GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

[eightcylinders]

I am still avg about .04 per day after costs with about 135 mh/s with mostly zenhashlets....but it was .06-.07 just last Friday...

LTCgear is the way to go right now...are they holding up in payouts?

I considered LTCGear how are their lower end offerings doing? (ie: FarmShare, ASIC share,Mod M1s)

I dont want to hijack this thread. But it seems that the general consensus, even on Hashtalk, is that LTCGear (which, strangely enough is allowed to live on HT) is the go to place for diversification alongside of GAW. 

LTCG is amazing but there are a lot of unknowns just like GAW. Pretty much all of these cloud services should be taken as gambles, some are less so than others. Because of the payout at LTCG I'd put them as a higher risk investment than GAW but I'd put GAW as higher than say Genesis because the latter is more transparent especially when it comes to showing the actual hardware.

Spread your risk accordingly.

There are definitely some risks with LTCGear many of the same as with GAW: lack of transparency, above market profits, below market prices being the major red flags.

However, you can trace the payouts to the mined coins (unlike GAW, where the payouts are not traceable as far as I have been able to tell).  There is a thread on litecointalk.org where one of the recent payouts (Oct 7 I think) was traced to a single solo miner with a massive number of found blocks (that doesn't mean a single machine of course).  That at least shows me there is mining activity.  Still have concerns I would not invest too much but I did transfer over 50% of my former GAW hashlets to LTCgear (and FYI I have more than 100% of the hashpower, and about double the payout versus GAW).

[alienesb]

I am still avg about .04 per day after costs with about 135 mh/s with mostly zenhashlets....but it was .06-.07 just last Friday...

LTCgear is the way to go right now...are they holding up in payouts?

I considered LTCGear how are their lower end offerings doing? (ie: FarmShare, ASIC share,Mod M1s)

I dont want to hijack this thread. But it seems that the general consensus, even on Hashtalk, is that LTCGear (which, strangely enough is allowed to live on HT) is the go to place for diversification alongside of GAW.  

LTCG is amazing but there are a lot of unknowns just like GAW. Pretty much all of these cloud services should be taken as gambles, some are less so than others. Because of the payout at LTCG I'd put them as a higher risk investment than GAW but I'd put GAW as higher than say Genesis because the latter is more transparent especially when it comes to showing the actual hardware.

Spread your risk accordingly.

From what I saw on this forum and on hashtalk GAW has shown as much as Genesis when it comes to miners. I would even say that GAW revealed more, because someone got the locations of 2 of their buildings and showed them on google maps.

Dude, you have a koolade answer for everything! Believe what you want, that's your right.

[dyask]

This whole thread is just bitching about GAW for one absurd reason to the next.   First it was because how well ZenPool was doing now it is about because ZenPool isn't doing so well because GAW lost the customer who was renting out the hashing power.    The fact that we now understand how the ZenPool achieved its results makes the point of the thread moot.

So bitch away, meanwhile I'm closing in on a positive ROI.   

[cma3]

I am still avg about .04 per day after costs with about 135 mh/s with mostly zenhashlets....but it was .06-.07 just last Friday...

LTCgear is the way to go right now...are they holding up in payouts?

I considered LTCGear how are their lower end offerings doing? (ie: FarmShare, ASIC share,Mod M1s)

I dont want to hijack this thread. But it seems that the general consensus, even on Hashtalk, is that LTCGear (which, strangely enough is allowed to live on HT) is the go to place for diversification alongside of GAW.  

LTCG is amazing but there are a lot of unknowns just like GAW. Pretty much all of these cloud services should be taken as gambles, some are less so than others. Because of the payout at LTCG I'd put them as a higher risk investment than GAW but I'd put GAW as higher than say Genesis because the latter is more transparent especially when it comes to showing the actual hardware.

Spread your risk accordingly.

Roger that @alienesb ,thanks!

Here is my Excel spreadsheet I use to generate what my minimums should be regarding payout vs. fees. I have not bought or sold anything in a while now so unfortunately the Zens are not looking good since the pool crashed a few day ago. Basically, my 300MH/s and 3000GH/s have dropped almost 50% in earnings over the previous 10 days where my home farm - about half the size of my GAW/Zen account - has declined less than 1% in the same amount of time and remains more profitable with my mainstream pools. Yes, I have solar power feeding these monsters, but still... something is not right on Front!

http://booth.pro/data/ZenCloud_BasicStats_102114.xlsx
(the auto BTC price updates every 10min unless you disable it. Just add your miner data and pool rates to see the magic)

Enjoy - your mileage may very.

Scott

Fantastic Scott! i will be studying this tonight, Thanks for sharing!

There are definitely some risks with LTCGear many of the same as with GAW: lack of transparency, above market profits, below market prices being the major red flags.

However, you can trace the payouts to the mined coins (unlike GAW, where the payouts are not traceable as far as I have been able to tell).  There is a thread on litecointalk.org where one of the recent payouts (Oct 7 I think) was traced to a single solo miner with a massive number of found blocks (that doesn't mean a single machine of course).  That at least shows me there is mining activity.  Still have concerns I would not invest too much but I did transfer over 50% of my former GAW hashlets to LTCgear (and FYI I have more than 100% of the hashpower, and about double the payout versus GAW).

Interesting insight about LTCG. From the limited research I did (mostly anecdotal accounts from users) I am gauging them in much the same way you describe. Thanks for weighing in on this, its very helpful.

[Tripjammer]

I am still avg about .04 per day after costs with about 135 mh/s with mostly zenhashlets....but it was .06-.07 just last Friday...

LTCgear is the way to go right now...are they holding up in payouts?

I considered LTCGear how are their lower end offerings doing? (ie: FarmShare, ASIC share,Mod M1s)

I dont want to hijack this thread. But it seems that the general consensus, even on Hashtalk, is that LTCGear (which, strangely enough is allowed to live on HT) is the go to place for diversification alongside of GAW.  

LTCG is amazing but there are a lot of unknowns just like GAW. Pretty much all of these cloud services should be taken as gambles, some are less so than others. Because of the payout at LTCG I'd put them as a higher risk investment than GAW but I'd put GAW as higher than say Genesis because the latter is more transparent especially when it comes to showing the actual hardware.

Spread your risk accordingly.

I got some hash at genesis too just 20 mh/s but genesis is stable and predictable unlike gaw. Gaw use to be predictable...I want to know if LTCgear has stable payouts like genesis?

[cma3]

This whole thread is just bitching about GAW for one absurd reason to the next.   First it was because how well ZenPool was doing now it is about because ZenPool isn't doing so well because GAW lost the customer who was renting out the hashing power.    The fact that we now understand how the ZenPool achieved its results makes the point of the thread moot.

So bitch away, meanwhile I'm closing in on a positive ROI.   

Frankly, I am along for the ride with GAW and also see positive ROI in the horizon. Really bad things (read: closing up shop) would need to happen for me not to hit it.


That said, I want to diversify -- but wont do it blindly.

[Tripjammer]

This whole thread is just bitching about GAW for one absurd reason to the next.   First it was because how well ZenPool was doing now it is about because ZenPool isn't doing so well because GAW lost the customer who was renting out the hashing power.    The fact that we now understand how the ZenPool achieved its results makes the point of the thread moot.

So bitch away, meanwhile I'm closing in on a positive ROI.  

LOL whatever you are suffering in profits just like the rest of us unless you got massive amounts of hashlets..profits use to be good here...better than all the rest of the cloud miners until about 5 days ago. They need to fix it.

But yeah I am getting close to roi too...I'm into to gaw for the long run...but anymore money will go to genesis and LTCgear...hopefully genesis gets it's X11 off the ground soon...

How much hash u got?

[Slark]

I am still avg about .04 per day after costs with about 135 mh/s with mostly zenhashlets....but it was .06-.07 just last Friday...

LTCgear is the way to go right now...are they holding up in payouts?

I considered LTCGear how are their lower end offerings doing? (ie: FarmShare, ASIC share,Mod M1s)

I dont want to hijack this thread. But it seems that the general consensus, even on Hashtalk, is that LTCGear (which, strangely enough is allowed to live on HT) is the go to place for diversification alongside of GAW.  

LTCG is amazing but there are a lot of unknowns just like GAW. Pretty much all of these cloud services should be taken as gambles, some are less so than others. Because of the payout at LTCG I'd put them as a higher risk investment than GAW but I'd put GAW as higher than say Genesis because the latter is more transparent especially when it comes to showing the actual hardware.

Spread your risk accordingly.

I got some hash at genesis too just 20 mh/s but genesis is stable and predictable unlike gaw. Gaw use to be predictable...I want to know if LTCgear has stable payouts like genesis?

GAW is very good and it is not unpredictable at all. LTC is still more expensive...

[suchmoon]

Since we now have about a month until Hashbase and probably a few weeks until VB deadline, I think I'm going to update the OP to reflect the current status of things, just waiting now for crickets to stop here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827552

dyask, I'm not so sure we know yet how ZenPool works, nor is that the only unanswered question. The "private rental" doesn't explain much, does it? It still leaves the question open as to which Scrypt coin(s) the hashrate is targeting, or if it ever was Scrypt to begin with.

The main problem with this uncertainty is not the geeky desire to know what makes it tick, but how to make an informed decision. For example investing in SHA256 mining has one big unknown variable (difficulty), everything else is usually known - initial cost, maintenance, etc. With Zen and hashlets in general it's not so simple because the big variable seems to be not a technical one like difficulty but rather some undefined business strategy.

[coinGeek]

...

GAW is very good and it is not unpredictable at all. LTC is still more expensive...

GAW is as unpredictable as it always was. That is, unless you would have predicted two weeks ago that zenpool payments would fall like a rock and double dipping would stop being as double as it used to be.

Good point about LTCG though. The buy in price is steep. And I agree with others, that it's a risky investment. On the up side, I think a lot of new investment is going into LTCGear so he can afford the big payouts and growing his farm (or whatever he's doing). I've been in for a few weeks and I expect to get out with my shirt.

Meanwhile, IMHA the time to buy into GAW is over. The "smart" coins are not going in, for the most part, so whatever will fund future payout's will not be coming from massive new hashlet sales. Who would buy when the profit is crap average and trending lower?

What's a Dollar Worth? Hashlets vs. Litecoin GEAR:

https://ltcgearcalc.com/hashlets-vs-ltcgear.php

[knowhow]

all i can say here is zenpool back to top profits pools as before soo we have to be patient and support this great project... as looks like 5pentahash has been bought.... soo x11 should be the target currencys till end year for sure till now i cant complaint i got few haslets and a prime that is rocking income kkk i suppose roi in 5 months if this results keeps ,without sell my miners.... if i sell them roi should be in less much less time for sure lol im getting good results at zencloud as genesis mining soo i support both of them and i wanna invest more in both companys    ps: i paid 43 dollars if i bought them as most of you at 16 dollars ROI would be around 90 days even less for sure some of you sold some prime recover investment and now are playing with just pure profit soo no complaints stop crying the rate drop im new and im not complaint as i wanna my investment long not short and jump......never invest what you cant afford to loose anywhere this is the "KNOWHOW"

at the moment cex.io is worse then genesis and zencloud the cloud mining to who has miner at home maybe another results for me this was the best move since im in the crypto currency since day 29 september when i had invested just curiosity when i enter
GHS at 0.00243998 BTC
and few days after GHS at 0.00262 BTC AND This raised a bit more i sold my ghs there some days ago
and now the GHS at 0.002400 BTC cex.io to high fee maintenance soo a lot users leaving it selling ghs looks like the cost will go around 0,0019btc till end year

[suchmoon]

as looks like 5pentahash has been bought.... soo x11 should be the target currencys till end year for sure

What did I miss? GAW bought 5 PH of GPUs?

[knowhow]

as looks like 5pentahash has been bought.... soo x11 should be the target currencys till end year for sure

What did I miss? GAW bought 5 PH of GPUs?

dont know my bet is those power is for those but who knows it we will know in future near for sure

[dyask]

Since we now have about a month until Hashbase and probably a few weeks until VB deadline, I think I'm going to update the OP to reflect the current status of things, just waiting now for crickets to stop here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827552

dyask, I'm not so sure we know yet how ZenPool works, nor is that the only unanswered question. The "private rental" doesn't explain much, does it? It still leaves the question open as to which Scrypt coin(s) the hashrate is targeting, or if it ever was Scrypt to begin with.

The main problem with this uncertainty is not the geeky desire to know what makes it tick, but how to make an informed decision. For example investing in SHA256 mining has one big unknown variable (difficulty), everything else is usually known - initial cost, maintenance, etc. With Zen and hashlets in general it's not so simple because the big variable seems to be not a technical one like difficulty but rather some undefined business strategy.

There was a thread from Dr. Paul that listed other things related to how ZenPool works on HT.   However renting out a large chuck of hash power clearly could make up the difference seen in payouts.   Even when the ZenPool was up over .0006 BTC/MHS there was a lot of variation.   Your concern seems to be you can't track it.   The problem is that is something you'll never be able to track.    

If your hold up is you don't know GAW's business strategy, that is something you can't hope to get resolved.  

At this point it is pretty clear that ZenPool is real, albeit complex.   The relationship between how much hashing has been sold vs how much actually exists isn't clear, but logically they can't have less hashing power than sold for very long periods of time if the business is valid.   No way to easily address that issue.   However it appears that GAW is really in this for the long run so that is a big plus.   A lot of cloud hashing sites are very fuzzy compared to the GAW stuff.

[dyask]

That said, I want to diversify -- but wont do it blindly.

Diversifying is extremely important.   At anytime you should have multiple sources of BTC income.    Everyplace has risks, for example you might have noticed a lot of pumping of LTCgear, but that seems to be a one man show right now, so that is a different set of risks.   

[Snipe85]

I am still avg about .04 per day after costs with about 135 mh/s with mostly zenhashlets....but it was .06-.07 just last Friday...

LTCgear is the way to go right now...are they holding up in payouts?

I considered LTCGear how are their lower end offerings doing? (ie: FarmShare, ASIC share,Mod M1s)

I dont want to hijack this thread. But it seems that the general consensus, even on Hashtalk, is that LTCGear (which, strangely enough is allowed to live on HT) is the go to place for diversification alongside of GAW.  

LTCG is amazing but there are a lot of unknowns just like GAW. Pretty much all of these cloud services should be taken as gambles, some are less so than others. Because of the payout at LTCG I'd put them as a higher risk investment than GAW but I'd put GAW as higher than say Genesis because the latter is more transparent especially when it comes to showing the actual hardware.

Spread your risk accordingly.

I got some hash at genesis too just 20 mh/s but genesis is stable and predictable unlike gaw. Gaw use to be predictable...I want to know if LTCgear has stable payouts like genesis?

When choosing a mining company the first thing you should ask is what do I know about the owners and will I be able to contact anyone if they bail.
The more personal details they disclose the better, but these of course have to be verified. So if a company doesn't give out their address and name of the owner, you shouldn't even consider investing.
It doesn't matter if the site is paying out, most of these sites aren't paying for more than 2 or 3 months, so you can't really call them stable.

[1echo]

LTCgear has unknown owners, never reply to mails etc - their offer is too good to be true

[hashie]

When choosing a mining company the first thing you should ask is what do I know about the owners and will I be able to contact anyone if they bail.
The more personal details they disclose the better, but these of course have to be verified. So if a company doesn't give out their address and name of the owner, you shouldn't even consider investing.
It doesn't matter if the site is paying out, most of these sites aren't paying for more than 2 or 3 months, so you can't really call them stable.

This is completely irrelevant when you have essentially waived all of your rights in the terms of service. I suggest reading it - knowing the operators does not help if you have zero legal recourse if they shut down everything tomorrow.

-Sahra

[crashoveride54902]

Since we now have about a month until Hashbase and probably a few weeks until VB deadline, I think I'm going to update the OP to reflect the current status of things, just waiting now for crickets to stop here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827552

dyask, I'm not so sure we know yet how ZenPool works, nor is that the only unanswered question. The "private rental" doesn't explain much, does it? It still leaves the question open as to which Scrypt coin(s) the hashrate is targeting, or if it ever was Scrypt to begin with.

The main problem with this uncertainty is not the geeky desire to know what makes it tick, but how to make an informed decision. For example investing in SHA256 mining has one big unknown variable (difficulty), everything else is usually known - initial cost, maintenance, etc. With Zen and hashlets in general it's not so simple because the big variable seems to be not a technical one like difficulty but rather some undefined business strategy.

There was a thread from Dr. Paul that listed other things related to how ZenPool works on HT.   However renting out a large chuck of hash power clearly could make up the difference seen in payouts.   Even when the ZenPool was up over .0006 BTC/MHS there was a lot of variation.   Your concern seems to be you can't track it.   The problem is that is something you'll never be able to track.    

If your hold up is you don't know GAW's business strategy, that is something you can't hope to get resolved.  

At this point it is pretty clear that ZenPool is real, albeit complex.   The relationship between how much hashing has been sold vs how much actually exists isn't clear, but logically they can't have less hashing power than sold for very long periods of time if the business is valid.   No way to easily address that issue.   However it appears that GAW is really in this for the long run so that is a big plus.   A lot of cloud hashing sites are very fuzzy compared to the GAW stuff.

I have to disagree with you on that part...gaw is just as fuzzy as the rest of them...and when they do tell ya something...ya can almost bet the farm that in a few days that'll change...and probably a few days after it'll change back or to something totally different again

[Snipe85]

LTCgear has unknown owners, never reply to mails etc - their offer is too good to be true

That sould be similar to PB mining, nobody knows who and where they are and people are sending them money just because they "had steady payouts".

When choosing a mining company the first thing you should ask is what do I know about the owners and will I be able to contact anyone if they bail.
The more personal details they disclose the better, but these of course have to be verified. So if a company doesn't give out their address and name of the owner, you shouldn't even consider investing.
It doesn't matter if the site is paying out, most of these sites aren't paying for more than 2 or 3 months, so you can't really call them stable.

This is completely irrelevant when you have essentially waived all of your rights in the terms of service. I suggest reading it - knowing the operators does not help if you have zero legal recourse if they shut down everything tomorrow.

-Sahra

If you have the name and address, at least you know where to look, like that guy that went to Mt. Gox (not that it helped him).
Those, who paid Lunamine, would welcome the opportunity.