bustabit.com -- The Social Gambling Game

[kolloh]

That is a pretty interesting way of handling investing and fusing investors and gamblers together a bit more. I'm wondering how much of an impact this would have on the bankroll and max wins but curious to see how it it goes. Definitely seems like a nice added bonus for gamblers though!

[dooglus]

their profits are divested in the form of valor, and they need to either trade or gamble to get silver to convert it to bits, to reinvest

So 1 silver combines with 1 valor to make 1 bit, causing the silver and valor to vanish?

From gamblers point of view, the new setup is pretty great. You effectively will get a ~50% off the house edge, selling your silver to investors

That 50% number would depend on the market price of silver wouldn't it? Since valor is earned at a 1% rate (by definition), and silver is earned at a 0.5% rate (assuming an average 0.5% house edge) there will be roughly twice as much valor as silver in the world. That would lead to a glut of valor in the world, driving its price ever downwards.

Maybe the average house edge is being increased to 1% so the supply or silver matches that of valor?

Anyway it's an interesting concept.

[Coingiver]

You'll be paying a dilution fee of "10%" when investing. why is it so high ryan ?  Is this used for the Faucet ? 10%

[dooglus]

My current thinking is that the most straight-forward is just a flat 1% house edge on all bets.

Innovative!

When players do well and win money, there will be a glut of valor on the market (and no new silver) so I expect the house edge will be rather closer to 1%.

That's only the case if the winning players insist of selling their valor instantly even though the price is low. A smart player (yeah, I know) would wait for others to lose, increasing the supply of silver, and bolstering the demand for valor. In the long run the price should return to 0.5 bits per valor, if not more, and so the house edge for the patient player should be no more than 0.5%.

And when players lose money, there will be a glut of silver on the market (investors wanting to realize their profits) so the silver be worth more and the house edge will be closer to 0%.

Similarly smart investors will be unwilling to part with their silver too cheaply, understanding that demand for silver will pick up when it becomes rarer than valor.

Smart traders I imagine will want to take advantage of this and "time arbitrage" the value of silver and valor to ~0.5 bits.

So it would be +EV to buy any silver or valor that is on sale below 0.4 bits, with a view to selling it at 0.5 bits later. That makes sense.

My hope is it'll be a fun little ecosystem

Will there be an exchange built in to the game site?

[dooglus]

the only fee that actually goes to me is a 10% profit cut from investors

Paid in silver, I presume?

[DarkStar_]

BTW I'm still trying to figure out what a good dilution fee is, I'm thinking of anywhere from 5% to 25%. Any thoughts?

I would go 2% to 5%. It's high enough to prevent day trading (for most people anyway. Losing 0.5 BTC (Assuming you were a 10 BTC investor) every time a whale shows up is quite heavy), but not too high that new investors won't enter, especially large ones. If a 100 BTC investor showed up and saw a 10% dilution fee, I'm not sure if they would still invest because losing 10 BTC instantly really sucks, and the bankroll would probably stay similar to the amount it was before the grace period is over.



You need to add something showing the max bet on the game page, or a notice if it's too high and what the max is. I tried betting 1000 tBTC with auto cashout at 1.01x, which couldn't be placed but didn't return an error.

[kolloh]

BTW I'm still trying to figure out what a good dilution fee is, I'm thinking of anywhere from 5% to 25%. Any thoughts?

I would go 2% to 5%. It's high enough to prevent day trading (for most people anyway. Losing 0.5 BTC (Assuming you were a 10 BTC investor) every time a whale shows up is quite heavy), but not too high that new investors won't enter, especially large ones. If a 100 BTC investor showed up and saw a 10% dilution fee, I'm not sure if they would still invest because losing 10 BTC instantly really sucks, and the bankroll would probably stay similar to the amount it was before the grace period is over.



You need to add something showing the max bet on the game page, or a notice if it's too high and what the max is. I tried betting 1000 tBTC with auto cashout at 1.01x, which couldn't be placed but didn't return an error.

Yeah, I think that if the dilution fee is too high, it probably would turn away some investors after the grace period. You mentioned that investors profits will be automatically divested each day, would you have to pay the dilution fee each time you reinvest those profits?

[Cherylstar86]

You mentioned that investors profits will be automatically divested each day, would you have to pay the dilution fee each time you reinvest those profits?

Yup   But all in all it won't make much difference (you pay dilution fees when you re-invest, but collect them when other people re-invest..)

Yeah thats the nature of the game, so you better follow and participate with the practices of the required dilution fees and if you don't agree with it? Better stop playing with their games. I know profits is always there all you have to do is be patient all the time and don't over react.

[RGR991]

So in the new version if the 0 is removed(no more bonus) and you get 1 valor per 100 bits wagered.

What stops someone from max betting at 1.00x(no chance of losing) to get risk free valor.

[DarkStar_]

So in the new version if the 0 is removed(no more bonus) and you get 1 valor per 100 bits wagered.

What stops someone from max betting at 1.00x(no chance of losing) to get risk free valor.

Minimum multiplier in the dev build is a 1.01x multiplier, so people can't do that any more.

[Henkkaa]

Why are there dilution fees? I kinda want to invest in a trusted casino, but losing 10% of mu investment right away is bad, especially given that the average edge is only 0,38%. Would take ages to earn back that 10% and then some.

I would also like to know, what valors are? Are they some sort of upgrade to the 1% bonus rewarding system?
Is there a way to overcome house edge and make profit with a betting script, since there is that bonus system? What would be the minimum bet to get profit from the bonus?

[libertynow]

I'm now selling the code to "EDGE" bot. I closed the bot last week for a variety of reasons not related to it's success. You can the see forum history here: https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=13275.msg229488#msg229488 and the profit history here: https://www.bustabit.com/user/EDGE_NXTAE PM me with an offer/questions if you're interested

[Dogedigital]

Wow! thanksfinland turned 25 bits into 10 BTC with an amazing 400,000.00x cashout. Totally shattering the previous record from cowbay of a 50,001x cashout.

Dayummmmm.

[Henkkaa]

I'm now selling the code to "EDGE" bot. I closed the bot last week for a variety of reasons not related to it's success. You can the see forum history here: https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=13275.msg229488#msg229488 and the profit history here: https://www.bustabit.com/user/EDGE_NXTAE PM me with an offer/questions if you're interested

What kind of return does this actually provide? The amount it has won so far must be unsustainable over the long run. If it would make 2,000,000 bits in EV over 56 games, you wouldn't be selling it.

So what does the bot do? I assume it uses a strategy to overcome to house edge with the 1% bonus system. If I left it running 24/7, how much returns could I expect from a 0.1btc capital!

[libertynow]

My current plans  are to remove bonuses completely from the main game (and put that in a separate, much more pvp game with ~10% bonuses). I really hate to remove the bonuses and variable-house edge, but with the vast majority of bustabit players playing "bonus oblivious" I can't help but feel I'm doing them a disservice.

This is really disappointing.  The bonuses is what makes the game actually possible to beat long term.  Seems like a money grab decision.  It's really too bad because it's currently a unique game, now it'll just be another casino website.  whoopee, as if that's really needed....

How would the pvp game work? What would be the incentive for anyone to play at all?

[statdude]

Whoa, so the whole bonus hunting element is leaving the main game?

[RHavar]

This is really disappointing.  The bonuses is what makes the game actually possible to beat long term.  Seems like a money grab decision.  It's really too bad because it's currently a unique game, now it'll just be another casino website.  whoopee, as if that's really needed....

Not really, the change isn't expected to make me any less or more money. The issue is this, I love the idea of pvp gambling and think it's really cool and indeed something that makes bustabit unique. However for players who play purely against the house,  the pvp aspect does them a disservice (they unknowingly get taken advantage of by players who are playing pvp).

Based on my unscientific polling and analysis, leads me to believe that playing bonus oblivious is by far the most common way to play bustabit. So for that reason, I think the most reasonable and fair thing to do, is split it into two games. One specifically for people who want to play against each other. And one for people who want to play against the house

 

How would the pvp game work? What would be the incentive for anyone to play at all?

I'm currently working with the idea that in the pvp version, the multiplier starts at 0.9x and increases from there. The bonuses would work just like they do currently on bustabit, except that they would be an average of 10% instead of 1%

[LosDeXibalbaMC]

quote from RHavar
Wow! thanksfinland turned 25 bits into 10 BTC with an amazing 400,000.00x cashout. Totally shattering the previous record from cowbay of a 50,001x cashout.

Good Shot Thanksfinland .

Congratulations the kitty hunter. , Now I challenge you to multiply your winnings of 9 million X 33.3 in order to win the first place of the BaB podium

I am the LosDeXibalbaMC player,,  https://www.bustabit.com/user/LosDeXibalbaMC

Good success to all Bustabit players and great thanks to the great boss of BaB Don Ryan, Go Master Ryan Sky dont have a Limit!!

[torry28]

Wow! thanksfinland turned 25 bits into 10 BTC with an amazing 400,000.00x cashout. Totally shattering the previous record from cowbay of a 50,001x cashout.

what a crazy luck, but when i checked his net profit https://www.bustabit.com/user/thanksfinland He's still in big negative profit (He betting a lot with 25 bits), thought his profit already in positive.

Congratulations the kitty hunter. , Now I challenge you to multiply your winnings of 9 million X 33.3 in order to win the first place of the BaB podium

It is not easy, and he could losing his 9 millions bits (around 10 BTC) when he does that.
Um, your net profit 252BTC...

[kolloh]

Wow! thanksfinland turned 25 bits into 10 BTC with an amazing 400,000.00x cashout. Totally shattering the previous record from cowbay of a 50,001x cashout.

Now that is indeed an impressive cashout and definitely way more that the last record. 25 bits to 10btc is such a big win. Congrats on that hit thanksfinland!