GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

[kingscrown]

i got 15mhs of prime today

I just sold 15 primes for $30.47 each. More than a coincidence?

What did you pay?

nah i bought trought gaw website coz i had a gift code for some USD

btw what is the double dip ? is it using 2 pools at same time?

[suchmoon]

i got 15mhs of prime today

I just sold 15 primes for $30.47 each. More than a coincidence?

What did you pay?

nah i bought trought gaw website coz i had a gift code for some USD

btw what is the double dip ? is it using 2 pools at same time?

Yes. Click on the "+" sign, you can do it once every 24 hours, lasts 12 hours.

[rammy2k2]

I just made ROI  with my primes , took a little less than 3 months
I'm happy, profit from now on

PS : bought them at 16$

[coinGeek]

Some additional observations about prime buyback. One hashlet offers me a negative buy back price, I guess that would mean I would have to pay GAW to take it off my hands. No, it hasn't ROIed more than 100% yet, so I don't get where the negative amount comes from.

Another hashlet ("appreciation fury") says "Unable to put miner on sale at this time" with no further explanation. It's not boosted or double dipped. The price it's offering me is suspiciously low too. It looks like it's not excluding maintenance fees but I can't verify that now.

I guess I'm stuck with my primes for now.

Great improvements in quality control as usual.

All my primes were converted original hashlets that I got for mostly $16 plus a few for $20. For me, selling for $30 each seems like a good deal. Including what I earned from them the last two months I about doubled my investment. I DOI'd!

I noticed they priced them in USD but paid in BTC. Bitcoin was at $375 at the time on btc-e and that's exactly the rate they gave me. I'll bet they waited for a rebound in the exchange rate to offer the buyback plan.

[owlcatz]

So.. can anybody withdraw any BTC yet? this deal is getting old to say the least. thanks.

[eightcylinders]

I sold all my primes and withdrew my BTC immediately.  About 10 minutes after I withdrew my BTC, they froze the withdrawals.  Saw that coming!!! Sorry for those of you who are stuck.

[owlcatz]

I sold all my primes and withdrew my BTC immediately.  About 10 minutes after I withdrew my BTC, they froze the withdrawals.  Saw that coming!!! Sorry for those of you who are stuck.

Fck. thanks for the info.. guess i'll be waiting on these retards yet again.

Edit. i tried 10 mins after, so you beat me by 20 mins. F***K!!

[eightcylinders]

I sold all my primes and withdrew my BTC immediately.  About 10 minutes after I withdrew my BTC, they froze the withdrawals.  Saw that coming!!! Sorry for those of you who are stuck.

Fck. thanks for the info.. guess i'll be waiting on these retards yet again.

Edit. i tried 10 mins after, so you beat me by 20 mins. F***K!!

So GAW announced that Primes are discontinued immediately.  He also urged people not to sell because something "big" is coming in a few hours (heard that before, lol).

Of course, Primes are still available at GAW's web site.  I went all the way to checkout with 500 Mh/s in Primes in case anyone out there still believes in GAWd.  I don't so I did not checkout of course.

Sounds to me like they badly need some more BTC so they can unfreeze the withdrawal system.

That is the problem with ponzis.  Constant need for new money creates big problems when early investors cash out.

[MOB]

How much did your primes go for eightcylinders?


wait--so can you really sell your primes for $40 minus what you have earned with no wait and no difficulties? (other than being unable to withdraw BTC ATM =/)

Anyone who bought at $16 now gets a 250% payout?

[eightcylinders]

How much did your primes go for eightcylinders?


wait--so can you really sell your primes for $40 minus what you have earned with no wait and no difficulties? (other than being unable to withdraw BTC ATM =/)

Anyone who bought at $16 now gets a 250% payout?

Yes, I got out completely.  Over 400 mhs sold and cashed out in transferred BTC almost immediately after I saw the announcement. 

I did not pay much attention to how much ROI I did or did not receive and mostly it could not be calculated anyway.

Most of my primes were converted from gridseed units that I bought for much more than $20 per mhs.  I also had a good number of GAW/Zeus miners that I converted.  I bought others for $16 when they were offered originally (on the first day in fact).  I received between $20-29 per mhs but I have zero idea how they calculated my "earnings".  There is not enough info in the account info area to be able to tell what my ROI is without a LOT of work, and some of the miners I converted I paid $40 per mhs for. 

I am sure I ROI'd however I am equally certain I did not get 250% ROI on average.  Probably a pretty decent ROI in any case.  I am more convinced than ever that zencloud is a ponzi though, that is why I am getting out now.  I am equally sure that GAW will throw something attractive out there next.  They will need new infusions of BTC to keep the system going.

I am also 100% certain I would have made more money if GAW had allowed primes to be sold - I had many offers above 26 per mhs before the sales were banned. I think GAW had to shut that down because why would anyone pay $49 when they could get them on the market for $26-30? 

Anyway, this Prime saga is now mostly over for me.  I have been buying up cheap multihash hashlets because I am gambling that GAW will upgrade them (and so far the other hashlets are saleable on the market).

   

[bitgeek]

Yeah, they spent last week on bitcoin conferences with the whole staff, making new deals because they are some kind of scheme. That was boring 3 months ago. Try saying something new once in a while.
Great that people like you are getting out - less whining.

[DARKANGEL6415]

How much did your primes go for eightcylinders?


wait--so can you really sell your primes for $40 minus what you have earned with no wait and no difficulties? (other than being unable to withdraw BTC ATM =/)

Anyone who bought at $16 now gets a 250% payout?

Yes, I got out completely.  Over 400 mhs sold and cashed out in transferred BTC almost immediately after I saw the announcement. 

I did not pay much attention to how much ROI I did or did not receive and mostly it could not be calculated anyway.

Most of my primes were converted from gridseed units that I bought for much more than $20 per mhs.  I also had a good number of GAW/Zeus miners that I converted.  I bought others for $16 when they were offered originally (on the first day in fact).  I received between $20-29 per mhs but I have zero idea how they calculated my "earnings".  There is not enough info in the account info area to be able to tell what my ROI is without a LOT of work, and some of the miners I converted I paid $40 per mhs for. 

I am sure I ROI'd however I am equally certain I did not get 250% ROI on average.  Probably a pretty decent ROI in any case.  I am more convinced than ever that zencloud is a ponzi though, that is why I am getting out now.  I am equally sure that GAW will throw something attractive out there next.  They will need new infusions of BTC to keep the system going.

I am also 100% certain I would have made more money if GAW had allowed primes to be sold - I had many offers above 26 per mhs before the sales were banned. I think GAW had to shut that down because why would anyone pay $49 when they could get them on the market for $26-30? 

Anyway, this Prime saga is now mostly over for me.  I have been buying up cheap multihash hashlets because I am gambling that GAW will upgrade them (and so far the other hashlets are saleable on the market).

   

lol so you glad you got out of the ponzi scheme but you are now buying cheap multi hashlets. did i miss something not being a dick so please noone get pms troll on me nothing worse than a pms troll bitching lol

[ajw7989]

if you sell your primes now you are acting wreckless. Whether you believe in GAW or not the new announcement will ensure these primes are worth top dollar very soon. Selling them prematurely is just plain stupid. If you do not like the direction GAW is going sell them once the marketplace opens and you will be able to get a lot more than 30-40

[bathrobehero]

HashBase is coming this month!
Hashlet Primes paved the way for targeting multiple algorithms, boosting, and the whole concept of dual pool mining.

All of that was a drop in the bucket for what’s to come. It’s all been to set the stage, leading the way for the insane features that are coming. Now that our new hardware is coming in and datacenters are coming online, we’re going to be ready to launch HashBase which will give Prime Hashlets features in the coming weeks that will blow your mind away.

I’m talking features like mining x11 and even more algorithms.
I’m talking features like dramatically reduced maintenance fees.
I’m talking features like the ability to earn money offering Primes as collateral for loans, while still mining with them!
I’m taking features like mining multiple coins… and perhaps even exclusive access to ASIC proof ones!

Called it. At the end of the day they are an ASIC company and with the lack of transparency they preserve I wouldn't be surprised if they were mining other algos for a long time now.

[suchmoon]

So I stepped away for a few hours and EVERYTHING CHANGED^TM while I was napping doing something extremely important.

Ok let's see if I got it right.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/11343/hashbase-approaches

Hashlet is coming to your friendly neighborhood Walmart:

will be available in major stores soon

GAW is now in the banking business (well, expanding it beyond hashpoints):

earn money offering Primes as collateral for loans

... and in the PND business:

working with one of the largest coin development teams

More games coming too:

most powerful HashAmps

We now know where the development resources went the last few weeks:

https://i.imgur.com/GS3xXCO.png

(why is Gava two-faced - no idea).

Full text if you don't trust my insightful analysis:

GAW_CEO
Global Moderator
Industry Innovator

HashBase Approaches

Hey everyone,

Take a seat. Sit back. Relax.

This is an important moment not just for GAW but for every single early adopter we have.

The time has come.

As many of you have seen by now, Hashlet has completely transformed this industry. Forever. Hashlets hit the market when mining was at its worst and turned everything around.

Every early adopter here knows that well and those of you who invested in the beginning have been reaping enormous rewards ever since.

We’re about to do it all over again.

Introducing HashBase
ZenCloud was only the beginning, the first step!

A whole new platform called HashBase will be be absorbing the entire ZenCloud Platform and it will change the world. And only Hashlet Primes will first be able to access.

I can’t say much more right now other than HashBase is the ying to Hashlet’s Yang. It’s our most ambitious R&D initiative next to Hashlet and will be available in major stores soon!

HashBase is coming this month!
Hashlet Primes paved the way for targeting multiple algorithms, boosting, and the whole concept of dual pool mining.

All of that was a drop in the bucket for what’s to come. It’s all been to set the stage, leading the way for the insane features that are coming. Now that our new hardware is coming in and datacenters are coming online, we’re going to be ready to launch HashBase which will give Prime Hashlets features in the coming weeks that will blow your mind away.

I’m talking features like mining x11 and even more algorithms.
I’m talking features like dramatically reduced maintenance fees.
I’m talking features like the ability to earn money offering Primes as collateral for loans, while still mining with them!
I’m taking features like mining multiple coins… and perhaps even exclusive access to ASIC proof ones!

Do you see where I’m going?

Hashlet Primes are going to be the single most powerful miners ever conceived and they will merge into HashBase.

HashBase will be our next update, it will have the most powerful HashAmps we release, designed specifically to skyrocket Hashlet ROIs. And Primes will take advantage of every single one of them, free forever!

Not just that, but Prime Hashlets will have exclusive first access to BTC.com. We are even working with one of the largest coin development teams in the world for exclusive access to mine that coin, only available on HashBase.

Hashlet Primes are officially no longer for sale
That’s right. Our ambitious plans for Primes require that they exist in very limited supply relative to all other Hashlets. That’s why we increased the Price of Primes in the first place. We wanted fewer of them to exist in the wild so that we could keep upping their power.

See, we sell enough Solo and Genesis Hashlets to run and expand this company just fine. That’s why we’re doing something special with Primes. We have the ability to make Primes not just the most powerful miners in the world. We have the ability to make them the most powerful miners possible.

So that’s what we’re going to do.

That’s the whole reason we offered to buy Primes back at $40! We know what they’re going to be worth.

So now that we’ve successfully reduced the number of Primes out there, it’s time turn sales off before the number jumps back up.

So from now on, the only way to acquire Hashlet Primes is though the ZenCloud Market
We need Primes to stay rare enough so that we have virtually unlimited flexibility to keep adding power and features to make them the envy of this industry. That means selling new ones is not an option.

So instead, the Primes that currently exist now will be the only ones that ever exist.

So if you want Primes, you’ll have to buy them from a Prime owner willing to part with theirs. But at this point, though, I’m not sure why they would…..

Just to recap…

We introduced Hashlet as the first stage of Project Prime and Prime Hashlets have been the spearhead along that path. It’s been such an overwhelming success that the enormous buying power Hashlet customers have given us has transformed this company forever. Now chip and board manufacturers play by our rules, not the other way around.

You’ve done so much for this company. It’s time for us to return the favor.

From the bottom of my heart, thank you

Goodnight.

Josh, CEO

PS - We’ve learned a lot in the last few weeks about communication and never leaving customers behind. I realize many of you sold your Primes without this knowledge. And since the market price for Primes will likely double what they used to be, I don’t want anyone feeling shorted.

We care about every customer and we want you to maximize your Hashlet Portfolio. So if you used the buy-back feature and regret doing so, we are going to give you a few hours to “reverse” the sale so you can take part of HashBase

You have until tomorrow morning to do so by pressing a button on your “Miners” page. You will see this button show up in a few hours.

Once the Zencloud Market comes back online, you will not longer be able to get those Primes back. It would not be fair to all the Prime buyers trading on the market for much higher prices to prepare for HashBase.

https://i.imgur.com/GS3xXCO.png

[eightcylinders]

So, to recap.  No specifics.  Lots of promises in coming weeks.  And, surprise, you can "reverse" your decision to sell if you want back in (thus restocking the likely low supply of BTC).  I will pass and keep my newly returned BTC safe in my encrypted wallet, thank you.

Lets take a more critical look at some of the statements in Josh's post and promises for the "next few weeks" to see how they hash out when considered rationally (with my predictions just for the record).  GAW fanboys may want to stop reading now.

1) "Hashlet Primes paved the way for targeting multiple algorithms ..."   Really?  Presumably Josh meant this to be a "to come" feature since it never has existed in Primes or any other hashlet.  Josh also said "like mining X11 and even more algorithms" in the future.   Actually, Gridseed is the only company to date that has released a chip that could target multiple algos AFAIK and as cool as that was (I have 60 of them, I know!) none fo the gridseed dual miners ever ROI'd because targeting multiple algos is a bad idea.  Unless the algos are very close (like moving from scrypt to scrypt-N for N < 3-4), it will only double or quadruple the size and power hungriness of the chip, and increase cost versus a single algo chip.  That is the lesson gridseed learned and it is lesson that applies across any platform.  E.g., it is always going to be more cost-effective to design and build and operate a single algo chip versus a multiple algo one.  And, even with a multiple algo chip, you would need to ROI before the algo becomes saturated with miners - and then keep designing new algo/chips.  This just isn't possible in the ASIC world.   

Now, some poor soul is probably going to rejoinder that hashlets are something new - they aren't asics so they aren't bound by the economics of ASIC manufacturing.  Bollocks.  Underlying the hashlet universe there can only be one of two things: (a) ASICS, or (b) a fraud/ponzi scheme.   There is no unicorn hasher, no santa clause, and no miracles.  If GAW figured out how to perform computations (of any kind) at faster than ASIC speed, they would be revolutionizing general purpose computing, information processing and every other area of life rather than messing around in the backwaters of alt-coins. 

Assuming that GAW is legit and not a ponzi, the only realistic possibility is that multi-algos is a business/virtualized solution, not a technology one.  What I mean is that the only way to achieve what Josh is proposing is buying buying several different ASICs, each designed for a different algo, and then allowing primes to access each of them.  If that is what Josh has in mind, it is not going to work IMHO because it will mean that GAW will need to purchase multiple ASICS for EACH prime customer - and with no new investment since primes are supposedly going off the market!  how will that happen?  Who will fund those new ASICS targeted to multiple algos? 


2) "I’m talking features like dramatically reduced maintenance fees."  Okay, but this was promised for the original primes too.  To date, no reduction.  So now, Josh wants prime owners to wait a little longer so its a new feature?!  I get that massive virtualization and centralization in a data center can reduce costs, but you cannot reduce costs beyond the electricity cost.  And those Gridseed and Zeus machines that GAW was chock full of only a month ago are horribly inefficient.  The only way costs can be further reduced is by purchasing new machines with new more power-efficient asics.  But that requires capital, big capital.  It is very hard for me to believe that the cost of primes - which is $16 for a large number of prime owners - is enough for GAW to fund 2 round of acquisitions of ever more power efficient ASICS (much less the continuous hardware upgrade and replacement that would be required to consistently improve efficiency as promised). 

3) "I’m taking features like mining multiple coins."  Presumably he means merged coin mining, which is already a reality in some pools.  A great idea, and one that ever cloud based system should be doing, but not groundbreaking and not exclusive to GAW.

4) "and perhaps even exclusive access to ASIC proof ones!"  Now we are in Unicorn Hasher territory.  An ASIC proof algo is designed specifically to require resources (mostly memory) that cannot be easily scaled.  While I suppose GAW could set up a bunch of workstations with expensive GPUs in a datacenter, that would not provide the efficiency and scalability that GAW needs to offer to make it profitable. 

All of this points to the need for GAW to bring in even more BTC (or LTC) to support buying more and more ASICS and machines so that it can offer all these cool new features (this, assuming GAW/Zencloud is not merely a ponzi and is actually conducting mining in rough correspondence to the purported mining rates of the hashlets it is selling).  Since it isn't selling Primes anymore (allegedly - see below Predictions), how can GAW bring in the necessary capital (or if a Ponzi, how can it bring in the next round of investors?  interestingly, same problem regardless).

Predictions.  The following is pure speculation.  I will probably get some wrong, but I bet I get the gist of it right.

A) GAW will start to offer a new product through hashbase that will offer many of the features Josh has promised for Primes such as multiple algos and reduced cost.  These new hashlets (or maybe some other name under hashbase) will be more expensive than solos just as in the case of Zen Hashlets.   Just as with Zenhashlets, the new hashlet or hashbase-let will be just as profitable as prime hashlets so people will think they are getting a bargain when they pay $25 or so more mhs.  Prime owners will have the ability to upgrade to the new hashlet for free so that promise will be kept, but only if the prime owner is willing to take a ride on the new hashlet train and convert to the new hashlet schema.

B) The new hashlet (or whatever it is called) will lack one important feature - it will not have a market and private sales (except through resellers of course) will be banned.  GAW will probably justify this by saying that having a market encouraged speculation and whiners like me to take down morale.  Or maybe they will cite concerns about security or fraud.  So no more sales.  This is essential to enable GAW and its resellers to market new hashlets -- otherwise, the "used" hashlet market will set a market price that will be lower than what GAW/resellers sell for.  Resellers (and the moderators who speak for resellers on hashtalk) will love this.  There will be shill accounts (most likely resellers) who will applaud GAW for getting rid of the buggy and problematic market.  Anyone who questions it will be downvoted out of existence on hashtalk.

C) GAW may keep its promise not to create new Prime hashlets, but a large number of prime hashlets will mysteriously become available possibly through resellers or the market.  Since hashlets are virtual anyway, GAW or its resellers could have millions in virtual inventory and still be truthful when saying no new primes will be created.  Now that GAW has cleared out all of the whiners like me who wanted out at a lower price, they may be able to support a higher price in a market for a while and keep selling them directly via the market or indirectly via resellers.

D) GAW will, eventually, shut the whole project down when the SEC and/or FTC get involved and start asking questions.  GAW will blame government regulations for the reason for shutting down, saying that the U.S. is out of touch with the next big thing but that, they have to comply and that means shutting down.  This will only happen when sales of new miners plateau.
B)   

[suchmoon]

C) GAW may keep its promise not to create new Prime hashlets, but a large number of prime hashlets will mysteriously become available possibly through resellers or the market.  Since hashlets are virtual anyway, GAW or its resellers could have millions in virtual inventory and still be truthful when saying no new primes will be created.  Now that GAW has cleared out all of the whiners like me who wanted out at a lower price, they may be able to support a higher price in a market for a while and keep selling them directly via the market or indirectly via resellers.

The "halt" of Prime sales to me sounds like doublespeak for "we wanted to increase the price but that might be unpopular". So if we remove Primes from the official sites and hype them enough to increase the demand to drive up the prices in the marketplace, can we inject new Primes quietly into the marketplace at >$50? I have no idea if that would work, but I'm already seeing bold price predictions on HT, including of course "moderators".

[suchmoon]

Speaking of doublespeak...

Which is it now -

This:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/11330/hashlet-primes-discontinued/265

GAW_CEO
Global Moderator
Industry Innovator

We have ple

@iban321 said:

@Allen1980s said:

@c3rberu5 I just purchased another 25 there. It is still working. :grinning: This last hour will be GAW’s cash machine from Heaven. :wink:

.
Thanks to those of you that are buying.
This should give them enough cash to buy BTC and re-enable withdrawals.

We have plenty :grinning: the issue is a few people figured out an exploit and were take btc out illegally

or this:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/11092/comments-that-we-have-too-many-bugs

GAW_CEO
Global Moderator
Industry Innovator

Comments that we have too many "bugs".....

I just want to say something to those who are making posts sounding like our entire platform is falling apart because some current bugs.

There will ALWAYS be issues with any system. That’s not an excuse, but it is something to consider. No large piece of software is ever perfect. Plus we’re dealing with over 20k new customers now! Try to understand that if even 2% have issues, that’s a ton of customers per day.

Now factor in that we encourage every customer to join HashTalk, so even small issues (that will be fixed soon!) can sound like the sky is falling.

Just count the number of complaints. That number isn’t even half of the “thank you” PMs I get every day.

My point is, we are dealing with large numbers now and we make every effort to let every customer’s voice be heard in HashTalk. And don’t forget, every single HashTalk user (including inactive ones) accounts for less than 25% of our customer base.

Raising issues is fine, but please, before you talk down about our platform as having too many bugs, think about all of this. Our core system (users, wallets, holdings, etc..) is VERY safe and stable, it’s only the ecosystem outside of it that has ever had issues. And remember that we’re doing things no company has ever done before! Of course there will be a few bumps along the way. As long as we keep our core stable, we think a few hiccups are worth giving our customers the very best.

Lets soldier on!

[armedmilitia]

D) GAW will, eventually, shut the whole project down when the SEC and/or FTC get involved and start asking questions.  GAW will blame government regulations for the reason for shutting down, saying that the U.S. is out of touch with the next big thing but that, they have to comply and that means shutting down.  This will only happen when sales of new miners plateau.

Oh, you hit the nail right on the head there. That way everyone on hashtalk can keep drinking the GAW koolaid even well after the ship is sunk and all their money is gone.

[bathrobehero]

Assuming that GAW is legit and not a ponzi, the only realistic possibility is that multi-algos is a business/virtualized solution, not a technology one.  What I mean is that the only way to achieve what Josh is proposing is buying buying several different ASICs, each designed for a different algo, and then allowing primes to access each of them.  If that is what Josh has in mind, it is not going to work IMHO because it will mean that GAW will need to purchase multiple ASICS for EACH prime customer - and with no new investment since primes are supposedly going off the market!  how will that happen?  Who will fund those new ASICS targeted to multiple algos?

What makes you think that primes are real hardware? I think it's pretty obvious those are shares and not connected to any hardware.
GAW does all the mining for themselves and pay you out as if you were mining, based on the performance of your virtual hashlet (prime). It doesn't matter what they are mining.

And who knows if they haven't started getting into ASIC's for other algos (individual, not multi algo ASICs) months ago. Who's to say that some newer algos are not much simpler to develop than it is for scrypt? They don't have competition and they don't need to aim for the skies, just beat CPU/GPU mining with a large enough margin. Not likely, but possible.

The "halt" of Prime sales to me sounds like doublespeak for "we wanted to increase the price but that might be unpopular". So if we remove Primes from the official sites and hype them enough to increase the demand to drive up the prices in the marketplace, can we inject new Primes quietly into the marketplace at >$50? I have no idea if that would work, but I'm already seeing bold price predictions on HT, including of course "moderators".

I doubt they are going to sneak primes in to the market. Obviously they can't just leak a massive amount of them and they do take 10% of every transaction which works better long term.