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Author Topic: [ANN] [XMG] MAGI | CPU mining | mPoW | mPoS | [MagiPay]  (Read 1465614 times)
joelao95
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September 14, 2014, 08:37:07 PM
 #821

[A quick survey]

I've literally manipulated multiplication and division of hashes, which can be repeated any many times as desired. The more repeating, the lower hash rate, which also means less probable of GPU miner as I understand. Only deficiency is the less hash rate making hashing being hard. Let me know if you have any concerns or have something in mind.


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September 14, 2014, 08:39:35 PM
 #822

[A quick survey]

I've literally manipulated multiplication and division of hashes, which can be repeated any many times as desired. The more repeating, the lower hash rate, which also means less probable of GPU miner as I understand. Only deficiency is the less hash rate making hashing being hard. Let me know if you have any concerns or have something in mind.

I would personally suggest to continue the "repeating", to lower the probability of GPU mining being possible. Then, this would be a true "CPU-only" coin Smiley

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September 14, 2014, 08:41:25 PM
 #823

[A quick survey]

I've literally manipulated multiplication and division of hashes, which can be repeated any many times as desired. The more repeating, the lower hash rate, which also means less probable of GPU miner as I understand. Only deficiency is the less hash rate making hashing being hard. Let me know if you have any concerns or have something in mind.

I would personally suggest to continue the "repeating", to lower the probability of GPU mining being possible. Then, this would be a true "CPU-only" coin Smiley

Agreed  Smiley

But don't make it too difficult to mine with cpu

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joelao95
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September 14, 2014, 08:47:40 PM
 #824

[A quick survey]

I've literally manipulated multiplication and division of hashes, which can be repeated any many times as desired. The more repeating, the lower hash rate, which also means less probable of GPU miner as I understand. Only deficiency is the less hash rate making hashing being hard. Let me know if you have any concerns or have something in mind.

I would personally suggest to continue the "repeating", to lower the probability of GPU mining being possible. Then, this would be a true "CPU-only" coin Smiley

My testing in my AMD cpu (8 core)  shows 500 khps hash rate for pure M7; and it was down to half, when I add an extra fortran subroutines; and then repeats of multiplication and division lead to nearly tens of hps depressing per repeat. I feel not very good to keep repeating once we reach very small hash. Ref.: mining the scrypt coin with my AMD gives 10 khps.


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September 14, 2014, 09:00:43 PM
 #825

How long do you think phase 1 PoW will last?

O_o
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September 14, 2014, 09:01:37 PM
 #826

[A quick survey]

I've literally manipulated multiplication and division of hashes, which can be repeated any many times as desired. The more repeating, the lower hash rate, which also means less probable of GPU miner as I understand. Only deficiency is the less hash rate making hashing being hard. Let me know if you have any concerns or have something in mind.

I would personally suggest to continue the "repeating", to lower the probability of GPU mining being possible. Then, this would be a true "CPU-only" coin Smiley

My testing in my AMD cpu (8 core)  shows 500 khps hash rate for pure M7; and it was down to half, when I add an extra fortran subroutines; and then repeats of multiplication and division lead to nearly tens of hps depressing per repeat. I feel not very good to keep repeating once we reach very small hash. Ref.: mining the scrypt coin with my AMD gives 10 khps.
Well, you should (not feel good about that) because this is just plain stupid... You are just making your coin hard to mine (but not especially on gpu...).
but it is your right to listen to moron (who will not mine the coin or with big botnet and big server) basically you are just shutting down the coin to many.

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September 14, 2014, 09:06:55 PM
 #827

How long do you think phase 1 PoW will last?

About 2 month, how do you think


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September 14, 2014, 09:14:02 PM
 #828

[A quick survey]

I've literally manipulated multiplication and division of hashes, which can be repeated any many times as desired. The more repeating, the lower hash rate, which also means less probable of GPU miner as I understand. Only deficiency is the less hash rate making hashing being hard. Let me know if you have any concerns or have something in mind.

I would personally suggest to continue the "repeating", to lower the probability of GPU mining being possible. Then, this would be a true "CPU-only" coin Smiley

My testing in my AMD cpu (8 core)  shows 500 khps hash rate for pure M7; and it was down to half, when I add an extra fortran subroutines; and then repeats of multiplication and division lead to nearly tens of hps depressing per repeat. I feel not very good to keep repeating once we reach very small hash. Ref.: mining the scrypt coin with my AMD gives 10 khps.
Well, you should (not feel good about that) because this is just plain stupid... You are just making your coin hard to mine (but not especially on gpu...).
but it is your right to listen to moron (who will not mine the coin or with big botnet and big server) basically you are just shutting down the coin to many.


This is called a "CPU-only" coin for a reason.

joelao95
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September 14, 2014, 09:14:59 PM
 #829

[A quick survey]

I've literally manipulated multiplication and division of hashes, which can be repeated any many times as desired. The more repeating, the lower hash rate, which also means less probable of GPU miner as I understand. Only deficiency is the less hash rate making hashing being hard. Let me know if you have any concerns or have something in mind.

I would personally suggest to continue the "repeating", to lower the probability of GPU mining being possible. Then, this would be a true "CPU-only" coin Smiley

My testing in my AMD cpu (8 core)  shows 500 khps hash rate for pure M7; and it was down to half, when I add an extra fortran subroutines; and then repeats of multiplication and division lead to nearly tens of hps depressing per repeat. I feel not very good to keep repeating once we reach very small hash. Ref.: mining the scrypt coin with my AMD gives 10 khps.
Well, you should (not feel good about that) because this is just plain stupid... You are just making your coin hard to mine (but not especially on gpu...).
but it is your right to listen to moron (who will not mine the coin or with big botnet and big server) basically you are just shutting down the coin to many.


djm, check out the algo here,

https://github.com/magi-project/magi-minerd/blob/master/hashblock.h

and make your comments: how that is going to happen on gpu. If you also wish to see a real cpu coin (most likely), please be suggestive (I accept accusation if that is valid). I open to any suggestions.

Edit, hash repeat is what we've seen in x11 etc chain algo, not much special here. There is purpose behind the repeating you read through the lines carefully.


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September 14, 2014, 09:23:38 PM
 #830

Windows miner not out yet ?
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September 14, 2014, 09:38:50 PM
 #831

Not worried about the delay but please update the OP with when. Remember you are talking to multiple time zones, best to get your counter working again.

Good luck!!
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September 14, 2014, 09:45:57 PM
 #832

Not worried about the delay but please update the OP with when. Remember you are talking to multiple time zones, best to get your counter working again.

Good luck!!

Noted Smiley


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paulthetafy
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September 14, 2014, 09:47:07 PM
 #833

[A quick survey]

I've literally manipulated multiplication and division of hashes, which can be repeated any many times as desired. The more repeating, the lower hash rate, which also means less probable of GPU miner as I understand. Only deficiency is the less hash rate making hashing being hard. Let me know if you have any concerns or have something in mind.

I would personally suggest to continue the "repeating", to lower the probability of GPU mining being possible. Then, this would be a true "CPU-only" coin Smiley

My testing in my AMD cpu (8 core)  shows 500 khps hash rate for pure M7; and it was down to half, when I add an extra fortran subroutines; and then repeats of multiplication and division lead to nearly tens of hps depressing per repeat. I feel not very good to keep repeating once we reach very small hash. Ref.: mining the scrypt coin with my AMD gives 10 khps.
Well, you should (not feel good about that) because this is just plain stupid... You are just making your coin hard to mine (but not especially on gpu...).
but it is your right to listen to moron (who will not mine the coin or with big botnet and big server) basically you are just shutting down the coin to many.

"Hard to mine" is relative to difficulty, so you will get the same mining reward regardless of how low your hashing speed is, as everyone has to do the same work, so difficulty will just be lower.  So stop throwing accusations of stupidity when clearly you don't understand how mining works at all.

Of course this is also true of gpu miners. Joe, can you confirm that repeating the functions is making it DISPROPORTIONATELY harder for gpu over CPU? If so, then your target should be as many repetitions to ensure that an average gpu will always be slower than an average CPU. Thus you're not guaranteeing that this would be CPU only, but you would have ensured that mining with gpu would not adventagous. If it is not going to be disproportionately harder for gpu with every repetition, then it's pointless repeating it Smiley

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September 14, 2014, 09:51:11 PM
 #834

Not worried about the delay but please update the OP with when. Remember you are talking to multiple time zones, best to get your counter working again.

Good luck!!
+1
I'm in sydney and have had two unnecessary late nights so far. I realise you've had issues, and have no problem with your decision to delay, but please make sure you're ready for the next launch time. Smiley Hope your launch time isn't as late next time, I draw the line at midnight here on a work night Smiley

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September 14, 2014, 09:52:24 PM
 #835

Holy cow, the level of immaturity and impatience here makes one wonder the age of people in this thread!

Dev.......do your thing and launch this puppy when you feel all is correct, I don't understand why people want to rush this.....they are just begging for problems!
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September 14, 2014, 11:40:42 PM
 #836

[A quick survey]

I've literally manipulated multiplication and division of hashes, which can be repeated any many times as desired. The more repeating, the lower hash rate, which also means less probable of GPU miner as I understand. Only deficiency is the less hash rate making hashing being hard. Let me know if you have any concerns or have something in mind.

I would personally suggest to continue the "repeating", to lower the probability of GPU mining being possible. Then, this would be a true "CPU-only" coin Smiley

My testing in my AMD cpu (8 core)  shows 500 khps hash rate for pure M7; and it was down to half, when I add an extra fortran subroutines; and then repeats of multiplication and division lead to nearly tens of hps depressing per repeat. I feel not very good to keep repeating once we reach very small hash. Ref.: mining the scrypt coin with my AMD gives 10 khps.
Well, you should (not feel good about that) because this is just plain stupid... You are just making your coin hard to mine (but not especially on gpu...).
but it is your right to listen to moron (who will not mine the coin or with big botnet and big server) basically you are just shutting down the coin to many.

"Hard to mine" is relative to difficulty, so you will get the same mining reward regardless of how low your hashing speed is, as everyone has to do the same work, so difficulty will just be lower.  So stop throwing accusations of stupidity when clearly you don't understand how mining works at all.

Of course this is also true of gpu miners. Joe, can you confirm that repeating the functions is making it DISPROPORTIONATELY harder for gpu over CPU? If so, then your target should be as many repetitions to ensure that an average gpu will always be slower than an average CPU. Thus you're not guaranteeing that this would be CPU only, but you would have ensured that mining with gpu would not adventagous. If it is not going to be disproportionately harder for gpu with every repetition, then it's pointless repeating it Smiley


It is very clear to me, that dev doesn't have a gpu miner to compare with... so all this is just guessing (based on an idea, m7, which has been already proven wrong in the first place).
So let add more divisions, more steps is (sorry to reiterate) just stupid because no comparison has been done.
So for the moment he is just decreasing cpu hashrate expecting gpu will decrease faster... (may-be you just learn a little bit more about gpu yourself)

Blind faith in action is nice to watch but it hurts any normal brains at the same time...
and some point, just stick with what have rather than changing every hours...


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September 14, 2014, 11:59:10 PM
 #837

[A quick survey]

I've literally manipulated multiplication and division of hashes, which can be repeated any many times as desired. The more repeating, the lower hash rate, which also means less probable of GPU miner as I understand. Only deficiency is the less hash rate making hashing being hard. Let me know if you have any concerns or have something in mind.

I would personally suggest to continue the "repeating", to lower the probability of GPU mining being possible. Then, this would be a true "CPU-only" coin Smiley

My testing in my AMD cpu (8 core)  shows 500 khps hash rate for pure M7; and it was down to half, when I add an extra fortran subroutines; and then repeats of multiplication and division lead to nearly tens of hps depressing per repeat. I feel not very good to keep repeating once we reach very small hash. Ref.: mining the scrypt coin with my AMD gives 10 khps.
Well, you should (not feel good about that) because this is just plain stupid... You are just making your coin hard to mine (but not especially on gpu...).
but it is your right to listen to moron (who will not mine the coin or with big botnet and big server) basically you are just shutting down the coin to many.

"Hard to mine" is relative to difficulty, so you will get the same mining reward regardless of how low your hashing speed is, as everyone has to do the same work, so difficulty will just be lower.  So stop throwing accusations of stupidity when clearly you don't understand how mining works at all.

Of course this is also true of gpu miners. Joe, can you confirm that repeating the functions is making it DISPROPORTIONATELY harder for gpu over CPU? If so, then your target should be as many repetitions to ensure that an average gpu will always be slower than an average CPU. Thus you're not guaranteeing that this would be CPU only, but you would have ensured that mining with gpu would not adventagous. If it is not going to be disproportionately harder for gpu with every repetition, then it's pointless repeating it Smiley


It is very clear to me, that dev doesn't have a gpu miner to compare with... so all this is just guessing (based on an idea, m7, which has been already proven wrong in the first place).
So let add more divisions, more steps is (sorry to reiterate) just stupid because no comparison has been done.
So for the moment he is just decreasing cpu hashrate expecting gpu will decrease faster... (may-be you just learn a little bit more about gpu yourself)

Blind faith in action is nice to watch but it hurts any normal brains at the same time...
and some point, just stick with what have rather than changing every hours...

Ok agreed.  As I alluded to in my previous post, the dev needs to confirm that repeating is making it disproportionately harder/slower for GPU's otherwise yes, I agree, this is just guesswork and not achieving anything positive.

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September 15, 2014, 01:01:04 AM
 #838

[A quick survey]

I've literally manipulated multiplication and division of hashes, which can be repeated any many times as desired. The more repeating, the lower hash rate, which also means less probable of GPU miner as I understand. Only deficiency is the less hash rate making hashing being hard. Let me know if you have any concerns or have something in mind.

I would personally suggest to continue the "repeating", to lower the probability of GPU mining being possible. Then, this would be a true "CPU-only" coin Smiley

My testing in my AMD cpu (8 core)  shows 500 khps hash rate for pure M7; and it was down to half, when I add an extra fortran subroutines; and then repeats of multiplication and division lead to nearly tens of hps depressing per repeat. I feel not very good to keep repeating once we reach very small hash. Ref.: mining the scrypt coin with my AMD gives 10 khps.
Well, you should (not feel good about that) because this is just plain stupid... You are just making your coin hard to mine (but not especially on gpu...).
but it is your right to listen to moron (who will not mine the coin or with big botnet and big server) basically you are just shutting down the coin to many.

"Hard to mine" is relative to difficulty, so you will get the same mining reward regardless of how low your hashing speed is, as everyone has to do the same work, so difficulty will just be lower.  So stop throwing accusations of stupidity when clearly you don't understand how mining works at all.

Of course this is also true of gpu miners. Joe, can you confirm that repeating the functions is making it DISPROPORTIONATELY harder for gpu over CPU? If so, then your target should be as many repetitions to ensure that an average gpu will always be slower than an average CPU. Thus you're not guaranteeing that this would be CPU only, but you would have ensured that mining with gpu would not adventagous. If it is not going to be disproportionately harder for gpu with every repetition, then it's pointless repeating it Smiley


It is very clear to me, that dev doesn't have a gpu miner to compare with... so all this is just guessing (based on an idea, m7, which has been already proven wrong in the first place).
So let add more divisions, more steps is (sorry to reiterate) just stupid because no comparison has been done.
So for the moment he is just decreasing cpu hashrate expecting gpu will decrease faster... (may-be you just learn a little bit more about gpu yourself)

Blind faith in action is nice to watch but it hurts any normal brains at the same time...
and some point, just stick with what have rather than changing every hours...



Hi djm, would you please take a look at the algo and then write your comments?! Please just don't attack a simple thought, sometimes simple thoughts could lead to something. I am unaware of any significant algo, please tell me which is a good one you have in mind since you don't believe in M7. I cannot compare with gpu, because no idea how to implement gpu in this case, that's why I ask you to take a look since you are more experienced than me in this regard. Simply let's see what's happening after launch, rather than wording game. If someone likes to implement gpu, let's see how he is doing.

p.s., the algo is just a portion of this coin project, not whole; no significant points being forged here, let's just move on.


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September 15, 2014, 01:22:54 AM
 #839

cryptonote is very similar. infinium8 coin uses it.

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September 15, 2014, 01:24:39 AM
 #840

[A quick survey]

I've literally manipulated multiplication and division of hashes, which can be repeated any many times as desired. The more repeating, the lower hash rate, which also means less probable of GPU miner as I understand. Only deficiency is the less hash rate making hashing being hard. Let me know if you have any concerns or have something in mind.

I would personally suggest to continue the "repeating", to lower the probability of GPU mining being possible. Then, this would be a true "CPU-only" coin Smiley

My testing in my AMD cpu (8 core)  shows 500 khps hash rate for pure M7; and it was down to half, when I add an extra fortran subroutines; and then repeats of multiplication and division lead to nearly tens of hps depressing per repeat. I feel not very good to keep repeating once we reach very small hash. Ref.: mining the scrypt coin with my AMD gives 10 khps.
Well, you should (not feel good about that) because this is just plain stupid... You are just making your coin hard to mine (but not especially on gpu...).
but it is your right to listen to moron (who will not mine the coin or with big botnet and big server) basically you are just shutting down the coin to many.

"Hard to mine" is relative to difficulty, so you will get the same mining reward regardless of how low your hashing speed is, as everyone has to do the same work, so difficulty will just be lower.  So stop throwing accusations of stupidity when clearly you don't understand how mining works at all.

Of course this is also true of gpu miners. Joe, can you confirm that repeating the functions is making it DISPROPORTIONATELY harder for gpu over CPU? If so, then your target should be as many repetitions to ensure that an average gpu will always be slower than an average CPU. Thus you're not guaranteeing that this would be CPU only, but you would have ensured that mining with gpu would not adventagous. If it is not going to be disproportionately harder for gpu with every repetition, then it's pointless repeating it Smiley


Thanks for the inputs, paulthetafy. I respond to the repeating comment (also probably major question of djm). The idea began after my few tries on the gpu miner and communication with catia. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=735170.msg8716805#msg8716805 catia commented the difficulty of gpu implementation with multiple multiplications of hash functions, and further, implementing division is very bad on gpu.

Initially I wrote the code with floating-point numbers; achieving certain accuracy of calculation with floating-point numbers is really impossible on gpu. While noticing the reliability issue with mpf_t, I turned to integers, while this is inferior to what I want initially, this way gives more reliable results. Then my immediate thinking is to do the repetition to further block gpu. Though a gpu badly handles division, it can move the task out and let cpu do it; with repetitions, apparently a chunk of data must be transferred back and forth which won't be efficient. That's basically my thinking. Without more profound knowledge on gpu, this would appear to be my 'guess'. In addition, I do take my knowledge in science computation which is the fortran part. This is not computationally hard but do increse the hardness of implementing gpu.


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