★[ANN] [NAV] NAV COIN - Community Fund Live!!!

[Diego24]

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/nav-coin-updates-anonymous-network/

[Diego24]

We are using a different system, using a Subchain to transport sending information from one node to a random other node. Using this we break the information on the nav blockchain. There is no transaction between you amd receiver, which can be traced, since the recipient do not get the coins you did send.

The working principles of these anon coins are really confusing. Sometimes I wonder whether these principles actually really work. For example, when you just do a mixing like Dash ... then you mix 3 transactions. But if I send 9.34313 Dash via a Masternode to B, then B will receive exactly 9.34313 Dash. How big are the odds that around that time someone else also sends this exact amount of Dash ? So it makes the mixing a useless operation. Or did I misunderstand something ?

Monero has a more complex scheme. I don't know the details for sure, but I remember it had something to do with a bunch of addresses that are generated and your money will be send in pieces over all those addresses and then from those addresses it will be send to the receiver. Take the encryption away, and then I still think you can find out who send the coins. If B receives 2.7 XMR from a 10 addresses ... then you know that this sum probably comes from the same source addresses. So if you trace back, you can easily find who sent the coins. Fortunately for XMR it uses encryption. And that's where its value can be found. Again ... did I misunderstand something ?

NAV uses a subchain. But if you take away the encryption then it is again possible to trace back who sent the coins. The decoupling via the subchain doesn't help much. You know that at 16.00 h 9.35 NAV has been sent to the subchain and that at 16.01 h someone received 9.35 NAV. So not difficult to trace back. But the strength lies in the encryption. So nobody can see how much you sent, which makes it impossible to trace back who sent the coins.

I openly admit I know nothing about these cryptostuff ... but following my logic I don't see why there is this mixing and subchain. At this moment with my limited knowledge, these things look rather useless. The strength comes only from the encryption schemes. Please, if I am not right, correct me. I am always happy to learn something. These anon coins are interesting 

[soopy452000]

We are using a different system, using a Subchain to transport sending information from one node to a random other node. Using this we break the information on the nav blockchain. There is no transaction between you amd receiver, which can be traced, since the recipient do not get the coins you did send.

The working principles of these anon coins are really confusing. Sometimes I wonder whether these principles actually really work. For example, when you just do a mixing like Dash ... then you mix 3 transactions. But if I send 9.34313 Dash via a Masternode to B, then B will receive exactly 9.34313 Dash. How big are the odds that around that time someone else also sends this exact amount of Dash ? So it makes the mixing a useless operation. Or did I misunderstand something ?

Monero has a more complex scheme. I don't know the details for sure, but I remember it had something to do with a bunch of addresses that are generated and your money will be send in pieces over all those addresses and then from those addresses it will be send to the receiver. Take the encryption away, and then I still think you can find out who send the coins. If B receives 2.7 XMR from a 10 addresses ... then you know that this sum probably comes from the same source addresses. So if you trace back, you can easily find who sent the coins. Fortunately for XMR it uses encryption. And that's where its value can be found. Again ... did I misunderstand something ?

NAV uses a subchain. But if you take away the encryption then it is again possible to trace back who sent the coins. The decoupling via the subchain doesn't help much. You know that at 16.00 h 9.35 NAV has been sent to the subchain and that at 16.01 h someone received 9.35 NAV. So not difficult to trace back. But the strength lies in the encryption. So nobody can see how much you sent, which makes it impossible to trace back who sent the coins.

I openly admit I know nothing about these cryptostuff ... but following my logic I don't see why there is this mixing and subchain. At this moment with my limited knowledge, these things look rather useless. The strength comes only from the encryption schemes. Please, if I am not right, correct me. I am always happy to learn something. These anon coins are interesting 

Dear Diago,

Thank you very much for your kind questions, let me answer them one by one.

NAV ANON is in no way associated with DASH technology or masternode systems. It currently uses a Gateway to channel through particular transaction , this transaction information is encrypted and channeled through a subchain , where the transaction is then processed and directed to the destination address where the transaction arrives at the destination address in clusters. And there is in no way mixing used in the process where transactions are mixed to obtain an untraceable advantage. For the fact that our model itself is untraceable.

Double encryption is used in the channeling and throughout the entire process.

1. No-mixing - Due to the fact that the model of channeling doesn't require such process.

2. Untraceable - Due to the fact that there won't ever be 1 transaction of the same kind anywhere on the network.

Please do let me know , if you need further clarifications.

Warm Regards,
~SoopY~

[shahim]

That is what i tried to say...  Lol there is mo mixing or masternodes.  There is just no proofable link between sender and recipient
Anyone could have send the coins.

[Arvesen]

NAV looks stable at this level, it's just the beginning of the great growth that await us in the future i think.

NAV has more to offer than just a few days growth and i look forward to the web wallet and as pakage said, and I quote

the first fully decentralised, double encrypted, anonymous system running purely off block chain tech!

Great job so far!

[criptix]

We are using a different system, using a Subchain to transport sending information from one node to a random other node. Using this we break the information on the nav blockchain. There is no transaction between you amd receiver, which can be traced, since the recipient do not get the coins you did send.

The working principles of these anon coins are really confusing. Sometimes I wonder whether these principles actually really work. For example, when you just do a mixing like Dash ... then you mix 3 transactions. But if I send 9.34313 Dash via a Masternode to B, then B will receive exactly 9.34313 Dash. How big are the odds that around that time someone else also sends this exact amount of Dash ? So it makes the mixing a useless operation. Or did I misunderstand something ?

Monero has a more complex scheme. I don't know the details for sure, but I remember it had something to do with a bunch of addresses that are generated and your money will be send in pieces over all those addresses and then from those addresses it will be send to the receiver. Take the encryption away, and then I still think you can find out who send the coins. If B receives 2.7 XMR from a 10 addresses ... then you know that this sum probably comes from the same source addresses. So if you trace back, you can easily find who sent the coins. Fortunately for XMR it uses encryption. And that's where its value can be found. Again ... did I misunderstand something ?

NAV uses a subchain. But if you take away the encryption then it is again possible to trace back who sent the coins. The decoupling via the subchain doesn't help much. You know that at 16.00 h 9.35 NAV has been sent to the subchain and that at 16.01 h someone received 9.35 NAV. So not difficult to trace back. But the strength lies in the encryption. So nobody can see how much you sent, which makes it impossible to trace back who sent the coins.

I openly admit I know nothing about these cryptostuff ... but following my logic I don't see why there is this mixing and subchain. At this moment with my limited knowledge, these things look rather useless. The strength comes only from the encryption schemes. Please, if I am not right, correct me. I am always happy to learn something. These anon coins are interesting 

Dear Diago,

Thank you very much for your kind questions, let me answer them one by one.

NAV ANON is in no way associated with DASH technology or masternode systems. It currently uses a Gateway to channel through particular transaction , this transaction information is encrypted and channeled through a subchain , where the transaction is then processed and directed to the destination address where the transaction arrives at the destination address in clusters. And there is in no way mixing used in the process where transactions are mixed to obtain an untraceable advantage. For the fact that our model itself is untraceable.

Double encryption is used in the channeling and throughout the entire process.

1. No-mixing - Due to the fact that the model of channeling doesn't require such process.

2. Untraceable - Due to the fact that there won't ever be 1 transaction of the same kind anywhere on the network.

Please do let me know , if you need further clarifications.

Warm Regards,
~SoopY~

Hello,

Can you please explain what channeling means, how it works and why it is untraceable?

I still didnt get you pm shahim!

[soopy452000]

We are using a different system, using a Subchain to transport sending information from one node to a random other node. Using this we break the information on the nav blockchain. There is no transaction between you amd receiver, which can be traced, since the recipient do not get the coins you did send.

The working principles of these anon coins are really confusing. Sometimes I wonder whether these principles actually really work. For example, when you just do a mixing like Dash ... then you mix 3 transactions. But if I send 9.34313 Dash via a Masternode to B, then B will receive exactly 9.34313 Dash. How big are the odds that around that time someone else also sends this exact amount of Dash ? So it makes the mixing a useless operation. Or did I misunderstand something ?

Monero has a more complex scheme. I don't know the details for sure, but I remember it had something to do with a bunch of addresses that are generated and your money will be send in pieces over all those addresses and then from those addresses it will be send to the receiver. Take the encryption away, and then I still think you can find out who send the coins. If B receives 2.7 XMR from a 10 addresses ... then you know that this sum probably comes from the same source addresses. So if you trace back, you can easily find who sent the coins. Fortunately for XMR it uses encryption. And that's where its value can be found. Again ... did I misunderstand something ?

NAV uses a subchain. But if you take away the encryption then it is again possible to trace back who sent the coins. The decoupling via the subchain doesn't help much. You know that at 16.00 h 9.35 NAV has been sent to the subchain and that at 16.01 h someone received 9.35 NAV. So not difficult to trace back. But the strength lies in the encryption. So nobody can see how much you sent, which makes it impossible to trace back who sent the coins.

I openly admit I know nothing about these cryptostuff ... but following my logic I don't see why there is this mixing and subchain. At this moment with my limited knowledge, these things look rather useless. The strength comes only from the encryption schemes. Please, if I am not right, correct me. I am always happy to learn something. These anon coins are interesting 

Dear Diago,

Thank you very much for your kind questions, let me answer them one by one.

NAV ANON is in no way associated with DASH technology or masternode systems. It currently uses a Gateway to channel through particular transaction , this transaction information is encrypted and channeled through a subchain , where the transaction is then processed and directed to the destination address where the transaction arrives at the destination address in clusters. And there is in no way mixing used in the process where transactions are mixed to obtain an untraceable advantage. For the fact that our model itself is untraceable.

Double encryption is used in the channeling and throughout the entire process.

1. No-mixing - Due to the fact that the model of channeling doesn't require such process.

2. Untraceable - Due to the fact that there won't ever be 1 transaction of the same kind anywhere on the network.

Please do let me know , if you need further clarifications.

Warm Regards,
~SoopY~

Hello,

Can you please explain what channeling means, how it works and why it is untraceable?

I still didnt get you pm shahim!

Hi Cryiptix,

Channeling is the process directing a transaction towards the subchain and out from it.

It is untraceable for two reasons.

1 - Transaction information is encrypted within the main chain , as well as the subchain.

2 - Transaction destination outputs are random and clustered.

Please do go through the following post by Pakage for further information.

We've been here for the last 2 Years and ANON itself is quite old since last March , last year , there's plenty of information about it all over. Whitepapers etc as well as number of tests on it.

Please be kind enough to go through our OP as well.

Warm Regards,
~SoopY~

[Diego24]

Dear Diago,

Thank you very much for your kind questions, let me answer them one by one.

NAV ANON is in no way associated with DASH technology or masternode systems. It currently uses a Gateway to channel through particular transaction , this transaction information is encrypted and channeled through a subchain , where the transaction is then processed and directed to the destination address where the transaction arrives at the destination address in clusters. And there is in no way mixing used in the process where transactions are mixed to obtain an untraceable advantage. For the fact that our model itself is untraceable.

Double encryption is used in the channeling and throughout the entire process.

1. No-mixing - Due to the fact that the model of channeling doesn't require such process.

2. Untraceable - Due to the fact that there won't ever be 1 transaction of the same kind anywhere on the network.

Please do let me know , if you need further clarifications.

Warm Regards,
~SoopY~

Thanks for the explanation. But my problem stays the same. I do see that the encryption guarantees anonimity. What I do not see is why you need a subchain. If you remove the encryption and work with subchain, then probably you can't do an anonymous transaction. If you do encrypt and remove the subchain, then you will probably still be able to make an anonymous transaction. So actually I don't understand the purpose of the subchain. It sounds cool but at the moment I miss its purpose. Probably there is a good purpose but I don't manage to find it myself

[pakage]

Dear Diago,

Thank you very much for your kind questions, let me answer them one by one.

NAV ANON is in no way associated with DASH technology or masternode systems. It currently uses a Gateway to channel through particular transaction , this transaction information is encrypted and channeled through a subchain , where the transaction is then processed and directed to the destination address where the transaction arrives at the destination address in clusters. And there is in no way mixing used in the process where transactions are mixed to obtain an untraceable advantage. For the fact that our model itself is untraceable.

Double encryption is used in the channeling and throughout the entire process.

1. No-mixing - Due to the fact that the model of channeling doesn't require such process.

2. Untraceable - Due to the fact that there won't ever be 1 transaction of the same kind anywhere on the network.

Please do let me know , if you need further clarifications.

Warm Regards,
~SoopY~

Thanks for the explanation. But my problem stays the same. I do see that the encryption guarantees anonimity. What I do not see is why you need a subchain. If you remove the encryption and work with subchain, then probably you can't do an anonymous transaction. If you do encrypt and remove the subchain, then you will probably still be able to make an anonymous transaction. So actually I don't understand the purpose of the subchain. It sounds cool but at the moment I miss its purpose. Probably there is a good purpose but I don't manage to find it myself

It is complicated stuff! I am working on putting together a whitepaper which explains it all in detail. Hopefully this will clear any misunderstandings. I hope to have this finished for publication before we re-launch the anon network!

[Noolz39]

NAV like as EXP in the beginning
see in next year

[soopy452000]

Dear Diago,

Thank you very much for your kind questions, let me answer them one by one.

NAV ANON is in no way associated with DASH technology or masternode systems. It currently uses a Gateway to channel through particular transaction , this transaction information is encrypted and channeled through a subchain , where the transaction is then processed and directed to the destination address where the transaction arrives at the destination address in clusters. And there is in no way mixing used in the process where transactions are mixed to obtain an untraceable advantage. For the fact that our model itself is untraceable.

Double encryption is used in the channeling and throughout the entire process.

1. No-mixing - Due to the fact that the model of channeling doesn't require such process.

2. Untraceable - Due to the fact that there won't ever be 1 transaction of the same kind anywhere on the network.

Please do let me know , if you need further clarifications.

Warm Regards,
~SoopY~

Thanks for the explanation. But my problem stays the same. I do see that the encryption guarantees anonimity. What I do not see is why you need a subchain. If you remove the encryption and work with subchain, then probably you can't do an anonymous transaction. If you do encrypt and remove the subchain, then you will probably still be able to make an anonymous transaction. So actually I don't understand the purpose of the subchain. It sounds cool but at the moment I miss its purpose. Probably there is a good purpose but I don't manage to find it myself

Subchain is what makes NAV , NAV mate. And what it does unique , its an extra layer of security that helps keep transaction information further anonymous and un-linked , it serves its own purpose which is why it does what it does. Nothing on the Anonymous platform is purposeless.

Hope I was able to further address your issues.

Warm Regards,
~SoopY~

[Diego24]

It is complicated stuff! I am working on putting together a whitepaper which explains it all in detail. Hopefully this will clear any misunderstandings. I hope to have this finished for publication before we re-launch the anon network!

Ok, awesome !!! Can't wait to read it 

[Diego24]

Subchain is what makes NAV , NAV mate. And what it does unique , its an extra layer of security that helps keep transaction information further anonymous and un-linked , it serves its own purpose which is why it does what it does. Nothing on the Anonymous platform is purposeless.

Hope I was able to further address your issues.

Warm Regards,
~SoopY~

Well, thank you very much for your effort to explain it. But I still didn't get the answer I was looking for. Of course the subchain is what makes NAV NAV. And I know it is unique to NAV. And I know it was added with the purpose of an extra level of security. What I am questioning is whether it does indeed add an extra level of security. I challenged it by questioning whether if the encryption is removed, the subchain does add an extra level of security. If I send 9.345 NAV to the subchain in a nonencrypted way, and a few seconds later the subchain sends 9.345 NAV to receiver B in a nonencrypted way ... it is obvious who sent that amount to the receiver.

The only thing I can come up with ... if I send anonymous from A to B without a subchain, then maybe the traffic can be linked from A to B, but nobody knows how much money is transferred between both. When you send it to a subchain, money comes in and out the subchain so you can't follow the traffic anymore. The only thing you can do is base yourself on timestamps. But if the coin is used a lot, then it is impossible to trace back.

But OK. Pakage just told me he will explain it in his whitepaper. Maybe then it will be more clear to me what benefit the subchain adds to the anonimity process.

Sorry for asking so many questions. I don't want to be a pain in the ass. I am just trying to understand how things work out of pure intrest. And as I have not much knowledge about cryptography, I need to ask some detailed questions if I truely want to understand stuff.

[chases]

The dump happened while I was at work and didn't get out at the top, but managed to still make some very nice gains.  Now hoping for 50 or 60 so I can rebuild my stash and hold. Thanks NAV team!

[soopy452000]

Subchain is what makes NAV , NAV mate. And what it does unique , its an extra layer of security that helps keep transaction information further anonymous and un-linked , it serves its own purpose which is why it does what it does. Nothing on the Anonymous platform is purposeless.

Hope I was able to further address your issues.

Warm Regards,
~SoopY~

Well, thank you very much for your effort to explain it. But I still didn't get the answer I was looking for. Of course the subchain is what makes NAV NAV. And I know it is unique to NAV. And I know it was added with the purpose of an extra level of security. What I am questioning is whether it does indeed add an extra level of security. I challenged it by questioning whether if the encryption is removed, the subchain does add an extra level of security. If I send 9.345 NAV to the subchain in a nonencrypted way, and a few seconds later the subchain sends 9.345 NAV to receiver B in a nonencrypted way ... it is obvious who sent that amount to the receiver.

The only thing I can come up with ... if I send anonymous from A to B without a subchain, then maybe the traffic can be linked from A to B, but nobody knows how much money is transferred between both. When you send it to a subchain, money comes in and out the subchain so you can't follow the traffic anymore. The only thing you can do is base yourself on timestamps. But if the coin is used a lot, then it is impossible to trace back.

But OK. Pakage just told me he will explain it in his whitepaper. Maybe then it will be more clear to me what benefit the subchain adds to the anonimity process.

Sorry for asking so many questions. I don't want to be a pain in the ass. I am just trying to understand how things work out of pure intrest. And as I have not much knowledge about cryptography, I need to ask some detailed questions if I truely want to understand stuff.

Hi Diego,

Haha its alright mate , please do ask whatever you feel that you want to clear out with regards to how NAV works and the process.

Let me ask you a counter question , because I believe it will give you further insight on how NAV works.

Have you used the NAV ANON yet , as in have you sent or received any transaction using it? If you did I'm sure all your doubts would vanish.

Warm Regards,
~SoopY~

PS: I'm happy people ask questions on things that they would like to further understand and I love to answer them.

[shahim]

hehe nice that people get interested into how anon works.

Just beside:

"If I send 9.345 NAV to the subchain in a nonencrypted way"  

There is no way sending it nonencrypted. Every subchain node receiving a non encrypted or wrong encrypted data, will directly cancell the process and return the coins to the senders address.   No encryption is like a invalid tx for the node!

[mcptrman]

WOW, Thanks Shahim,

As I watch your explanations, I too am learning 

I especially like:

"For the fact that our model itself is untraceable."

&

"wrong encrypted data, will directly cancel the process and return the coins to the senders address.  "

THESE are the (as I understand it), the main purpose of a crypto currency.

Thanks again,
Ed, aka-mcptrman

hehe nice that people get interested into how anon works.

Just beside:

"If I send 9.345 NAV to the subchain in a nonencrypted way"  

There is no way sending it nonencrypted. Every subchain node receiving a non encrypted or wrong encrypted data, will directly cancell the process and return the coins to the senders address.   No encryption is like a invalid tx for the node!

[hashforce101]

Basic as Possible -

Remember there is a separate Pool of coins inside the NAV Subchain . Your NAV Wallet coins and the traded coins on Exchanges are what we see and deal with on a daily basis .

Inside the NAV Subchain sits a pool of coins that will remain inside the NAV Subchain for Eternity.

So when you send your coins from your Home PC NAV Wallet by selecting the NAV Anonymous button . The NAV coins leaves your wallet , are sent and encrypted and reach the NAV Subchain . The coins inside the NAV Subchain react to the original sent encrypted coins and encrypt again its pool of coins of equal value and split the coins into chunks of different sizes to send . The Subchain now holding coins that can not be linked to the original sent NAV coins are sent to the NAV destination wallet. Double Encrypted

The Transactor -The NAV Subchain talks to the sending NAV wallet and talks to the NAV receiving wallet.

The sending and receiving NAV coins have gone via the Double Encryption split into various amounts and arrive at the destination wallet with required amount.

When you do not choose the NAV Anonymous option in the wallet before sending - The coins are sent normally without encryption and arrive at destination wallet

If you tried to trace the coins back . The NAV Subchain has received encrypted original coins and replaced them with its own pool of coins which you would remember have been encrypted again.

There is no direct link between the original coins and the coins arriving at the destination address

The NAV Subchain is totally unique to the NAV Coin

Basic as possible - hope it helps

The anonymous sending is as simple & easy as ticking the Anonymous option . The system does the rest.

[soopy452000]

Too many fake hypers on trollbox? 

what is happening?

thought this was a legit coin 
 
turns out to be another dev scamcoin 

Pump and Dump premine again 

Awww Dranster , we have no control over markets my love.

Warm Regards,
~SoopY~

PS: For your lovely information , there was never a premine for  NavCoin. #talkwithfacts.

[hashforce101]

Too many fake hypers on trollbox?  

what is happening?

thought this was a legit coin  
 
turns out to be another dev scamcoin  

Pump and Dump premine again  

Lets knock down your criticism. The coin has 0 premine.

A press release - NAV Coin Releases World’s First X13 Mobile Wallet

You can not copy a world first

http://www.coindesk.com/press-releases/nav-coin-goes-live-pos-online-wallet/