[ANN][BURST] Burst | Efficient HDD Mining | New 1.2.3 Fork block 92000

[victorteoh]

Guys, i have a question. If I accidentally closed the CMD when it's plotting, can i continue the plots? How would I know where it stopped?

[burstcoin]

Hello forum, apologies for the barrage but I have a few questions regarding multi plot files and multi hdd mining.

1. Multiple Files
Ok so I have my first hdd plotting and mining away without issue (touches all the wood, no homo)

If this my first plot file:
generate <ID> 0 10000000 8191 6

and supposing that it ends dead on 10E6

,will I start the following file as:
generate <ID>  10000000 10000000 8191 6

,or:
generate <ID> 10000001 10000000 8191 6


1.1.

Will the miner continue to the next file by itself or must I restart and where would it restart from should I restart the miner at anytime anyway?


2. Multiple HDDs
When I start plotting on a new hdd, do I start the plot from 0 again.
i.e. generate <ID> 0 10000000 8191 6

,or do I begin from where this first hdd will finish?

Since I read a post a couple of pages back that would suggest the latter, does that mean that the start point is arbitrary and what does that mean for a plot section that has already been mined?


3. From http://burstcoin.info/faq.php

This is question 4 (and 9) on the FAQ and seems to be contradicted by question 16, which states that the best method is by using a mining instance for each drive.

Can I have multiple files in my plots folder?
Yes, you can even create symlinks to other drives, letting you mine with just 1 instance.

Is there any advantage to this over mining from two+ plot files independently?
I suppose what I am asking here really is how much of an impact will dividing CPU and RAM usage between two mining instances affect the mining rate.


Is this as simple as it looks,
i.e.
1 miner runs at 100% of processing power provided.
2 miners run at 50% each of total processing provided over 2 separate plot ranges

,meaning that the efficiency is the same in both cases.


Thank you to anyone who takes the time to provide some answers here.

Ava

1. If you are trying to do sequential, you would do the former, since 10000000 numbers starting with 0 is 0 - 9999999. Like you correctly stated later though, starting point does not matter as long as you don't have ranges that overlap.

The miner rescans the folder for new files every block.

2. Ranges must not overlap, or you will pointlessly doing repeat work.

3. The miner only reads with one thread, so running one / drive will cause it to finish reading sooner. The miner doesn't need much processing power when using plot files, but it can tend to eat ram a bit.

[Irontiga]

Guys, i have a question. If I accidentally closed the CMD when it's plotting, can i continue the plots? How would I know where it stopped?

burstcoin.info/faq.php

[burst1002]

Getting java heap space error while mining and it automatically gets closed every few mins or hours. How to rectify this ?


Uncaught error from thread [default-akka.actor.default-dispatcher-13Uncaught err
or from thread [default-akka.actor.default-dispatcher-11] shutting down JVM sinc
e 'akka.jvm-exit-on-fatal-error' is enabled for ActorSystem[] shutting down JVM
since 'akka.jvm-exit-on-fatal-error' is enabled for ActorSystem[defaultdefault]
]
[ERROR] [09/09/2014 10:08:01.542] [default-akka.actor.default-dispatcher-13] [Ac
torSystem(default)] Uncaught error from thread [default-akka.actor.default-dispa
tcher-13] shutting down JVM since 'akka.jvm-exit-on-fatal-error' is enabled
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
        at pocminer_pool.ScoopReader.readFile(ScoopReader.java:33)
        at pocminer_pool.ScoopReader.onReceive(ScoopReader.java:18)
        at akka.actor.UntypedActor$$anonfun$receive$1.applyOrElse(UntypedActor.s
cala:167)
        at akka.actor.Actor$class.aroundReceive(Actor.scala:465)
        at akka.actor.UntypedActor.aroundReceive(UntypedActor.scala:97)
        at akka.actor.ActorCell.receiveMessage(ActorCell.scala:516)
        at akka.actor.ActorCell.invoke(ActorCell.scala:487)
        at akka.dispatch.Mailbox.processMailbox(Mailbox.scala:238)
        at akka.dispatch.Mailbox.run(Mailbox.scala:220)
        at akka.dispatch.ForkJoinExecutorConfigurator$AkkaForkJoinTask.exec(Abst
ractDispatcher.scala:393)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinTask.doExec(ForkJoinTask.java:260)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinPool$WorkQueue.runTask(ForkJoinPool
.java:1339)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinPool.runWorker(ForkJoinPool.java:19
79)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinWorkerThread.run(ForkJoinWorkerThre
ad.java:107)
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space

        at pocminer_pool.ScoopReader.readFile(ScoopReader.java:33)
        at pocminer_pool.ScoopReader.onReceive(ScoopReader.java:18)
        at akka.actor.UntypedActor$$anonfun$receive$1.applyOrElse(UntypedActor.s
cala:167)[ERROR] [09/09/2014 10:08:01.542] [default-akka.actor.default-dispatche
r-11] [ActorSystem(default)] Uncaught error from thread [default-akka.actor.defa
ult-dispatcher-11] shutting down JVM since 'akka.jvm-exit-on-fatal-error' is ena
bled
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
        at pocminer_pool.ScoopReader.readFile(ScoopReader.java:33)
        at pocminer_pool.ScoopReader.onReceive(ScoopReader.java:18)
        at akka.actor.UntypedActor$$anonfun$receive$1.applyOrElse(UntypedActor.s
cala:167)
        at akka.actor.Actor$class.aroundReceive(Actor.scala:465)
        at akka.actor.UntypedActor.aroundReceive(UntypedActor.scala:97)
        at akka.actor.ActorCell.receiveMessage(ActorCell.scala:516)
        at akka.actor.ActorCell.invoke(ActorCell.scala:487)
        at akka.dispatch.Mailbox.processMailbox(Mailbox.scala:238)
        at akka.dispatch.Mailbox.run(Mailbox.scala:220)
        at akka.dispatch.ForkJoinExecutorConfigurator$AkkaForkJoinTask.exec(Abst
ractDispatcher.scala:393)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinTask.doExec(ForkJoinTask.java:260)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinPool$WorkQueue.runTask(ForkJoinPool
.java:1339)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinPool.runWorker(ForkJoinPool.java:19
79)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinWorkerThread.run(ForkJoinWorkerThre
ad.java:107)


        at akka.actor.Actor$class.aroundReceive(Actor.scala:465)
        at akka.actor.UntypedActor.aroundReceive(UntypedActor.scala:97)
        at akka.actor.ActorCell.receiveMessage(ActorCell.scala:516)
        at akka.actor.ActorCell.invoke(ActorCell.scala:487)
        at akka.dispatch.Mailbox.processMailbox(Mailbox.scala:238)
        at akka.dispatch.Mailbox.run(Mailbox.scala:220)
        at akka.dispatch.ForkJoinExecutorConfigurator$AkkaForkJoinTask.exec(Abst
ractDispatcher.scala:393)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinTask.doExec(ForkJoinTask.java:260)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinPool$WorkQueue.runTask(ForkJoinPool
.java:1339)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinPool.runWorker(ForkJoinPool.java:19
79)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinWorkerThread.run(ForkJoinWorkerThre
ad.java:107)
java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
        at pocminer_pool.ScoopReader.readFile(ScoopReader.java:33)
        at pocminer_pool.ScoopReader.onReceive(ScoopReader.java:18)
        at akka.actor.UntypedActor$$anonfun$receive$1.applyOrElse(UntypedActor.s
cala:167)
        at akka.actor.Actor$class.aroundReceive(Actor.scala:465)
        at akka.actor.UntypedActor.aroundReceive(UntypedActor.scala:97)
        at akka.actor.ActorCell.receiveMessage(ActorCell.scala:516)
        at akka.actor.ActorCell.invoke(ActorCell.scala:487)
        at akka.dispatch.Mailbox.processMailbox(Mailbox.scala:238)
        at akka.dispatch.Mailbox.run(Mailbox.scala:220)
        at akka.dispatch.ForkJoinExecutorConfigurator$AkkaForkJoinTask.exec(Abst
ractDispatcher.scala:393)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinTask.doExec(ForkJoinTask.java:260)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinPool$WorkQueue.runTask(ForkJoinPool
.java:1339)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinPool.runWorker(ForkJoinPool.java:19
79)
        at scala.concurrent.forkjoin.ForkJoinWorkerThread.run(ForkJoinWorkerThre
ad.java:107)

anyone faced the same issue ?

[duncan_idaho]

Yeah with one of my rigs it crashed once a day. I think must be some of hardware errors like RAM or HDD bad sectors.

[Avaahnaa]

Thank you @burstcoin

haha 0-999999 is indeed 10E6 values - Goddamn I have not had enough coffee yet XD

I think I actually mixed myself up with mining and plotting in my 3rd question though I believe that I can use common sense following your help to define my next plotting design.

Ava

[vonuke]

i have i5 cpu,16gb ram and free 2TB HDD now ı'm using this conf. is it true?Why ask u because ı started to mine 24 hours ago and ı find nothing what can ı do?
C:\Windows\System32\java.exe -Xmx4000m -cp pocminer.jar;lib/*;lib/akka/*;lib/jetty/* pocminer.POCMiner generate "ID" 1 8191 400000 12

[Irontiga]

i have i5 cpu,16gb ram and free 2TB HDD now ı'm using this conf. is it true?Why ask u because ı started to mine 24 hours ago and ı find nothing what can ı do?
C:\Windows\System32\java.exe -Xmx4000m -cp pocminer.jar;lib/*;lib/akka/*;lib/jetty/* pocminer.POCMiner generate "ID" 1 8191 400000 12

Reduce the "400000" and increase the "8191" I think you got the order mucked up

[bipben]

Here is the new version. I reduced the amount of memory used from 40KB to about 1KB per unit. The only drawback is that it requires twice the global memory as before. I will search a mean to reduce this overhead later.
In CPU mode, it all goes pretty well (when no graphic card is detected).
The GPU mode is still kind of buggy on my graphic card (an old GeForce 9300M GS), don't know the exact reason yet. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I will try to fix this issue tomorrow.

Here are the files :
gpuPlotGenerator-src-1.1.0.7z : https://mega.co.nz/#!iYFWAL5B!BvtmRQ5qGq4gGwjDglFNtDtNIX4LDaUvATBtClBdTlQ
gpuPlotGenerator-bin-win-x86-1.1.0.7z : https://mega.co.nz/#!aBVGBBQD!tBsRtb8VrHR12_anrFTrl41U0fPQu_OqFnxyi5nCyBY

For the linux users, the Makefile has a new target named "dist" that builds and copy/paste all the necessary files to the "bin" directory.

The executable usage is : ./gpuPlotGenerator <path> <address> <start nonce> <nonces> <stagger size> <threads>
<path> : the path to the plots directory
<threads> : number of parrallel threads for each work group

Tried the Windows version on my Lappy (has a nvidia geforce 335M, 1GB) and I get the following:

Code:

gpuPlotGenerator.exe C:\plots 11111222223333344444 0 5000 500 1

Code:

GPU plot generator v1.1.0
Author: Cryo
Bitcoin: 138gMBhCrNkbaiTCmUhP9HLU9xwn5QKZgD
Burst: BURST-YA29-QCEW-QXC3-BKXDL
--------------
Path: C:\plots
Nonces: 0 to 5000 (1 GB)
Process memory: 125MB
Threads number: 1
--------------
Retrieving OpenCL platform
Retrieving OpenCL GPU device
Creating OpenCL context
Creating OpenCL command queue
Creating CPU buffer
Creating OpenCL GPU generation buffer
Creating OpenCL GPU scoops buffer
Creating OpenCL program
Building OpenCL program
Creating OpenCL kernel
Setting OpenCL kernel arguments
Generating from nonce #0
An OpenCL error occured in the generation process, aborting...
>>> [-5] Error in synchronous read

Each time I run it, the screen goes black for a moment and the comes back. Then I get a popup stating that the Nvidia display driver has stopped responding and has recovered.

I have my desktop with a ATI 7800 already in progress of plotting with dcct's plot generator on Linux. But I will see if I can figure out how to test this on linux on an ATI card.

Edit: Tested it on my Ubuntu install and I get the following when issuing the 'make' command:

Code:

Compiling [gpuPlotGenerator.cpp]
make: /c/_data/cryo/_apps/mingw/bin/g++: Command not found
make: *** [gpuPlotGenerator.o] Error 127

Seems this may be a hard coded location?
I've already installed 'build-essential'... how do I change this so I can actually test it?

Thanks for the test. There is a persistent bug in this implementation, I will work on it today.

For the compilation, yes I forgot to remove the hard coded path to my g++, juste replace the two locations in the Makefile by "g++". Also, replace the harcoded path to the opencl library to your own opencl install path. Sorry for the lack of linux build for now.

[mark.ti]

Is it possible to plot over SMB?

Yes it is possible, but two times slower then direct ploting into local HDD.

[Irontiga]

Hey, any Linuxxy devvy people, can you please check burstcoin.info/miner.php for errors(the Linux pool bit)

[varunsin]

I am having difficulty following the miner tutorial posted in the announcement thread, anyone help me with this?

I'll give a VPS with 2 TB HDD as a compensation for your lost time.

[unsoindovo]

question fo dev team

in the last few days volume and interest on burst coin are falling.

what are the future plans for the development of the coin?
Do you have a project plan?
Can you tell us what you're working on?
Give us some information so those who argue burst, can duffuse information about money and keep interest alive!

thanks so much

[Irontiga]

I am having difficulty following the miner tutorial posted in the announcement thread, anyone help me with this?

I'll give a VPS with 2 TB HDD as a compensation for your lost time.

What's the problem?

[varunsin]

I am having difficulty following the miner tutorial posted in the announcement thread, anyone help me with this?

I'll give a VPS with 2 TB HDD as a compensation for your lost time.

What's the problem?

messaged you, check your PM.
thanks for replying.

[bipben]

Can't get it work and What is reco <threads> for R9 Series Card ?

Hi everyone,

After many hours of setup I finally made it. I have a 1Tb generation in progress and 3x100Gb already finished.
I would like to test the V2 pool but I haven't any BURST for now. Could someone send me 1 BURST to test it please ? Here is my address : BURST-YA29-QCEW-QXC3-BKXDL.

Regarding the plot generation, I found an OpenCL implementation of Shabal (https://github.com/aznboy84/X15GPU/blob/master/kernel/shabal.cl) that could be used to make a GPU version of the generator. I will try to work on it when I have some free time.

Regards

Hi everyone,

As promised I have been working on a GPU plot generator on the last few days. I made a little program built on top of OpenCL, and it seems to work pretty well in CPU mode. Unfortunately, I can't test the GPU mode as it requires a very powerfull graphic card (with at least 46kB private memory per compute unit, because the algorithm needs at least 4096*64 static bytes to store an entire plot).

Here is a preview you can test for now :
gpuPlotGenerator-src-1.0.0.7z : https://mega.co.nz/#!bcF2yKKL!3Ud86GaibgvwBehoxkbO4UNdiBgsaixRx7ksHrgNbDI
gpuPlotGenerator-bin-win-x86-1.0.0.7z : https://mega.co.nz/#!HJsziTCK!UmAMoEHQ3z34R4RsXoIkYo9rYd4LnFtO_pw-R4KObJs

I will build another release in the end of the day with some minor improvements (threads per compute unit selection, output of OpenCL error codes, improvement of the Makefile to generate the distribution directly).
I will also try to figure out another mean to dispatch the work between the GPU threads to reduce the amount of private memory needed by the program.

For the windows people, you can use the binary version directly.
For the linux people, just download the source archive, make sure to modify the OpenCL library and lib path in the makefile (and maybe the executable name), and build the project via "make". To run the program, you need the "kernel" and the "plots" directories beside the executable.

The executable usage is : ./gpuPlotGenerator <address> <start nonce> <nonces> <stagger size>
The parameters are the same as the original plot generator, without the threads number.

If you find bugs or if you want some new features, let me now.

If you want to support me, here are my Bitcoin and Burst addresses :
Bitcoin: 138gMBhCrNkbaiTCmUhP9HLU9xwn5QKZgD
Burst: BURST-YA29-QCEW-QXC3-BKXDL

Regards

Unfortunately, I can't test the GPU mode as it requires a very powerfull graphic card (with at least 46kB private memory per compute unit, because the algorithm needs at least 4096*64 static bytes to store an entire plot).

It's nice to see someone else working on this, since I seem to have failed in it.

Private memory is actually part of global on AMD cards, so storing it in private isn't any better than just using global for everything; it's local that needs to aimed for for the massive speedup. No AMD cards have more than 64KB local per workgroup, which makes storing it all in local impossible however.

I haven't tried your implementation yet, but on my own first attempt, I also used global on everything also, and the result was faster than the java plotter, but slower than dcct's c plotter. My 2nd attempt used a 32KB local buffer I rotated through for storing the currently being hashed stuff, however I couldn't figure out how to get it copied also to global fast enough, and the local -> global copy killed the performance.

You might be interested in those kernels here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=731923.msg8695829#msg8695829

Thanks, I will look at your kernels to see if I can find a better solution.

Here is the new version. I reduced the amount of memory used from 40KB to about 1KB per unit. The only drawback is that it requires twice the global memory as before. I will search a mean to reduce this overhead later.
In CPU mode, it all goes pretty well (when no graphic card is detected).
The GPU mode is still kind of buggy on my graphic card (an old GeForce 9300M GS), don't know the exact reason yet. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I will try to fix this issue tomorrow.

Here are the files :
gpuPlotGenerator-src-1.1.0.7z : https://mega.co.nz/#!iYFWAL5B!BvtmRQ5qGq4gGwjDglFNtDtNIX4LDaUvATBtClBdTlQ
gpuPlotGenerator-bin-win-x86-1.1.0.7z : https://mega.co.nz/#!aBVGBBQD!tBsRtb8VrHR12_anrFTrl41U0fPQu_OqFnxyi5nCyBY

For the linux users, the Makefile has a new target named "dist" that builds and copy/paste all the necessary files to the "bin" directory.

The executable usage is : ./gpuPlotGenerator <path> <address> <start nonce> <nonces> <stagger size> <threads>
<path> : the path to the plots directory
<threads> : number of parrallel threads for each work group

Hi,

I am aware of the current bug and I will work on it today.
For the <threads> parameter, use a multiple of 64, the typical value is 256 for most of the graphic cards.

[duncan_idaho]

Can someone explain how to mine in pool: http://burst-pool.cryptoport.io/

I did everything frome here: http://burst-pool.cryptoport.io/howto.html
I download java pool miner from pool website
Miner is working, no errors

But i dont see any shares from my address in pool statistics.
Any advice ?

[varunsin]

anyone tried mining BURST on cloud yet??

[vonuke]

i have i5 cpu,16gb ram and free 2TB HDD now ı'm using this conf. is it true?Why ask u because ı started to mine 24 hours ago and ı find nothing what can ı do?
C:\Windows\System32\java.exe -Xmx4000m -cp pocminer.jar;lib/*;lib/akka/*;lib/jetty/* pocminer.POCMiner generate "ID" 1 8191 400000 12
Anybody help me what's wrong

[bipben]

Hi everyone,

After many hours of setup I finally made it. I have a 1Tb generation in progress and 3x100Gb already finished.
I would like to test the V2 pool but I haven't any BURST for now. Could someone send me 1 BURST to test it please ? Here is my address : BURST-YA29-QCEW-QXC3-BKXDL.

Regarding the plot generation, I found an OpenCL implementation of Shabal (https://github.com/aznboy84/X15GPU/blob/master/kernel/shabal.cl) that could be used to make a GPU version of the generator. I will try to work on it when I have some free time.

Regards

Hi everyone,

As promised I have been working on a GPU plot generator on the last few days. I made a little program built on top of OpenCL, and it seems to work pretty well in CPU mode. Unfortunately, I can't test the GPU mode as it requires a very powerfull graphic card (with at least 46kB private memory per compute unit, because the algorithm needs at least 4096*64 static bytes to store an entire plot).

Here is a preview you can test for now :
gpuPlotGenerator-src-1.0.0.7z : https://mega.co.nz/#!bcF2yKKL!3Ud86GaibgvwBehoxkbO4UNdiBgsaixRx7ksHrgNbDI
gpuPlotGenerator-bin-win-x86-1.0.0.7z : https://mega.co.nz/#!HJsziTCK!UmAMoEHQ3z34R4RsXoIkYo9rYd4LnFtO_pw-R4KObJs

I will build another release in the end of the day with some minor improvements (threads per compute unit selection, output of OpenCL error codes, improvement of the Makefile to generate the distribution directly).
I will also try to figure out another mean to dispatch the work between the GPU threads to reduce the amount of private memory needed by the program.

For the windows people, you can use the binary version directly.
For the linux people, just download the source archive, make sure to modify the OpenCL library and lib path in the makefile (and maybe the executable name), and build the project via "make". To run the program, you need the "kernel" and the "plots" directories beside the executable.

The executable usage is : ./gpuPlotGenerator <address> <start nonce> <nonces> <stagger size>
The parameters are the same as the original plot generator, without the threads number.

If you find bugs or if you want some new features, let me now.

If you want to support me, here are my Bitcoin and Burst addresses :
Bitcoin: 138gMBhCrNkbaiTCmUhP9HLU9xwn5QKZgD
Burst: BURST-YA29-QCEW-QXC3-BKXDL

Regards

Unfortunately, I can't test the GPU mode as it requires a very powerfull graphic card (with at least 46kB private memory per compute unit, because the algorithm needs at least 4096*64 static bytes to store an entire plot).

It's nice to see someone else working on this, since I seem to have failed in it.

Private memory is actually part of global on AMD cards, so storing it in private isn't any better than just using global for everything; it's local that needs to aimed for for the massive speedup. No AMD cards have more than 64KB local per workgroup, which makes storing it all in local impossible however.

I haven't tried your implementation yet, but on my own first attempt, I also used global on everything also, and the result was faster than the java plotter, but slower than dcct's c plotter. My 2nd attempt used a 32KB local buffer I rotated through for storing the currently being hashed stuff, however I couldn't figure out how to get it copied also to global fast enough, and the local -> global copy killed the performance.

You might be interested in those kernels here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=731923.msg8695829#msg8695829

Thanks, I will look at your kernels to see if I can find a better solution.

Here is the new version. I reduced the amount of memory used from 40KB to about 1KB per unit. The only drawback is that it requires twice the global memory as before. I will search a mean to reduce this overhead later.
In CPU mode, it all goes pretty well (when no graphic card is detected).
The GPU mode is still kind of buggy on my graphic card (an old GeForce 9300M GS), don't know the exact reason yet. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I will try to fix this issue tomorrow.

Here are the files :
gpuPlotGenerator-src-1.1.0.7z : https://mega.co.nz/#!iYFWAL5B!BvtmRQ5qGq4gGwjDglFNtDtNIX4LDaUvATBtClBdTlQ
gpuPlotGenerator-bin-win-x86-1.1.0.7z : https://mega.co.nz/#!aBVGBBQD!tBsRtb8VrHR12_anrFTrl41U0fPQu_OqFnxyi5nCyBY

For the linux users, the Makefile has a new target named "dist" that builds and copy/paste all the necessary files to the "bin" directory.

The executable usage is : ./gpuPlotGenerator <path> <address> <start nonce> <nonces> <stagger size> <threads>
<path> : the path to the plots directory
<threads> : number of parrallel threads for each work group

So the usage would be like this: "D:/gpuPlotGenerator <numerical_account_address> 0  819200 4096 <cpu/gpu_threads?>"

Is that format correct? Is the thread count need for gpu plotting(Point out in bold)? What's the nonce/minute rate?

Hi,

This is still a buggy early stage version. I post it here to have feedback from people who owns more powerfull graphic cards (the behaviour may vary from one card to another).
But yes, the final usage would be the one you mentioned. The threads parameter is the number of threads used in the local work group. In GPU mode, the value should be a multiple a 64, 256 is the typical value for most of the cards.