GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

[bathrobehero]

^Ah, you bastard!


Great stuff Manfred87!

[Searing]

Going back to the question in the title, "Hashlet - does it really exist?" I agree with others who have already basically said no, in the sense that it's not a physical piece of hardware in a data center that you bought and own. It's an cloud miner that acts like hardware but is really emulated on shared hardware.

One example of "acts like" is in the Zencloud Dashboard, where it shows your hash rate every hour. It fluctuates up and down a little like a real miner. Presumably your payout will be a product of this virtual hash rate times whatever payout rate your chosen pool is said to be paying.

This leads to several interesting (and some might say troubling) questions. And thay all boil down to this:

The Zencloud is a black box.

One thing you have to wonder is how the hash rate and payout rate is determined. We know it's virtual but what is the algorithm that generates them? Will it ever change? (Probably). Will we ever know?

When you say "virtual", I'm assumin you mean (a) it mines actual coins, exchanges them to bitcoin, etc? And we just get a small slice of the massive pool (which stopped at 138742.75 MH/s today for some reason).

Or (b) is it just crunching numbers and paying out but not mining any coins.

To me that's a big difference but when I asked this in another thread some replied that it doesn't matter as long as we get paid  

If it's (a) we should be able to see the hashrate somewhere.

If it's (b) we can stop worrying about any proof  

I'm guessing (a), they are mining coins, but I'm working on slim evidence. If they aren't then I don't know how else they would expect to make income to pay "miners" (or really, investors). At least long term.

How else could (b) be funded?

well this likely is not even possible but could they simply have an algorithm that virtual mines? in other words they get the upfront money from you guys
and then the 'program' simply estimates what could be mined that day with their various pool setups (complex won't get into that) and or alt coins used
in their multipool...then simply 'pay out' in BTC at that point after taking out their 'cut' of course
..buying it at market price or with BTC they 'actually' mined in some other manner also but in their case w/o the overhead
price added on to the HashNet price charged to regular folk?

If they charge the right amount per gh and with the hosting fees...could they pull something like this off? Just act like a filter
to grab btc from so called 'mining' take off their cut and simply 'buy' the coin or use their own miners and 'fluff' the price to the Hashnet
so they come out ahead?.... and pay out that way? one ? both ? not possible ?

I"m way over my head here and re-read the above...the problem with speculating on stuff like the above w/o any skills or idea what it entails well..likely
...heck not even likely..I don't know what I'm talking about here...but for the sake of discussion educate me on how this is probably too complex and matrix like
to work

Searing
 

[Gleb Gamow]

I'm unsure as to why you think I have another account with no basis? I thanked him because I too share his concerns. I am a founding member and have had experiences with GAW ranging from shipment delays and hosting problems all the way to expedited service to make things right.

The difference is how he voiced his concerns. I respect that.

It just seems to me that some members here post nothing but negative reviews while trying to seem unbiased. Make it look like there may be an alterior  motive....

For the consumers sake, let's make an effort to make this an educational thread so that one may make an educated and unbiased decision. Although I am aware that slander is encouraged I mean accepted in this thread..or any thread started by suchmoon it seems

Also, I have reached out and inquired about hashtalk going down and was told that the amount of traffic is overloading the server. I kept trying and was able to eventually get through.

Fact: Every single entity that has used some variant of the clause I have highlighted above on this forum has turned out to be scammers, either no longer here or on their way out.

[MOB]

Going back to the question in the title, "Hashlet - does it really exist?" I agree with others who have already basically said no, in the sense that it's not a physical piece of hardware in a data center that you bought and own. It's an cloud miner that acts like hardware but is really emulated on shared hardware.

One example of "acts like" is in the Zencloud Dashboard, where it shows your hash rate every hour. It fluctuates up and down a little like a real miner. Presumably your payout will be a product of this virtual hash rate times whatever payout rate your chosen pool is said to be paying.

This leads to several interesting (and some might say troubling) questions. And thay all boil down to this:

The Zencloud is a black box.

One thing you have to wonder is how the hash rate and payout rate is determined. We know it's virtual but what is the algorithm that generates them? Will it ever change? (Probably). Will we ever know?

When you say "virtual", I'm assumin you mean (a) it mines actual coins, exchanges them to bitcoin, etc? And we just get a small slice of the massive pool (which stopped at 138742.75 MH/s today for some reason).

Or (b) is it just crunching numbers and paying out but not mining any coins.

To me that's a big difference but when I asked this in another thread some replied that it doesn't matter as long as we get paid  

If it's (a) we should be able to see the hashrate somewhere.

If it's (b) we can stop worrying about any proof  

I'm guessing (a), they are mining coins, but I'm working on slim evidence. If they aren't then I don't know how else they would expect to make income to pay "miners" (or really, investors). At least long term.

How else could (b) be funded?

well this likely is not even possible but could they simply have an algorithm that virtual mines? in other words they get the upfront money from you guys
and then the 'program' simply estimates what could be mined that day with their various pool setups (complex won't get into that) and or alt coins used
in their multipool...then simply 'pay out' in BTC at that point after taking out their 'cut' of course
..buying it at market price or with BTC they 'actually' mined in some other manner also but in their case w/o the overhead
price added on to the HashNet price charged to regular folk?

If they charge the right amount per gh and with the hosting fees...could they pull something like this off? Just act like a filter
to grab btc from so called 'mining' take off their cut and simply 'buy' the coin or use their own miners and 'fluff' the price to the Hashnet
so they come out ahead?.... and pay out that way? one ? both ? not possible ?

I"m way over my head here and re-read the above...the problem with speculating on stuff like the above w/o any skills or idea what it entails well..likely
...heck not even likely..I don't know what I'm talking about here...but for the sake of discussion educate me on how this is probably too complex and matrix like
to work

Searing
 

That is interesting Searing.  It would be like taking a short on mining in general.  If mining is unprofitable, over the medium to long term, then I would think that would work.  The distance each buyer fall short from a full ROI would be the amount of profit GAW would make.

I think that is damn unlikely and complicated, as why bother doing all that when you can just straight up steal, but it is an interesting idea.

That would also only really work in a bear market, so if this market turns around it would collapse pretty fast.

[eightcylinders]

... Or (b) is it just crunching numbers and paying out but not mining any coins.

[snip]

If it's (b) we can stop worrying about any proof 

If its (b), its fraud pure and simple. 

[suchmoon]

well this likely is not even possible but could they simply have an algorithm that virtual mines? in other words they get the upfront money from you guys
and then the 'program' simply estimates what could be mined that day with their various pool setups (complex won't get into that) and or alt coins used
in their multipool...then simply 'pay out' in BTC at that point after taking out their 'cut' of course
..buying it at market price or with BTC they 'actually' mined in some other manner also but in their case w/o the overhead
price added on to the HashNet price charged to regular folk?

If they charge the right amount per gh and with the hosting fees...could they pull something like this off? Just act like a filter
to grab btc from so called 'mining' take off their cut and simply 'buy' the coin or use their own miners and 'fluff' the price to the Hashnet
so they come out ahead?.... and pay out that way? one ? both ? not possible ?

I"m way over my head here and re-read the above...the problem with speculating on stuff like the above w/o any skills or idea what it entails well..likely
...heck not even likely..I don't know what I'm talking about here...but for the sake of discussion educate me on how this is probably too complex and matrix like
to work

Searing
 

It's technically possible and quite easy I think. There's isn't a lot of math involved, especially for hashlets, which have their own pool so can make their own rules. For other pools there is publicly available data to estimate profitability, but ZenCloud estimates and payouts for those other pools is not very realistic anyway.

[suchmoon]

Speaking of math, this is a bit odd:

yesterday -

Edited 2020-11-27 to fix a broken image

today -

Edited 2020-11-27 to fix a broken image

So the hashrate inexplicably dropped by 26 GH/s. Did the hashlets get "unsold" somehow?

But more importantly how did pool payouts stay exactly the same down to the last satoshi?

[suchmoon]

where you see that graph?

https://zenminer.com/pool/ (scroll down)

Now it's up to 132 GH/s and estimates have changed. Somebody's clearly playing around with some buttons.

[verloren]

Speaking of math, this is a bit odd:

yesterday -


today -


So the hashrate inexplicably dropped by 26 GH/s. Did the hashlets get "unsold" somehow?

But more importantly how did pool payouts stay exactly the same down to the last satoshi?

For the hashrate to drop, I'm guessing some miners went down due to a power outage or had connection issues. It has been occurring with one of my miners. Users probably weren't affected because GAW/Zen probably has enough backup hashrate to cover however many Mh of Hashlets sold.

The way their model works (and so do CEX and other cloud companies) is that buying a Hashlet is a contract to receive payouts that a similar hashrate would receive. They divvy out the total payouts from mining on the pool according to how many Mh a user has. Everybody receives the same amount this way.

[fdiini]

Anyone making profit with the plan?

How credible is it on the claim that the plan is incapable of having negative ROI?

[demme]

Speaking of math, this is a bit odd:

yesterday -


today -


So the hashrate inexplicably dropped by 26 GH/s. Did the hashlets get "unsold" somehow?

But more importantly how did pool payouts stay exactly the same down to the last satoshi?

Aint this the hashrate pointed at zenpool? I.e. if I change my 100MHs miner to multipool/clevermining/whatever this rate would decrease by 100mhs

[alienesb]

Looks like your numbers are off:

https://www.zenminer.com/pool/

[dustreveal]

I posted these in another thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=749980

I am a GAW customer as well.
But I have to admit that now I understand more about GAW's "business model", and they are very very dodgy.
They are selling a "service" with no real miner on the back.  They have a tiny "data center" which is just a small basement.

There is a website collecting information about GAW fraud, and I believe all the questions they raised are valid:

 https://flexhash.com/

So GAW is simply gambling with customers money. They are betting on difficulty increasing and LTC price dropping.
Yes, they are still paying out, but I am wondering who manipulated LTC market recently?  With leverage, it doesn't cost a lot of money to make LTC price drop.

If you don't care how GAW use your money, feel free to join them.

But this type of "business" is destroying our crypto currency ecosystem, destroying the whole mining industry and making good profit from miners like us by manipulating the market.

Who want to stay in a world full of scammers?


If you really want to defend GAW, be logical and find hard evidences. It's doesn't mean anything simply claiming you are a customer.  Maybe you are at higher layer of a ponzi scheme, but still, it's a ponzi scheme.  Later customers will be victims.  Do not help those fraudster!

[demme]

Looks like your numbers are off:

https://www.zenminer.com/pool/

Yes, a mining pool usually change in hash rate

[alienesb]

Looks like your numbers are off:

https://www.zenminer.com/pool/

Yes, a mining pool usually change in hash rate

That was in reply to Suchmoon and his image grabs that were off from what I was seeing.

[dustreveal]

In case you are too busy to access that https://flexhash.com/ website, here's some info from there:

So... Is GAW a scam?    You tell me...

A CEO enjoys bluffing:
Spent $8M USD to acquire Zenminer?
But we know Zenminer was an operation of GAW in the first place!
So, that's $8,000,000 from Josh Garza’s left hand to his right hand?

And another $1,100,000 spend on a Domain name?
Can anyone not from GAW confirm this?

Josh must have made a lot of money from his customers by selling miners.
Or, DID HE???     

A "cloud miner" service with no physical miner:

Well, is the title exaggerated? We did some research.

For GAW cloud mining customers, you know what we are talking about.
Have you ever wondered why GAW don't allow us to choose our own worker ID?
How come different pools generate exactly the same return curves?

The logical reason is that those numbers and graphs are all ARTIFICIAL!
There is no real miner behind this operation.

They took our money and told us that we bought miners in the cloud.
Well, maybe it is up in the air.

And we found something interesting...

A "reseller" no longer buy from ASIC manufacturers:

We all knew that GAW started from selling Scrypt Miners not long ago.
With the huge tens of millions per month revenue number Josh publicly claimed,
and now with even more demand for the "cloud mining" service,
GAW must have purchased a lot of hardware miners from scrypt ASIC manufactures,
RIGHT?

We used our connections and talked to all four scrypt ASIC manufactures:
Innosilicon (A2), Gridseed, Zeus & SilverFish.

We found out that GAW has not purchased miners from any of them for some time.
You don't have to believe me, ask those ASIC manufactures.

Other concerns:

Never, never, never use a website that ask for your personal details
and financial information without SSL (https://)

We cannot believe that a "big" company "spent over 1 million USD on a domain name"
doesn't know how to protect their customers at all.
SSL is the most essential thing.
Maybe GAW doesn't care if their customers' ID were stolen.

Dear GAW CEO, Could you please answer the following questions?

Where is the 500MH VaultBreaker now?
Why GAW can not deliver it in real?
Why Hashlet does not have any real specification?
Why the return graph does not make any sense?
How did you support your huge customer base with a tiny mining farm?
What are trying to hide from us?

Magicians from GAW are trying to move our attention away from the truth.

There is no comments yet, but it seems they really don't like GAW.
https://flexhash.com/category/discussion/

[dustreveal]

Why are you spamming this all over the forum? I've seen this in another thread and as far as I know this is not allowed.

So I quoted the same content twice, and it's called spamming, but GAW treated us like fools and that's not a scam?    

Stop talking about irrelevant things, answer the questions if you can.   Prove GAW is not a scam if you really like Josh Garza.

[verloren]

Aint this the hashrate pointed at zenpool? I.e. if I change my 100MHs miner to multipool/clevermining/whatever this rate would decrease by 100mhs

It won't.
The system described by Josh is similar to the example I'm providing below:

Pool #1 has 1Gh worth of Scrypt ASICs pointed at it. 500Mh has been bought by clients. The remaining hashrate is owned by Zen/GAW.

Pool #2 has 2000Mh worth of Scrypt ASICs pointed at it. 1000Mh has been bought by clients. The remaining hashrate is owned by Zen/GAW.


Client A1 owns 100Mh, currently pointed at Pool 1. He/she switches to Pool 2.
Pool 1 still has 1Gh worth of Scrypt ASICs pointed at it. However, only 400Mh has been bought by clients (decreased by 100Mh due to Client A1 moving his allocated share of hashrate).
Pool 2 still has 2Gh worth of Scrypt ASICs pointed at it. 1100Mh has been bought by clients (increased by 100Mh due to Client A1 moving his allocated share of hashrate).

So when someone purchases hashrate from Zen/GAW, they get allocated some from the surplus hashrate already available on the pool. Zen/GAW will not spin up a new miner for them. This is very similar (I won't go as far as to say identical) as the CEX system.

[dustreveal]

Why are you spamming this all over the forum? I've seen this in another thread and as far as I know this is not allowed.

So I quoted the same content twice, and it's called spamming, but GAW treated us like fools and that's not a scam?    

Stop talking about irrelevant things, answer the questions if you can.   Prove GAW is not a scam if you really like Josh Garza.

Nobody has to prove anything to you, don't like it don't buy it.

I did about 2 weeks ago and don't regret it. You're spamming this trying to shove the link to your site down our throats nobody cares.

So you you knew nothing about the scam and even when other people try to pull you out of it, you are still happy to stay in it and defend it. 
How clever!
Josh must be really happy to have you as his loyal customer.

So far, GAW and Josh's friends did not answer any of those questions.  All these guys did was to avoid the questions.

[alienesb]

Why are you spamming this all over the forum? I've seen this in another thread and as far as I know this is not allowed.

So I quoted the same content twice, and it's called spamming, but GAW treated us like fools and that's not a scam?    

Stop talking about irrelevant things, answer the questions if you can.   Prove GAW is not a scam if you really like Josh Garza.

Nobody has to prove anything to you, don't like it don't buy it.

I did about 2 weeks ago and don't regret it. You're spamming this trying to shove the link to your site down our throats nobody cares.

So you you knew nothing about the scam and even when other people try to pull you out of it, you are still happy to stay in it and defend it. 
How clever!
Josh must be really happy to have you as his loyal customer.

So far, GAW and Josh's friends did not answer any of those questions.  All these guys did was to avoid the questions.

Why did you run that cat over with the lawnmower? Why!!! Until you prove you did not do this you are guilty of kitty murder!