Scientific proof that God exists?

[jackjack]

It appears from Ezekiel 28...

Hmm.
Not sure I give any credit to the book you're talking about.

[Buffer Overflow]

It appears from Ezekiel 28...

Hmm.
Not sure I give any credit to the book you're talking about.

Wow, never seen that one before.

[androz]

i haven't read all thread, but i have an easy question: why a perfect entity had the urge to create men?

honestly i have a bunch of simple questions since my childhood that never got a satisfing answers; maybe someone here could shake my opinions ...

Several simple answers.

1. God wants companionship. He is great beyond understanding. He wants companionship that will match His greatness. That's why He made angels and people. The fact that there are different kinds of angels suggests that there might be a tremendously large number of different kinds of angels. We all have been created for His companionship.

imaho there is a central flaw in the relation between god's omnipotence/greatness and the need of companionship.

assuming that an entity is perfect, that entity will be free of all needs. The need of companionship imply that he is not perfect particularly if it is a tremendous big need (he created tremendously large number of different entities).

Moreover those entities will not match His greatness because are all inferior, this could imply that He need to boss them (worst need than the first).

furthermore, if we assume that he is good and forgiving, how he could inflict eternal damnation to his creatures when they misbehave (according to His law) ? inflicting eternal sufferings and being good does not match

[BADecker]

DISEASES THAT WE ARE BRINGING ON OURSELVES BY NOT FOLLOWING GOD, OR BY TOTALLY DENYING HIM.

The dark days of attracting more followers by the scaremongering methods are growing short.
You'll have to find another angle.

Definitely. Be afraid! Be afraid just like you might be afraid of grabbing a knife and stabbing yourself in the stomach. If you don't have enough sense to be afraid, no wonder you have troubling results.

[jackjack]

DISEASES THAT WE ARE BRINGING ON OURSELVES BY NOT FOLLOWING GOD, OR BY TOTALLY DENYING HIM.

The dark days of attracting more followers by the scaremongering methods are growing short.
You'll have to find another angle.

Definitely. Be afraid! Be afraid just like you might be afraid of grabbing a knife and stabbing yourself in the stomach. If you don't have enough sense to be afraid, no wonder you have troubling results.

Yeah
Lol

[Buffer Overflow]

DISEASES THAT WE ARE BRINGING ON OURSELVES BY NOT FOLLOWING GOD, OR BY TOTALLY DENYING HIM.

The dark days of attracting more followers by the scaremongering methods are growing short.
You'll have to find another angle.

Definitely. Be afraid! Be afraid just like you might be afraid of grabbing a knife and stabbing yourself in the stomach. If you don't have enough sense to be afraid, no wonder you have troubling results.

Wow, just wow!!!!

[BADecker]

i haven't read all thread, but i have an easy question: why a perfect entity had the urge to create men?

honestly i have a bunch of simple questions since my childhood that never got a satisfing answers; maybe someone here could shake my opinions ...

Several simple answers.

1. God wants companionship. He is great beyond understanding. He wants companionship that will match His greatness. That's why He made angels and people. The fact that there are different kinds of angels suggests that there might be a tremendously large number of different kinds of angels. We all have been created for His companionship.

imaho there is a central flaw in the relation between god's omnipotence/greatness and the need of companionship.

assuming that an entity is perfect, that entity will be free of all needs. The need of companionship imply that he is not perfect particularly if it is a tremendous big need (he created tremendously large number of different entities).

Moreover those entities will not match His greatness because are all inferior, this could imply that He need to boss them (worst need than the first).

furthermore, if we assume that he is good and forgiving, how he could inflict eternal damnation to his creatures when they misbehave (according to His law) ? inflicting eternal sufferings and being good does not match

I don't know that God needs companionship. That isn't something that I said. If I said it, I didn't mean it that way.

Probably the closest to God having need is like this. God is unimaginably Great and Wonderful. He is simply Fabulous, and in part, Fabulous beyond mans' understanding.

When God envisioned man, He saw how great and wonderful it would be for man to stand in awe of something so Great and Fabulous as God. And, having loved man before He even made us, He wanted to give us the best, and that "best" included making us so that we could recognize how Great and Wonderful He is.

Something like this might sound like conceit. But is it conceit if it is the absolute truth? Since it is the truth, it is complete humility on the part of God.

So you see? God's "need" to have companionship doesn't really have to do with Him having to have people around Him. Rather, it has to do with His desire for the good of all people.

[BADecker]

DISEASES THAT WE ARE BRINGING ON OURSELVES BY NOT FOLLOWING GOD, OR BY TOTALLY DENYING HIM.

The dark days of attracting more followers by the scaremongering methods are growing short.
You'll have to find another angle.

Definitely. Be afraid! Be afraid just like you might be afraid of grabbing a knife and stabbing yourself in the stomach. If you don't have enough sense to be afraid, no wonder you have troubling results.

Wow, just wow!!!!

Good, you are starting to wake up.

A person has dreams for his life. But if the dreams aren't practical, they often fall through, and the person suffers loss.

Out of fear of suffering loss a second time, the person goes into training to find out how to accomplish his dreams in ways that will work.

Same thing happens when dealing with God. And like a person gets too old after awhile, to continue to follow his dreams, even so God has a limit to as far as He will put up with peoples' turning away from Him.

[Buffer Overflow]

DISEASES THAT WE ARE BRINGING ON OURSELVES BY NOT FOLLOWING GOD, OR BY TOTALLY DENYING HIM.

The dark days of attracting more followers by the scaremongering methods are growing short.
You'll have to find another angle.

Definitely. Be afraid! Be afraid just like you might be afraid of grabbing a knife and stabbing yourself in the stomach. If you don't have enough sense to be afraid, no wonder you have troubling results.

Wow, just wow!!!!

Good, you are starting to wake up.

My eyes are wide open.

[BADecker]

DISEASES THAT WE ARE BRINGING ON OURSELVES BY NOT FOLLOWING GOD, OR BY TOTALLY DENYING HIM.

The dark days of attracting more followers by the scaremongering methods are growing short.
You'll have to find another angle.

Definitely. Be afraid! Be afraid just like you might be afraid of grabbing a knife and stabbing yourself in the stomach. If you don't have enough sense to be afraid, no wonder you have troubling results.

Wow, just wow!!!!

Good, you are starting to wake up.

My eyes are wide open.

If you had said your eyes were set that you couldn't see, you might have an excuse. But now that you say (essentially) that you understand, you are taking responsibility for yourself before God. Better be the right response.

[Buffer Overflow]

DISEASES THAT WE ARE BRINGING ON OURSELVES BY NOT FOLLOWING GOD, OR BY TOTALLY DENYING HIM.

The dark days of attracting more followers by the scaremongering methods are growing short.
You'll have to find another angle.

Definitely. Be afraid! Be afraid just like you might be afraid of grabbing a knife and stabbing yourself in the stomach. If you don't have enough sense to be afraid, no wonder you have troubling results.

Wow, just wow!!!!

Good, you are starting to wake up.

My eyes are wide open.

If you had said your eyes were set that you couldn't see, you might have an excuse. But now that you say (essentially) that you understand, you are taking responsibility for yourself before God. Better be the right response.

Excuse? I've done nothing wrong.

You back to that old fear mongering again? When will the penny drop?

[Lauda]

If you had said your eyes were set that you couldn't see, you might have an excuse. But now that you say (essentially) that you understand, you are taking responsibility for yourself before God. Better be the right response.

Excuse? I've done nothing wrong.

You back to that old fear mongering again? When will the penny drop?

Wait a minute, he did not state whose God?
If it is mine, Buffer everything you every did is forgiven. Why? Because my God doesn't have 'abstract' rules of what's right and what is not.

[BADecker]

DISEASES THAT WE ARE BRINGING ON OURSELVES BY NOT FOLLOWING GOD, OR BY TOTALLY DENYING HIM.

The dark days of attracting more followers by the scaremongering methods are growing short.
You'll have to find another angle.

Definitely. Be afraid! Be afraid just like you might be afraid of grabbing a knife and stabbing yourself in the stomach. If you don't have enough sense to be afraid, no wonder you have troubling results.

Wow, just wow!!!!

Good, you are starting to wake up.

My eyes are wide open.

If you had said your eyes were set that you couldn't see, you might have an excuse. But now that you say (essentially) that you understand, you are taking responsibility for yourself before God. Better be the right response.

Excuse? I've done nothing wrong.

You back to that old fear mongering again? When will the penny drop?

Whew! I was worried for a second. So you have nothing to fear, then.  

[BADecker]

If you had said your eyes were set that you couldn't see, you might have an excuse. But now that you say (essentially) that you understand, you are taking responsibility for yourself before God. Better be the right response.

Excuse? I've done nothing wrong.

You back to that old fear mongering again? When will the penny drop?

Wait a minute, he did not state whose God?
If it is mine, Buffer everything you every did is forgiven. Why? Because my God doesn't have 'abstract' rules of what's right and what is not.

Well, we are talking about the BIG God. You know, the God Who made nature. There are rules of nature that He set in place that if you don't follow them, you hurt yourself, or even die.

[Buffer Overflow]

If you had said your eyes were set that you couldn't see, you might have an excuse. But now that you say (essentially) that you understand, you are taking responsibility for yourself before God. Better be the right response.

Excuse? I've done nothing wrong.

You back to that old fear mongering again? When will the penny drop?

Wait a minute, he did not state whose God?
If it is mine, Buffer everything you every did is forgiven. Why? Because my God doesn't have 'abstract' rules of what's right and what is not.

Well that's true. I'd prefer your God with the clear rules.
With the lesser 'abstract' one, followers can just make up the rules as they see fit. Consulting the bible won't guide them because of all the endless contradictions as confirmed earlier. In fact that's more likely to misguide them if anything!


I'm starting to get bored of this thread now. I think it's reached the end of it's useful life. (If it ever had one.)

[BADecker]

If you had said your eyes were set that you couldn't see, you might have an excuse. But now that you say (essentially) that you understand, you are taking responsibility for yourself before God. Better be the right response.

Excuse? I've done nothing wrong.

You back to that old fear mongering again? When will the penny drop?

Wait a minute, he did not state whose God?
If it is mine, Buffer everything you every did is forgiven. Why? Because my God doesn't have 'abstract' rules of what's right and what is not.

Well that's true. I'd prefer your God with the clear rules.
With the lesser 'abstract' one, followers can just make up the rules as they see fit. Consulting the bible won't guide them because of all the endless contradictions as confirmed earlier. In fact that's more likely to misguide them if anything!


I'm starting to get bored of this thread now. I think it's reached the end of it's useful life. (If it ever had one.)

However, even with the abstract one, there are limits to the rules. For example, even if it is in the rules that a person can simply stand out in his driveway and jump to the moon, he still won't be able to do it. So, essentially, man-made rules are limitations on man.

[jackjack]

If you had said your eyes were set that you couldn't see, you might have an excuse. But now that you say (essentially) that you understand, you are taking responsibility for yourself before God. Better be the right response.

Excuse? I've done nothing wrong.

You back to that old fear mongering again? When will the penny drop?

Wait a minute, he did not state whose God?
If it is mine, Buffer everything you every did is forgiven. Why? Because my God doesn't have 'abstract' rules of what's right and what is not.

Well, we are talking about the BIG God. You know, the God Who made nature. There are rules of nature that He set in place that if you don't follow them, you hurt yourself, or even die.

The BIG Him

[androz]

i haven't read all thread, but i have an easy question: why a perfect entity had the urge to create men?

honestly i have a bunch of simple questions since my childhood that never got a satisfing answers; maybe someone here could shake my opinions ...

Several simple answers.

1. God wants companionship. He is great beyond understanding. He wants companionship that will match His greatness. That's why He made angels and people. The fact that there are different kinds of angels suggests that there might be a tremendously large number of different kinds of angels. We all have been created for His companionship.

imaho there is a central flaw in the relation between god's omnipotence/greatness and the need of companionship.

assuming that an entity is perfect, that entity will be free of all needs. The need of companionship imply that he is not perfect particularly if it is a tremendous big need (he created tremendously large number of different entities).

Moreover those entities will not match His greatness because are all inferior, this could imply that He need to boss them (worst need than the first).

furthermore, if we assume that he is good and forgiving, how he could inflict eternal damnation to his creatures when they misbehave (according to His law) ? inflicting eternal sufferings and being good does not match

I don't know that God needs companionship. That isn't something that I said. If I said it, I didn't mean it that way.

Probably the closest to God having need is like this. God is unimaginably Great and Wonderful. He is simply Fabulous, and in part, Fabulous beyond mans' understanding.

When God envisioned man, He saw how great and wonderful it would be for man to stand in awe of something so Great and Fabulous as God. And, having loved man before He even made us, He wanted to give us the best, and that "best" included making us so that we could recognize how Great and Wonderful He is.

Something like this might sound like conceit. But is it conceit if it is the absolute truth? Since it is the truth, it is complete humility on the part of God.

So you see? God's "need" to have companionship doesn't really have to do with Him having to have people around Him. Rather, it has to do with His desire for the good of all people.

mmm, more questions popping up in my mind ...

it's a bit puzzling. for example, that his desire for the good of people imply the men's suffering.

how many innocent men suffer and die every day without reason?

even if someone reply "because of original sin", make suffer all the progeny of adam for his disobedience is too much even for the most vengeful man.



however i have a deep respect for strong faith, and i don't want bother you too much 


for the sake of curiosity, which religion you belong?

[BADecker]

i haven't read all thread, but i have an easy question: why a perfect entity had the urge to create men?

honestly i have a bunch of simple questions since my childhood that never got a satisfing answers; maybe someone here could shake my opinions ...

Several simple answers.

1. God wants companionship. He is great beyond understanding. He wants companionship that will match His greatness. That's why He made angels and people. The fact that there are different kinds of angels suggests that there might be a tremendously large number of different kinds of angels. We all have been created for His companionship.

imaho there is a central flaw in the relation between god's omnipotence/greatness and the need of companionship.

assuming that an entity is perfect, that entity will be free of all needs. The need of companionship imply that he is not perfect particularly if it is a tremendous big need (he created tremendously large number of different entities).

Moreover those entities will not match His greatness because are all inferior, this could imply that He need to boss them (worst need than the first).

furthermore, if we assume that he is good and forgiving, how he could inflict eternal damnation to his creatures when they misbehave (according to His law) ? inflicting eternal sufferings and being good does not match

I don't know that God needs companionship. That isn't something that I said. If I said it, I didn't mean it that way.

Probably the closest to God having need is like this. God is unimaginably Great and Wonderful. He is simply Fabulous, and in part, Fabulous beyond mans' understanding.

When God envisioned man, He saw how great and wonderful it would be for man to stand in awe of something so Great and Fabulous as God. And, having loved man before He even made us, He wanted to give us the best, and that "best" included making us so that we could recognize how Great and Wonderful He is.

Something like this might sound like conceit. But is it conceit if it is the absolute truth? Since it is the truth, it is complete humility on the part of God.

So you see? God's "need" to have companionship doesn't really have to do with Him having to have people around Him. Rather, it has to do with His desire for the good of all people.

mmm, more questions popping up in my mind ...

it's a bit puzzling. for example, that his desire for the good of people imply the men's suffering.

how many innocent men suffer and die every day without reason?

even if someone reply "because of original sin", make suffer all the progeny of adam for his disobedience is too much even for the most vengeful man.

If I understand what you are saying, God doesn't desire for man to have pain. However, if it is a choice between no pain/no salvation, take the pain and the salvation.

The reason behind it all is difficult to understand. It is the method that God is using to correct a race (humans) who turned against Him... so that they can be saved. Why this method? Can't say all the reasons. But it is the best method, or God wouldn't have done it this way.

Death is the end for all of us. We need to remain faithful to God, expecting that He will raise us from the dead in the last day, because of the salvation Jesus did on the cross, and because of the resurrection Jesus did from the grave on the third day.

for the
however i have a deep respect for strong faith, and i don't want bother you too much  

Keep reading the Bible. Keep the faith strong.

for the sake of curiosity, which religion you belong?

Christian. Not Judaism, Islam, Shintoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Humanism, Scientology, etc.

[androz]

mmm, more questions popping up in my mind ...

it's a bit puzzling. for example, that his desire for the good of people imply the men's suffering.

how many innocent men suffer and die every day without reason?

even if someone reply "because of original sin", make suffer all the progeny of adam for his disobedience is too much even for the most vengeful man.

If I understand what you are saying, God doesn't desire for man to have pain. However, if it is a choice between no pain/no salvation, take the pain and the salvation.

if god really doesn't desire pain for men, he could simply do not make men suffer and give them salvation, he is omnipotent.

The reason behind it all is difficult to understand. It is the method that God is using to correct a race (humans) who turned against Him... so that they can be saved. Why this method? Can't say all the reasons. But it is the best method, or God wouldn't have done it this way.

But was god that create us in the way we are (prone to sin). What is the point to correct our behaviour since we were created in that way by him?

Furthermore he is omniscient, he knew in advance that adam would have committed the original sin ...


all of this sounds unfare to me.


you are saying that it is the best method for save the people, but it is not from my viewpoint (assuming that he is a good god that wants only men's good and not pain).