weight would be 20 000 X 30 = 600 000. For todays difficulty it's quite a lot, but in few years it can be normal staking weight, and those who want to stake faster, won't be able to do it. And in, for example, 10 years, it can be hard to stake with this weight at all. People should be free to choose their personal staking strategy.    

Oh, sorry, my mistake   Too much work. But the concern about freedom is actual.

[iantunc]

Thanks! Your post is helpful. I have a couple of raised eyebrows though:

1.  If only blocks of over 20,000 were weight-capped, all others below that threshold should continue to gain weight as normal and get an increased smell-in, in relation to the larger blocks as far as staking is concerned. If the super_large blocks were split up into smaller sizes, they would too increase in weight as time goes on until the difficulty is overcome. This may, or may not increase future difficulty.

If blocks above 20k were weight capped, then the max possible weight would be 20 000 X 30 = 600 000. For todays difficulty it's quite a lot, but in few years it can be normal staking weight, and those who want to stake faster, won't be able to do it. And in, for example, 10 years, it can be hard to stake with this weight at all. People should be free to choose their personal staking strategy.    

Oh, sorry, my mistake   Too much work. But the concern about freedom is actual.

Well, actually, I think I'm right. It can't stop the network, but probably it can stop the rise of the diff and create gaps in transaction time. Need some time to think about it.

[Pst291]

I randomly bought some hyp which was exactly 4000.ill boot up my wallet and see exactly when they went in and will update when the finally stake

edit....5/27/2015 sent

[presstab]

I go on vacation for a few days and come back to some pretty advanced staking conversation. I like it

[Crestington]

I go on vacation for a few days and come back to some pretty advanced staking conversation. I like it

Presstab is back!

[mafort1469]

I go on vacation for a few days and come back to some pretty advanced staking conversation. I like it

Not to mention a nice price level off around 300 sats. Hope you had a great time Press! Good to hear ya back in one piece.

[mmfiore]

This is a very interesting conversation on staking strategy. Apparently this coin employs a more sophisticated staking mechanism than other coins that are POS. I suspect that the reward system is most likely linear in nature with some step functions built in. It is hard to tell without viewing the mathematics used for the staking algorithm. I will analyze it and let you know the results. It will take several months to a year before I see a pattern. I have a question about the process of identifying which block has staked. Suppose I have a set of 5 blocks of 5000 coins each all received on the same day. Exactly one month later one of the blocks stakes how do I tell which one of the 5 blocks staked?

[mmfiore]

Also, another question. Where is a working richlist for hyperstake? The one I am using does not appear to be updating.

[billotronic]

well there are a few ways...

first, depending on your stakesplitthreshold, the staked block would be bigger then 5k

or

if you are sending 100% of your stake somewhere else it would be the only block with 0 weight?

and

http://www.presstab.pw/phpexplorer/HYP/richlist.php

updates but lacks an address claim